Author Topic: If you were a psychopath  (Read 1349 times)

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Offline Shiny

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If you were a psychopath
« on: July 20, 2011, 01:40:17 PM »
Well... how would you know? I mean... imagine that you don't know what it's like to feel emotions the way everyone else does, but from the beginning of your life you understood them enough to convince yourself that you did feel it, and thus you show symptoms that correlate with those emotions. So everyone around you is convinced that you feel these emotions, and even you believe it, but the truth is you don't. How would you discover that? How would you come to believe that? How do you know you're not a psychopath?
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: If you were a psychopath
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2011, 01:49:35 PM »
Well at age eight I began to realize that, when everyone was crying toward the end of Old Yeller and I was bothered by the fact that the eye line shared between Travis and Old Yeller was not quite in sync during a cut before he shoots his pet, something was different about me.

My parents realized it the next day after seeing the aftermath of my trying to redo the scene properly and trying to align the eye line after shooting my dog for the 14th time and failing to capture it properly on our VHS hand recorder.

It was quite frustrating to me.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 01:49:55 PM by orthonorm »
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Online Alveus Lacuna

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Re: If you were a psychopath
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2011, 01:56:29 PM »
Well at age eight I began to realize that, when everyone was crying toward the end of Old Yeller and I was bothered by the fact that the eye line shared between Travis and Old Yeller was not quite in sync during a cut before he shoots his pet, something was different about me.

My parents realized it the next day after seeing the aftermath of my trying to redo the scene properly and trying to align the eye line after shooting my dog for the 14th time and failing to capture it properly on our VHS hand recorder.

It was quite frustrating to me.

I realized that something was different about me when I realized that everybody is different.

Offline Melodist

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Re: If you were a psychopath
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2011, 02:06:43 PM »
How do you know you're not a psychopath?

What makes you think I'm not?

Or are you trying to drop a hint?
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Re: If you were a psychopath
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2011, 02:20:56 PM »

Aposphet,

I am not a clinical psychologist, however, I would think that if you have an ounce of compassion towards others, you are not a psychopath.

Have you ever mourned?  Have you ever missed someone ( I know you have.)  Are you always self-centered, and don't really care about others (I know you do)?

I have seen you on the prayer forum, offering to pray for others, as well asking for them.  I have seen youthank people for sharing their stories, and you've shown concern for various forum members when they seemed to disappear.

From what I know of you, you are not an example of a psychopath.

So, if you are not, then people who are not like you, may be psychopaths. 

They would have no compassion, would feel superior, never be ashamed, never feel the need to explain themselves, and never cry due to sorrow or remorse.

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Offline orthonorm

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Re: If you were a psychopath
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2011, 02:44:46 PM »
If this discussion becomes a serious one, the answers are much more complicated.

Psycho- / sociopaths are capable of passing and the pathology is not necessarily an injurious one to themselves or others, unlike what Hollywood shows us.



 
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Offline sainthieu

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Re: If you were a psychopath
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2011, 04:12:57 PM »
I suspect one of the hallmarks of being a psychopath is an inability to recognize it. If you think you might possibly be a psychopath, you most likely are not---you just aggravate your loved ones. Lots of people have inappropriate emotional responses or exhibit maladaptive emotional behavior.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: If you were a psychopath
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2011, 04:21:04 PM »
It should be made clear if this thread continues, that psychopathy is a forensic term rather  than a clinical one. Don't think psychopathy has been in the DSM for a long time.

Like most syndromes it has been refined and better understood and now more precise diagnoses exist which at one time would have fell under this general term.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 04:21:35 PM by orthonorm »
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Offline akimori makoto

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Re: If you were a psychopath
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2011, 08:01:41 PM »
Yes, psychopathy is a general diagnostic term, not a specified DSM disorder.

However, I've also heard narcissistic personality disorder is being purged from the next edition of the DSM (as far as I can perceive, because narcissism is no longer statistically abnormal, nor is it usually of any detriment to the narcissist), so not sure how reliant we should be on it, haha.
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Re: If you were a psychopath
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2011, 08:18:17 PM »
Hare developed his Psycopath checklist in the 1990's.
My graduate professor said in our one class that a sociopath is someone that knows how to manipulate to get what he wants vis-a-vis using social norms/mores against others.
He used the used car salesman as an example; he went to look for a used car and the salesman said, "how much can you pay a month" versus actual pricing on cars when he (professor) asked how much a car cost. 

Offline orthonorm

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Re: If you were a psychopath
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2011, 09:55:21 PM »
Hare developed his Psycopath checklist in the 1990's.
My graduate professor said in our one class that a sociopath is someone that knows how to manipulate to get what he wants vis-a-vis using social norms/mores against others.
He used the used car salesman as an example; he went to look for a used car and the salesman said, "how much can you pay a month" versus actual pricing on cars when he (professor) asked how much a car cost. 


I hope you got your money back for that class.
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Offline Cymbyz

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Re: If you were a psychopath
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2011, 10:03:46 PM »
I have hard psychopathy defined as lacking a conscience.
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Offline Stephen St. Pierre

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Re: If you were a psychopath
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2011, 10:21:07 PM »
What do you mean "if"?

Quote
How would you know?

Oh you'd know.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: If you were a psychopath
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2011, 10:23:04 PM »
How do I fare?

