Author Topic: Do you cook?  (Read 28074 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline vamrat

  • Vamratoraptor
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,462
  • Faith: Serbian Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of New Gracanica
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #135 on: March 01, 2012, 10:44:39 AM »
I'm not a sex tourist, I'm just looking for companionship and a loving relationship with an Orthodox woman. Okay, maybe there is a little sexual motive but that comes second! I would marry a non-sexually attractive woman with a good heart and personality over a beautiful, sexually attractive woman with a horrible personality.

Sorry but this whole idea of picking out a woman like a stuffed animal that will cook for you, clean for you, be obedient and otherwise be exactly what YOU want is deeply offensive.  That's a completely different mentality than deciding to move to Eastern Europe to work or study and if you just happen to meet the perfect person deciding to get married and stay.  You often post about wanting to pick out your teddy bear wife, but you hardly ever talk about having any respect or love for Russian or Ukrainian culture.  Have you read any literature from here?  Have you started learning Russian?  What do YOU have to offer anybody in Eastern Europe other than your passport?  You'll be surprised by reality as well - my wife speaks four languages fluently and has a master's degree.  She's hardly looking to stay at home and wait on me.  My blood boils over sex tourism because it is a personal issue; every time my wife says our last name (which is obviously not local) or mentions that her husband isn't Ukrainian she gets looks of contempt with people assuming the worst.  All thanks to potential and actual sex tourists like you.  Thanks!



Do people really go to Ukraine for sex tourism?  I always figured Thailand would be ideal, but seeing as I am broke I've had to suffice with Myanmar and Laos as of late.


But seriously, I think you are being a little bit harsh on James.  It sounds to me that he is looking for someone with so-called traditional values.  Nothing he's said sounds like he wants to enslave her, and quite honestly, judging from his tone I think any woman with a strong will will have no trouble with him at all. 
I can understand where he is coming from.  I have met plenty of women from "the other side of the Iron Curtain" (not all have been Russian) and I find them much easier to get along with than most American girls...and most of the ones I've met would not fit any description of the word "mousey".  The things I find attractive about these women are what you describe.  I have found them to be intelligent and cultured.  I have yet to meet one who is monolingual.  Many of them have known three or four languages, and a Masters Degree is not uncommon amongst them - being entirely uneducated is.   
And honestly, if marrying an Orthodox woman is important to him (and I think it should be) there's a good chance that if he finds one, she is not going to be American.  Just as a matter of attrition.  All of single women I know who are Orthodox and older than 12 are foreign.  If I have to go back into the dating game again I would certainly prefer to meet an Orthodox woman, so I can see where he is coming from.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline JamesR

  • The Second Coming of Jason
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,913
  • Remember me?
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #136 on: March 01, 2012, 03:30:32 PM »
Sorry but this whole idea of picking out a woman like a stuffed animal that will cook for you, clean for you, be obedient and otherwise be exactly what YOU want is deeply offensive.

I apologize. Only, I think you are exaggerating me. I've never talked about enslaving or picking out a woman like a stuffed animal. 

Quote
That's a completely different mentality than deciding to move to Eastern Europe to work or study and if you just happen to meet the perfect person deciding to get married and stay.  You often post about wanting to pick out your teddy bear wife, but you hardly ever talk about having any respect or love for Russian or Ukrainian culture.  Have you read any literature from here?  Have you started learning Russian?

I'm studying the history of the Russian Orthodox Church and befriending the Russian members of the Parish to learn about the culture firsthand. Once again, I never meant to offend you. 

Quote
What do YOU have to offer anybody in Eastern Europe other than your passport?

The will to help the suffering in whatever way I possibly can using all of my western resources to benefit your kind.

Offline mark thomas

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 152
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #137 on: March 03, 2012, 02:00:49 PM »
My son LOVES kvas. We're making it ourselves fo the first time, following this recipe found online: http://m.whats4eats.com/beverages/kvas-recipe. Seems pretty simple & straightforward. Guess we'll know in a week how we did! Any expert tips or thoughts?
"Who touches, is also touched"

Offline Melodist

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,522
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #138 on: March 03, 2012, 10:07:24 PM »
Do people really go to Ukraine for sex tourism?  I always figured Thailand would be ideal,

Ever see The Hangover 2?

Quote
And honestly, if marrying an Orthodox woman is important to him (and I think it should be) there's a good chance that if he finds one, she is not going to be American.

I think this pretty much sums it up.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 10:08:07 PM by Melodist »
And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

Made Perfect in Weakness - Latest Post: The Son of God

Offline vamrat

  • Vamratoraptor
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,462
  • Faith: Serbian Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of New Gracanica
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #139 on: March 03, 2012, 10:26:16 PM »
Do people really go to Ukraine for sex tourism?  I always figured Thailand would be ideal,

Ever see The Hangover 2?


Yep.   ;)
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline mark thomas

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 152
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #140 on: March 04, 2012, 04:02:17 AM »
My son LOVES kvas. We're making it ourselves fo the first time, following this recipe found online: http://m.whats4eats.com/beverages/kvas-recipe. Seems pretty simple & straightforward. Guess we'll know in a week how we did! Any expert tips or thoughts?

Answering my own post: don't use that recipe. Liquid measurement way off, apparently.
"Who touches, is also touched"

Offline Νεκτάριος

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,437
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #141 on: March 05, 2012, 08:28:06 AM »
Do people really go to Ukraine for sex tourism?  I always figured Thailand would be ideal, but seeing as I am broke I've had to suffice with Myanmar and Laos as of late.

