|
Jetavan
|
 |
« on: October 21, 2011, 02:13:47 PM » |
|
I don’t know how many churches in America are called Mars Hill. I do know three of them; I have been assured there are many more.
....
The first of these to be started was Mars Hill Seattle, pastored by Mark Driscoll. He founded the church in 1996 and to this day it is one of the fastest growing churches in America and certainly one of the largest in Seattle. I am not exaggerating when I observe that Pastor Mark Driscoll has become one of the most controversial pastors in America. He regularly makes statements concerning the books, sermons and beliefs of other Christians. Many people consider his views on family, family life and procreation to be ultraconservative.
....
The second Mars Hill was founded in 1999 in the city of Grand Rapids, Michigan by Rob Bell. ['Nuff said]
....
The third Mars Hill I know seems caught in the middle. It is pastored in Sacramento, California by a friend of mine, Scott Hagan. Scott planted another church years ago in the Sacramento area, then moved to pastor a mega-church in Michigan and is now back leading at Mars Hill in Sactown. I have Pastor Scott’s permission to share what I am going to write next. Several weeks ago, Scott and his Sacramento congregation received a “Cease and Desist” order which came from the Seattle Mars Hill Church. They were told that the Seattle Mars Hill had copyrighted the name “Mars Hill” and they demanded that the California Mars Hill churches stop using the name and any logos with similar lettering.
I was flabbergasted. First, I could not believe that a church would try and copyright the name of their church. I suppose if you wanted to make some money on the side, you could lease the name out to others. (My friend Ken thought it would be smart to copyright the name “First Baptist” and stick franchise stickers on the name and concept…I applaud his entrepreneurial spirit). But to outright disallow others from using a name that is found in the Bible because you want a monicker and label that only recognizes YOU seems the very epitome of pride and arrogance.Where may this "cease-and-desist" order be found? Though I am not allowed to post the document itself, I can post the reference: The Cease and Desist request is from the law firm of Stokes Lawrence in Seattle, Washington. The reference # is:
43937-016
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 02:17:22 PM by Jetavan »
|
Logged
|
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
I'm not a witch.
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
|
|
|
|
Schultz
|
|
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2011, 02:27:30 PM » |
|
There's a Baptist church called Mars Hill a stone's throw from my band's rehearsal space in Essex, MD.
Guess they're in the lurch, too.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
|
|
|
|
podkarpatska
|
|
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2011, 02:37:22 PM » |
|
I don’t know how many churches in America are called Mars Hill. I do know three of them; I have been assured there are many more.
....
The first of these to be started was Mars Hill Seattle, pastored by Mark Driscoll. He founded the church in 1996 and to this day it is one of the fastest growing churches in America and certainly one of the largest in Seattle. I am not exaggerating when I observe that Pastor Mark Driscoll has become one of the most controversial pastors in America. He regularly makes statements concerning the books, sermons and beliefs of other Christians. Many people consider his views on family, family life and procreation to be ultraconservative.
....
The second Mars Hill was founded in 1999 in the city of Grand Rapids, Michigan by Rob Bell. ['Nuff said]
....
The third Mars Hill I know seems caught in the middle. It is pastored in Sacramento, California by a friend of mine, Scott Hagan. Scott planted another church years ago in the Sacramento area, then moved to pastor a mega-church in Michigan and is now back leading at Mars Hill in Sactown. I have Pastor Scott’s permission to share what I am going to write next. Several weeks ago, Scott and his Sacramento congregation received a “Cease and Desist” order which came from the Seattle Mars Hill Church. They were told that the Seattle Mars Hill had copyrighted the name “Mars Hill” and they demanded that the California Mars Hill churches stop using the name and any logos with similar lettering.
I was flabbergasted. First, I could not believe that a church would try and copyright the name of their church. I suppose if you wanted to make some money on the side, you could lease the name out to others. (My friend Ken thought it would be smart to copyright the name “First Baptist” and stick franchise stickers on the name and concept…I applaud his entrepreneurial spirit). But to outright disallow others from using a name that is found in the Bible because you want a monicker and label that only recognizes YOU seems the very epitome of pride and arrogance.Where may this "cease-and-desist" order be found? Though I am not allowed to post the document itself, I can post the reference: The Cease and Desist request is from the law firm of Stokes Lawrence in Seattle, Washington. The reference # is:
43937-016 I would probably call him a heretic, or least one who espouses heretical teachings. I am speaking of his religion, not his politics... This is troubling though as it is not too far of a stretch to imagine an ultra zealous Catholic Bishop or Orthodox Bishop or a schismatic variant of either, attempting to claim the name of one saint or feastday or another on the same basis. Actually, the Ruthenian Greek Catholic Ordinary of Pittsburgh tried this in the 1940's arguing that only his denomination could use the term 'Greek Catholic' in the title of parishes. Needless to say a large number of parishes chartered as a 'Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic', "Ukrainian Orthodox Greek Catholic" or "Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic' churches protested and prevailed. Hence the Ruthenian Greek Catholics renamed themselves as 'Byzantine Catholic' in the United States which really didn't have any meaning. (Editorial comment: At least the Ukrainian Greek Catholics in the US and Canada were honest to their historical name and didn't run from it as it meant something to them.) We should look out for this never the less.... |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Jason.Wike
|
|
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2011, 06:31:01 PM » |
|
They must be reading that verse found in some bibles: "Thou shalt sueth other Christians whenever thou desireth."
