Author Topic: Jesus the Messiah question  (Read 7792 times)

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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Jesus the Messiah question
« Reply #45 on: October 26, 2011, 03:37:55 AM »
From St. John Climacus' 4th Step (the usual disclaimer is that he's speaking of monastics, but I think it's quite applicable to many of us who lead social lives less active than St. Mary of Egypt):


Srsly. Cognomen, you are a force lately. When did you get the new decoder ring that has made you all wise and stuff?

Offline JLatimer

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Re: Jesus the Messiah question
« Reply #46 on: October 26, 2011, 12:11:34 PM »
This may sound odd.  But I was really thinking of going back to basics here..

Exactly WHY do we believe Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God -- the second Person of the Holy Trinity?  When the Jews never understood the Trinity in the way that we do.. and the Pharisees (the ancestors of Rabbinical Judaism) never appeared to believe in it.  So the Messiah was very much a human figure.. and only God himself could save the people from their sins. 

I've read a lot of websites.. where they say many of the Messianic texts which are derived from the Bible, were heavily taken out of context.  Isaiah 53 being one example..

So again -- why do we believe it, Why should I trust that what the Church Fathers said is true?  How do I know they also were not merely indoctrinated.. with other people's thinking, instead of coming to their own conclusions..

Actually it is the Jews who take many Messianic texts out of context, or even (nowadays) deny that certain passages are Messianic at all, in contradiction to their own first-century Targums, which treat the passages Messianically as Christians do.

Isaiah 53 makes no sense, IMO, when read as a description of the people of Israel and not the Messiah.
1 Samuel 25:22 (KJV)
So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.