If you book at the right time a flight from London to Kyiv can be under 100 USD.  Sex tourism and human trafficing are the unfortunate realities of that.  The mail order bride business is really just an extension of sex tourism.  Of course not all international relationships fit that mold; not all women in this situations are victimized by a long shot.  Nonetheless I find it unsettling to refer to refer to Russia / Ukraine as a source of some sort of commodity designed for the consumption of Western men seeking "traditional values".  Remember that I deal with this on a daily basis and see a lot of suffering this causes first hand.         

I have met plenty of women from "the other side of the Iron Curtain" (not all have been Russian) and I find them much easier to get along with than most American girls...and most of the ones I've met would not fit any description of the word "mousey".  The things I find attractive about these women are what you describe.  I have found them to be intelligent and cultured.  I have yet to meet one who is monolingual.  Many of them have known three or four languages, and a Masters Degree is not uncommon amongst them - being entirely uneducated is.

Keep in mind that if you meet someone from the CIS in the West they likely aren't typical as obtaining a visa is a rigorous process.  But to some extent I agree with you that generally Russian culture promotes a lot of things that I value such as education and cultural literacy.  Unfortunately I rarely see intellectually equal relationships - some Western brute talking about nonsense while his lady is discussing her favorite Esenin poems in Russian. 

And honestly, if marrying an Orthodox woman is important to him (and I think it should be) there's a good chance that if he finds one, she is not going to be American.  Just as a matter of attrition.  All of single women I know who are Orthodox and older than 12 are foreign.  If I have to go back into the dating game again I would certainly prefer to meet an Orthodox woman, so I can see where he is coming from.

There is a huge difference between normal dating and relationships than "I'm going to Russia to pick me out a woman". 

Offline Sauron

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 844
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #142 on: March 05, 2012, 11:23:36 AM »
There is a huge difference between normal dating and relationships than "I'm going to Russia to pick me out a woman". 

What makes you think that dating is "normal"?


Offline Νεκτάριος

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,437
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #143 on: March 05, 2012, 11:29:17 AM »
There is a huge difference between normal dating and relationships than "I'm going to Russia to pick me out a woman". 

What makes you think that dating is "normal"?

The other options are an arranged marriage or treating women as a commodity to be purchased / selected.  Given the options, I'll take dating. 

Offline Sauron

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 844
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #144 on: March 05, 2012, 11:33:26 AM »
There is a huge difference between normal dating and relationships than "I'm going to Russia to pick me out a woman". 

What makes you think that dating is "normal"?

The other options are an arranged marriage or treating women as a commodity to be purchased / selected.  Given the options, I'll take dating. 

That doesn't make dating "normal". Dating is a rather modern innovation. By the way, what makes you think you weren't "selected"?

Arranged marriage is ideal.


Offline Νεκτάριος

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,437
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #145 on: March 05, 2012, 11:37:52 AM »
There is a huge difference between normal dating and relationships than "I'm going to Russia to pick me out a woman". 

What makes you think that dating is "normal"?

The other options are an arranged marriage or treating women as a commodity to be purchased / selected.  Given the options, I'll take dating. 

That doesn't make dating "normal". Dating is a rather modern innovation. By the way, what makes you think you weren't "selected"?

Arranged marriage is ideal.

So two people who hate each other and are incompatible should be forced to marry because their parents made some sort of deal?

Offline Sauron

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 844
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #146 on: March 05, 2012, 11:40:18 AM »
There is a huge difference between normal dating and relationships than "I'm going to Russia to pick me out a woman". 

What makes you think that dating is "normal"?

The other options are an arranged marriage or treating women as a commodity to be purchased / selected.  Given the options, I'll take dating. 

That doesn't make dating "normal". Dating is a rather modern innovation. By the way, what makes you think you weren't "selected"?

Arranged marriage is ideal.

So two people who hate each other and are incompatible should be forced to marry because their parents made some sort of deal?

What makes you think that is how arranged marriage works? I think you have seen "Coming to America" too many times. Was your first job in the Ukraine at McDowell's?


Offline Νεκτάριος

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,437
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #147 on: March 05, 2012, 11:44:48 AM »
There is a huge difference between normal dating and relationships than "I'm going to Russia to pick me out a woman". 

What makes you think that dating is "normal"?

The other options are an arranged marriage or treating women as a commodity to be purchased / selected.  Given the options, I'll take dating. 

That doesn't make dating "normal". Dating is a rather modern innovation. By the way, what makes you think you weren't "selected"?

Arranged marriage is ideal.

So two people who hate each other and are incompatible should be forced to marry because their parents made some sort of deal?

What makes you think that is how arranged marriage works? I think you have seen "Coming to America" too many times. Was your first job in the Ukraine at McDowell's?

I'd never even heard of the movie until now.  Then how does arranged marriage work? 

Offline Sauron

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 844
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #148 on: March 05, 2012, 11:52:01 AM »
There is a huge difference between normal dating and relationships than "I'm going to Russia to pick me out a woman". 

What makes you think that dating is "normal"?

The other options are an arranged marriage or treating women as a commodity to be purchased / selected.  Given the options, I'll take dating. 

That doesn't make dating "normal". Dating is a rather modern innovation. By the way, what makes you think you weren't "selected"?

Arranged marriage is ideal.

