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Author Topic: Mark Driscoll threatens to sue every other Mars Hill  (Read 3071 times) Average Rating: 0
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Jetavan
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« on: October 21, 2011, 02:13:47 PM »

I don’t know how many churches in America are called Mars Hill. I do know three of them; I have been assured there are many more.
....
The first of these to be started was Mars Hill Seattle, pastored by Mark Driscoll. He founded the church in 1996 and to this day it is one of the fastest growing churches in America and certainly one of the largest in Seattle. I am not exaggerating when I observe that Pastor Mark Driscoll has become one of the most controversial pastors in America. He regularly makes statements concerning the books, sermons and beliefs of other Christians. Many people consider his views on family, family life and procreation to be ultraconservative.
....
The second Mars Hill was founded in 1999 in the city of Grand Rapids, Michigan by Rob Bell. ['Nuff said]
....
The third Mars Hill I know seems caught in the middle. It is pastored in Sacramento, California by a friend of mine, Scott Hagan. Scott planted another church years ago in the Sacramento area, then moved to pastor a mega-church in Michigan and is now back leading at Mars Hill in Sactown. I have Pastor Scott’s permission to share what I am going to write next. Several weeks ago, Scott and his Sacramento congregation received a “Cease and Desist” order which came from the Seattle Mars Hill Church.  They were told that the Seattle Mars Hill had copyrighted the name “Mars Hill” and they demanded that the California Mars Hill churches stop using the name and any logos with similar lettering.
 
I was flabbergasted. First, I could not believe that a church would try and copyright the name of their church. I suppose if you wanted to make some money on the side, you could lease the name out to others. (My friend Ken thought it would be smart to copyright the name “First Baptist” and stick franchise stickers on the name and concept…I applaud his entrepreneurial spirit). But to outright disallow others from using a name that is found in the Bible because you want a monicker and label that only recognizes YOU seems the very epitome of pride and arrogance.


Where may this "cease-and-desist" order be found?

Though I am not allowed to post the document itself, I can post the reference: The Cease and Desist request is from the law firm of Stokes Lawrence in Seattle, Washington. The reference # is:
 43937-016

« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 02:17:22 PM by Jetavan » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2011, 02:27:30 PM »

There's a Baptist church called Mars Hill a stone's throw from my band's rehearsal space in Essex, MD.

Guess they're in the lurch, too.
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« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2011, 02:37:22 PM »

I don’t know how many churches in America are called Mars Hill. I do know three of them; I have been assured there are many more.
....
The first of these to be started was Mars Hill Seattle, pastored by Mark Driscoll. He founded the church in 1996 and to this day it is one of the fastest growing churches in America and certainly one of the largest in Seattle. I am not exaggerating when I observe that Pastor Mark Driscoll has become one of the most controversial pastors in America. He regularly makes statements concerning the books, sermons and beliefs of other Christians. Many people consider his views on family, family life and procreation to be ultraconservative.
....
The second Mars Hill was founded in 1999 in the city of Grand Rapids, Michigan by Rob Bell. ['Nuff said]
....
The third Mars Hill I know seems caught in the middle. It is pastored in Sacramento, California by a friend of mine, Scott Hagan. Scott planted another church years ago in the Sacramento area, then moved to pastor a mega-church in Michigan and is now back leading at Mars Hill in Sactown. I have Pastor Scott’s permission to share what I am going to write next. Several weeks ago, Scott and his Sacramento congregation received a “Cease and Desist” order which came from the Seattle Mars Hill Church.  They were told that the Seattle Mars Hill had copyrighted the name “Mars Hill” and they demanded that the California Mars Hill churches stop using the name and any logos with similar lettering.
 
I was flabbergasted. First, I could not believe that a church would try and copyright the name of their church. I suppose if you wanted to make some money on the side, you could lease the name out to others. (My friend Ken thought it would be smart to copyright the name “First Baptist” and stick franchise stickers on the name and concept…I applaud his entrepreneurial spirit). But to outright disallow others from using a name that is found in the Bible because you want a monicker and label that only recognizes YOU seems the very epitome of pride and arrogance.


Where may this "cease-and-desist" order be found?

Though I am not allowed to post the document itself, I can post the reference: The Cease and Desist request is from the law firm of Stokes Lawrence in Seattle, Washington. The reference # is:
 43937-016



I would probably call him a heretic, or least one who espouses heretical teachings. I am speaking of his religion, not his politics...  

