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Tikhon.of.Colorado
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« on: October 28, 2011, 05:42:13 PM »

I can remember as a little kid going to the non-denominational church and the pastor telling us not to eat pork because it's somewhere in the Bible.  Since then, I've never really eaten pork.

Are there any Church cannons about consuming pork?
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« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2011, 05:54:32 PM »

I can remember as a little kid going to the non-denominational church and the pastor telling us not to eat pork because it's somewhere in the Bible.  Since then, I've never really eaten pork.

Are there any Church cannons about consuming pork?
Acts 10:9-16 not good enough for you? Wink

To my knowledge, the Old Testament restrictions against eating pork were rules specifically governing ritual cleanliness and were intended to be applied only to the Jews. Just as St. Paul and the Jerusalem Council of Acts 15 recognized that circumcision was not necessary for the Gentiles, so also the restrictions against eating pigs' flesh. We are Gentiles, not Jews, therefore we are bound by no restriction against eating pork.
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« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2011, 05:55:39 PM »

I can remember as a little kid going to the non-denominational church and the pastor telling us not to eat pork because it's somewhere in the Bible.  Since then, I've never really eaten pork.

Are there any Church cannons about consuming pork?

Orthodox Christians don't abstain from pork in particular, or follow most of the other kosher dietary observances. If you ate any shrimp recently you broke some OT laws too. It's generally believed that the New Testament did away with the Old Testament dietary laws.
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« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2011, 05:59:06 PM »

.... and with the amount of pork Russians, Serbs and other Slavs eat, they'd be in BIG trouble by now if eating pork was not allowed.  laugh
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« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2011, 06:02:40 PM »

I had a feeling, thank you all! Smiley
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« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2011, 06:28:36 PM »

.... and with the amount of pork Russians, Serbs and other Slavs eat, they'd be in BIG trouble by now if eating pork was not allowed.  laugh
Yup. Nothing beats a good Christmas ham, bacon and eggs for breakfast, and a pork chop for dinner once in a while. Grin
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« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2011, 06:36:53 PM »

Ethiopian Orthodox do not eat pork, I think.
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« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2011, 06:39:04 PM »

Ethiopian Orthodox do not eat pork, I think.

And this would make sense given Jewish heritage.
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« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2011, 06:46:01 PM »

I can remember as a little kid going to the non-denominational church and the pastor telling us not to eat pork because it's somewhere in the Bible.  Since then, I've never really eaten pork.

Wow. Judaising heretic, much?
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« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2011, 08:47:28 PM »

I can remember as a little kid going to the non-denominational church and the pastor telling us not to eat pork because it's somewhere in the Bible.  Since then, I've never really eaten pork.

Are there any Church cannons about consuming pork?

Do really want to know what the Church Canons say on everything?

Trevor, you my friend need not worry about such minutia. You have a meek and loving spirit.

If anyone around here is doing the will of God, it is probably you.
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« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2011, 09:21:42 PM »

All them pic's are just nasty and gross  Sad I don't touch the stuff and don't plan on ever doing so. There is nothing wrong if you want to keep away from things I just would tell you not to tell others what to do or point out things in the bible or they will get mad   police
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« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2011, 09:41:35 PM »

I can remember as a little kid going to the non-denominational church and the pastor telling us not to eat pork because it's somewhere in the Bible.  Since then, I've never really eaten pork.

Are there any Church cannons about consuming pork?

Do really want to know what the Church Canons say on everything?

Trevor, you my friend need not worry about such minutia. You have a meek and loving spirit.

If anyone around here is doing the will of God, it is probably you.


Indeed.
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« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2011, 11:38:30 PM »

I can remember as a little kid going to the non-denominational church and the pastor telling us not to eat pork because it's somewhere in the Bible.  Since then, I've never really eaten pork.

Wow. Judaising heretic, much?

Please tell me you're not calling Trevor a heretic...
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« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2011, 11:40:54 PM »

I can remember as a little kid going to the non-denominational church and the pastor telling us not to eat pork because it's somewhere in the Bible.  Since then, I've never really eaten pork.

Wow. Judaising heretic, much?

Please tell me you're not calling Trevor a heretic...

If I had a dime...       I consider the people at my old Church very much heretical, so I guess I was one before being illuminated by the truth Smiley
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« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2011, 11:50:47 PM »

I can remember as a little kid going to the non-denominational church and the pastor telling us not to eat pork because it's somewhere in the Bible.  Since then, I've never really eaten pork.

Wow. Judaising heretic, much?

Please tell me you're not calling Trevor a heretic...

ISTM akimori was calling the non-denominational pastor a Judaising heretic, not Trevor.
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« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2011, 01:08:39 AM »

I can remember as a little kid going to the non-denominational church and the pastor telling us not to eat pork because it's somewhere in the Bible.  Since then, I've never really eaten pork.

