OrthodoxChristianity.net
September 02, 2014, 06:39:46 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: question about Apollinarianism  (Read 1003 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Andrew Crook
formerly known as AveChriste11
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Posts: 523



« on: October 12, 2011, 11:06:53 PM »

How do the OO's feel about Apollinarianism?  Did Jesus have a human rational mind (nous), or was it overtaken by his Divinity according to OO theology?

This was inspired by our friend Stephanos Nikolaos which caused me to ask the question.  Smiley
Logged

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith; Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity
Hiwot
Christ is Risen!
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 1,959


Job 19:25-27


« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2011, 11:27:25 PM »

selam Andrew

Let St.Gregory the Theologian answer '' that which is not assumed is not redeemed, but that which is united to God is saved''  the hypostatic union is a real perfect union between the Fullness of Divinity and the Fullness of Humanity, without  mingling ,confusion, alterlation, separation.

selam to you.
Logged

To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
Severian
God save Egypt, Syria & Iraq
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Coptic/Egyptian Orthodoxy
Posts: 5,039


In solidarity with Iraqi and Syrian Christians

Partisangirl
WWW
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2011, 05:08:55 PM »

How do the OO's feel about Apollinarianism?  Did Jesus have a human rational mind (nous), or was it overtaken by his Divinity according to OO theology?

This was inspired by our friend Stephanos Nikolaos which caused me to ask the question.  Smiley
We are not Apollinarians. I think you should read Saint Severus of Antioch's writings to see what OOs believe about Christology, if you are interested:

http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/index.htm#Severus_of_Antioch
Logged

On hiatus from posting. Forgive me if my posts have lacked humility or tact. Note that some of my older posts -especially those prior to late 2012- may not reflect my current views. In the meantime, please pray for my sinful self as I am in a critical and unsure juncture in my life. Thank you.
orthonorm
Warned
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,488



« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2011, 06:41:56 PM »

selam Andrew

Let St.Gregory the Theologian answer '' that which is not assumed is not redeemed, but that which is united to God is saved''  the hypostatic union is a real perfect union between the Fullness of Divinity and the Fullness of Humanity, without  mingling ,confusion, alterlation, separation.

selam to you.

You make it all sound so easy.

Now explain why we have 2,000 threads arguing Christology among Orthodox here.

I believe, Hiwot! Help my unbelief!
Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
Hiwot
Christ is Risen!
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 1,959


Job 19:25-27


« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2011, 01:47:24 AM »

selam Andrew

Let St.Gregory the Theologian answer '' that which is not assumed is not redeemed, but that which is united to God is saved''  the hypostatic union is a real perfect union between the Fullness of Divinity and the Fullness of Humanity, without  mingling ,confusion, alterlation, separation.

selam to you.

You make it all sound so easy.

Now explain why we have 2,000 threads arguing Christology among Orthodox here.

I believe, Hiwot! Help my unbelief!

Selam orthonorm Smiley

LOL moi being a simple laity, sitting in a sunday school long long time ago, my eyes used to glaze over when these people's name  and the details of thier heresies were being mentioned. Its like walking on a mine field,to tell you the truth, and like you said it is not that easy, it would be best left for the theologians capable of handling that kind of work. however before I go away for the weekend I thought I will dish out what little I know on this matter and "duck" while the theologians take over.

