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Ansgar
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« on: October 21, 2011, 10:43:07 AM »

I came across this verse from the Gospel of Mark and I don't really understand it.

[31] There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.
[32] And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.
[33] And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?
[34] And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
[35] For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

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« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2011, 01:04:29 PM »

You don't have any opinions? This is why I love Mark. He's a challenge.

How about this for some help. One of the Gospel readings on the Nativity of the Theotokos (and all her feasts I believe) is:

Quote
Luke 11:27-28
New King James Version (NKJV)

27 And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!”
28 But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

How do you understand that within the context of the Gospel and the liturgical setting?

I would like to hear your ideas, rather than what I know is to come.

Sometimes fresh eyes offer some interesting insights.


« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 01:15:57 PM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2011, 01:13:04 PM »

I came across this verse from the Gospel of Mark and I don't really understand it.

[31] There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.
[32] And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.
[33] And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?
[34] And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
[35] For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.



Must be King James Bible, isn't it?

"Without" means "outside" in modern English.

Christ sits in a house with a group of His followers, and someone says, "hey, look, Your Mom and sibs are over there, outside." And He answers, "hey, guys, you who listen to Me, you are My true family."

To me, these verses were a challenge, too, because He did not say, "you are ALSO My family." So it might seem that He did not consider His Mother and siblings His family, even though He certainly did. Plus, His Mother was among His followers from the very beginning of His ministry, and at least one of His brothers (James) became the bishop in Jerusalem and wrote a canonical Bible book.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 01:13:45 PM by Heorhij » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2011, 01:32:40 PM »

In both gospel passages above, the Lord is simply emphasizing that we must seek to do the will of God above all.  In the verses from the Gospel of St. Mark, the Lord says that "whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother."  In the Gospel of St. Luke quoted above He says “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”  Similarly, the Lord said to the Jews in the Gospel of St. John that "If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham (John 8 :39)."  To the Jews who sought to justify themselves on the basis that they were "children of Abraham," the Lord also said, "Do not think to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones (Matt 3:9)."  We will not be approved by God on account of our nationality, our bloodline, or by who we know, but rather on whether we have ourselves done the will of God and obeyed His commandments.  In the verses from the Gospels of St. Mark & St. Luke, the Lord was not disrespecting the Theotokos, but was rather emphasizing that her glory comes from her obedience to the will of God and not simply from giving birth to the Lord. 

From St. John Chrysostom, on Matt 12:50:

For He said not, “Go thy way, tell my mother, thou art not my mother,” but He addresses Himself to the person that told Him; saying, “Who is my mother?” together with the things that have been mentioned providing for another object also. What then is that? That neither they nor others confiding in their kindred, should neglect virtue. For if she is nothing profited by being His mother, were it not for that quality in her, hardly will any one else be saved by his kindred. For there is one only nobleness, to do the will of God. This kind of noble birth is better than the other, and more real.

2. Knowing therefore these things, let us neither pride ourselves on children that are of good report, unless we have their virtue; nor upon noble fathers, unless we be like them in disposition. For it is possible, both that he who begat a man should not be his father, and that he who did not beget him should be. Therefore in another place also, when some woman had said, “Blessed is the womb that bare Thee, and the paps which Thou hast sucked;” He said not, “The womb bare me not, neither did I suck the paps,” but this, “Yea rather, blessed are they that do the will of my Father.”  Seest thou how on every occasion He denies not the affinity by nature, but adds that by virtue? And His forerunner too, in saying, “O generation of vipers, think not to say, We have Abraham to our father,” means not this, that they were not naturally of Abraham, but that it profits them nothing to be of Abraham, unless they had the affinity by character; which Christ also declared, when He said, “If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham;” not depriving them of their kindred according to the flesh, but teaching them to seek after that affinity which is greater than it, and more real.


http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf110.iii.XLIV.html
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 02:02:50 PM by jah777 » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2011, 02:44:31 PM »

Oh well.

Wondered what his thoughts were . . .  

There's the answer.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 02:44:42 PM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2011, 03:05:54 PM »

I came across this verse from the Gospel of Mark and I don't really understand it.
Who did the will of Christ first and throughout their life?
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« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2011, 03:23:46 PM »

Oh well.

Wondered what his thoughts were . . .  

There's the answer.

I couldn't really understand the part with Mary and his brothers. That's why I asked  Smiley
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« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2011, 09:46:33 PM »

Oh well.

Wondered what his thoughts were . . .  

There's the answer.

I couldn't really understand the part with Mary and his brothers. That's why I asked  Smiley

What do you mean exactly? I understand English is not your first tongue. Are you having trouble with the English here or also in Scripture in your mother tongue? Which is what? I don't remember . . .
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« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2011, 06:40:34 AM »

Oh well.

Wondered what his thoughts were . . .  

There's the answer.

I couldn't really understand the part with Mary and his brothers. That's why I asked  Smiley

What do you mean exactly? I understand English is not your first tongue. Are you having trouble with the English here or also in Scripture in your mother tongue? Which is what? I don't remember . . .

