OrthodoxChristianity.net
August 30, 2014, 06:32:09 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Seminarians from Presov, Slovak Republic  (Read 1511 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,237


SS Cyril and Methodius Church, Mercer, PA


WWW
« on: October 14, 2011, 05:44:19 PM »

For those of you who appreciate the proper usage of Carpatho-Russian Chant or Rusyn Prostopinije as it is called, the Chorale from the Blessed Paul Goidich Greek Catholic Seminary in Presov, Slovakia is touring the northeast USA this month.

Clearly, the work of the great cantor/teachers of the19th century Presov Academy has been not been lost or been in vain! Many of our early Rusyn priests and cantors in America, be they Greek Catholic, or later converts to Orthodoxy, learned there and brought the beauty of the prostopenije to America. I thank them for teaching men like the late Metropolitans Orestes and Nicholas, priests like my father and others, who in turn passed this tradition on to people like me and many others. Many parishes within ACROD and the OCA retain elements of this tradition, and for that we are eternally grateful! Eternal be all of their memories!  Vicnaja jim Pamjat!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D524ApJH9m4&feature=related
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 05:45:45 PM by podkarpatska » Logged
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,467


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2011, 06:12:49 PM »

I believe this is the seminary choir I saw some years back at the Greek Catholic church in Harrisburg, PA.  If so, they were delightful, both in singing and as people.
Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,237


SS Cyril and Methodius Church, Mercer, PA


WWW
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2011, 06:28:46 PM »

I believe this is the seminary choir I saw some years back at the Greek Catholic church in Harrisburg, PA.  If so, they were delightful, both in singing and as people.


That was the choir from the Uzhorod Seminary in Transcarpathia. They both sing plain chant, but the Presov variant is a bit different from that of Uzhorod. The old timers would argue, while slinging down slivovica until the cows came home, about which city was 'true' to the tradition. Sort of like the internet, only face to face you slugged each other more.  Smiley
Logged
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,237


SS Cyril and Methodius Church, Mercer, PA


WWW
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2011, 06:32:55 PM »

For those of you who are unaware of Orthodox Church history in the Americas, St. Alexis Toth of Wilkes-Barre was a graduate of the Presov Academy and a distinguished professor there prior to his arriving in North America. Unfortunately, at the time he led the first Greek Catholics back to Orthodoxy, he was unable to resist the efforts of Great Russian zealots who equated anything related to the Rusyn rescension and its chant with Latinization and the charge of 'Uniatism'.  Fortunately, we know our history better today and can recognize the genuine pre-Union Orthodoxy of much of the Rusyn religious heritage.
Logged
username!
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ukrainian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Pennsylvaniadoxy
Posts: 5,063



« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2011, 06:50:59 PM »

If you were raised in Pennsylvaniadoxy, this is the common S'nami Boh, except it's in Slavonic or English (nowadays).  There are a few Russian parishes in PA that still use prostopinije, mostly in Clearfield/Indiana County.  Lots of this sounds familiar of course, and the presov style is the one ACROD uses. The new style used in the Ruthenian (Greek) Byzantine Catholic churches in English just doesn't feel right.  I know the argument is that it is "closer" to the Bokshay.  Just let people sing what feels right, plus prostopinije lends itself to be sung in Slavonic or Ukrainian much easier than English, and the recent attempts in Pittsburgh to make the music flow in English didn't really capture the down home from the heart feeling traditional prostopinije has, just like galacian chant, both are home grown chants.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 07:00:35 PM by username! » Logged

Gorazd
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: The Ecumenical Patriarchate of Istanbul and Chambésy
Posts: 1,946



« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2011, 06:58:35 PM »

Great! I hope I will have time to visit Prešov next year.
Logged
username!
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ukrainian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Pennsylvaniadoxy
Posts: 5,063



« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2011, 07:10:24 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-ASVjTPwvk
There, that is prostopinije. 
Logged

podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,237


SS Cyril and Methodius Church, Mercer, PA


WWW
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2011, 07:39:54 PM »