+

The heresy of apolinarios the younger bishop of Laodicea in Syria, was not only about his substitution of the human spirit by the Divine logos but he also thought separation between the Hypostasis of the Holy Trinity. According to him the Father is higher than the Son and the Son is higher than the Spirit. Both of his heresies are Condemned and anathemised by the Orthodox Church.
Going back to his heresy of the substitution of the Human spirit (nous i.e. the rational soul ,that which differentiates man from an animal in that it gives him free will and intelligence.) he claimed was substituted or replaced by the Logos, therefore according to his logic , he can speak of the Logs becoming flesh in so much as that flesh is that of a being ( since we cannot call this thing he came up with as a man without a rational soul that’s man’s crowning glory bestowed upon him by the Holy Trinity)without its own free will, without intelligence, without personality. He argued in this way only can the Divine unite Himself with flesh because two independent beings cannot unite perfectly, so he reduced man into basically an animal who has body and sensitive soul, but no rational mind. He argued with this theology one avoids adding a fourth member of the Holy Trinity i.e. man. Not only that but he believed that the human mind is sinful, or the sin is the nature of the soul. Apolianrios by his replacement of the human soul by The Divine Logos he ended up making a new being as a result of the combination of the two. A human body and soul unite to make a man, and their separation renders one a corps and the other a spirit. This union of the Divine acting like the human soul and united to the flesh makes a new being. Thus literally altering not only the human nature, but the Divine Nature of the Logos Himself! In addition to this if the Divine is the soul of the body then in death the Divine totally separates from the corpse. If the Divine Nature can suffer and die then God by nature must be capable of mortality. If that is so, then He ceases to be the God we worship.
The orthodox believe that in the fullness of time the Eternal Logos united in a real, perfect hypostatic union to the Fullness of humanity and became truly Man except for sin.  In the Incarnation, His humanity remains unaltered by His Divinity, nor is His Divinity confused with His humanity, nor was it mixed, nor was it ever separated. The incarnation is necessary to redeem the fullness of humanity, and what is not assumed is not healed, and what is not united with God is not saved.  

=> Let us now look at the scriptures for few examples that will clearly show the rational soul of our lord which is the seat of the free will,

John 10: 17-18 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

Matthew 26:38 Then he said to them, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me."

John 12:27 "Now my heart is troubled, and what shall I say?’Father, save me from this hour'? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour.


Matthew 4:1-10 1Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil. 2After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
4Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.”
5Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:
“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
And they will lift you up in their hands,
So that you will not strike your foot against a stone.”
7Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.”
8Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9“All this I will give you,” he said, “If you will bow down and worship me.”
10Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.”
11Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.


John 4:7 now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour. There came a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus said unto her, Give me to drink.

Luke 10:21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.

Even when the Lord of Glory suffered and died in Flesh his Divinity was not separated from neither his flesh nor his soul, when his side was pierced with the lance water and blood came forth, even while he descended into the abyss and dissolved It. revealing that he is True GOD and True MAN, the blood symbolizing his true humanity, the water his Divinity.
John 19:34 “But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and immediately came there out blood and water.”
I will stop here for today , hopefully my more learnt brothers and sisters will correct any error I might have made when I was explaining this from my very limited lay understanding of this matter, I was just doing it in obedience to the apostle as he has commanded to  all of us saying “But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:’’ 1 Peter 3:15

Selam to all.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 01:48:02 AM by Hiwot » Logged

To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
Father Peter
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: British Orthodox Church within the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate
Posts: 2,630



WWW
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2011, 04:10:46 AM »

orthonorm, are there 2000 threads arguing about Christology, or some threads arguing about the status of Chalcedon, and a great many threads discovering and witnessing to a common Christology?

I am very much alert to heterodoxy whenever I read materials by Catholics or Eastern Orthodox, I am not a theological liberal at all, but I don't find any great difference in Christology, nor was that the reason for the continuing division between Christians all the way back to the 6th century.

I am especially pleased that a recent thread in which a ROCOR member has been fruitfully participating shows a similar apparent agreement.

Personally, the Christological questions that need asking and answering on both sides are not many or overly complex. If various ambiguous technical terms are avoided, or heavily glossed, then it is quite easy to discover what is believed on both sides and whether or not there is agreement.

The stumbling block has always been, and continues to be, the status and description of Chalcedon itself.
Logged

Lord have mercy upon me a sinner
http://www.orthodoxmedway.org

My blog - http://anorthodoxpriest.blogspot.co.uk

The poster formerly known as peterfarrington
Tags: Christology 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.059 seconds with 32 queries.