Author Topic: Arabic Liturgical Differences between Melkites and Antiochian Orthodox  (Read 1886 times)

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Offline chaldobyzantine

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Glory to Jesus Christ

I want to start this by saying I mean not to offend either Patriarchate's church members, but only to seek knowledge.

I understand that of course in the English language there are many different ways of saying the same thing. This leads to different translations of the liturgy, troparions, vespers, etc.

What I do not understand is the purpose of different translations existing in the Melkite Greek-Catholic Church and the Antiochian Orthodox Church for their Arabic texts. Most of the liturgy is relatively the same, but different troparions is what intrigues my questioning.

For example, the Melkite version of the Dormition troparion is as follows:
في ولادتك حفظت البتولية، وفي رقادك ما تركت العالم، يا والدة الإله. فإنّك انتقلت الى الحياة بما أنّك أمّ الحياة، وبشفاعتك تنقذين من الموت نفوسنا

The Antiochian Version is as follows:
في ميلادك حفظت البتولية وصنتها وفي رقادك ما أهملت العالم وتركته يا والدة الإله، لأنك انتقلت الى الحياة بما أنك أم الحياة فبشفاعاتك أنقدي من الموت نفوسنا

I understand that the meaning is the same, but sometimes one version is more poetic than the other. This is one of many examples. What I have trouble understanding is because I am under the impression that due to both churches being the same in origin, I believe all their texts should be identical. Does this only exist between the Melkites and Antiochians, or do the Alexandrian and Jerusalem Patriarchates also utilize other translations as well?

If you can understand Arabic, or if you know the reason for these differences, please post your reply.

Thank you.
Proclaim the wonder, O Joseph, to David, the ancestor of God:
you saw a Virgin great with Child, you gave glory with the shepherds,
you worshipped with the Magi, you received the news from the angel.
Pray to Christ God to save our souls!

Offline arimethea

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Re: Arabic Liturgical Differences between Melkites and Antiochian Orthodox
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2011, 12:23:55 AM »
Glory to Jesus Christ

I want to start this by saying I mean not to offend either Patriarchate's church members, but only to seek knowledge.

I understand that of course in the English language there are many different ways of saying the same thing. This leads to different translations of the liturgy, troparions, vespers, etc.

What I do not understand is the purpose of different translations existing in the Melkite Greek-Catholic Church and the Antiochian Orthodox Church for their Arabic texts. Most of the liturgy is relatively the same, but different troparions is what intrigues my questioning.

For example, the Melkite version of the Dormition troparion is as follows:
في ولادتك حفظت البتولية، وفي رقادك ما تركت العالم، يا والدة الإله. فإنّك انتقلت الى الحياة بما أنّك أمّ الحياة، وبشفاعتك تنقذين من الموت نفوسنا

The Antiochian Version is as follows:
في ميلادك حفظت البتولية وصنتها وفي رقادك ما أهملت العالم وتركته يا والدة الإله، لأنك انتقلت الى الحياة بما أنك أم الحياة فبشفاعاتك أنقدي من الموت نفوسنا

I understand that the meaning is the same, but sometimes one version is more poetic than the other. This is one of many examples. What I have trouble understanding is because I am under the impression that due to both churches being the same in origin, I believe all their texts should be identical. Does this only exist between the Melkites and Antiochians, or do the Alexandrian and Jerusalem Patriarchates also utilize other translations as well?

If you can understand Arabic, or if you know the reason for these differences, please post your reply.

Thank you.

You have to remember history. Part of the reason the Melkites split was over language. It was not until after the Melkites left the faith that Arabic was used in either tradition. The Lord's Prayer is a famous example of the differences. It is my understanding that the translation used by the Orthodox are easier to chant to the authentic since their translation from the Greek was done in harmony with the Byzantine notation.
Joseph