So two people who hate each other and are incompatible should be forced to marry because their parents made some sort of deal?

What makes you think that is how arranged marriage works? I think you have seen "Coming to America" too many times. Was your first job in the Ukraine at McDowell's?

I'd never even heard of the movie until now.  Then how does arranged marriage work? 

It varies according to culture. In Japan, the form I am most familiar with, a marriageable person submits themselves to an intermediary who handles introductions and selection of candidates. No one is forced to do anything.


Offline Νεκτάριος

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,437
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #149 on: March 05, 2012, 11:55:28 AM »
There is a huge difference between normal dating and relationships than "I'm going to Russia to pick me out a woman". 

What makes you think that dating is "normal"?

The other options are an arranged marriage or treating women as a commodity to be purchased / selected.  Given the options, I'll take dating. 

That doesn't make dating "normal". Dating is a rather modern innovation. By the way, what makes you think you weren't "selected"?

Arranged marriage is ideal.

So two people who hate each other and are incompatible should be forced to marry because their parents made some sort of deal?

What makes you think that is how arranged marriage works? I think you have seen "Coming to America" too many times. Was your first job in the Ukraine at McDowell's?

I'd never even heard of the movie until now.  Then how does arranged marriage work? 

It varies according to culture. In Japan, the form I am most familiar with, a marriageable person submits themselves to an intermediary who handles introductions and selection of candidates. No one is forced to do anything.

Which is then dating.  It is a semantic difference.   Even if a friend / relative / whoever introduces you to someone, you do eventually go through some process of dating. 

Offline Sauron

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 844
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #150 on: March 05, 2012, 12:03:50 PM »
There is a huge difference between normal dating and relationships than "I'm going to Russia to pick me out a woman". 

What makes you think that dating is "normal"?

The other options are an arranged marriage or treating women as a commodity to be purchased / selected.  Given the options, I'll take dating. 

That doesn't make dating "normal". Dating is a rather modern innovation. By the way, what makes you think you weren't "selected"?

Arranged marriage is ideal.

So two people who hate each other and are incompatible should be forced to marry because their parents made some sort of deal?

What makes you think that is how arranged marriage works? I think you have seen "Coming to America" too many times. Was your first job in the Ukraine at McDowell's?

I'd never even heard of the movie until now.  Then how does arranged marriage work? 

It varies according to culture. In Japan, the form I am most familiar with, a marriageable person submits themselves to an intermediary who handles introductions and selection of candidates. No one is forced to do anything.

Which is then dating.  It is a semantic difference.   Even if a friend / relative / whoever introduces you to someone, you do eventually go through some process of dating. 

I appreciate you declaring a mere semantic difference regarding a cultural practice you first heard of 10 minutes ago. However, there is certainly a difference between お見合い結婚 (arranged marriage) and 恋愛結婚 (so-called "love" marriages). If it were a distinction without a difference, I do not suspect that they should have different divorce rates, but arranged couples have much lower divorce rates than "love marriage" couples. (a prime reason I support arranged marriage)



Offline Νεκτάριος

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,437
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #151 on: March 05, 2012, 12:09:53 PM »
There is a huge difference between normal dating and relationships than "I'm going to Russia to pick me out a woman". 

What makes you think that dating is "normal"?

The other options are an arranged marriage or treating women as a commodity to be purchased / selected.  Given the options, I'll take dating. 

That doesn't make dating "normal". Dating is a rather modern innovation. By the way, what makes you think you weren't "selected"?

Arranged marriage is ideal.

So two people who hate each other and are incompatible should be forced to marry because their parents made some sort of deal?

What makes you think that is how arranged marriage works? I think you have seen "Coming to America" too many times. Was your first job in the Ukraine at McDowell's?

I'd never even heard of the movie until now.  Then how does arranged marriage work? 

It varies according to culture. In Japan, the form I am most familiar with, a marriageable person submits themselves to an intermediary who handles introductions and selection of candidates. No one is forced to do anything.

Which is then dating.  It is a semantic difference.   Even if a friend / relative / whoever introduces you to someone, you do eventually go through some process of dating. 

I appreciate you declaring a mere semantic difference regarding a cultural practice you first heard of 10 minutes ago. However, there is certainly a difference between お見合い結婚 (arranged marriage) and 恋愛結婚 (so-called "love" marriages). If it were a distinction without a difference, I do not suspect that they should have different divorce rates, but arranged couples have much lower divorce rates than "love marriage" couples. (a prime reason I support arranged marriage)

Either way dating is a broad term and I didn't mean go to the night club, get drunk and see who you can find.  Statistics are also misleading re: divorce.  In some places that I've seen with nearly arranged type marriages divorce is very rare, but it is understood that people have mistresses.  Ultimately, I don't disagree that using mutual friends and other to introduce you to someone is a good idea. 

Offline Melodist

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,522
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #152 on: March 05, 2012, 12:12:19 PM »
I will state an observation from personal experience. The last time I asked a girl out on a date, it was a disaster. The last time I was set up with someone, while it didn't work out, it was the longest and strongest relationship I've been in.
And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

Made Perfect in Weakness - Latest Post: The Son of God

Offline Sauron

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 844
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #153 on: March 05, 2012, 12:14:55 PM »
There is a huge difference between normal dating and relationships than "I'm going to Russia to pick me out a woman". 

What makes you think that dating is "normal"?

The other options are an arranged marriage or treating women as a commodity to be purchased / selected.  Given the options, I'll take dating. 