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
If you give up pride of place for yourself to God, you will find your soul and eternity.. if you insist on putting yourself before God you will loose yourself eternally.
|
|
|
|
Jetavan
|
|
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2011, 01:10:36 PM » |
|
Update: "The purpose of including both the name and logo in our filing, as opposed to just our name or just our M logo, is to allow us to prevent other churches from combining a 'Mars Hill' name with a substantially similar logo, like what we saw with the Mars Hill churches in Sacramento," said Mike Anderson, director of communications at the Seattle-area church, which is pastored by Mark Driscoll. "We are not concerned with other Mars Hill churches unless their logo and branding is [similar to] ours. Based on our research, there were no other such churches."
....
"In hindsight, we realize now that the way we went about raising our concerns, while acceptable in the business world, is not the way we should deal with fellow Christians," Mars Hill Seattle's elders said. "We made a mistake in not calling these churches prior to sending the letter. We should have picked up the phone before sending any other communication."
....
On Friday, Hagan [pastor of the Sacramento church] and several staff members of the Seattle church had a conference call to reach a compromise, Hagan said. "I agreed to start the process of a logo redesign since they now owned the trademark," he said. "They assured me that even though the letter from Stokes & Lawrence called for a name change, that was off the table."
In a Saturday blog post, elders from the Seattle church said the incident is not part of a larger campaign. "We have not sued any churches and have no plans to sue any churches," they said. "We have not sent any similar letters to any other 'Mars Hill' churches, and we are not planning on asking any church with 'Mars Hill' in their name to change their name." |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
I'm not a witch.
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
|
|
|
|
|
|
ialmisry
|
|
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2011, 08:50:28 AM » |
|
I wonder how well Mr. Driscoll is going to do in the Greek courts suing the Basicila of St. Dionysios Areopagite ("of Mars Hill") on Mars Hill, Athens.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
|
|
|
|
Iconodule
|
|
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2011, 09:05:14 AM » |
|
They must be reading that verse found in some bibles: "Thou shalt sueth other Christians whenever thou desireth."
Early Modern English fail. |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 09:06:31 AM by Iconodule »
|
Logged
|
"A Poet a Painter a Musician an Architect: the Man Or Woman who is not one of these is not a Christian." - William Blake
|
|
|
|
Jason.Wike
|
|
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2011, 11:50:50 AM » |
|
They must be reading that verse found in some bibles: "Thou shalt sueth other Christians whenever thou desireth."
Early Modern English fail. Recognizing a joke fail. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
If you give up pride of place for yourself to God, you will find your soul and eternity.. if you insist on putting yourself before God you will loose yourself eternally.
|
|
|
Timon
Elder
 Offline
Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,422
|
|
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2011, 12:23:22 PM » |
|
I guess this is what happens when all these individual churches become individual businesses.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Even if we have thousands of acts of great virtue to our credit, our confidence in being heard must be based on God's mercy and His love for men. Even if we stand at the very summit of virtue, it is by mercy that we shall be saved. — Chrysostom BLOG |
|
|
biro
Ursus maritimus
Site Supporter
Stratopedarches
 Online
Faith: Raised Roman Catholic; now attend GOA
Jurisdiction: Metropolis of Atlanta
Posts: 9,606
Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου
|
|
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2011, 01:18:35 PM » |
|
When will he get around to suing the planet Mars?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
phthalyl.podomatic.com
the-cornet.blogspot.com
|
|
|
Timon
Elder
Offline
Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,422
|
|
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2011, 01:39:32 PM » |
|
When will he get around to suing the planet Mars?
Probably right after he sues mars candy company. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Even if we have thousands of acts of great virtue to our credit, our confidence in being heard must be based on God's mercy and His love for men. Even if we stand at the very summit of virtue, it is by mercy that we shall be saved. — Chrysostom BLOG |
|
|
|
|
|
podkarpatska
|
|
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2011, 05:27:01 PM » |
|
What about "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus"?  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Gamliel
Elder
Offline
Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 1,000
|
|
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2011, 02:33:14 AM » |
|
If he sues Mars Hill, will he climb higher and sue Olympus Mons?  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Milliardo
Saviour Gundam Pilot
Jr. Member
Offline
Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 81
Saviour Gundam Pilot
|
|
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2011, 07:08:57 AM » |
|
Bruno Mars is probably next in line as well... 
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
podkarpatska
|
|
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2011, 10:04:24 AM » |
|
"War of the worlds" anyone - that is - the original version?  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
WetCatechumen
Roman Catholic
Member
Offline
Faith: Catholic Christianity
Jurisdiction: Latin Rite - Archdiocese of Santa Fe; Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Eparchy of Phoenix
Posts: 297
|
|
« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2011, 07:28:14 PM » |
|
In fairness to Mark Driscoll (I attended his church's campus in ABQ with my protestant ex-girlfriend for a year - went to Mass or Divine Liturgy every Sunday, mind you, and never received communion there or enrolled as a member - the point is I know the church somewhat), the logos that Mars Hill in Sacramento uses do actually resemble quite a bit Mark Driscoll's church.
A friend of mine who was raised Catholic and Jewish (confused parents making a compromise) and is now an open, practicing homosexual once told me how much he loves Mars Hill - he went there when he was in California, and I was surprised he wasn't so offended that he left immediately. I googled them because I was certain it couldn't be the same Mars Hill - but I saw the logo and the church website and it looked so similar I thought it was the same and never thought different until I saw this thread.
Yeah, it's probably brand infringement. And yeah, maybe a lawsuit threat isn't the way to go about it, but this Mars Hill is trying to piggyback off of the success of the other one, and if it's, say, accepting of certain behaviors that the Seattle one isn't, then it could look badly for Mars Hill Seattle to many Christians.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"And because they have nothing better to do, they take cushion and chairs to Rome. And while the Pope is saying liturgy, they go, 'Oh, oh, oh, filioque!' And the Pope say, 'Filioque? That-uh sound nice! I think I divide-uh the Church over it!'" - Comrade Real Presence
|
|
|
|