This is troubling though as it is not too far of a stretch to imagine an ultra zealous Catholic Bishop or Orthodox Bishop or a schismatic variant of either, attempting to claim the name of one saint or feastday or another on the same basis.

Actually, the Ruthenian Greek Catholic Ordinary of Pittsburgh tried this in the 1940's arguing that only his denomination could use the term 'Greek Catholic' in the title of parishes. Needless to say a large number of parishes chartered as  a 'Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic', "Ukrainian Orthodox Greek Catholic" or "Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic' churches protested and prevailed.

Hence the Ruthenian Greek Catholics renamed themselves as 'Byzantine Catholic' in the United States which really didn't have any meaning. (Editorial comment: At least the Ukrainian Greek Catholics in the US and Canada were honest to their historical name and didn't run from it as it meant something to them.)

We should look out for this never the less....
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« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2011, 06:31:01 PM »

They must be reading that verse found in some bibles: "Thou shalt sueth other Christians whenever thou desireth."
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« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2011, 01:10:36 PM »

Update:

"The purpose of including both the name and logo in our filing, as opposed to just our name or just our M logo, is to allow us to prevent other churches from combining a 'Mars Hill' name with a substantially similar logo, like what we saw with the Mars Hill churches in Sacramento," said Mike Anderson, director of communications at the Seattle-area church, which is pastored by Mark Driscoll. "We are not concerned with other Mars Hill churches unless their logo and branding is [similar to] ours. Based on our research, there were no other such churches."
....
"In hindsight, we realize now that the way we went about raising our concerns, while acceptable in the business world, is not the way we should deal with fellow Christians," Mars Hill Seattle's elders said. "We made a mistake in not calling these churches prior to sending the letter. We should have picked up the phone before sending any other communication."
....
On Friday, Hagan [pastor of the Sacramento church] and several staff members of the Seattle church had a conference call to reach a compromise, Hagan said. "I agreed to start the process of a logo redesign since they now owned the trademark," he said. "They assured me that even though the letter from Stokes & Lawrence called for a name change, that was off the table."

In a Saturday blog post, elders from the Seattle church said the incident is not part of a larger campaign. "We have not sued any churches and have no plans to sue any churches," they said. "We have not sent any similar letters to any other 'Mars Hill' churches, and we are not planning on asking any church with 'Mars Hill' in their name to change their name."

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« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2011, 01:35:30 PM »

"Branding" HuhHuhHuh A symbol like, say a Cross?  'Branding' - pathetic indeed.
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« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2011, 08:50:28 AM »

I wonder how well Mr. Driscoll is going to do in the Greek courts suing the Basicila of St. Dionysios Areopagite ("of Mars Hill") on Mars Hill, Athens.
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« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2011, 09:05:14 AM »

They must be reading that verse found in some bibles: "Thou shalt sueth other Christians whenever thou desireth."

Early Modern English fail.
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« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2011, 11:50:50 AM »

They must be reading that verse found in some bibles: "Thou shalt sueth other Christians whenever thou desireth."

Early Modern English fail.

Recognizing a joke fail.
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« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2011, 12:23:22 PM »

I guess this is what happens when all these individual churches become individual businesses.
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« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2011, 01:18:35 PM »

When will he get around to suing the planet Mars?
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« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2011, 01:39:32 PM »

When will he get around to suing the planet Mars?

Probably right after he sues mars candy company.
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« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2011, 02:51:01 PM »

I see that someone else has provided an update to the situation, but here is another link:

http://westcoastwitness.com/2011/10/23/mars-hill-seattle-apologizes/

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« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2011, 05:27:01 PM »

What about "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus"?  Wink
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« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2011, 02:33:14 AM »

If he sues Mars Hill, will he climb higher and sue Olympus Mons? police
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« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2011, 07:08:57 AM »

Bruno Mars is probably next in line as well...  Cheesy
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« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2011, 10:04:24 AM »

"War of the worlds" anyone - that is - the original version? Grin
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« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2011, 07:28:14 PM »

In fairness to Mark Driscoll (I attended his church's campus in ABQ with my protestant ex-girlfriend for a year - went to Mass or Divine Liturgy every Sunday, mind you, and never received communion there or enrolled as a member - the point is I know the church somewhat), the logos that Mars Hill in Sacramento uses do actually resemble quite a bit Mark Driscoll's church.

