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Author Topic: Muslims Want Catholic School to Provide Room Without Crosses  (Read 7708 times) Average Rating: 0
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sainthieu
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« on: October 27, 2011, 01:12:12 AM »

Yeah, right.

"Catholic University has been accused of violating the human rights of Muslim students by not allowing them to form a Muslim student group and by not providing them rooms without Christian symbols for their daily prayers, according to a complaint filed with the Washington, D.C. Office of Human Rights.

The 60-page complaint said Muslim students “must perform their prayers surrounded by symbols of Catholicism – e.g., a wooden crucifix, paintings of Jesus, pictures of priests and theologians which many Muslim students find inappropriate.”"


I have a solution for them: don't attend a Christian school.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 01:12:39 AM by sainthieu » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2011, 01:36:22 AM »

i thought they respected Jesus and the fact that he died on the cross?
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« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2011, 01:41:04 AM »

i thought they respected Jesus and the fact that he died on the cross?

They say he never died on the cross.
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« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2011, 01:43:21 AM »

I have a solution for them: don't attend a Christian school.
QFT!

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« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2011, 01:44:10 AM »

i thought they respected Jesus and the fact that he died on the cross?

They say he never died on the cross.
One of the craziest theories ever purported.

Don't they also say he moved the rock with his own hands?
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« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2011, 01:44:57 AM »

i thought they respected Jesus and the fact that he died on the cross?

They say he never died on the cross.

oops ya forgot about that. Well they could just believe he is swooning there instead...
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« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2011, 02:24:51 AM »

Looks like the horse might have already bolted.
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« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2011, 04:32:28 AM »


One of the craziest theories ever purported.

Don't they also say he moved the rock with his own hands?

Ahmadiyya sect propagates that claim. Traditional and mainstream Islamic teaching is that Jesus was neither crucified nor killed.
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« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2011, 04:35:21 AM »


oops ya forgot about that. Well they could just believe he is swooning there instead...

Mainstream and traditionally most common Islamic theory is that of Jesus' replacement with Judas Iscariot. This view is also essential to the passion narrative in the medieval Gospel of Barnabas.
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« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2011, 06:10:55 AM »

Completely outraged!!! Christians aren't allowed to even study at Alazhar university and that's a state-funded university, unlike the PRIVATE catholic schools and universities. when are westerners going to understand the double standards, hypocrisy and taqqiyah of Islam?
who screams about human rights when churches get burnt?
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« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2011, 09:06:08 AM »

Christians aren't allowed to even study at Alazhar university and that's a state-funded university, unlike the PRIVATE catholic schools and universities. when are westerners going to understand the double standards, hypocrisy and taqqiyah of Islam?

So if Muslims discriminate Christians, Christians should discriminate Muslims?
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« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2011, 09:16:15 AM »

How is it discrimination to say 'this is a Christian school'?

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« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2011, 09:25:32 AM »

How is it discrimination to say 'this is a Christian school'?



I didn't mean that. It would be foolish to remove the crosses just because Muslims are demanding it. I understood that Pikhristos Aftonf was saying that since Christians aren't allowed in Muslim schools Christians shouldn't allow Muslims in Christian schools. That would be discrimination.

It could be though that I misunderstood what he/she was saying.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 09:26:05 AM by Alpo » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2011, 09:33:04 AM »

The crosses on the wall, wahhh, whatever. I've never been to Catholic (got accepted, but didn't want to live IN DC), but are there really religious symbols in every room?

Anyway, they chose to go there.

Not sure how I feel about them being prevented from starting a campus group, though. It's pretty common knowledge that a lot of students attending religious universities aren't all necessarily of the same religion. Plus, Catholic has allowed a Jewish student association to form, so preventing the Muslims from doing that is just weird. They should either prevent any other religious group from starting up a student group or leave that option on the table.
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« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2011, 09:55:32 AM »

Well, as the worm turns.  This is a perfect example of incrementalism.   The nose of the camel inside the tent?  If one is an adult and that adult applies to a Mormon school or a Catholic school that ADULT should understand that it may not comport with his or her personal religious slant.   I suspect that these Muslims have another adgenda ie to cause trouble and to somehow lessen the Catholicity of that school.   Call me paranoid but I see the trends of this religion and it aint pretty.   First it will be the crosses, then prayer time, then special bathrooms for washing their feet, and so on and so on.   

Folks this is what they do............They are at least honest in their intent on disrupting the norm for their sake.  We can show all the love and tolerance in the world for this religion and it will be just thrown aside and ignored.   Look at Egypt today and the problems the Copts are having.   In fact, look at any middle east country that has a Christian minority. 
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« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2011, 10:08:13 AM »

I have a solution for them: don't attend a Christian school.
QFT!

I have a phone number they can call: 1-800-WAAAAAA Roll Eyes

 Cheesy
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« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2011, 10:08:24 AM »

Christians aren't allowed to even study at Alazhar university and that's a state-funded university, unlike the PRIVATE catholic schools and universities. when are westerners going to understand the double standards, hypocrisy and taqqiyah of Islam?

So if Muslims discriminate Christians, Christians should discriminate Muslims?
I don't know that anyone has suggested that, but it would be nice if they were told to clean-up the discrimination and oppression in their part of the world before they bewail the injustice of having to gaze upon a crucifix while attending a Christian University in ours.
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« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2011, 10:24:25 AM »

Christians aren't allowed to even study at Alazhar university and that's a state-funded university, unlike the PRIVATE catholic schools and universities. when are westerners going to understand the double standards, hypocrisy and taqqiyah of Islam?

So if Muslims discriminate Christians, Christians should discriminate Muslims?
I don't know that anyone has suggested that, but it would be nice if they were told to clean-up the discrimination and oppression in their part of the world before they bewail the injustice of having to gaze upon a crucifix while attending a Christian University in ours.

These Muslims don't have any more control over what you call "their part of the world" than you have over the EP or MP.
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« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2011, 10:26:52 AM »

which many Muslim students find inappropriate.”"

Are there "many" Muslim students at Catholic University?