If you were raised in Pennsylvaniadoxy, this is the common S'nami Boh, except it's in Slavonic or English (nowadays).  There are a few Russian parishes in PA that still use prostopinije, mostly in Clearfield/Indiana County.  Lots of this sounds familiar of course, and the presov style is the one ACROD uses. The new style used in the Ruthenian (Greek) Byzantine Catholic churches in English just doesn't feel right.  I know the argument is that it is "closer" to the Bokshay.  Just let people sing what feels right, plus prostopinije lends itself to be sung in Slavonic or Ukrainian much easier than English, and the recent attempts in Pittsburgh to make the music flow in English didn't really capture the down home from the heart feeling traditional prostopinije has, just like galacian chant, both are home grown chants.

Well stated, actually the argument between the Presov school and the adherents of Bokshay and the Uzhorod school permeated the great schism within the Greek Catholic world in the 1930's. Bishop Takach and his leading advisors were all of Magyarized Uzhorod faculty while the 'revolutionaries' were mostly of Presov origin. As I said, "Rusnaks" did, and continue to, argue this stuff until the cows came home or whatever we do here in modern America!
Logged
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,237


SS Cyril and Methodius Church, Mercer, PA


WWW
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2011, 07:51:02 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-ASVjTPwvk
There, that is prostopinije. 

I don't disagree, but so are the snippets from Presov.

Actually, in my opinion, the problem that the folks who put together the Revised Divine Liturgy in the Byzantine Church encountered was that they tried to 'pigeon hole' the chant into one rigid form. Like any 'folk' based musical system, it developed historically within a distinct geographical area with unique and legitimate regional distinctions. Each cantor had the 'basics', but unlike Znammeny, he was 'allowed' some variance in pitch, pace and enunciation. By enforcing 'sameness' they robbed the chant of its natural 'duch' or spirit. I hope that the singers from the 'old country' will encourage those in the Byzantine church to reconnect with their heritage.

It is only natural that my ears have a natural preference for the so-called Presov versions, but I accept and appreciate the Uzhorod school as well. Presov cantors were more influenced by Galician cantors from the other side of the Tatras who had little impact or contact with Transcarpathia. My father (a 'Sarisan') and Metropolitan Nicholas (a 'Berechan') would kid each other constantly about this; the Metropolitan would use a pejorative to describe my dad as 'Slovaci' (slovak) and my dad with reciprocate with a claim of the Bishop being 'Magyar' or ---  Ukrainian!  Of course this was in jest as both men respected each other's talents and were regarded both in North America and Europe and by Orthodox and Greek Catholics alike as being among the best versed late 20th century practitioners of the chant.

I am simply grateful that in Europe, in spite of the turmoil of the 20th centuries, that both of these schools have kept the chant tradition alive and vibrant. We in America should be so fortunate.
Logged
Gorazd
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: The Ecumenical Patriarchate of Istanbul and Chambésy
Posts: 1,946



« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2011, 08:21:36 PM »

I am simply grateful that in Europe, in spite of the turmoil of the 20th centuries, that both of these schools have kept the chant tradition alive and vibrant. We in America should be so fortunate.
Is that the case only amongst Greek Catholics, or also among Orthodox?
I have not been been to the mentioned cities yet, but in (Ukrainian) Bukovina, where I was a few weeks ago, local traditions seem to be menaced by Russian influences.
Logged
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,237


SS Cyril and Methodius Church, Mercer, PA


WWW
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2011, 09:31:27 PM »

I am simply grateful that in Europe, in spite of the turmoil of the 20th centuries, that both of these schools have kept the chant tradition alive and vibrant. We in America should be so fortunate.
Is that the case only amongst Greek Catholics, or also among Orthodox?
I have not been been to the mentioned cities yet, but in (Ukrainian) Bukovina, where I was a few weeks ago, local traditions seem to be menaced by Russian influences.