Wow. Judaising heretic, much?

Just to clarify, you're speaking of the pastor and not Trevor, right?
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« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2011, 01:47:15 AM »

Ethiopian Orthodox do not eat pork, I think.


Correct. This is stems from our Church's Judaic roots, but it is not a matter of legalism for us. As for the argument from Acts that "all things are clean," please remember that this was an analogy used to demonstrate the fact that our salvation does not depend upon what we eat or don't eat. But it was not a magical occurrence that literally made all things "clean". Otherwise, pork would no longer contain trichinosis, and rats and roaches would no longer carry disease. It is also worth noting that when our Lord cast out the demons from the possessed boy, He sent them into a herd of swine. So I would personally recommend that you don't eat pork. But that's just my opinion.


Selam
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« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2011, 02:37:41 AM »

Sorry, guys. The longer I am with you all, the less careful I am with my words, trusting in your charity.

Yes, indeed, I was accusing Trevor's ex-pastor of the Judaising heresy (not Trevor!).
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« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2011, 03:01:32 AM »

Don't also Coptic Christians retain the prohibition against eating pork?
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« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2011, 06:05:17 AM »

As for the argument from Acts that "all things are clean," please remember that this was an analogy used to demonstrate the fact that our salvation does not depend upon what we eat or don't eat. But it was not a magical occurrence that literally made all things "clean".

Our salvation does not depend upon not eating pork but pork is still somehow unclean?
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« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2011, 08:01:54 AM »

Pork is still unhealthy, and I would say so is eating much red meat in general. What about some vegetables, guys? That doesn't mean everyone has to be vegetarian, but eating a pound of meat a day really isn't normal...

Is pork the only unhealthy meat? What about rabbit?

I also wonder if Ethiopian Christians abstain only from pork or from every animal listed as unclean in the Torah. 
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« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2011, 12:23:05 PM »

Ethiopian Orthodox do not eat pork, I think.


Correct. This is stems from our Church's Judaic roots, but it is not a matter of legalism for us. As for the argument from Acts that "all things are clean," please remember that this was an analogy used to demonstrate the fact that our salvation does not depend upon what we eat or don't eat. But it was not a magical occurrence that literally made all things "clean". Otherwise, pork would no longer contain trichinosis, and rats and roaches would no longer carry disease. It is also worth noting that when our Lord cast out the demons from the possessed boy, He sent them into a herd of swine. So I would personally recommend that you don't eat pork. But that's just my opinion.


Selam


As others have pointed out, it's part of the tradition of the gentile cultures in the Church to eat pork.
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« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2011, 12:33:38 PM »

Don't also Coptic Christians retain the prohibition against eating pork?
I am a Copt and I have never been told that we were restricted from eating pork. However, being that Egypt is a mostly Muslim country, Copts in their homeland usually don't eat pork (regularly, anyway), but it is out of habit and not prohibition. Plus, the pigs were all killed, unfortunately.
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« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2011, 12:38:44 PM »

However, being that Egypt is a mostly Muslim country, Copts in their homeland usually don't eat pork, but it is out of habit and not prohibition.
It is because the government had all of the pigs killed.

As others have pointed out, it's part of the tradition of the gentile cultures in the Church to eat pork.
Not all of them.
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« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2011, 12:41:47 PM »

However, being that Egypt is a mostly Muslim country, Copts in their homeland usually don't eat pork, but it is out of habit and not prohibition.
It is because the government had all of the pigs killed.
Of course I realize that. But even prior to that unfortunate event I do not think you would see too many Copts eat pork. My family has never been in the habit of doing so, at least.
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« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2011, 12:52:47 PM »

However, being that Egypt is a mostly Muslim country, Copts in their homeland usually don't eat pork, but it is out of habit and not prohibition.
It is because the government had all of the pigs killed.
Of course I realize that. But even prior to that unfortunate event I do not think you would see too many Copts eat pork. My family has never been in the habit of doing so, at least.

Do you eat bacon?
Yes, yummy! Smiley

What I am trying to say is that in, let's say, Egypt (prior to the mass-slaughter of the pigs) Copts weren't really in the habit of eating pork. And when I said "my family", I meant my family while they lived in Egypt.
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« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2011, 12:55:46 PM »

I wonder why that is. I guess it became socially taboo when Islam took over?

Also, does anyone know if the Indian Orthodox eat pork or beef?
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« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2011, 01:02:12 PM »

I wonder why that is. I guess it became socially taboo when Islam took over?
I do not think it is a matter of taboo, or anything like that. But Copts are only about 10% of the Egyptian population, and when 90% of the country is prohibited from eating pork you just wouldn't have the opportunity to eat it, really.

