Author Topic: Black Vestments?  (Read 3331 times)

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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Black Vestments?
« on: October 25, 2011, 01:29:06 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-6Z2hrBDTo&feature=related

Not sure I've seen this before. Especially not with Russians. When is black used?

Online augustin717

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2011, 01:31:36 AM »
at burials, week days of lent and on holy week.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 01:32:57 AM by augustin717 »

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2011, 02:43:39 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-6Z2hrBDTo&feature=related

Not sure I've seen this before. Especially not with Russians. When is black used?
Didn't Catholic priests wear black, in pre-Vatican II days, for funerals and such?
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Offline LBK

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2011, 03:19:48 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-6Z2hrBDTo&feature=related

Not sure I've seen this before. Especially not with Russians. When is black used?

It is as augustin said. I'm surprised to hear you say "especially not with Russians", where the range of "liturgical colors" according to the season or category of feast is much broader than that of Greek tradition.  A frequent variant is the wearing of dark purple (the brocade also featuring plenty of black in the pattern) during weekdays of Great Lent (red is worn on Saturdays and Sundays), instead of black with silver trim, with the latter worn only during Holy Week.

Regarding Russian funerals, it is not always the case that black or dark purple is worn. Centuries ago, white was the appointed vestment color, but this has almost disappeared, other than for funerals held in Bright Week. Many Russian priests will simply wear whatever color is appointed for that time of the year, such as blue if the funeral falls during the period of a feast to the Mother of God, etc.

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Offline Irish Melkite

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2011, 03:52:21 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-6Z2hrBDTo&feature=related

Not sure I've seen this before. Especially not with Russians. When is black used?
Didn't Catholic priests wear black, in pre-Vatican II days, for funerals and such?

Yes, funerals and Holy Friday as I recollect.
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2011, 09:15:43 AM »
at burials, week days of lent and on holy week.

Up until about twenty years ago or so, maybe more, in ACROD at least,  black was worn as Augustin indicated. However, white is now the prescribed burial and memorial color and black is reserved only for the Great Vespers of Great Friday. Unlike this ROCOR video, our priests vest in purple for Great Lent, including Pre-Sanctified Liturgies, reserved 'red' for the Sunday of the Holy Cross and the Feast of the Exhaltation. Interestingly, the Great Russians change from White to Red following the Paschal matins, prior to Liturgy. So...I don't think there is a rigid, fixed "Orthodox" rule. It varies by tradition and all is good - even if it isn't what you are 'used' to seeing.

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2011, 09:17:13 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-6Z2hrBDTo&feature=related

Not sure I've seen this before. Especially not with Russians. When is black used?
Didn't Catholic priests wear black, in pre-Vatican II days, for funerals and such?

Yes, funerals and Holy Friday as I recollect.

As did Greek Catholics of that era and for some time so did the Orthodox who 'migrated' from Greek Catholicism. Today I think that the Slavic Greek Catholics wear red for these occasions? Not sure why...

Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2011, 01:04:54 PM »
I rather like these vestments.  Of the various colors I've seen thus far, in person, my favorite is red.  My favorite that I've seen ever, is black (followed closely by green).
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Offline Subdeacon Michael

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2011, 07:54:24 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-6Z2hrBDTo&feature=related

Not sure I've seen this before. Especially not with Russians. When is black used?
Didn't Catholic priests wear black, in pre-Vatican II days, for funerals and such?

They still do.  The liturgical reforms did not do away with black: they merely opened up other options.  Many still do wear black.
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Offline FrChris

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2011, 07:59:00 AM »
I have a set of hand-me-down black and silver vestments. It quickly became a fave of my altar staff, who would often ask me to wear my "Oakland Raiders" vestments regardless of the time of year or service.
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Offline AWR

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2011, 09:03:11 AM »

Our OCA parish, of Russian tradition, uses the black vestments on Great and Holy Thursday, Friday and Holy Saturday. 

We use white at funerals.

(We use purple for Great Lent)


Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2011, 10:16:25 AM »
Interesting tidbit:

"In earlier times, there were no black vestments in the Orthodox Church, although the everyday clothing of the clergy, especially the monastics, was black. In ancient times, both in the Greek and in the Russian Churches, the clergy wore, according to the Typikon, "Crimson Vestments": dark (blood) red vestments. In Russia, it was first proposed to the clergy of Saint Petersburg to wear black vestments, if possible, to participate in the Funeral of Emperor Peter II [1821]. From that time on, black vestments became customary for funerals and the weekday services of Great Lent."