Alright I will try to explain it. I read an article which dealt with the Theotokos and her approach to Christ in the different gospels. So my question is: Why was Jesus' family looking for him?
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« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2011, 07:07:52 AM »

I came across this verse from the Gospel of Mark and I don't really understand it.

[31] There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.
[32] And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.
[33] And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?
[34] And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
[35] For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.


Quote
Who do you love and cherish the most? God did not intend for us to be alone, but to be with others. He gives us many opportunities for developing relationships with family, friends, neighbors, and co-workers. Why did Jesus, on this occasion, seem to ignore his own relatives when they pressed to see him? His love and respect for his mother and his relatives was unquestionable. Jesus never lost an opportunity to teach his disciples a spiritual lesson and truth about the kingdom of God. On this occasion when many gathered to hear Jesus he pointed to another higher reality of relationships, namely our relationship with God and with those who belong to God.

What is the essence of being a Christian? It is certainly more than doctrine, precepts, and commandments. It is first and foremost a relationship – a relationship of trust, affection, commitment, loyalty, faithfulness, kindness, thoughtfulness, compassion, mercy, helpfulness, encouragement, support, strength, protection, and so many other qualities that bind people together in mutual love and unity. God offers us the greatest of relationships – union of heart, mind, and spirit with himself, the very author and source of love (1 John 4:8,16). God's love never fails, never forgets, never compromises, never lies, never lets us down nor disappoints us. His love is consistent, unwavering, unconditional, and unstopable. Nothing can deter him from ever leaving us, ignoring us, or treating us unkindly. He will love us no matter what. It is his nature to love. That is why he created us – to be united with him and to share in his love and unity of persons (1 John 3:1). God is a trinity of persons – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit – and a community of love. That is why Jesus challenged his followers and even his own earthly relatives to recognize that God is the true source of all relationships. God wants all of our relationships to be rooted in his love.

Jesus is God's love incarnate – God's love made visible in human flesh (1 John 4:9-10). That is why Jesus describes himself as the good shepherd who lays down his life for his sheep and the shepherd who seeks out the sheep who have strayed and lost their way. God is like the father who yearns for his prodigal son to return home and then throws a great party for his son when he has a change of heart and comes back (Luke 15:11-32). Jesus offered up his life on the cross for our sake, so that we could be forgiven and restored to unity and friendship with God. It is through Jesus that we become the adopted children of God – his own sons and daughters. That is why Jesus told his disciples that they would have many new friends and family relationships in his kingdom. Whoever does the will of God is a friend of God and a member of his family – his sons and daughters who have been ransomed by the precious blood of Christ.

An early Christian martyr once said that "a Christian's only relatives are the saints" – namely those who have been redeemed by the blood of Christ and adopted as sons and daughters of God. Those who have been baptized into Jesus Christ and who live as his disciples enter into a new family, a family of "saints" here on earth and in heaven. Jesus changes the order of relationships and shows that true kinship is not just a matter of flesh and blood. Our adoption as sons and daughters of God transforms all of our relationships and requires a new order of loyalty to God first and to his kingdom of righteousness and peace. Do you want to grow in love and friendship? Allow God's Holy Spirit to transform your heart, mind, and will to enable you to love freely and generously as he loves.

"Heavenly Father, you are the source of all true friendship and love. In all my relationships, may your love be my constant guide for choosing what is good and for rejecting what is contrary to your will."
http://www.rc.net/wcc/readings/mark3v31.htm
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« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2011, 07:25:47 AM »

You don't have any opinions? This is why I love Mark. He's a challenge.

How about this for some help. One of the Gospel readings on the Nativity of the Theotokos (and all her feasts I believe) is:

Quote
Luke 11:27-28
New King James Version (NKJV)

27 And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!”
28 But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

How do you understand that within the context of the Gospel and the liturgical setting?

I would like to hear your ideas, rather than what I know is to come.

Sometimes fresh eyes offer some interesting insights.



Christ is saying that while the Theotokos is highly venerated, one who is like her is also worthy of recognition from God. And the Theotokos isn't so much blessed by just giving birth and nursing Him, but rather listening and obeying the word: Luke 1:38, "Behold, I am the servant[a] of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word."
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 07:26:21 AM by Achronos » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2011, 07:43:57 AM »

Oh well.

Wondered what his thoughts were . . .  

There's the answer.

I couldn't really understand the part with Mary and his brothers. That's why I asked  Smiley

What do you mean exactly? I understand English is not your first tongue. Are you having trouble with the English here or also in Scripture in your mother tongue? Which is what? I don't remember . . .

Alright I will try to explain it. I read an article which dealt with the Theotokos and her approach to Christ in the different gospels. So my question is: Why was Jesus' family looking for him?
They were looking for Him because they thought He'd gone mad. They were looking to drag Him home so He wouldn't bring public shame on the family.
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