The Orthodox Faculty at the University of Presov has also been active in keeping the chant tradition. If I recall their chorale has several CD's available, at least in Europe. To my knowledge, they have not toured the US. If I recall correctly, the UOC-MP churches in Transcarpathia do not have their own academy in Uzhorod but send their students to Kiev or St. Petersburg. While some of the Orthodox clergy in Uzhorod have striven mightily to keep the local Rusyn customs relevant and alive, most notably Fr. Sydor of the Exhaltation Cathedral in Uzhorod, pressures from both the pro-Ukrainian and pro-Russian factions there have made things more difficult. Unfortunately, for the Rusyns it is the same old story - neither Rome nor Moscow really have any room for them at the table as their 'different-ness' makes others uncomfortable.
Logged
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,467


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2011, 09:34:25 PM »

I believe this is the seminary choir I saw some years back at the Greek Catholic church in Harrisburg, PA.  If so, they were delightful, both in singing and as people.


That was the choir from the Uzhorod Seminary in Transcarpathia. They both sing plain chant, but the Presov variant is a bit different from that of Uzhorod. The old timers would argue, while slinging down slivovica until the cows came home, about which city was 'true' to the tradition. Sort of like the internet, only face to face you slugged each other more.  Smiley

Ah, yes, you are correct! 

I've always enjoyed the small differences between the two traditions, but I, of course, don't have a dog in the fight of which side was more "true". Smiley
Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
Gorazd
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: The Ecumenical Patriarchate of Istanbul and Chambésy
Posts: 1,946



« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2011, 09:40:16 PM »

Uzhhorod has a seminary of the MP, but not an academy.
Logged
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,237


SS Cyril and Methodius Church, Mercer, PA


WWW
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2011, 10:37:06 PM »

Uzhhorod has a seminary of the MP, but not an academy.

Thank you....
Logged
username!
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ukrainian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Pennsylvaniadoxy
Posts: 5,063



« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2011, 11:43:21 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-ASVjTPwvk
There, that is prostopinije. 

I don't disagree, but so are the snippets from Presov.

Indeed they are.  I agree with the notion of "pigeon-holing" with the new-revised stuff from the Ruthenian Byzantine Catholics.  It doesn't sing well and it sounds rather like fingernails being scraped on a chaulkboard to someone who is used to down-home plain chant, whether prostopinije or galacian.  Not to mention the English translation is just horrendous.  Put the new english translation together with the revised music and you have nothing short of a train-wreck.
Logged

podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,237


SS Cyril and Methodius Church, Mercer, PA


WWW
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2011, 03:14:04 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-ASVjTPwvk
There, that is prostopinije. 

I don't disagree, but so are the snippets from Presov.

Indeed they are.  I agree with the notion of "pigeon-holing" with the new-revised stuff from the Ruthenian Byzantine Catholics.  It doesn't sing well and it sounds rather like fingernails being scraped on a chaulkboard to someone who is used to down-home plain chant, whether prostopinije or galacian.  Not to mention the English translation is just horrendous.  Put the new english translation together with the revised music and you have nothing short of a train-wreck.

I never understood the need to revise, the Levkulic book of the mid-1970's was well translated and easy to follow. Oh well, not my problem....I am just thankful that one of the leading 'musicians' involved with the RDL passed in and out of Johnstown without landing long enough to do any harm.
Logged
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,237


SS Cyril and Methodius Church, Mercer, PA


WWW
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2011, 10:08:00 AM »

I have to share an anecdote. The Christ the Savior Seminarians from ACROD attended the concert at the Byzantine Catholic parish in Johnstown the other night. They were in cassock as is appropriate when engaged in group activities related to their schooling.

During the intermission, my son, one of the J-town seminarians, was speaking with a few of the 'babas' from the Byzantine Catholic Church. With a straight face, one of them asked him where he learned to speak such wonderful American English! The funny part is that the same thing, in reverse, happened to my dad some years ago when he found himself in Presov, Slovakia at a brunch at a Greek Catholic Church, he was asked by the priest to say a few words. He spoke for a few minutes in idiomatic Rusyn, afterwards, someone asked him if he had 'just' moved to America. (He was born there!)

I guess what goes around comes around!  Smiley
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 10:08:41 AM by podkarpatska » Logged
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2011, 01:24:32 PM »

Great for your dad!
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.086 seconds with 44 queries.