That and much more at http://aggreen.net/vestment/liturgical_colors.html

Offline username!

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2011, 02:08:47 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-6Z2hrBDTo&feature=related

Not sure I've seen this before. Especially not with Russians. When is black used?
Didn't Catholic priests wear black, in pre-Vatican II days, for funerals and such?

They still do.  The liturgical reforms did not do away with black: they merely opened up other options.  Many still do wear black.
News to me, I've been to Roman Catholic funerals and such all my life and haven't seen a priest wear black, only white.

Offline Subdeacon Michael

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2011, 04:28:51 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-6Z2hrBDTo&feature=related

Not sure I've seen this before. Especially not with Russians. When is black used?
Didn't Catholic priests wear black, in pre-Vatican II days, for funerals and such?

They still do.  The liturgical reforms did not do away with black: they merely opened up other options.  Many still do wear black.
News to me, I've been to Roman Catholic funerals and such all my life and haven't seen a priest wear black, only white.

This is possibly more to do with your location than anything else. As you are likely aware, each Catholic Bishops' Conference is allowed to make its own variations on standard practice within certain parameters. It has been a few years now since I was interested in modern Roman liturgics so I have had to check. The General Instruction to the Roman Missal in the specific edition of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops gives violet as the primary colour for masses of the dead, with white or black (in that order) given as an alternative. Clearly, your experience is that the last option is seldom used. By contrast, the GIRM of the Conference of England and Wales lists White first, with violet and black given equal weight as alternatives. While it is certainly not commonplace, one does not have to look very hard to find black used.

These trends vary by locale and culture.
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Offline biro

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2011, 06:26:08 PM »
From the funerals I've been to, I think I remember the priest wearing white.
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Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2011, 07:36:16 PM »
black bishops vestments with black crown is the best... 8)

Offline Maria

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2011, 07:52:34 PM »
I have a set of hand-me-down black and silver vestments. It quickly became a fave of my altar staff, who would often ask me to wear my "Oakland Raiders" vestments regardless of the time of year or service.

:D

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Offline Irish Melkite

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2011, 01:50:34 AM »
The use of black vestments in the Latin Church in the US is virtually unheard of in the past 3 decades. One would be hard pressed to even find a full set in a the darkest corners of a sacristy closet.

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2011, 06:03:22 AM »
black bishops vestments with black crown is the best... 8)

Cool!  :angel:
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2011, 02:09:30 PM »
black bishops vestments with black crown is the best... 8)

Cool!  :angel:

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2013, 05:06:14 PM »
wow

Offline 88Devin12

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2013, 05:32:48 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-6Z2hrBDTo&feature=related

Not sure I've seen this before. Especially not with Russians. When is black used?

Holy Week...

Fr. Thomas Hopko talked about this on his series "Worship in Spirit and Truth" where he says that in Orthodoxy, vestments were never black (save for cassocks), and the practice of using black vestments came first in Russia amongst the clergy of St. Petersburg for the funeral of Czar Peter I, and it gradually spread for funerals and use in Holy Week.

Carl has already posted a corresponding point about this as well.

Offline 88Devin12

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2013, 05:32:48 PM »
correcting my previous post, it wasn't Czar Peter I, but Czar Peter II. Forgot the second I...

Offline James2

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2013, 05:38:32 PM »
The western rite employs black vestments for requiem masses (funerals and All Souls' Day) and Good Friday.

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2013, 05:55:00 PM »
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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2013, 06:53:42 PM »
wow

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2013, 07:12:19 PM »

Offline frjohnmorris

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2013, 10:34:49 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-6Z2hrBDTo&feature=related

Not sure I've seen this before. Especially not with Russians. When is black used?

The only mention in the Typikon of color is that at times "dark," or "bright" colors are to be worn.

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2013, 12:13:40 AM »
At my parish Black is worn during the first week of lent and during Holy week with purple being used for the rest of lent(including Sundays....except for Sunday of the Cross at which red is worn...)
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Offline frjohnmorris

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2013, 11:35:22 AM »
It is interesting to note that in Jerusalem and at least at Balamand, the seminary, university and Patriarchal Monastery in Lebanon, the Priests wear white vestments for the Lamentations service on Great and Holy Friday. There is a Youtube of the service.

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Offline OrthoMEX

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Re: Black Vestments?
« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2013, 02:32:07 AM »
In Romania they still wear black vestments for funerals as seen in this video  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqaIpSI3UJs