I have a solution for them. http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=mosques+near+%22Catholic+University%22+Washington+DC
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 10:28:33 AM by bogdan » Logged
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« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2011, 10:32:24 AM »

Christians aren't allowed to even study at Alazhar university and that's a state-funded university, unlike the PRIVATE catholic schools and universities. when are westerners going to understand the double standards, hypocrisy and taqqiyah of Islam?

So if Muslims discriminate Christians, Christians should discriminate Muslims?
not at all, i am merely showing how two-faced Islam is! In Egypt, students must quote the Qur'an in Arabic exams (i got penalized for not doing that- what a rebel huh!)
Christians aren't allowed to study at a state-funded University! not a private catholic school, No a state University. i don't kid when i say that Christian girls are murdered because they refuse to wear the hijab at PUBLIC schools in Egypt!
its hypocritical to demand one thing and practice the other, and i can't think of a better case of hypocrisy than this.
I am not saying we shouldn't allow Muslims in Christian schools, i am just saying that if they choose to enroll in a Christian school, they have to follow the rules, even if that includes crosses in every square inch of every wall!
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« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2011, 10:41:46 AM »

What if it was the other was around.  If a group of Christians were attending a school run by a Muslim organization, would it be wrong for them to want to have a prayer group in a room without Muslim symbols?

-   They are talking about the USA, not a foreign place.
-   They are not asking the Muslim symbols be but up instead, they just want a place without any symbols.

I do not think that the school should be forced to give these students what they want; I just think it is not an unreasonable request.
 (I assume that the students live on campus)

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« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2011, 10:44:26 AM »

it is an unreasonable demand! they have choices of schools, there is no reason to go to a catholic school, and once you are there you must subscribe to the norm! also a school is for learning not prayer, that's what churches and mosques are for!
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« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2011, 10:49:59 AM »

The sophomoric argument, "Because X group of Muslims/Muslim countries do this, we should do it too," is insane. If we are placing our democracy, values, ideals, economic system above every other country, WHY would we stoop down to that level?

Unless you all want to live in a theocracy or a really corrupt monarchy/"democracy" in the Middle East, then I apologize for my misunderstanding.

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« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2011, 10:51:21 AM »

The West, that's us is always too lenient. it is how people are always allowed to trash Christianity with no response, whilst on the otherhand, a foul depiction of Muhammad and the entire Arab world boycotts Sweden. we can't deal with ignorance by appeasement, didn't work with Hitler and not going to work with Islam!
again, there is an established institution, they can't just join it to change it, they have the choice to go to a school that supports their freedom to worship.
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« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2011, 10:53:48 AM »

The sophomoric argument, "Because X group of Muslims/Muslim countries do this, we should do it too," is insane. If we are placing our democracy, values, ideals, economic system above every other country, WHY would we stoop down to that level?

Unless you all want to live in a theocracy or a really corrupt monarchy/"democracy" in the Middle East, then I apologize for my misunderstanding.


sorry to burst your bubble, but its not a certain group of Muslims. Islam encourages Muslims in power to enslave and overpower people of other religions, it is not a religion, but a political cult! i am not saying all muslims are bad, just the ones that actually follow their religion to its fullness!
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« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2011, 12:03:04 PM »

And they probably want to replace the Crosses with their own pagan symbols.  Well, the only crescent they are getting from me is a full moon.
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« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2011, 12:17:59 PM »


I have a solution for them: don't attend a Christian school.

Actually, I think it should read  "don't attend a Catholic school"(that actually believes what it preaches)!  There are plenty of Christian schools out there where you would never be able to detect a "Christian" identity.
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« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2011, 12:40:50 PM »

And they probably want to replace the Crosses with their own pagan symbols.  Well, the only crescent they are getting from me is a full moon.

 laugh
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« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2011, 01:06:36 PM »

Tell them to put up or shut up!
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« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2011, 01:09:34 PM »

The West, that's us is always too lenient. it is how people are always allowed to trash Christianity with no response, whilst on the otherhand, a foul depiction of Muhammad and the entire Arab world boycotts Sweden. we can't deal with ignorance by appeasement, didn't work with Hitler and not going to work with Islam!
again, there is an established institution, they can't just join it to change it, they have the choice to go to a school that supports their freedom to worship.

If you are thinking about the Muhammed drawings, I am sad to say that it was Denmark. I still can't believe that we had to go through all that trouble because of a some drawings. Couldn't they just have burned our flag and then leave it at that?
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« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2011, 01:12:16 PM »

What if it was the other was around.  If a group of Christians were attending a school run by a Muslim organization, would it be wrong for them to want to have a prayer group in a room without Muslim symbols?

-   They are talking about the USA, not a foreign place.
-   They are not asking the Muslim symbols be but up instead, they just want a place without any symbols.

I do not think that the school should be forced to give these students what they want; I just think it is not an unreasonable request.
 (I assume that the students live on campus)



I would not have a problem praying in a room full of Muslim symbols. "Let God arise and let his enemies be scattered..." The only ones that should be upset by Christian prayer in a Muslim place are the demons.
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« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2011, 08:00:13 PM »

Quote
If you are thinking about the Muhammad drawings, I am sad to say that it was Denmark. I still can't believe that we had to go through all that trouble because of a some drawings. Couldn't they just have burned our flag and then leave it at that?

yes my apologies it as Denmark, the point is: its not Muslims that are violent but Islam. Islam specifically states that Muslims should lie about their faith to make it sound more peaceful and appealing if they are a minority, but once they are a majority its their divinely appointed right to destroy and oppress other religions. its not isolated X groups of Muslims, Its ALL Muslims that practice their religion properly.