That doesn't make dating "normal". Dating is a rather modern innovation. By the way, what makes you think you weren't "selected"?

Arranged marriage is ideal.

So two people who hate each other and are incompatible should be forced to marry because their parents made some sort of deal?

What makes you think that is how arranged marriage works? I think you have seen "Coming to America" too many times. Was your first job in the Ukraine at McDowell's?

I'd never even heard of the movie until now.  Then how does arranged marriage work? 

It varies according to culture. In Japan, the form I am most familiar with, a marriageable person submits themselves to an intermediary who handles introductions and selection of candidates. No one is forced to do anything.

Which is then dating.  It is a semantic difference.   Even if a friend / relative / whoever introduces you to someone, you do eventually go through some process of dating. 

I appreciate you declaring a mere semantic difference regarding a cultural practice you first heard of 10 minutes ago. However, there is certainly a difference between お見合い結婚 (arranged marriage) and 恋愛結婚 (so-called "love" marriages). If it were a distinction without a difference, I do not suspect that they should have different divorce rates, but arranged couples have much lower divorce rates than "love marriage" couples. (a prime reason I support arranged marriage)

Either way dating is a broad term and I didn't mean go to the night club, get drunk and see who you can find.  Statistics are also misleading re: divorce.  In some places that I've seen with nearly arranged type marriages divorce is very rare, but it is understood that people have mistresses.  Ultimately, I don't disagree that using mutual friends and other to introduce you to someone is a good idea. 

That is fair. I think it many respects it is accurate to refer to match.com and other such websites as facilitating arranged marriages.

Speaking anecdotally, my in-laws were an arranged couple. My mother-in-law died on New Year's Eve 1999 (this is basically like dying on Christmas Eve in the West) and my father-in-law has never even looked at another woman, let alone remarried. More empirically, arranged couples generally report more affection for each other than "love" couples.


Offline vamrat

  • Vamratoraptor
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,462
  • Faith: Serbian Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of New Gracanica
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #154 on: March 05, 2012, 02:35:04 PM »
There is a huge difference between normal dating and relationships than "I'm going to Russia to pick me out a woman".  

What makes you think that dating is "normal"?

The other options are an arranged marriage or treating women as a commodity to be purchased / selected.  Given the options, I'll take dating.  

That doesn't make dating "normal". Dating is a rather modern innovation. By the way, what makes you think you weren't "selected"?

Arranged marriage is ideal.

So two people who hate each other and are incompatible should be forced to marry because their parents made some sort of deal?

What makes you think that is how arranged marriage works? I think you have seen "Coming to America" too many times. Was your first job in the Ukraine at McDowell's?

I'd never even heard of the movie until now.  Then how does arranged marriage work?  

It varies according to culture. In Japan, the form I am most familiar with, a marriageable person submits themselves to an intermediary who handles introductions and selection of candidates. No one is forced to do anything.

Which is then dating.  It is a semantic difference.   Even if a friend / relative / whoever introduces you to someone, you do eventually go through some process of dating.  

I appreciate you declaring a mere semantic difference regarding a cultural practice you first heard of 10 minutes ago. However, there is certainly a difference between お見合い結婚 (arranged marriage) and 恋愛結婚 (so-called "love" marriages). If it were a distinction without a difference, I do not suspect that they should have different divorce rates, but arranged couples have much lower divorce rates than "love marriage" couples. (a prime reason I support arranged marriage)

Either way dating is a broad term and I didn't mean go to the night club, get drunk and see who you can find.  Statistics are also misleading re: divorce.  In some places that I've seen with nearly arranged type marriages divorce is very rare, but it is understood that people have mistresses.  Ultimately, I don't disagree that using mutual friends and other to introduce you to someone is a good idea.  

That is fair. I think it many respects it is accurate to refer to match.com and other such websites as facilitating arranged marriages.

Speaking anecdotally, my in-laws were an arranged couple. My mother-in-law died on New Year's Eve 1999 (this is basically like dying on Christmas Eve in the West) and my father-in-law has never even looked at another woman, let alone remarried. More empirically, arranged couples generally report more affection for each other than "love" couples.



This is probably because "love" is more often infatuation.  The cute butt and charming personality will go away.  There needs to be more if a relationship is going to work.  One advantage of using a match-maker or some form of arranged relationship is that you can have people who know you both see if it is going to work or not without having any of the emotional blinders on.  With online dating this is taken to a further level where a machine will often gauge your personalities and give you an idea of compatibility up front.

One problem with just looking around for someone in person is that timing has a lot to do with it.  Perhaps the other person isn't interested in dating, or whatever.  The advantage with arranged or semi-arranged relationships is that more than likely both parties are looking for a relationship.  I certainly think online dating is a semi-arranged relationship, and while it is still dating to some extent, I think it definitely falls under a different category than finding a girl at the bar, or falling in love with a friend.  The dynamic is probably closer to what it was for couples brought together by a match-maker back in the day.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 02:37:01 PM by vamrat »
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline Sauron

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 844
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #155 on: March 05, 2012, 02:48:00 PM »
This is probably because "love" is more often infatuation.  The cute butt and charming personality will go away.  There needs to be more if a relationship is going to work.  One advantage of using a match-maker or some form of arranged relationship is that you can have people who know you both see if it is going to work or not without having any of the emotional blinders on.  With online dating this is taken to a further level where a machine will often gauge your personalities and give you an idea of compatibility up front.

