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Author Topic: 2012 consciousness shift  (Read 2774 times) Average Rating: 0
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neon_knights
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« on: October 15, 2011, 09:18:13 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pedoqyfLgRk&feature=channel_video_title

This video talks about the theory popular among New Age theorists that 2012 will bring forth a "consciousness shift" in human beings. Around 3:45, he begins talking about how he thinks the world will end. He says there will be a period of time that will be set up to look like the Biblical end of the world, and there will be a man who is set up to seem like the Biblical antichrist. He then says that that "antichrist" will be defeated by an "alien" claiming to be of the same
"Christ consciousness" that Buddha, Krishna, and Jesus supposedly possessed. He says that many of the "Institutional churches" (ie, Catholicism and Orthodoxy) will believe this man to be Christ. He says that this supposed Christ will claim that the Bible is wrong, and that the world will begin to worship him through a chip or some other technology. He then goes on in the next video to explain how "true" Christians will be the victim of a mass genocide.

What are your views on this? Do you think that the year 2012 will be the beginning of a supposed consciousness change? If there is a supposed false Christ who will come, do you think that Catholic and Orthodox leaders will fall for his tricks, as the man who made the video implies? Please only serious answers.
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« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2011, 09:19:32 PM »

Please only serious answers.
Are you serious? Roll Eyes
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« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2011, 09:26:45 PM »

The New Agers don't understand how the Mayan calendar works and misinterpreted it. There's nothing more to talk about- it's a waste of time. Move along.
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« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2011, 09:31:03 PM »

OK, but seriously....

All this 2012 talk comes from Mayan calendar systems, in which 2012 is the end of an era, not the "end of the world":

The name for a Mayan epoch (or "long count") apparently translates as 13 bactuns, which you can see is 13 times 144000 days or 5125.26 years (roughly). There is actually some minor disagreement over when the current Mayan long cycle started, but it was probably either August 11th or 13th 3114 BC, which means it comes to an end on either Dec 21st or 23rd 2012.

As I mentioned above the Mayan calendar was designed to be cyclical, so the fact that the long count comes to an end in Dec 2012, while having some significance for the Maya as the end of a great cycle (much like we celebrated the millennium (incorrectly as it happens) on Dec 31st 1999), does not mean that the "world will come to an end". It's actually true that there are Mayan names for periods of time longer than 13 bactuns, so that their calendar doesn't even end then, and even if it did there is no evidence to suggest that they (or anyone for that matter) have any special knowledge about the end of the world.


However, it is true that the Winter solstice (21 December) of 2012 will see the Sun transit between Earth and the Galaxy Center, but that is also true for the past several hundred years.
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« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2011, 09:34:53 PM »

Alright, I have to get my real point clear.

The real question that I was asking is: If there were to be a false antichrist, then a false Christ that comes after him who is the REAL antichrist, will the Orthodox leaders accept this person as Christ?
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« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2011, 09:37:27 PM »

The Mayan civilization was so adept at predicting the future, that it got wiped out! Wait a second...  Huh
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« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2011, 09:37:49 PM »

I don't think there's much to worry about...  Cool
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« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2011, 09:39:26 PM »

The Mayan civilization was so adept at predicting the future, that it got wiped out! Wait a second...  Huh

Perhaps you were unaware that Mayan people live on in Belize, Guatemala, etc... waiting... waiting...   Wink
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« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2011, 09:41:31 PM »

Sure, and they're living the same way they did thousands of years ago.  Roll Eyes

Learn how to read for meaning.
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« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2011, 09:44:28 PM »

Alright, I have to get my real point clear.

The real question that I was asking is: If there were to be a false antichrist, then a false Christ that comes after him who is the REAL antichrist, will the Orthodox leaders accept this person as Christ?

Bumping this point. Im not saying that anything will happen in 2012, what Im really asking is this.
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« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2011, 09:45:22 PM »

You've got to be kidding.
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« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2011, 09:47:35 PM »

Sure, and they're living the same way they did thousands of years ago.  Roll Eyes

Learn how to read for meaning.

What do you mean? It's not like the modern mayans are a stone age people (like their ancestors), but on the other hand they have continued many traditions.

Also, they weren't "wiped out"--if you want to call it that--till about 320 years ago, so you don't really have to go back "thousands of years".