Quote
I would not have a problem praying in a room full of Muslim symbols. "Let God arise and let his enemies be scattered..." The only ones that should be upset by Christian prayer in a Muslim place are the demons.
there is no possible better way to express this!!! thank you so much! the Imams admit it! the crosses atop the churches were asked to be removed because it hurts us!, when they weren't removed the church was burnt! only demons should be worried about the cleansing of the cross!
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« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2011, 08:22:22 PM »

There is another way of looking at all this. I'm supposing that the Muslim students are paying for the privilege of attending this school? It might have been a courtesy in the first place to provide an uncrossed room for their private prayers. If you take folks' money, some catering to their needs might be expected in reciprocation. If they are they receiving eduction via charity, that might be different. Just a thought!
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« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2011, 08:26:42 PM »

There is another way of looking at all this. I'm supposing that the Muslim students are paying for the privilege of attending this school? It might have been a courtesy in the first place to provide an uncrossed room for their private prayers. If you take folks' money, some catering to their needs might be expected in reciprocation. If they are they receiving eduction via charity, that might be different. Just a thought!

This is quite sensible and charitable, but a charge of failing to generously cater to the needs of paying customers is a far cry from the accusation of "violation of human rights".
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« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2011, 08:32:24 PM »

There is another way of looking at all this. I'm supposing that the Muslim students are paying for the privilege of attending this school? It might have been a courtesy in the first place to provide an uncrossed room for their private prayers. If you take folks' money, some catering to their needs might be expected in reciprocation. If they are they receiving eduction via charity, that might be different. Just a thought!

This is quite sensible and charitable, but a charge of failing to generously cater to the needs of paying customers is a far cry from the accusation of "violation of human rights".

Of course. But things will always blow up out of all proportion. That's why we keep killing each other.
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« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2011, 09:27:16 PM »

I have a solution for them: don't attend a Christian school.
QFT!

I have a phone number they can call: 1-800-WAAAAAA Roll Eyes

Seriously. Somebody call the waaaahmbulance to take these kids to the waaaahspital.

All Christian schools should be Islam-free zones outside of comparative religion classes that make it clear that Islam is false. What a world we live in!
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« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2011, 09:44:47 PM »

WHY the double standards? are christians allowed to go to an Islamic school? are christians allowed to eat pork at an islamic school? are christians allowed to eat during ramadan at islamic schools?
if you can answer yes to all the above, then muslims can have their cross-free room!
i insist, islam is double-faced one for the west and one in their own arab countries! Chrisitians are kiled for not wearing hijab, they are jailed for not fasting during ramadan, Qur'an encourages this! some would say : this is not representative of islam, just a small portion of muslims- to you i say "the qur'an teaches muslims that christians are the " children and grandchildren of monkeys and pigs" and are to be "killed wherever you might see them", are these the principles we want at catholic schools?"
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« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2011, 09:51:12 PM »

Pikhristos Aftonf: The Roman Catholic Church specifically preaches a form of "popular monotheism" as relates to Islam via their Catechism (CCC 841), so they are far kinder to Islam than the other way around.
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« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2011, 09:55:46 PM »

yes, i am unfortunately aware, the largest christian body is allowing the devil as a religion, Lord have Mercy!
the west needs to do more! Islam is phasing Christianity out as the dominant religion in Europe, the Americas are the only safe-havens of Christianity at the moment...
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« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2011, 10:10:34 PM »

I wouldn't count on the Roman Catholic Church to do anything positive about that, unfortunately. I know plenty of Maronites, Melkites, and other Eastern Catholics who know better, but they obviously don't call the shots, unfortunately.

The best bet is widespread Orthodox evangelism in the West, of course. Wink
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« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2011, 10:21:51 PM »

i completely agree, and i have my own theory behind the reasons:
the melkites, Maronites, etc as well as the orthodox such as the copts and syriacs all live in the middle east where they are exposed to the truth of Islam, so when they migrate to a western country they can voice their criticism of the devillish cult! European immigrants on the other hand presuppose that all humans have basic human decency and moral code, and assume that muslims don't have a sinister agenda, that's where the problems arise!
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« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2011, 10:30:20 PM »

What if it was the other was around.  If a group of Christians were attending a school run by a Muslim organization, would it be wrong for them to want to have a prayer group in a room without Muslim symbols?

-   They are talking about the USA, not a foreign place.
-   They are not asking the Muslim symbols be but up instead, they just want a place without any symbols.

I do not think that the school should be forced to give these students what they want; I just think it is not an unreasonable request.
 (I assume that the students live on campus)



I would not have a problem praying in a room full of Muslim symbols. "Let God arise and let his enemies be scattered..." The only ones that should be upset by Christian prayer in a Muslim place are the demons.

indeed!!! reminds me of this old monk back in Ethio that was also the bell ringer that calls for the morning prayer, and  a few miles from St. Michael Church there is a mosque, and the muzzeyen says ahzzan nearly at the same time, so the monk always tries to be the first one to ring the bell and always says " Let God Arise and Let His enemies be scattered!" and also adds grinning while the azzan is heard a few minutes later,' well if you have to echo it, why not come over and do it the right way with us'  Grin
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« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2011, 10:39:03 PM »

I have a solution for them: don't attend a Christian school.
QFT!

I have a phone number they can call: 1-800-WAAAAAA Roll Eyes

Seriously. Somebody call the waaaahmbulance to take these kids to the waaaahspital.

All Christian schools should be Islam-free zones outside of comparative religion classes that make it clear that Islam is false. What a world we live in!

AMEN!!!
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« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2011, 10:41:30 PM »

Pikhristos Aftonf:

In addition to what you wrote, a lot of Europeans and Americans don't speak Arabic, so they don't know any better and sometimes assume that the bad things the Middle Eastern Christians tell them about Islam are sour grapes or just blind sectarianism or whatever.

Islam knows how to manipulate things to get good PR for itself, and lots of westerners (I feel like this is particularly true of Americans, but maybe others too) like to root for the "underdog", so when their Muslim "friends" talk about the nakba or Sabra and Shatila or whatever, the Westerners think "Oh, poor Muslims! They are so oppressed!" Their Muslim friends don't tell them about the robberies, forced taxes and other intimidation that the Christian communities around Tel al Zaatar were subjected to before that which led to so much tension and calls for the camp to be closed, and much less about the Damour massacre in 1976 that killed 684 civilians at the hands of the PLO and the LNM. Damour was a Christian town, so of course it never comes up...