One problem with just looking around for someone in person is that timing has a lot to do with it.  Perhaps the other person isn't interested in dating, or whatever.  The advantage with arranged or semi-arranged relationships is that more than likely both parties are looking for a relationship.  I certainly think online dating is a semi-arranged relationship, and while it is still dating to some extent, I think it definitely falls under a different category than finding a girl at the bar, or falling in love with a friend.  The dynamic is probably closer to what it was for couples brought together by a match-maker back in the day.

I think you are exactly right. The gushy feelings go away and then all of the sudden, someone is not haaaaaaaaaaaappppppppy and then the papers get served.


Offline JamesR

  • The Second Coming of Jason
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,913
  • Remember me?
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #156 on: March 05, 2012, 04:25:07 PM »
There is a huge difference between normal dating and relationships than "I'm going to Russia to pick me out a woman". 

I think that your perception would be a bit different if you seen what women are like on the other side of the curtain. Either way, it is not like I planned on going out to some foreign country, getting drunk in a bar and taking the first women I see. I rather planned on going out to Russia/Ukraine, learning a bit about the culture, hopefully participating in some slavic worship and then respectfully date a woman I meet who shares the same interests. Then hopefully that would lead to marriage.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 04:29:27 PM by JamesR »

Offline stanley123

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,811
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #157 on: March 05, 2012, 04:38:21 PM »
I will state an observation from personal experience. The last time I asked a girl out on a date, it was a disaster. The last time I was set up with someone, while it didn't work out, it was the longest and strongest relationship I've been in.
Sometimes marriages arranged by the families involved work out better than finding a mate on your own.

Offline Sauron

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 844
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #158 on: March 05, 2012, 04:58:44 PM »
There is a huge difference between normal dating and relationships than "I'm going to Russia to pick me out a woman". 

I think that your perception would be a bit different if you seen what women are like on the other side of the curtain. Either way, it is not like I planned on going out to some foreign country, getting drunk in a bar and taking the first women I see. I rather planned on going out to Russia/Ukraine, learning a bit about the culture, hopefully participating in some slavic worship and then respectfully date a woman I meet who shares the same interests. Then hopefully that would lead to marriage.

I truly wish you the best in your endeavors. I did not marry American for a reason.


Offline JamesR

  • The Second Coming of Jason
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,913
  • Remember me?
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #159 on: March 05, 2012, 05:10:04 PM »
I did not marry American for a reason.

Consider yourself lucky. You would be amazed if you knew how much American women constantly want to divorce you at every little moment and take half of your stuff whenever you show even the slightest discontent with their behavior or make them angry. I blame American feminism for this. Hating to stereotype again, but I've noticed that women in the slavic lands seem to have found the balance between independence and traditionalism. Whereas in America, feminism is still in its adolescence and consists in acting out and being irresponsible for shock value.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 05:11:53 PM by JamesR »

Offline Νεκτάριος

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,437
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #160 on: March 05, 2012, 05:19:33 PM »
I did not marry American for a reason.

Consider yourself lucky. You would be amazed if you knew how much American women constantly want to divorce you at every little moment and take half of your stuff whenever you show even the slightest discontent with their behavior or make them angry. I blame American feminism for this. Hating to stereotype again, but I've noticed that women in the slavic lands seem to have found the balance between independence and traditionalism. Whereas in America, feminism is still in its adolescence and consists in acting out and being irresponsible for shock value.

Good grief.  How do you have any real idea what women in "Slavic lands" are like?   You have a romanticized ideal with which you have no practical experience.  Women are individuals, not a commodity.  It sounds like you are picking out a breed of dog based on behavioral traits. 

Offline Sauron

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 844
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #161 on: March 05, 2012, 05:29:38 PM »
I did not marry American for a reason.

Consider yourself lucky. You would be amazed if you knew how much American women constantly want to divorce you at every little moment and take half of your stuff whenever you show even the slightest discontent with their behavior or make them angry. I blame American feminism for this. Hating to stereotype again, but I've noticed that women in the slavic lands seem to have found the balance between independence and traditionalism. Whereas in America, feminism is still in its adolescence and consists in acting out and being irresponsible for shock value.

Good grief.  How do you have any real idea what women in "Slavic lands" are like?   You have a romanticized ideal with which you have no practical experience.  Women are individuals, not a commodity.  It sounds like you are picking out a breed of dog based on behavioral traits. 

Anything wrong with that? People who share a culture tend to share behavioral traits. Don't you remember your comments regarding Americans in the paleo fasting thread?


Offline biro

  • Site Supporter
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,768
  • Excelsior
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #162 on: March 05, 2012, 05:31:31 PM »
I did not marry American for a reason.

Consider yourself lucky. You would be amazed if you knew how much American women constantly want to divorce you at every little moment and take half of your stuff whenever you show even the slightest discontent with their behavior or make them angry. I blame American feminism for this. Hating to stereotype again, but I've noticed that women in the slavic lands seem to have found the balance between independence and traditionalism. Whereas in America, feminism is still in its adolescence and consists in acting out and being irresponsible for shock value.

Oops. My parents have been married for 43 years.

You lose.
My only weakness is, well, never mind

Offline JamesR

  • The Second Coming of Jason
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,913
  • Remember me?
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #163 on: March 05, 2012, 05:32:18 PM »
Good grief.  How do you have any real idea what women in "Slavic lands" are like?

