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Author Topic: 69th anniversary of Ukrainian Insurgence Army marked in Kiev  (Read 1260 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: October 14, 2011, 07:37:21 PM »

Large crowds attended the 69th anniversary of the Ukrainian Insurgence Army, in the capital of Kiev.

From the article:
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Ukrainian Insurgent Army was a large and well organized Ukrainian nationalist military and later partisan army that engaged in a series of guerrilla conflicts during World War II against Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia, and both Underground and Communist Poland. The group was the military wing of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists — Bandera faction (the OUN-B), originally formed in Volyn region (northwestern Ukraine) in the spring and summer of 1943. But officially the day of creation is the day of Intercession of the Theotokos or the Protection of Our Most Holy Lady Theotokos and Ever-Virgin Mary that is celebrated in Ukraine on 14th of October.
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« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2011, 09:53:00 AM »

Hooray for ethnic cleansing
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« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2011, 10:09:57 AM »


I'm sure you meant that as a joke, Iconodule. 

For surely, you would never jest at the annihilation or slaughter of humans, any where or at any time.  Right?
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« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2011, 10:15:11 AM »

My point is that, while there were heroic people and heroic acts within the UPA, the UPA's policy of massacring Poles and other ethnic minorities in Ukraine makes it, in my opinion, ridiculous to celebrate the organization as a whole.
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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2011, 10:19:29 AM »

My point is that, while there were heroic people and heroic acts within the UPA, the UPA's policy of massacring Poles and other ethnic minorities in Ukraine makes it, in my opinion, ridiculous to celebrate the organization as a whole.

Indeed.  It'd be nice to see Christians no longer celebrate the slaughter of other people. 
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« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2011, 11:09:37 AM »

My point is that, while there were heroic people and heroic acts within the UPA, the UPA's policy of massacring Poles and other ethnic minorities in Ukraine makes it, in my opinion, ridiculous to celebrate the organization as a whole.

Indeed.  It'd be nice to see Christians no longer celebrate the slaughter of other people. 

The UPA was the ONLY military force that fought FOR UKRAINE in WW2.

There is absolutely no evidence that there were orders from the UPA commanders to massacre Poles and other minorities. (In fact, quite a lot of UPA fighters were themselves ethnic Russians or ethnic Jews.) An attempt on the life of a civilian - of any ethnicity - had to be, according to the UPA disciplinary code, punished by firing squad.

Of course, during a ruthless guerilla war, all sides seek those who aid the other side, and deal with those people quite brutally at times. Polish Armiya Krayova did that to whoever they thought were aiding UPA, and UPA retaliated by the same actions, yes, sometimes brutal, dirty, bloody.

Still, just like AK are heroes to Poles, UPA are heroes to me, and as long as I live I will celebrate their memory.
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« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2011, 01:33:49 PM »

What about RONA?  They fought for a Ukraine separate from Russia.
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« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2011, 03:53:47 AM »

The UPA was the ONLY military force that fought FOR UKRAINE in WW2.

So what?  That doesn't mean it is worth idolatry. 

There is absolutely no evidence that there were orders from the UPA commanders to massacre Poles and other minorities. (In fact, quite a lot of UPA fighters were themselves ethnic Russians or ethnic Jews.) An attempt on the life of a civilian - of any ethnicity - had to be, according to the UPA disciplinary code, punished by firing squad.

Of course, during a ruthless guerilla war, all sides seek those who aid the other side, and deal with those people quite brutally at times. Polish Armiya Krayova did that to whoever they thought were aiding UPA, and UPA retaliated by the same actions, yes, sometimes brutal, dirty, bloody.

But such massacres did occur even if you wished to pretend otherwise.  The Kresy was a vibrantly multicultural area before WWII.  After WWII it was left homogeneously Ukrainian: Jews, Poles and Germans need not apply.  Of course the Nazis and the Red Army did the brunt of the ethnic cleansing, but the UPA certainly doesn't have clean hands.  I can't respect it as an organization because even from its days as a terrorist organization before the War it proposed only simplistic solutions, i.e Ukrainian nationalism to an area that demanded complex answers.

While I sympathize with some of the ideals of the UPA, I find the ubiquitous Bandera statues of Western Ukraine to be as ridiculous as Lenin statues of Eastern Ukraine.  Why can't people simply live - why do they need an idolatrous civil religion and the accompanying instruments of liturgical worship?  It doesn't matter whether it is Marxism-Lenism or X nationalism.       

Still, just like AK are heroes to Poles, UPA are heroes to me, and as long as I live I will celebrate their memory.

My grandfather actually fought in the AK and his version of events is bit different.  I've never encountered triumphalism or reveling in the glory of Poland from him.  In fact I've only ever heard him express sadness that most of those he had to kill in combat were likely young people like himself that had absolutely no desire to be engaged in warfare.  They were simply born in Germany or the USSR and conscripted to fight.  I've never seen that sort of nuanced memory from a nationalist.  Never. 

But I can see why many Orthodox Christians would venerate the UPA as they are not in fact real Christians.  They are nationalists and Orthodox Christianity is a mere adjunct to this primary faith.  If the state religion of Ukraine became Buddhism tomorrow, I'd expect the vast majority of today's "Ukrainian Orthodox" to be writing about how Vladimir the Great had been a crypto-Buddhist and such.   
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« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2011, 12:18:52 PM »

What is significant in this discussion is that Poland was the first country to recognize the independence of Ukraine in 1991.
After the centuries of battle this is encouraging for the future.
And Poland even apologized for the destruction of Orthodox churches in Volynia!
Who would ever have thought these two actions by Poland were possible?
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« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2011, 12:25:25 PM »


Who would have thought that the Communist yoke would drop from Ukraine without a single drop of blood being shed.....it just fell apart....like wax before a flame!

Glory be to God for all things!

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« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2011, 02:50:30 PM »

That to me is the greatest modern miracle of all.
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« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2011, 03:11:35 PM »


:-)

It confirms that God is with us....

....if only we could get our act together.....imagine what great things we could achieve!?!
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« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2011, 04:48:26 PM »

I am sure Greek partisans never killed an innocent civilian, so...



Then of course, French Resistance fighters never massacred any innocent French civilians who were forced to serve German occupiers, so...



And most certainly, AK fighters (Polish Resistance) were impeccably polite with, and protective of, innocent Ukrainian civilians, so...



These peoples deserve to have their heroes and to build monuments commemorating them. Not so Ukrainians (Small Russians). Everybody knows that during WWII, they just collaborated with the Nazis and helped them with ethnic cleansing, and that now, they are idolatrous cave nationalists, badly in need of political correctness lessons from American political science graduates.  Grin Grin Grin
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