So, yes...ignorance and manipulation of the sympathies of the well-meaning but naive westerners. Nobody listens to the Middle Eastern Christians, nobody in the West defends their own values or religion, and so Islam continues to grow unabated. Lord have mercy...
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« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2011, 10:57:53 PM »

this world is not ours! there are no people luckier than the  Christians of the middle-east: crowns of martyrdom, crowns of persecution!
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« Reply #45 on: October 27, 2011, 10:59:28 PM »

Of course, of course. My only point is ignorance is not bliss, and people should still care about other people in the world, even if we're only here for a little while.
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« Reply #46 on: October 27, 2011, 11:01:53 PM »

+1
the west should wake up from its fantastical delusion !
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« Reply #47 on: October 27, 2011, 11:07:29 PM »

Well, as the worm turns.  This is a perfect example of incrementalism.   The nose of the camel inside the tent?  If one is an adult and that adult applies to a Mormon school or a Catholic school that ADULT should understand that it may not comport with his or her personal religious slant.   I suspect that these Muslims have another adgenda ie to cause trouble and to somehow lessen the Catholicity of that school.   Call me paranoid but I see the trends of this religion and it aint pretty.   First it will be the crosses, then prayer time, then special bathrooms for washing their feet, and so on and so on.   

Folks this is what they do............They are at least honest in their intent on disrupting the norm for their sake.  We can show all the love and tolerance in the world for this religion and it will be just thrown aside and ignored.   Look at Egypt today and the problems the Copts are having.   In fact, look at any middle east country that has a Christian minority. 

you Said It my brother! that's a time proven and even now present reality! the wanna be moderate rant  of some that Islam is peace and brotherhood  and tolerance bla bla bla makes me want to retch.
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« Reply #48 on: October 27, 2011, 11:17:49 PM »

Pikhristos Aftonf:

In addition to what you wrote, a lot of Europeans and Americans don't speak Arabic, so they don't know any better and sometimes assume that the bad things the Middle Eastern Christians tell them about Islam are sour grapes or just blind sectarianism or whatever.

Islam knows how to manipulate things to get good PR for itself, and lots of westerners (I feel like this is particularly true of Americans, but maybe others too) like to root for the "underdog", so when their Muslim "friends" talk about the nakba or Sabra and Shatila or whatever, the Westerners think "Oh, poor Muslims! They are so oppressed!" Their Muslim friends don't tell them about the robberies, forced taxes and other intimidation that the Christian communities around Tel al Zaatar were subjected to before that which led to so much tension and calls for the camp to be closed, and much less about the Damour massacre in 1976 that killed 684 civilians at the hands of the PLO and the LNM. Damour was a Christian town, so of course it never comes up...

So, yes...ignorance and manipulation of the sympathies of the well-meaning but naive westerners. Nobody listens to the Middle Eastern Christians, nobody in the West defends their own values or religion, and so Islam continues to grow unabated. Lord have mercy...

yes even now it gathers force, and i am not sure if Christians are in any better position than they were in before to deal with it today. yes may the Lord have mercy on us. Islam is crafty they even stage the 'desecration' of what they call holy ,when necessary to use it as a pretext to agitate their faithful to do 'the job of the Muslim faithful'. oh there is great union in this movement most of all there is a full and clear understanding of what is Muslim and what is not. and it does not bode well for what is not Muslim in a Muslim world.
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« Reply #49 on: October 28, 2011, 12:23:11 AM »

The sophomoric argument, "Because X group of Muslims/Muslim countries do this, we should do it too," is insane. If we are placing our democracy, values, ideals, economic system above every other country, WHY would we stoop down to that level?

Unless you all want to live in a theocracy or a really corrupt monarchy/"democracy" in the Middle East, then I apologize for my misunderstanding.


sorry to burst your bubble, but its not a certain group of Muslims. Islam encourages Muslims in power to enslave and overpower people of other religions, it is not a religion, but a political cult! i am not saying all muslims are bad, just the ones that actually follow their religion to its fullness!

Fully agree. This is the start of long term infiltration and islamisation by stealth. High birth rates are another weapon they use.

Only by limiting immigration, promoting assimilation into the dominant culture (not multicultarlism) and actively introducing anti-Islamic laws, will the west survive.

Wake up you sheep, the wolves are at the door!!!
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« Reply #50 on: October 28, 2011, 12:38:36 AM »

in Britain, 50% of those under 10 years old are muslim, THAT  is scary!
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« Reply #51 on: October 28, 2011, 12:48:00 AM »

The sophomoric argument, "Because X group of Muslims/Muslim countries do this, we should do it too," is insane. If we are placing our democracy, values, ideals, economic system above every other country, WHY would we stoop down to that level?

Unless you all want to live in a theocracy or a really corrupt monarchy/"democracy" in the Middle East, then I apologize for my misunderstanding.


sorry to burst your bubble, but its not a certain group of Muslims. Islam encourages Muslims in power to enslave and overpower people of other religions, it is not a religion, but a political cult! i am not saying all muslims are bad, just the ones that actually follow their religion to its fullness!

Fully agree. This is the start of long term infiltration and islamisation by stealth. High birth rates are another weapon they use.

Only by limiting immigration, promoting assimilation into the dominant culture (not multicultarlism) and actively introducing anti-Islamic laws, will the west survive.

Wake up you sheep, the wolves are at the door!!!
Try evangelizing, to the self and to others.
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« Reply #52 on: October 28, 2011, 12:57:39 AM »

Agreed, Isa. Evangelism will crush Islam, because as the Islamic scriptures put it, "truth stands clear from error". Against the truth, Islam has no chance. As was likewise said to come long ago from the mouth of a pious Muslim (one surely much more learned than Muhammad), "were it not for the fear of the government and of shame before men, many would become Christians."