A friend of mine who was raised Catholic and Jewish (confused parents making a compromise) and is now an open, practicing homosexual once told me how much he loves Mars Hill - he went there when he was in California, and I was surprised he wasn't so offended that he left immediately. I googled them because I was certain it couldn't be the same Mars Hill - but I saw the logo and the church website and it looked so similar I thought it was the same and never thought different until I saw this thread.

Yeah, it's probably brand infringement. And yeah, maybe a lawsuit threat isn't the way to go about it, but this Mars Hill is trying to piggyback off of the success of the other one, and if it's, say, accepting of certain behaviors that the Seattle one isn't, then it could look badly for Mars Hill Seattle to many Christians.
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« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2014, 12:59:42 PM »

In response to recent controversies, Seattle pastor Mark Driscoll has written a candid letter to his congregation....

Driscoll is voluntarily retracting his claims to "No. 1 New York Times bestseller" status, because he now sees the marketing campaign used for Real Marriage as "manipulating a book sales reporting system, which is wrong."
....
Driscoll says his "angry-young-prophet days are over." He plans to "reset my life," starting with quitting social media for the rest of 2014 (and maybe longer).
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« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2014, 01:29:36 PM »

I didn't know he was a prophet of some kind.
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« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2014, 01:36:46 PM »

I didn't know he was a prophet of some kind.

Seems like a questionable line of work to get into. Wasn't there a passage in the OT about putting a prophet to death if he was found to be a false one? Plus the ones who weren't false didn't usually come to very pleasant ends either.

Anyway... I have other snarky/jokey comments, but I will keep them to myself. For now. Lent and self control and all that.
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« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2014, 01:37:08 PM »

'we got caught at things....so i am rebooting'


I do honestly hope it is sincere.....
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« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2014, 01:52:04 PM »

In response to recent controversies, Seattle pastor Mark Driscoll has written a candid letter to his congregation....

Driscoll is voluntarily retracting his claims to "No. 1 New York Times bestseller" status, because he now sees the marketing campaign used for Real Marriage as "manipulating a book sales reporting system, which is wrong."
....
Driscoll says his "angry-young-prophet days are over." He plans to "reset my life," starting with quitting social media for the rest of 2014 (and maybe longer).

Am I allowed to call people idiots in this section?
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« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2014, 04:28:41 PM »

In response to recent controversies, Seattle pastor Mark Driscoll has written a candid letter to his congregation....

Driscoll is voluntarily retracting his claims to "No. 1 New York Times bestseller" status, because he now sees the marketing campaign used for Real Marriage as "manipulating a book sales reporting system, which is wrong."
....
Driscoll says his "angry-young-prophet days are over." He plans to "reset my life," starting with quitting social media for the rest of 2014 (and maybe longer).

Am I allowed to call people idiots in this section?

Though I am no longer in a position to run into those sorts of people frequently, I once used “big fan of Mark Driscoll” as a good indicator for how much I could trust someone’s other opinions. It wasn't failsafe, but it came darn close.
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« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2014, 07:01:25 PM »

Isn't the term Mars Hill already copyrighted and owned by the Bible?  Shouldn't Driscoll take this up with God and his team of archangel lawyers?
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« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2014, 07:55:30 AM »

Isn't the term Mars Hill already copyrighted and owned by the Bible?  Shouldn't Driscoll take this up with God and his team of archangel lawyers?

The Bible is public domain.  New translations are copyrighted, otoh.  I would hate to face Archangel, Seraphim, & Cherubim LLP in court, though.
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« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2014, 08:07:52 AM »

Isn't the term Mars Hill already copyrighted and owned by the Bible?  Shouldn't Driscoll take this up with God and his team of archangel lawyers?

The Bible is public domain.  New translations are copyrighted, otoh.  I would hate to face Archangel, Seraphim, & Cherubim LLP in court, though.

Pretty sure Driscoll will already have to...
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« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2014, 12:47:23 PM »

Isn't the term Mars Hill already copyrighted and owned by the Bible?  Shouldn't Driscoll take this up with God and his team of archangel lawyers?

The Bible is public domain.  New translations are copyrighted, otoh.  I would hate to face Archangel, Seraphim, & Cherubim LLP in court, though.

I know.  Just making a lame attempt at humor.
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« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2014, 07:04:13 PM »

Quote
(RNS) Twenty-one former Mars Hill Church pastors have filed charges against Seattle megachurch founder Mark Driscoll, saying that he has engaged in a pattern of abusive and intimidating conduct and has not changed.
....
“He was really important — in the Internet age, Mark Driscoll definitely built up the evangelical movement enormously,” Timothy Keller, the senior pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in New York, told the Times. “But the brashness and the arrogance and the rudeness in personal relationships — which he himself has confessed repeatedly — was obvious to many from the earliest days, and he has definitely now disillusioned quite a lot of people.”