Talking to the several immigrants in my parish who happen to be slavic women.   

Quote
You have a romanticized ideal with which you have no practical experience...It sounds like you are picking out a breed of dog based on behavioral traits. 

Are you not doing the same thing by assuming that all westerners are evil sex tourists?

Offline Νεκτάριος

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,437
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #164 on: March 05, 2012, 05:44:16 PM »
I did not marry American for a reason.

Consider yourself lucky. You would be amazed if you knew how much American women constantly want to divorce you at every little moment and take half of your stuff whenever you show even the slightest discontent with their behavior or make them angry. I blame American feminism for this. Hating to stereotype again, but I've noticed that women in the slavic lands seem to have found the balance between independence and traditionalism. Whereas in America, feminism is still in its adolescence and consists in acting out and being irresponsible for shock value.

Good grief.  How do you have any real idea what women in "Slavic lands" are like?   You have a romanticized ideal with which you have no practical experience.  Women are individuals, not a commodity.  It sounds like you are picking out a breed of dog based on behavioral traits.  

Anything wrong with that? People who share a culture tend to share behavioral traits. Don't you remember your comments regarding Americans in the paleo fasting thread?

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that I'm a bit more familiar with American culture than James, who admits to talking a few people at his parish, is of Slavic culture. 

Good grief.  How do you have any real idea what women in "Slavic lands" are like?

Talking to the several immigrants in my parish who happen to be slavic women.

To give you an idea something less than 5% of the population attends liturgy here.  Do you really think talking to a few people at your parish really is representative of the culture?  Sure there are wonderful Slavic women, but there are also great American women.  There are bad apples in both groups.  

Are you not doing the same thing by assuming that all westerners are evil sex tourists?

I hardly think that all Westerners are sex tourists, rather I simply think the ones who say they are coming for the purpose of sex are.  
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 05:44:53 PM by Νεκτάριος »

Offline JamesR

  • The Second Coming of Jason
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,913
  • Remember me?
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #165 on: March 05, 2012, 05:50:26 PM »
To give you an idea something less than 5% of the population attends liturgy here.  Do you really think talking to a few people at your parish really is representative of the culture?  Sure there are wonderful Slavic women, but there are also great American women.  There are bad apples in both groups.

Less than 5 percent? Hell, that is an improvement for me. Did you know that in North America less than 2 percent of the population is Eastern Orthodox, and that is including the members who barely attend Church and are not even active. The number of attending, active Orthodox is even less. While I do not think that talking to a few people is an entire representative of the culture, I do think that I can at least learn a little bit about the culture, albeit on an elementary level. Which is why I am not planning on living solely off of what I learn from them, but what I learn from them along with what I learn from classes and what I will learn firsthand from being out there if I ever somehow can visit.

Quote
I hardly think that all Westerners are sex tourists, rather I simply think the ones who say they are coming for the purpose of sex are.

I'm not a sex tourist, in fact, I barely turned sixteen. I never wanted to offend you in the past, and I have tried apologizing many times if I have, and I apologize again and will try to be more sensitive and less ignorant, however, I do not take kindly to you accusing me of being a sex tourist all of the time when I made it very clear that there were many other reasons why I would love to visit the slavic lands.

Offline Νεκτάριος

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,437
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #166 on: March 05, 2012, 05:55:09 PM »
James, I'm glad that you don't see Slavic women as some sort of commodity to obtain.   I honestly wish you the best on your endeavors.  I do think you'll be surprised that this isn't some sort of Orthodox paradise.  The struggles to make a relationship work are the same whether you are in America or Ukraine. 

Offline biro

  • Site Supporter
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,768
  • Excelsior
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #167 on: March 05, 2012, 05:55:29 PM »
He's sixteen, and he's telling us all about women.

Oh, great.  :P   >:( :-X ??? ::)

As someone who actually is a woman from America, I'd like to say many possible things at this point, but they have rules on this forum.

I'll stop before I make it worse.
My only weakness is, well, never mind

Offline JamesR

  • The Second Coming of Jason
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,913
  • Remember me?
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #168 on: March 05, 2012, 06:03:49 PM »
I do think you'll be surprised that this isn't some sort of Orthodox paradise.

I already know that it is not. While I may be ignorant on the exact details and what it feels like entirely, the precise reason I want to come is not because it is an Orthodox paradise, but because it is an Orthodox paradise buried under so much misery and hardship, which, I would like to share in. I do not like the separation between the Orthodox Christians in the west and east, I think that if one of us struggles then the other should too, and if one is happy, then so should the other be happy. I just want to do my part and struggle with my brothers in the east, and hope that some day they can also rejoice in the pleasures of the west.

Quote
The struggles to make a relationship work are the same whether you are in America or Ukraine. 

I will remember that

Offline Νεκτάριος

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,437
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #169 on: March 05, 2012, 06:12:48 PM »
I do think you'll be surprised that this isn't some sort of Orthodox paradise.

I already know that it is not. While I may be ignorant on the exact details and what it feels like entirely, the precise reason I want to come is not because it is an Orthodox paradise, but because it is an Orthodox paradise buried under so much misery and hardship, which, I would like to share in. I do not like the separation between the Orthodox Christians in the west and east, I think that if one of us struggles then the other should too, and if one is happy, then so should the other be happy. I just want to do my part and struggle with my brothers in the east, and hope that some day they can also rejoice in the pleasures of the west.