Regarding the "some muslims" idea: Acquaintances I have known who have converted from Islam to Orthodoxy and from Islam to Catholicism have told me that it is pointless to look at 'some' Muslims are doing now, either good or bad. What really matters for pious Muslims, according to these people who have lived in Islam, is actually something similar to what we might look to in Christianity: How did the first generations of adherents view the religion, especially the parts/passages that now seem contentious (i.e., the ones that Muslims try to explain away in order to make us believe that Islam means "peace")? When you look at that, you see that the early Muslims understood these commands to slay polytheists, to fight the people until "all religion is for Allah" (i.e., until everyone is Muslim), etc. exactly as they appear to be written -- as commands. And when Muhammad apparently said (recorded in one of the collections of "hadeeth") that whoever changes his religion should be killed, they took that literally, too. They still do.

The philosophizing or de-materializing of these problematic verses and ideas didn't come around until much, much later. These are modern "neo-Muslim" ideas that are foreign to the history and major personalities of Islam. The Islamic "fatuhat" were offensive wars. Islam is still waging these offensive wars against us, though most have learned to not be quite so explicit about it as bin Laden was...at least not right now.
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« Reply #53 on: October 28, 2011, 03:13:23 AM »

Why don't the Muslim students just get a nearby mosque to let them meet there, and they can call themselves the Muslim Students Association of Catholic University?  They could also prayer at that same mosque.

Honestly though, this is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.  If you have so many issues with Christian symbols, and images of priests and theologians (who could very well be faculty at Catholic), then why would you go to a school named CATHOLIC University of America?
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« Reply #54 on: October 28, 2011, 03:13:24 AM »

WHY the double standards? are christians allowed to go to an Islamic school? are christians allowed to eat pork at an islamic school? are christians allowed to eat during ramadan at islamic schools?
if you can answer yes to all the above, then muslims can have their cross-free room!
i insist, islam is double-faced one for the west and one in their own arab countries! Chrisitians are kiled for not wearing hijab, they are jailed for not fasting during ramadan, Qur'an encourages this! some would say : this is not representative of islam, just a small portion of muslims- to you i say "the qur'an teaches muslims that christians are the " children and grandchildren of monkeys and pigs" and are to be "killed wherever you might see them", are these the principles we want at catholic schools?"


Actually, there is an Islamic college that just recently opened in California.  They encourage Christians to attend.  I assume that they do not have a campus-wide ban on pork, nor a campus-wide ban on food during Ramadan.  If you would like, I will call them tomorrow and ask these questions.  However, another question is: would it be the Christian thing to do to ban Muslims from Christian colleges?  Are we not supposed to love our enemies?  If someone slaps us across the face, did Christ say "And then ye shall indeed be compelled to beat them furiously with a baseball bat or two-by-four" or did He say "turn the other cheek"?  

On the pork and fasting, why should we need a ban to not tempt Muslims into breaking their fast?  Would you appreciate it if Protestants went out of their way to consume non-fasting foods around you during Great Lent?  

As for the rest of your post, do you not realize that many Muslims are in the United States specifically because they wanted to FLEE from the countries they used to live in or their grandparents or parents chose to flee?  Many Muslims IN Iran disagree with many of Iran's laws - think how much more those who FLED Iran might disagree with them.  Many Muslims IN Saudi Arabia disagree with many of Saudi Arabia's laws - think how much more those who FLED Saudi Arabia might disagree with them.

Islam, like Orthodoxy and Christianity more broadly, cannot be forced into a nice tiny box labeled "Islam".  People are not all the same, even people who share over-arching religious beliefs.  Your post shows an incredible amount of malice, an incredible amount of ignorance, and an incredibly small amount of Christian charity.
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« Reply #55 on: October 28, 2011, 03:13:24 AM »

The sophomoric argument, "Because X group of Muslims/Muslim countries do this, we should do it too," is insane. If we are placing our democracy, values, ideals, economic system above every other country, WHY would we stoop down to that level?

Unless you all want to live in a theocracy or a really corrupt monarchy/"democracy" in the Middle East, then I apologize for my misunderstanding.


sorry to burst your bubble, but its not a certain group of Muslims. Islam encourages Muslims in power to enslave and overpower people of other religions, it is not a religion, but a political cult! i am not saying all muslims are bad, just the ones that actually follow their religion to its fullness!

Fully agree. This is the start of long term infiltration and islamisation by stealth. High birth rates are another weapon they use.

Only by limiting immigration, promoting assimilation into the dominant culture (not multicultarlism) and actively introducing anti-Islamic laws, will the west survive.

Wake up you sheep, the wolves are at the door!!!

So Muslims don't have high birth rates in Muslim countries?  Or is the reason that they have children over there so that they can recruit them into the World Army of Islam for when they invade the West?  I already know that the Muslims here are sleeper agents for it, an ex-Muslim recently told me the phrase that will wake them all up and start the take-over; they'll start saying it to each other in Continental Europe first, then Britain.  Lastly will be America.

If Protestants had limited immigration and promoted assimilation, and actively introduced anti-Catholic and Orthodox laws, (more than they did), we might find that today America would only have Episcopalians and other Protestants.  This situation works both ways.  Don't forget that, at one time, the vast majority of Protestants viewed Catholics as equal to heathens, and viewed Orthodox as funny Catholics.
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« Reply #56 on: October 28, 2011, 04:25:19 AM »

in Britain, 50% of those under 10 years old are muslim, THAT  is scary!

Do you have any facts to go with that? I googled a bit on this and I did not find much. It sounds suspiciously like a bad chain mail rumour....

http://www.eurasiareview.com/19042011-muslims-are-not-a-minority-oped/
Quote
In Belgium, 50 percent of newborns are Muslim

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/more_or_less/8189434.stm
Quote
in the Netherlands, 50% of all newborns are Muslim

I understand that certain individuals are pushing this idea but it doesn't make it so.
Quote

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« Reply #57 on: October 28, 2011, 05:12:25 AM »

in Britain, 50% of those under 10 years old are muslim, THAT  is scary!

There are 2.7million Muslims in Britain.

The census figures for 2001 puts the population in Britain at just under 59mil with 42,079,000 Christian (71.6%), with Muslims at 1,591,000 (2.7%). I don't see how 50% under 10 years old can be Muslim. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_Kingdom#Islam
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« Reply #58 on: October 28, 2011, 07:16:58 AM »

in Britain, 50% of those under 10 years old are muslim, THAT  is scary!