I'm being puprosely-unconsciously obtuse.  Grin

What?
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« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2011, 09:47:42 PM »

I don't think you should be mocked for asking this question. It is a legitimate question and we should be aware of these deceptive and unOrthodox theories so that we can accurately refute them. However, some answers are very simple. And the simple answer is that we should not indulge such unOrthodox speculations. We await the return of Our Lord, and He Himself clearly said that no one knows the day or the hour. But we do sight the signs of the times, and we do know that the end is near. And we also know that Our Lord will come like lightning from the east, and as a thief in the night. So let us be watchful, sober, prayerful, and alert. But let us not be deceived by worldly rumors and pseudo-spiritul theories that purport to tell us how and when the world will end, change, or be "renewed".


"Lord have mercy."


Selam


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« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2011, 09:49:43 PM »

Sure, and they're living the same way they did thousands of years ago.  Roll Eyes

Learn how to read for meaning.

What do you mean? It's not like the modern mayans are a stone age people (like their ancestors), but on the other hand they have continued many traditions.

Also, they weren't "wiped out"--if you want to call it that--till about 320 years ago, so you don't really have to go back "thousands of years".

I'm being puprosely-unconsciously obtuse.  Grin

What?

No, you're being annoying and patronizing.

Clearly I was referring to the ancient culture, because that is what people who believe in the Mayan calendar crap are referring to.

Another person I can't talk to anymore.
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« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2011, 09:53:04 PM »

I don't think you should be mocked for asking this question. It is a legitimate question and we should be aware of these deceptive and unOrthodox theories so that we can accurately refute them. However, some answers are very simple. And the simple answer is that we should not indulge such unOrthodox speculations. We await the return of Our Lord, and He Himself clearly said that no one knows the day or the hour. But we do sight the signs of the times, and we do know that the end is near. And we also know that Our Lord will come like lightning from the east, and as a thief in the night. So let us be watchful, sober, prayerful, and alert. But let us not be deceived by worldly rumors and pseudo-spiritul theories that purport to tell us how and when the world will end, change, or be "renewed".


"Lord have mercy."


Selam



^^^ what he said
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« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2011, 09:55:44 PM »

I don't think you should be mocked for asking this question. It is a legitimate question and we should be aware of these deceptive and unOrthodox theories so that we can accurately refute them. However, some answers are very simple. And the simple answer is that we should not indulge such unOrthodox speculations. We await the return of Our Lord, and He Himself clearly said that no one knows the day or the hour. But we do sight the signs of the times, and we do know that the end is near. And we also know that Our Lord will come like lightning from the east, and as a thief in the night. So let us be watchful, sober, prayerful, and alert. But let us not be deceived by worldly rumors and pseudo-spiritul theories that purport to tell us how and when the world will end, change, or be "renewed".


"Lord have mercy."


Selam




I agree, we have to be watchful, and the teaching of a 2012 consciousness change is very unorthodox. That is also what the video I posted says. The man in this video is an Evangelical Protestant probably, and he thinks that there will be a false antichrist, then a person who wipes out that false antichrist who claims to be God, yet is the real antichrist. He says that the Orthodox and Catholic churches will fall for the lies of the real antichrist in the end of the age. The question I was trying to ask is, will Orthodox and Catholic leaders fall for this? The man who made the video seems very intelligent and seems to know his stuff. Some of his other videos are really great apologetics.
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« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2011, 09:55:52 PM »

Alright, I have to get my real point clear.

The real question that I was asking is: If there were to be a false antichrist, then a false Christ that comes after him who is the REAL antichrist, will the Orthodox leaders accept this person as Christ?

Bumping this point. Im not saying that anything will happen in 2012, what Im really asking is this.


This is merely my own opinion, FWIW:  

I have no doubt that some - perhaps many - ostensible Orthodox leaders will be deceived by this Antichrist. However, the real Orthodox leaders will not be fooled. In the age of Antichrist, we will begin to see the wheat separated from the tares. I suspect that many of those in ecclesiastical authority will fall prey to the Antichrist's wiles, while monks and humble laity may provide the authentic Orthodox leadership that we will truly need. That being said, I do trust that we have sound Orthodox Priests and Bishops who will stand firm unto death. Let us pray for them!


"Lord have mercy."