Out of curiosity what do you plan to be able to offer to Slavic society? 

Offline vamrat

  • Vamratoraptor
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,462
  • Faith: Serbian Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of New Gracanica
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #170 on: March 05, 2012, 06:13:03 PM »
He's sixteen, and he's telling us all about women.

Oh, great.  :P   >:( :-X ??? ::)

As someone who actually is a woman from America, I'd like to say many possible things at this point, but they have rules on this forum.

I'll stop before I make it worse.

Don't be too hard on him.  James has some growing to do, but it looks like the kid has ideals.  I remember what those were like.  I am cynical and fatalistic now, but I still remember idealism with a degree of fondness.  
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline JamesR

  • The Second Coming of Jason
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,913
  • Remember me?
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #171 on: March 05, 2012, 06:18:10 PM »
Out of curiosity what do you plan to be able to offer to Slavic society? 

From a practical standpoint, English lessons and knowledge about the western world. From a personal, more ambitious standpoint, western money for charity and restoration. My biggest career goal is to make music in the western world for money and help my community with the cash I make. I've taken several classes and visited many colleges and institutes to learn about poetry and music production. I know that you may not understand, but to me, and much of the lower class youth in the western world, music is seen as the one way to escape and make it big into the world, especially with influental figures like Tupac Shakur who rose from the very bottom of society up to the very top and gave so much back to his community. My ambition is similar, but to help the people suffering in the east with my western resources. If I can make it big in the western world, then I can use the resources to help the eastern world.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 06:21:41 PM by JamesR »

Offline vamrat

  • Vamratoraptor
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,462
  • Faith: Serbian Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of New Gracanica
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #172 on: March 05, 2012, 06:27:50 PM »
Out of curiosity what do you plan to be able to offer to Slavic society? 

From a practical standpoint, English lessons and knowledge about the western world. From a personal, more ambitious standpoint, western money for charity and restoration. My biggest career goal is to make music in the western world for money and help my community with the cash I make. I've taken several classes and visited many colleges and institutes to learn about poetry and music production. I know that you may not understand, but to me, and much of the lower class youth in the western world, music is seen as the one way to escape and make it big into the world, especially with influental figures like Tupac Shakur who rose from the very bottom of society up to the very top and gave so much back to his community. My ambition is similar, but to help the people suffering in the east with my western resources. If I can make it big in the western world, then I can use the resources to help the eastern world.

Learn a skill.  You'll do a lot better.  The power of music is cool and all, but the power of nuclear fusion is more useful in the long run.  Though, teaching language might be useful.  Most of the good Russian teachers I've met here have been Russian or Ukrainian, so I'd guess the opposite would also be true.  You might consider getting a degree in Russian, get good at it, then go over there as a teacher.

Alternately, anyone who can figure out how to do agricultural transportation in Russia will become rich.  Then you can pass half of that on to the government, and will still have half left to help better your adopted people.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline JamesR

  • The Second Coming of Jason
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,913
  • Remember me?
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #173 on: March 05, 2012, 06:35:41 PM »
Learn a skill.  You'll do a lot better.  The power of music is cool and all, but the power of nuclear fusion is more useful in the long run.  Though, teaching language might be useful.  Most of the good Russian teachers I've met here have been Russian or Ukrainian, so I'd guess the opposite would also be true.  You might consider getting a degree in Russian, get good at it, then go over there as a teacher.

Alternately, anyone who can figure out how to do agricultural transportation in Russia will become rich.  Then you can pass half of that on to the government, and will still have half left to help better your adopted people.

I really appreciate your advice, but are you sure that these ideas are better? I was always under the impression that western currency is more valuable than eastern currency (excuse the umbrella term) so I figured that if I can make western currency, then I will be able to give more to the eastern world than if I worked for eastern currency. What I am concerned about is the output; which method will give me the most resources I can give to the people in the east? Will working with nuclear fusion really give me more currency than if I were a famous musician in the western world? If so, I will take that up in a minute, but I plan to stick with whatever will give me the largest output in the long run to help the people in the east.

Offline vamrat

  • Vamratoraptor
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,462
  • Faith: Serbian Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of New Gracanica
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #174 on: March 05, 2012, 06:51:06 PM »
Learn a skill.  You'll do a lot better.  The power of music is cool and all, but the power of nuclear fusion is more useful in the long run.  Though, teaching language might be useful.  Most of the good Russian teachers I've met here have been Russian or Ukrainian, so I'd guess the opposite would also be true.  You might consider getting a degree in Russian, get good at it, then go over there as a teacher.

Alternately, anyone who can figure out how to do agricultural transportation in Russia will become rich.  Then you can pass half of that on to the government, and will still have half left to help better your adopted people.

I really appreciate your advice, but are you sure that these ideas are better? I was always under the impression that western currency is more valuable than eastern currency (excuse the umbrella term) so I figured that if I can make western currency, then I will be able to give more to the eastern world than if I worked for eastern currency. What I am concerned about is the output; which method will give me the most resources I can give to the people in the east? Will working with nuclear fusion really give me more currency than if I were a famous musician in the western world? If so, I will take that up in a minute, but I plan to stick with whatever will give me the largest output in the long run to help the people in the east.

The number of musicians who are wildly successful is very low in comparison to the number of nuclear technicians who are mildly successful.  If you are ever looking for advice on life, keep in mind that attrition is almost always the answer.   ;)
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline William

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,359
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #175 on: March 05, 2012, 09:26:50 PM »
He's sixteen, and he's telling us all about women.