There are 2.7million Muslims in Britain.

The census figures for 2001 puts the population in Britain at just under 59mil with 42,079,000 Christian (71.6%), with Muslims at 1,591,000 (2.7%). I don't see how 50% under 10 years old can be Muslim. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_Kingdom#Islam

Clearly, it is because in the last ten years, all of the Christians stopped having children, and all the Muslim women had at least one every two years.
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« Reply #59 on: October 28, 2011, 12:02:38 PM »

which many Muslim students find inappropriate.”"

Are there "many" Muslim students at Catholic University?

I have a solution for them. http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=mosques+near+%22Catholic+University%22+Washington+DC

These days, this group has a disproportionate influence on our society.  It seems it doesnt matter how many they are they get the most attention.
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« Reply #60 on: October 28, 2011, 02:35:08 PM »

in Britain, 50% of those under 10 years old are muslim, THAT  is scary!

There are 2.7million Muslims in Britain.

The census figures for 2001 puts the population in Britain at just under 59mil with 42,079,000 Christian (71.6%), with Muslims at 1,591,000 (2.7%). I don't see how 50% under 10 years old can be Muslim. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_Kingdom#Islam

Clearly, it is because in the last ten years, all of the Christians stopped having children, and all the Muslim women had at least one every two years.
That statement, however, is predicated on the truth of the assertion that over 50% of those under 10 in the U.K. are Muslim. AISI, this assertion is the thing you and others have been asked to prove. Merely repeating the assertion in different words doesn't prove the assertion.
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« Reply #61 on: October 28, 2011, 02:46:50 PM »

Why can't they just form their group at a local mosque or Islamic society like Christian youth groups do (at Churches)?
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« Reply #62 on: October 28, 2011, 03:35:58 PM »

in Britain, 50% of those under 10 years old are muslim, THAT  is scary!

There are 2.7million Muslims in Britain.

The census figures for 2001 puts the population in Britain at just under 59mil with 42,079,000 Christian (71.6%), with Muslims at 1,591,000 (2.7%). I don't see how 50% under 10 years old can be Muslim. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_Kingdom#Islam

Clearly, it is because in the last ten years, all of the Christians stopped having children, and all the Muslim women had at least one every two years.
That statement, however, is predicated on the truth of the assertion that over 50% of those under 10 in the U.K. are Muslim. AISI, this assertion is the thing you and others have been asked to prove. Merely repeating the assertion in different words doesn't prove the assertion.

Riddikulus disproved it mathematically.  Methinks James is being either very sarcastic or very ridiculous.  Having read his posts in the past I lean towards the former.
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« Reply #63 on: October 28, 2011, 03:41:28 PM »

in Britain, 50% of those under 10 years old are muslim, THAT  is scary!

There are 2.7million Muslims in Britain.

The census figures for 2001 puts the population in Britain at just under 59mil with 42,079,000 Christian (71.6%), with Muslims at 1,591,000 (2.7%). I don't see how 50% under 10 years old can be Muslim. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_Kingdom#Islam

Clearly, it is because in the last ten years, all of the Christians stopped having children, and all the Muslim women had at least one every two years.
That statement, however, is predicated on the truth of the assertion that over 50% of those under 10 in the U.K. are Muslim. AISI, this assertion is the thing you and others have been asked to prove. Merely repeating the assertion in different words doesn't prove the assertion.

Riddikulus disproved it mathematically.
Actually, she didn't, since the census she cited was 10 years ago. Much may have changed in the British demographics since then (though I really doubt that much did).
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« Reply #64 on: October 28, 2011, 03:58:44 PM »

Why can't they just form their group at a local mosque or Islamic society like Christian youth groups do (at Churches)?

 On account that that ain't what the Qur'an tells 'em to do.  Any how, seems to me that there's way too many jackaces who are anxious to appease these people (You're dead wrong, President Hussein, we ARE at war with Islam).  Soooo, all y'all best start saving up for your jizya tax.
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« Reply #65 on: October 28, 2011, 04:35:40 PM »

Why can't they just form their group at a local mosque or Islamic society like Christian youth groups do (at Churches)?

 On account that that ain't what the Qur'an tells 'em to do.  Any how, seems to me that there's way too many jackaces who are anxious to appease these people (You're dead wrong, President Hussein, we ARE at war with Islam).  Soooo, all y'all best start saving up for your jizya tax.

Can the jizya be paid in copper coated lead?
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« Reply #66 on: October 28, 2011, 05:03:00 PM »

Why can't they just form their group at a local mosque or Islamic society like Christian youth groups do (at Churches)?

 On account that that ain't what the Qur'an tells 'em to do.  Any how, seems to me that there's way too many jackaces who are anxious to appease these people (You're dead wrong, President Hussein, we ARE at war with Islam).  Soooo, all y'all best start saving up for your jizya tax.

Can the jizya be paid in copper coated lead?

LOL!  I reckon we 'bout to find out 'fore too long.  Maybe sooner if they start pullin' that shi'ite down here in my neck 'o the woods.  For the record, I don't advocate violence as the first resort, but if they wanna play ball...  Wink
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« Reply #67 on: October 28, 2011, 05:54:29 PM »

The sophomoric argument, "Because X group of Muslims/Muslim countries do this, we should do it too," is insane. If we are placing our democracy, values, ideals, economic system above every other country, WHY would we stoop down to that level?

Unless you all want to live in a theocracy or a really corrupt monarchy/"democracy" in the Middle East, then I apologize for my misunderstanding.


sorry to burst your bubble, but its not a certain group of Muslims. Islam encourages Muslims in power to enslave and overpower people of other religions, it is not a religion, but a political cult! i am not saying all muslims are bad, just the ones that actually follow their religion to its fullness!

Fully agree. This is the start of long term infiltration and islamisation by stealth. High birth rates are another weapon they use.

Only by limiting immigration, promoting assimilation into the dominant culture (not multicultarlism) and actively introducing anti-Islamic laws, will the west survive.