Selam
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« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2011, 10:01:42 PM »

It is interesting that the Jewish calendar starts around 3760 BC, the current Mayan era starts 3114 BC, and one of the more well-known Hindu calculations for Kali Yuga has the yuga starting around 3102 BC. Perhaps something remarkable  happened in the 3000s BC.
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« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2011, 10:04:03 PM »

If someone were to come about claiming that the Bible was false, I have a hard time believing too many Orthodox hierarchs and monks and such would be fooled into believing the person was Christ.
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« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2011, 10:08:00 PM »

I got a plan for when this happens.  I'm eating lots and lots of dairy stuff that gives me some atomic diarrhea cause when I die someone is going to have to clean the sh*t up  laugh
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« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2011, 10:13:34 PM »

Thank you Gebre for providing a serious answer and helping me.
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« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2011, 11:49:37 PM »

I think the Scriptures speak very clearly on your question.  Here are two verses that come immediately to mind:

I John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The return of Our Lord in glory is to be expected in every age, and truly, it is always imminent.  It has been so from the time of the Holy Apostles to now.  There are antichrists and Antichrists.  There are many who follow antichrists and will eventually follow the Antichrist.  This is the teaching of the Fathers.  However, nowhere in Scripture or in the Fathers is there a teaching that there will be an antichrist (a particular man) whose sole purpose is to pretend to be the Antichrist, so when the charade is exposed, the real Antichrist will look like Christ returned.  It's worth noting that I have been "schooled" in Orthodox "end times" teaching from monastics and the teaching you mention has never been mentioned.  It's also worth noting that I haven't read every Father.

John

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« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2011, 12:13:10 AM »

However it pans out, it is likely that clergy will be deceived.

Get to know Christ as well as possible while you still can. If you do, you will be able to recognize a counterfeit.
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« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2011, 01:34:27 AM »

vardzia, vanis kvabebi and david of gareji monastery complexes are entirely dug out of caves. They are for sure man made (Orthodox Christians made them by God's Will) structures not less complex and built earlier then Lalibela churches. Since we have a precedent (of man-made monolithic rock structures)  we don't need to refer to Alien hypothesis Wink

here are some pictures of vardzia











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« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2011, 11:57:05 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pedoqyfLgRk&feature=channel_video_title

What are your views on this? Do you think that the year 2012 will be the beginning of a supposed consciousness change? If there is a supposed false Christ who will come, do you think that Catholic and Orthodox leaders will fall for his tricks, as the man who made the video implies? Please only serious answers.

This man presents his “theory” about how it will all happen starting with a major war in 2012, but he prefaces this by saying he is still working on his theory and he may be wrong.  In the Orthodox Church there is no such market for “Apocalyptic theorists”.  We have saints and Fathers who, illumined by God, did say a thing or two about the Antichrist and the Second Coming, but not attempting to assign dates to certain events, and not to play a guessing game about how they think things will play out.  Regarding the claim that a fake Antichrist will precede the real Antichrist so that many will think that the real Antichrist is the Lord and worship Him, perhaps this will happen but I have seen nothing of the sort revealed accept by this man who by his own admission is playing a guessing game.  As to whether the real Antichrist will deceive “institutional churches”, that is certainly to be expected and we see signs of the preparation for the Religion of Antichrist being embraced already by Roman Catholics and mainline Protestants, particularly in the form of the “contemplative prayer” and “centering prayer” movements, yoga, the Charismatic movement, and other pseudo-spiritualities that place private subjective “experiences” above God’s revelation and above the Church’s patristic teaching.  We also see preparation for the Antichrist in self-proclaimed “Bible believing” churches primarily in the form of the false teaching that the Lord will reign on earth for 1,000 years.  Many Protestant fundamentalists are already preparing to welcome the Antichrist by funding Non-Christian Zionists and their efforts to rebuild the Jerusalem Temple, for instance.  Sola Scriptura places infallibility in the mind of the interpreter, such that regardless of how “New Age” the Antichrist’s religion might otherwise seem, the Sola Scripturist will likely find complete biblical justification for accepting the Antichrist, just as they find complete biblical justification for rejecting many of the verses of Scripture already (for instance, those which clearly state that Communion is actually Christ’s body and blood).