However, there probably was it least some pork industry in Egypt prior to the pig cull, I just don't think it was really mainstream practice to eat pork, even among Copts, from what I can tell.
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« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2011, 01:05:31 PM »

I don't eat pork unless I'm a guest somewhere and it's what's for dinner. I really don't like the taste. Too salty and heavy. Same with bacon. (Though if you have bacon for dinner, I suppose saltiness is the least of your problems.)

I too have never heard of the Copts being disallowed from eating pork, but just the same our Agape meal is always chicken and some sort of salad. I don't think they'd appreciate that being messed with.

And Ethiopians do vegetables, chicken, and lamb so well that who in their right mind would miss pork?!
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« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2011, 02:58:51 PM »

Who's suggesting that anyone is going to eat nothing but pork? This is a thread about pork, not about vegetables. That means the main--if not only--subject of discussion will be the eating of pork. I'm sure most of us here also eat vegetables, but we're not discussing that here, since it's not germane to the discussion about the eating of pork.

With all due respect, but I think in an Orthodox discussion about eating pork, we should also discuss whether eating pork is "useful", as the apostle said. And my point simply was that it is preferrable to folloe a diet with no, or at least with little pork.

Another aspect should be whether it is desirable to kill animals, including pigs, for food. Clearly, this is not forbidden, but it is not an ideal either. EO monastics completely abtain from meat, for example. So if anyone here wants to practice "lay monasticism", he or she might consider doing the same.
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« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2011, 05:03:56 PM »

Who's suggesting that anyone is going to eat nothing but pork? This is a thread about pork, not about vegetables. That means the main--if not only--subject of discussion will be the eating of pork. I'm sure most of us here also eat vegetables, but we're not discussing that here, since it's not germane to the discussion about the eating of pork.

With all due respect, but I think in an Orthodox discussion about eating pork, we should also discuss whether eating pork is "useful", as the apostle said. And my point simply was that it is preferrable to folloe a diet with no, or at least with little pork.

Another aspect should be whether it is desirable to kill animals, including pigs, for food. Clearly, this is not forbidden, but it is not an ideal either. EO monastics completely abtain from meat, for example. So if anyone here wants to practice "lay monasticism", he or she might consider doing the same.


Good points. Avoiding legalism does not mean that we should become licentious. We have a Christian responsibility to consider the physical, psychological, environmental, and humanitarian ramifications of what we eat.


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« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2011, 05:30:10 PM »

copts are allowed to eat pork. just it's never been very popular, it's a bit like eating cheap sausages when u could have a nice steak instead, it was never trendy.
and in egypt, the government used the swine flu scare to kill lots of pigs. the Christians that were living off that trade were poor people whose pigs lived on eating garbage, so there were people in government happy to put them out of business.
it got rid of some pigs and hurt the Christians at the same time, so it was an efficient way to carry out government business.

as for chicken, if u eat it, u should insist on free-range chicken, or at least chicken that has plenty of room to move about the barn. it's keeping chickens in ridiculously overcrowded conditions that makes them aggressive, they are not naturally like that.
actually the same applies to humans (anyone been to london/paris/any other big city?!)  Wink

ethiopians and eritreans don't eat pork, whatever their religion (unless they are doing it secretly when granny is not looking). we had ham in my previous coptic church once, and my teenage friend was arguing with his mum about eating it. she didn't let him.
personally, i do eat meat, but i prefer some nice beans...
 Wink
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« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2011, 10:06:09 PM »

But how does any of the last several posts address the subject of the OP?
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« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2011, 10:10:43 PM »

But how does any of the last several posts address the subject of the OP?

It is a tangent where people seemed to being enjoying themselves for the rare time around here without arguing and it started in relation to eating pork.

And shouldn't Christians spend more time getting along and getting know to each other as people and not just arguments?

So the first sentence covers the pork part, and the latter the Christian part.

Where is the harm?

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« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2011, 10:13:45 PM »

Also, does anyone know if the Indian Orthodox eat pork or beef?
Good question!
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« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2011, 07:30:14 AM »

I imagine that crack cocaine is quite good too, and since "all things are clean" then why not indulge now and then? Sure, some people become addicted, but many people apparently smoke crack in moderation. Let's not be "fundies" here. And why abstain simply because it is illegal? I mean, that's just some fundamentalist law enacted by a puritanical society that we Orthodox Christians know better than to enslave ourselves to. I say, "Throw some ribs on the grill and light up the crack pipe!"


(For those who may not understand, please know that my comments are purely "tongue in cheek.")