Wake up you sheep, the wolves are at the door!!!

So Muslims don't have high birth rates in Muslim countries?  Or is the reason that they have children over there so that they can recruit them into the World Army of Islam for when they invade the West?  I already know that the Muslims here are sleeper agents for it, an ex-Muslim recently told me the phrase that will wake them all up and start the take-over; they'll start saying it to each other in Continental Europe first, then Britain.  Lastly will be America.

If Protestants had limited immigration and promoted assimilation, and actively introduced anti-Catholic and Orthodox laws, (more than they did), we might find that today America would only have Episcopalians and other Protestants.  This situation works both ways.  Don't forget that, at one time, the vast majority of Protestants viewed Catholics as equal to heathens, and viewed Orthodox as funny Catholics.

I often am amazed at how little of their own family history many cradle Orthodox retain, especially the truth about what their great, or great-great grandparents had to face in terms of ignorance and prejudice. Try researching the Klan in the northern cities of the 1920's. HAd the ruling, white Protestant class embraced a 1920's version of non-multi-culturalism, many of us would still be living in ethnic ghettos in the large cities, speaking poor English as a second language and still be  really 'embracing' our foreign ways - seething all the time with resentment against those who established the rules. Don't delude yourselves - in spite of the depression, in spite of ever the more restrictive immigration laws and in spite of the great 'Red Scare', the nativists failed to prevail.

 And, FYI, many evangelical Protestant leaders, to the extent they even acknowledge our existence, STILL regard us as unsaved heathens and as 'funny Catholics.' The phrase, 'those who forget the past are condemned to repeat its errors' does work both ways and while we should understand the motivations and beliefs of some Muslims, we must be careful with respect to making general claims or unsubstaniated rumor mongering lest we make fools of ourselves in the process like this guy:  http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/ad-gun-training-bars-muslims-obama-voters-153954962.html
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 05:58:23 PM by podkarpatska » Logged
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« Reply #68 on: October 28, 2011, 06:15:20 PM »

in Britain, 50% of those under 10 years old are muslim, THAT  is scary!

There are 2.7million Muslims in Britain.

The census figures for 2001 puts the population in Britain at just under 59mil with 42,079,000 Christian (71.6%), with Muslims at 1,591,000 (2.7%). I don't see how 50% under 10 years old can be Muslim. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_Kingdom#Islam

Clearly, it is because in the last ten years, all of the Christians stopped having children, and all the Muslim women had at least one every two years.
That statement, however, is predicated on the truth of the assertion that over 50% of those under 10 in the U.K. are Muslim. AISI, this assertion is the thing you and others have been asked to prove. Merely repeating the assertion in different words doesn't prove the assertion.

Riddikulus disproved it mathematically.
Actually, she didn't, since the census she cited was 10 years ago. Much may have changed in the British demographics since then (though I really doubt that much did).

That's true. It hasn't. I believe that the popultion for Britain is currently around 62mil. Can't find what the current statistics are regarding Muslim numbers.

Edited. According http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1351251/Number-British-Muslims-double-5-5m-20-years.html Muslim numbers are currently at 2.8mil  Huh in the UK. By the year 2030 that number will have doubled. Projected figures for the Muslim population of the world in 2030 is 2.2billion which is 26.4% of the world population.

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« Reply #69 on: October 28, 2011, 07:18:00 PM »


I have a solution for them: don't attend a Christian school.

Actually, I think it should read  "don't attend a Catholic school"(that actually believes what it preaches)!  There are plenty of Christian schools out there where you would never be able to detect a "Christian" identity.

Sad, but true!
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« Reply #70 on: October 28, 2011, 08:06:04 PM »

i retract my statement as i don't have enough evidence, but the closest i get is that from 0-4 years old muslims represent 11%, but that doesn't give an indicator as to the percentage of births by muslims is.
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« Reply #71 on: October 29, 2011, 12:01:44 AM »

The sophomoric argument, "Because X group of Muslims/Muslim countries do this, we should do it too," is insane. If we are placing our democracy, values, ideals, economic system above every other country, WHY would we stoop down to that level?

Unless you all want to live in a theocracy or a really corrupt monarchy/"democracy" in the Middle East, then I apologize for my misunderstanding.


sorry to burst your bubble, but its not a certain group of Muslims. Islam encourages Muslims in power to enslave and overpower people of other religions, it is not a religion, but a political cult! i am not saying all muslims are bad, just the ones that actually follow their religion to its fullness!

Fully agree. This is the start of long term infiltration and islamisation by stealth. High birth rates are another weapon they use.

Only by limiting immigration, promoting assimilation into the dominant culture (not multicultarlism) and actively introducing anti-Islamic laws, will the west survive.

Wake up you sheep, the wolves are at the door!!!

So Muslims don't have high birth rates in Muslim countries?  Or is the reason that they have children over there so that they can recruit them into the World Army of Islam for when they invade the West?  I already know that the Muslims here are sleeper agents for it, an ex-Muslim recently told me the phrase that will wake them all up and start the take-over; they'll start saying it to each other in Continental Europe first, then Britain.  Lastly will be America.

If Protestants had limited immigration and promoted assimilation, and actively introduced anti-Catholic and Orthodox laws, (more than they did), we might find that today America would only have Episcopalians and other Protestants.  This situation works both ways.  Don't forget that, at one time, the vast majority of Protestants viewed Catholics as equal to heathens, and viewed Orthodox as funny Catholics.

I often am amazed at how little of their own family history many cradle Orthodox retain, especially the truth about what their great, or great-great grandparents had to face in terms of ignorance and prejudice. Try researching the Klan in the northern cities of the 1920's. HAd the ruling, white Protestant class embraced a 1920's version of non-multi-culturalism, many of us would still be living in ethnic ghettos in the large cities, speaking poor English as a second language and still be  really 'embracing' our foreign ways - seething all the time with resentment against those who established the rules. Don't delude yourselves - in spite of the depression, in spite of ever the more restrictive immigration laws and in spite of the great 'Red Scare', the nativists failed to prevail.