Oh, great.  :P   >:( :-X ??? ::)

As someone who actually is a woman from America, I'd like to say many possible things at this point, but they have rules on this forum.

I'll stop before I make it worse.

biro, don't be too hard on James. He's kind of naive, yeah, but we all are about something or another.  :P Plus he has a bit of an excuse. The women he's been involved with have been kind of abnormal. He can disclose more information if he wishes.

I'd prefer to date an American woman, because I'm not completely Americanophobic. Who knows, maybe the fact that the USA has so many converts to Orthodoxy is proof that all of us Murcans aren't as evil as we're supposed to be.
Cursed be he that doeth the work of the LORD deceitfully, and cursed be he that keepeth back his sword from blood.

Offline JamesR

  • The Second Coming of Jason
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,913
  • Remember me?
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #176 on: March 06, 2012, 02:09:47 AM »
The women he's been involved with have been kind of abnormal. He can disclose more information if he wishes.

He is right :-( She was horrible. I really loved her, she was my first crush and my best friend, I was always there for her and we have been through a lot, yet, she backstabbed me so many times. One time she wouldn't go places with me in public because she was worried about what her friends would think, and recently she confided in me that she was cutting herself and contemplating suicide, and I told her parents to help her because I cared then she didn't talk to me for like six months. As if this is not enough, she used me to spy on people for her and would make me stay up until 4:00AM hearing her cry to me on the phone and through IM, even though she was backstabbing me and would ignore me whenever I had a problem. I did so much for her and she took so much advantage of me and treated me so badly :(

Offline Νεκτάριος

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,437
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #177 on: March 06, 2012, 06:00:41 AM »
Is Biro the only person with a lick of sense here?

James, ONE bad relationship doesn't give you the right to go off on misogynist rants about American women.  Carrying such hatred does real psychological harm to you.  How do you think you can have normal relationships with American women (and I mean just colleagues, general people) if you harbor such feelings?  It's not healthy.  Forgive and get on with life.  There are therapeutic things to help - spend an evening splitting a bottle of vodka with a good friend and talking it out.  In your case that wouldn't be appropriate, but you can find some sort of substitute - running, music, etc.  After you get everything out, get on with life.  BTW - as someone who knows both American and Ukrainian culture, the dating / relationship scene in America is child's play compared to Ukraine.  Prepare to get eaten alive. 

I know you don't mean to sound offensive, but really you want to help "us" by playing your guitar and giving us money.  You do realize that is insulting, right?  I've seen so many cases of idealistic Americans who can't even feed themselves or do the most basic social functions go abroad to help the poor natives.  It is insulting. 

BTW, this Thursday is a huge holiday in Ukraine and Russia.  Make sure you get the ladies at your parish some chocolates.       

Offline JamesR

  • The Second Coming of Jason
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,913
  • Remember me?
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #178 on: March 06, 2012, 06:58:03 AM »
James, ONE bad relationship doesn't give you the right to go off on misogynist rants about American women.  Carrying such hatred does real psychological harm to you.  How do you think you can have normal relationships with American women (and I mean just colleagues, general people) if you harbor such feelings?  It's not healthy.  Forgive and get on with life.  There are therapeutic things to help - spend an evening splitting a bottle of vodka with a good friend and talking it out.  In your case that wouldn't be appropriate, but you can find some sort of substitute - running, music, etc.  After you get everything out, get on with life.  BTW - as someone who knows both American and Ukrainian culture, the dating / relationship scene in America is child's play compared to Ukraine.  Prepare to get eaten alive.

In other words, I have to get over this unhealthy psychological condition of hatred and stereotyping, and if it ever so happens that I become involved in the dating world of Ukraine, I need to toughen up and learn? I'll try my very best. I have so much to learn, and so little time. But, I have the will to learn.

Quote
I know you don't mean to sound offensive, but really you want to help "us" by playing your guitar and giving us money.  You do realize that is insulting, right?  I've seen so many cases of idealistic Americans who can't even feed themselves or do the most basic social functions go abroad to help the poor natives.  It is insulting.

I can see where you are coming from and I apologize for indirectly being offensive again, and while I may have faith in a talent I possess that may seem worthless, I promise that I will not ever come over until/unless I learn some useful habit or develop some really useful, important way that can turly benefit the people rather than a dream when I am really broke. I know it sounds stupid, but I would love to be like Bob Marley, bringing public attention to all of the issues faced in parts of the world that are generally ignored by the west. I know that this is unlikely, so, I will try to learn something useful and practical that can be beneficial to both myself and people over in the east.

Quote
BTW, this Thursday is a huge holiday in Ukraine and Russia.  Make sure you get the ladies at your parish some chocolates.       

Milk chocolate or dark chocolate? And are there any tips you have for me when presenting it to them so that I do not accidently offend them or give off the wrong message if I somehow screw up and make a mistake?

Offline Sauron

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 844
Re: Do you cook?
« Reply #179 on: March 06, 2012, 10:19:53 AM »
He's sixteen, and he's telling us all about women.

Oh, great.  :P   >:( :-X ??? ::)

As someone who actually is a woman from America, I'd like to say many possible things at this point, but they have rules on this forum.

I'll stop before I make it worse.

You may wish to evaluate whether the things you would like to say are part of the reason why an increasing number of American men, including me and JamesR, are looking outside our borders when choosing a mate.