Selam
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« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2011, 12:20:12 PM »

I imagine that crack cocaine is quite good too, and since "all things are clean" then why not indulge now and then? Sure, some people become addicted, but many people apparently smoke crack in moderation. Let's not be "fundies" here. And why abstain simply because it is illegal? I mean, that's just some fundamentalist law enacted by a puritanical society that we Orthodox Christians know better than to enslave ourselves to. I say, "Throw some ribs on the grill and light up the crack pipe!"


(For those who may not understand, please know that my comments are purely "tongue in cheek.")


Selam
Even for comments that are purely tongue-in-cheek, I still find it disturbing to the extreme that you would equate the eating of pork with the smoking of crack.
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« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2011, 12:22:06 PM »

I imagine that crack cocaine is quite good too, and since "all things are clean" then why not indulge now and then? Sure, some people become addicted, but many people apparently smoke crack in moderation. Let's not be "fundies" here. And why abstain simply because it is illegal? I mean, that's just some fundamentalist law enacted by a puritanical society that we Orthodox Christians know better than to enslave ourselves to. I say, "Throw some ribs on the grill and light up the crack pipe!"


(For those who may not understand, please know that my comments are purely "tongue in cheek.")


Selam
Even for comments that are purely tongue-in-cheek, I still find it disturbing to the extreme that you would equate the eating of pork with the smoking of crack.

I agree. The entire post seems to have been written in poor taste.
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« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2011, 12:23:13 PM »

I imagine that crack cocaine is quite good too, and since "all things are clean" then why not indulge now and then? Sure, some people become addicted, but many people apparently smoke crack in moderation. Let's not be "fundies" here. And why abstain simply because it is illegal? I mean, that's just some fundamentalist law enacted by a puritanical society that we Orthodox Christians know better than to enslave ourselves to. I say, "Throw some ribs on the grill and light up the crack pipe!"


(For those who may not understand, please know that my comments are purely "tongue in cheek.")


Selam
Even for comments that are purely tongue-in-cheek, I still find it disturbing to the extreme that you would equate the eating of pork with the smoking of crack.

I agree. The entire post seems to have been written in poor taste.

pun intended?
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« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2011, 12:32:44 PM »

But how does any of the last several posts address the subject of the OP?

It is a tangent
Which means it's off topic.
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« Reply #40 on: October 31, 2011, 01:19:28 PM »

Mabsoota,

I have never met a Coptic Vegetarian before. You're giving the devil nothing to tempt you with during the fasts!
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« Reply #41 on: October 31, 2011, 02:20:11 PM »

Posts not suitable to this section were moved to Other Topics.
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« Reply #42 on: October 31, 2011, 08:21:32 PM »

I imagine that crack cocaine is quite good too, and since "all things are clean" then why not indulge now and then? Sure, some people become addicted, but many people apparently smoke crack in moderation. Let's not be "fundies" here. And why abstain simply because it is illegal? I mean, that's just some fundamentalist law enacted by a puritanical society that we Orthodox Christians know better than to enslave ourselves to. I say, "Throw some ribs on the grill and light up the crack pipe!"


(For those who may not understand, please know that my comments are purely "tongue in cheek.")


Selam
Even for comments that are purely tongue-in-cheek, I still find it disturbing to the extreme that you would equate the eating of pork with the smoking of crack.


It's called using an extreme example to make a point. So first, lighten up  my friend; and second, deal with the argument. Of course, I don't really care whether or not other people eat pork. Like I said earlier, it's not a matter of legalism for us.


Selam
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« Reply #43 on: October 31, 2011, 08:25:04 PM »

Mabsoota,

I have never met a Coptic Vegetarian before. You're giving the devil nothing to tempt you with during the fasts!

...Gumdrops?  Wink
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« Reply #44 on: October 31, 2011, 08:31:40 PM »

I imagine that crack cocaine is quite good too, and since "all things are clean" then why not indulge now and then? Sure, some people become addicted, but many people apparently smoke crack in moderation. Let's not be "fundies" here. And why abstain simply because it is illegal? I mean, that's just some fundamentalist law enacted by a puritanical society that we Orthodox Christians know better than to enslave ourselves to. I say, "Throw some ribs on the grill and light up the crack pipe!"


(For those who may not understand, please know that my comments are purely "tongue in cheek.")


Selam
Even for comments that are purely tongue-in-cheek, I still find it disturbing to the extreme that you would equate the eating of pork with the smoking of crack.


It's called using an extreme example to make a point. So first, lighten up  my friend; and second, deal with the argument. Of course, I don't really care whether or not other people eat pork. Like I said earlier, it's not a matter of legalism for us.


Selam


In this case, it's a bad example, because Acts 10 clearly shows that " all kinds of four-footed animals" are clean to eat. 
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