 And, FYI, many evangelical Protestant leaders, to the extent they even acknowledge our existence, STILL regard us as unsaved heathens and as 'funny Catholics.' The phrase, 'those who forget the past are condemned to repeat its errors' does work both ways and while we should understand the motivations and beliefs of some Muslims, we must be careful with respect to making general claims or unsubstaniated rumor mongering lest we make fools of ourselves in the process like this guy:  http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/ad-gun-training-bars-muslims-obama-voters-153954962.html

I have no doubt that what you say was true. However the past is the past and Islamic immigration,  mindset and ultimate goals are a different ball game all together.

Orthodox European migrants never set out to impose their religious beliefs on others, set up Islamist parties or try and impose their segregated separate ways, laws, customs in the midst on the majority like the people in this article. Poor yes, but they were not barbarians with a mentality straight out of the middle ages.

There may be moderate or secular Muslims, well educated etc but where exactly are their allegiances going to lie when the shit hits the fan? The floodgates are already open and islamisation will continue to increase until they make up 10% then 20% of the population and so on until they totally takeover just like Lebanon and Palestine.



 
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« Reply #72 on: October 29, 2011, 12:20:28 AM »

as i always say, the only good muslim, is the muslim that doesn't follow islam.
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« Reply #73 on: October 29, 2011, 01:08:39 AM »

in Britain, 50% of those under 10 years old are muslim, THAT  is scary!

There are 2.7million Muslims in Britain.

The census figures for 2001 puts the population in Britain at just under 59mil with 42,079,000 Christian (71.6%), with Muslims at 1,591,000 (2.7%). I don't see how 50% under 10 years old can be Muslim. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_Kingdom#Islam

Clearly, it is because in the last ten years, all of the Christians stopped having children, and all the Muslim women had at least one every two years.
That statement, however, is predicated on the truth of the assertion that over 50% of those under 10 in the U.K. are Muslim. AISI, this assertion is the thing you and others have been asked to prove. Merely repeating the assertion in different words doesn't prove the assertion.

Riddikulus disproved it mathematically.  Methinks James is being either very sarcastic or very ridiculous.  Having read his posts in the past I lean towards the former.

I was being very sarcastic...I didn't realize my sarcasm wasn't evident.
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« Reply #74 on: October 29, 2011, 01:13:20 PM »

According to this relatated article from the Huffington Post, the school denies having received complaints from the muslim students. The article seems to imply the action was taken by a law professor,under his own initiative (my own interpretation).

Quote
The school says they have not received complaints from students themselves, Fox News points out

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/28/muslim-students-catholic-university_n_1064048.html
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« Reply #75 on: October 29, 2011, 01:19:59 PM »

(You're dead wrong, President Hussein, we ARE at war with Islam). 

"My country desires peace," Bush told world leaders in the cavernous main hall at the U.N. "Extremists in your midst spread propaganda claiming that the West is engaged in a war against Islam. This propaganda is false and its purpose is to confuse you and justify acts of terror. We respect Islam."
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« Reply #76 on: October 29, 2011, 01:47:08 PM »

Well, Jetavan, it is G.W. Bush's mealy-mouthed pablum versus the 9/11 commission report, which states unequivocally that "...the enemy is not just 'terrorism', some generic evil....the catastrophic threat at this moment in history is more specific. It is a threat posed by Islamist terrorism -- especially the al Qaeda network, its affiliates, and its ideology." (p. 362; italics in original)

PC waffle emboldens these Islamist nutcases. The president may have very good reasons at any given time for not wanting to say "we are at war with Islam" (after all, why needlessly antagonize nearly two billion people?), but that doesn't make reality anything other than what it is. Personally I am fine with being at war with Islam, because Islam has been at war with everything that isn't itself for 1400 years and counting. I would rather fight for my right to live freely than have to pronounce the shahada so that Muslims don't think I'm a meanie.
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« Reply #77 on: October 29, 2011, 02:39:54 PM »

i thought they respected Jesus and the fact that he died on the cross?

They say he never died on the cross.
One of the craziest theories ever purported.

Don't they also say he moved the rock with his own hands?

There are various theories about how he didn't die. It shows how much of a scandal it was to the Semitic mind that a great prophet much less God would die in such a way.

Almost as bad as telling a Greek that God changed much less died, that whole moronic part of the Gospel. Seems to hold to this day.
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« Reply #78 on: November 03, 2011, 03:58:19 PM »

(You're dead wrong, President Hussein, we ARE at war with Islam). 

"My country desires peace," Bush told world leaders in the cavernous main hall at the U.N. "Extremists in your midst spread propaganda claiming that the West is engaged in a war against Islam. This propaganda is false and its purpose is to confuse you and justify acts of terror. We respect Islam."
There is no doubt, however, that Islam is at war with us.
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« Reply #79 on: November 05, 2011, 02:40:33 AM »

Yes, It always has to be THEIR way!!!!
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« Reply #80 on: November 05, 2011, 02:49:50 AM »

There are various theories about how he didn't die. It shows how much of a scandal it was to the Semitic mind that a great prophet much less God would die in such a way.

Almost as bad as telling a Greek that God changed much less died, that whole moronic part of the Gospel. Seems to hold to this day.

Post of the month!
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« Reply #81 on: November 05, 2011, 09:38:25 AM »

Why can't they just form their group at a local mosque or Islamic society like Christian youth groups do (at Churches)?

Going to their own school would not enable them to sue people.
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« Reply #82 on: November 05, 2011, 11:16:52 AM »

Why can't they just form their group at a local mosque or Islamic society like Christian youth groups do (at Churches)?

Going to their own school would not enable them to sue people.

As far as I can tell, it is only Prof. John Banzhof that is suing or agitating. He seems to be acting as a lone agent provocateur in this (makes me wonder why - member of the Moslem Brotherhood? Disgruntled? Confrontational disorder?) The Moslem students quoted have their own organization and seem comfortable and content in their current situation.

 http://www.cuatower.com/news/2011/10/20/university-accused-of-discriminating-against-muslims/
Also see article I linked in reply #74.
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