The Church is not an institution or a “denomination”, but rather the body of Christ, a divine-human organism.  It is the Church that is the “pillar and ground of the truth (1 Tim 3:15)”, and not the Scriptures which can be interpreted in every way possible to fit in with man’s delusions and “theories”.  Since the Scriptures say that the Antichrist will “deceive, if possible, even the elect (Matt 24:24),” we can be sure that some Orthodox will be deceived, and we can already see preparation for this deception among those who advocate syncretistic ecumenism, who do not fully accept the Church’s ecclesiology, and who do not uphold or teach the Church’s ascetical and martyric worldview.  Those who are truly Orthodox, who live patristically and ascetically, will not be deceived by the Antichrist, but sadly it is true that some false brethren (and even false shepherds/hierarchs) will be deceived.  As for liberal and fundamentalist Protestants and Roman Catholics, who have not tasted of the grace present in the Mysteries of the Church, and who already have accepted many false wonders, pseudo-spiritualities, and false teachings, they will gladly serve the Antichrist who will fulfill the ambitions of their respective religious institutions. 

Regarding the “new consciousness” that has been developing throughout the world, and how the “Charismatic movement” is related to the coming Antichrist, I would recommend the book “Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future” by Fr. Seraphim Rose:

http://stherman.com/Catalog/Writings_of_Father_Seraphim/orf_book.htm

You can read some excerpts here:

http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/readings/future/

http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/readings/sign/

For a detailed Orthodox commentary on the Book of Revelations, listen to the audio by Archimandrite Athanasios Mitilinaios

http://www.pantokrator.info/en/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=5

As Fr. Seraphim (Rose) stated in his book, among other things:

The Second Coming of Christ will be unmistakable: it will be sudden, from heaven (Acts 1:11), and it will mark the end of this world. There can be no "preparation" for it - save only the Orthodox Christian preparation of repentance, spiritual life, and watchfulness. Those who are "preparing" for it in any other way, who say that he is anywhere "here" - especially "here" in the Temple of Jerusalem - or who preach that "Jesus is coming soon" without warning of the great deception that is to precede His Coming: are clearly the prophets of antichrist, the false Christ who must come first and deceive the world, including all "Christians" who are not or do not become truly Orthodox. There is to be no future "millennium." For those who can receive it, the "millennium" of the Apocalypse (Apoc. 20:6) is now; the life of grace in the Orthodox Church for the whole "thousand years" between the First Coming of Christ and the time of antichrist. That Protestants should expect the "millennium" in the future is only their confession that they do not live in it in the present - that is, that they are outside the Church of Christ and have not tasted of Divine grace.
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« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2011, 12:12:21 PM »

I don't think you should be mocked for asking this question. It is a legitimate question and we should be aware of these deceptive and unOrthodox theories so that we can accurately refute them. However, some answers are very simple. And the simple answer is that we should not indulge such unOrthodox speculations. We await the return of Our Lord, and He Himself clearly said that no one knows the day or the hour. But we do sight the signs of the times, and we do know that the end is near. And we also know that Our Lord will come like lightning from the east, and as a thief in the night. So let us be watchful, sober, prayerful, and alert. But let us not be deceived by worldly rumors and pseudo-spiritul theories that purport to tell us how and when the world will end, change, or be "renewed".


"Lord have mercy."


Selam




I agree, we have to be watchful, and the teaching of a 2012 consciousness change is very unorthodox. That is also what the video I posted says. The man in this video is an Evangelical Protestant probably, and he thinks that there will be a false antichrist, then a person who wipes out that false antichrist who claims to be God, yet is the real antichrist. He says that the Orthodox and Catholic churches will fall for the lies of the real antichrist in the end of the age. The question I was trying to ask is, will Orthodox and Catholic leaders fall for this? The man who made the video seems very intelligent and seems to know his stuff. Some of his other videos are really great apologetics.

Protestants deny the Apostolic Tradition. There is your answer.

The Catholic Church (i.e. the Orthodox) is the Church of the Fathers.  She will not 'fall' for the anti-Christ.

Some individuals, probably many (including clergy and bishops alike), within Orthodoxy and the modern Roman Church will no doubt so 'fall' to the anti-Christ.

However, regardless of how you interpret Christ's giving the keys to the kingdom to Peter, His words from Matthew, chapter 16 are clear and give you the answer to your question:  "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. ”


(Please don't misunderstand me, I am not supporting Rome here. Look at this verse from patristic point of view and the teaching of Orthodoxy. The Church will prevail!)

Hope this helps you.
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