I guess Driscoll created a hostile work environment.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2014, 07:07:59 PM by Jetavan » Logged

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« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2014, 10:27:59 PM »

Oooooh I could tell you stories. Wink

Seriously; the elders that are complaining were part of the problem. Rob Smith, Paul Petry, and Bent Meyer being three of the worst culprits.
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« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2014, 10:36:39 PM »

Oooooh I could tell you stories. Wink

Seriously; the elders that are complaining were part of the problem. Rob Smith, Paul Petry, and Bent Meyer being three of the worst culprits.
Do you mean that the elders were equally rude, arrogant, and cetera?
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« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2014, 10:47:32 PM »

Yes. Rob Smith in particular was (and still is) quite the arrogant blow-hard (but with an admittedly nice South African accent).

They somehow think that repealing the bylaws and "exonerating" Meyer/Petry will do something. The problem is that MH had significant problems well before 2007; hence why we left screaming in terror after attending for a decade.
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« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2014, 10:51:21 PM »

Rob Smith (contrary to what he says) was never an elder officially. He was barely even a deacon. He ran a non-profit that was already headed downhill due to poor implementation. When MH withheld funding they just dropped faster. He wanted to help AIDS orphans in Africa by setting up self sustaining farms. The problem was that there was no research in how to do so in the most effective manner. Sending seeds, and livestock without any education on what to do with them is a recipe for disaster. Smith is an ideas guy that is unwilling to let go and let the planners do things right.
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« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2014, 10:54:36 PM »

Yes. Rob Smith in particular was (and still is) quite the arrogant blow-hard (but with an admittedly nice South African accent).

They somehow think that repealing the bylaws and "exonerating" Meyer/Petry will do something. The problem is that MH had significant problems well before 2007; hence why we left screaming in terror after attending for a decade.
Well, Calvinists have a reputation for being arrogant.  Shocked
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In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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What about frogs? I like frogs!


« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2014, 11:10:07 PM »

The story made it to the NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/23/us/mark-driscoll-is-being-urged-to-leave-mars-hill-church.html?smid=pl-share&_r=1
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« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2014, 07:05:06 PM »

(RNS) Controversial Seattle megachurch founder Mark Driscoll will step down for at least six weeks while church leaders review formal charges lodged by a group of pastors that he abused his power.
....
Returning from vacation Sunday (Aug. 24), Driscoll addressed Mars Hill worship services [speaking from a written statement].
....
“I want to say to my Mars Hill family, past and present, I’m very sorry. I genuinely mean it,” Driscoll said in his address. “I’m very sorry for the times I’ve been angry, short or insensitive. I’m very sorry for anything I’ve done to distract from our mission by inviting criticism, controversy or negative media attention.”
....
Driscoll recently admitted to and apologized for comments he made under the pseudonym “William Wallace II” where he posted statements critical of feminism, homosexuality and “sensitive emasculated” men. He noted those comments again in his address on Sunday.
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2014, 07:31:32 PM »


Driscoll recently admitted to and apologized for comments he made under the pseudonym “William Wallace II” where he posted statements critical of feminism, homosexuality and “sensitive emasculated” men. He noted those comments again in his address on Sunday.


Wait...so he apologized for being an OC.net poster?Huh Shocked Shocked
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« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2014, 07:34:33 PM »


Driscoll recently admitted to and apologized for comments he made under the pseudonym “William Wallace II” where he posted statements critical of feminism, homosexuality and “sensitive emasculated” men. He noted those comments again in his address on Sunday.


Wait...so he apologized for being an OC.net poster?Huh Shocked Shocked
Roll Eyes Grin
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2014, 07:35:39 PM »


Driscoll recently admitted to and apologized for comments he made under the pseudonym “William Wallace II” where he posted statements critical of feminism, homosexuality and “sensitive emasculated” men. He noted those comments again in his address on Sunday.


Wait...so he apologized for being an OC.net poster?Huh Shocked Shocked

Seriously, don't Google that essay. He wrote it when he was 29, and it is so malicious it'll make your skin crawl.
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Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?

Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied.

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« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2014, 07:58:47 PM »

My husband and I participated on that thread, so did most of the men now speaking out about how horrible it is/was.
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