Quote from: Hare's Checklist
1. GLIB and SUPERFICIAL CHARM -- the tendency to be smooth, engaging, charming, slick, and verbally facile. Psychopathic charm is not in the least shy, self-conscious, or afraid to say anything. A psychopath never gets tongue-tied. They have freed themselves from the social conventions about taking turns in talking, for example. orthonorm's Note: not all social groups have such conventions>

2. GRANDIOSE SELF-WORTH -- a grossly inflated view of one's abilities and self-worth, self-assured, opinionated, cocky, a braggart. Psychopaths are arrogant people who believe they are superior human beings.

3. NEED FOR STIMULATION or PRONENESS TO BOREDOM -- an excessive need for novel, thrilling, and exciting stimulation; taking chances and doing things that are risky. Psychopaths often have a low self-discipline in carrying tasks through to completion because they get bored easily. They fail to work at the same job for any length of time, for example, or to [fail] finish tasks that they consider dull or routine. orthonorm's Note: I've never been bored.

4. PATHOLOGICAL LYING -- can be moderate or high; in moderate form, they will be shrewd, crafty, cunning, sly, and clever; in extreme form, they will be deceptive, deceitful, underhanded, unscrupulous, manipulative, and dishonest.

5. CONNING AND MANIPULATIVENESS- the use of deceit and deception to cheat, con, or defraud others for personal gain; distinguished from Item #4 in the degree to which exploitation and callous ruthlessness is present, as reflected in a lack of concern for the feelings and suffering of one's victims.

6. LACK OF REMORSE OR GUILT -- a lack of feelings or concern for the losses, pain, and suffering of victims; a tendency to be unconcerned, dispassionate, coldhearted, and unempathic. This item is usually demonstrated by a disdain for one's victims.

7. SHALLOW AFFECT -- emotional poverty or a limited range or depth of feelings; interpersonal coldness in spite of signs of open gregariousness.

8. CALLOUSNESS and LACK OF EMPATHY -- a lack of feelings toward people in general; cold, contemptuous, inconsiderate, and tactless.

9. PARASITIC LIFESTYLE -- an intentional, manipulative, selfish, and exploitative financial dependence on others as reflected in a lack of motivation, low self-discipline, and inability to begin or complete responsibilities.

10. POOR BEHAVIORAL CONTROLS -- expressions of irritability, annoyance, impatience, threats, aggression, and verbal abuse; inadequate control of anger and temper; acting hastily.

11. PROMISCUOUS SEXUAL BEHAVIOR -- a variety of brief, superficial relations, numerous affairs, and an indiscriminate selection of sexual partners; the maintenance of several relationships at the same time; a history of attempts to sexually coerce others into sexual activity or taking great pride at discussing sexual exploits or conquests.

12. EARLY BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS -- a variety of behaviors prior to age 13, including lying, theft, cheating, vandalism, bullying, sexual activity, fire-setting, glue-sniffing [actually various solvents] alcohol use, and running away from home.

13. LACK OF REALISTIC, LONG-TERM GOALS -- an inability or persistent failure to develop and execute long-term plans and goals; a nomadic existence, aimless, lacking direction in life. orthonorm's Note: note the trumpeting of middle class values here.

14. IMPULSIVITY -- the occurrence of behaviors that are unpremeditated and lack reflection or planning; inability to resist temptation, frustrations, and urges; a lack of deliberation without considering the consequences; foolhardy, rash, unpredictable, erratic, and reckless.

15. IRRESPONSIBILITY -- repeated failure to fulfill or honor obligations and commitments; such as not paying bills, defaulting on loans, performing sloppy work, being absent or late to work, failing to honor contractual agreements.

16. FAILURE TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR OWN ACTIONS -- a failure to accept responsibility for one's actions reflected in low conscientiousness, an absence of dutifulness, antagonistic manipulation, denial of responsibility, and an effort to manipulate others through this denial.

17. MANY SHORT-TERM MARITAL RELATIONSHIPS -- a lack of commitment to a long-term relationship reflected in inconsistent, undependable, and unreliable commitments in life, including marital.

18. JUVENILE DELINQUENCY -- behavior problems between the ages of 13-18; mostly behaviors that are crimes or clearly involve aspects of antagonism, exploitation, aggression, manipulation, or a callous, ruthless tough-mindedness.

19. REVOCATION OF CONDITION RELEASE -- a revocation of probation or other conditional release due to technical violations, such as carelessness, low deliberation, or failing to appear.

20. CRIMINAL VERSATILITY -- a diversity of types of criminal offenses, regardless if the person has been arrested or convicted for them; taking great pride at getting away with crimes. orthonorm's Note: hey, I locked myself outta my place. The neighbors doubted that I could break in to my own place easily and quickly. Quickly done. They were impressed. It is kinda cool no matter what this bore says about certain less lawful skills.



http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/narcissism/psychopathy_checklist.html

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EDIT: Allota psychology is silly. I had a hell of a time as a kid, didn't need this checklist to tell me. The effects of that childhood lasted into early, adulthood. Again: shocker.

Therapy is works wonders. I have my therapist convinced all the above marked portions are true, so that he doesn't realize that I am truly a psychopath.

I sorta feel bad about deceiving him.

  
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 10:28:26 PM by orthonorm »
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Offline Cognomen

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Re: If you were a psychopath
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2011, 10:42:15 PM »
Therapy is works wonders. I have my therapist convinced all the above marked portions are true, so that he doesn't realize that I am truly a psychopath.

I sorta feel bad about deceiving him.

I thought that's what we were supposed to do.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: If you were a psychopath
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2011, 10:52:46 PM »
Yes, psychopathy is a general diagnostic term, not a specified DSM disorder.

However, I've also heard narcissistic personality disorder is being purged from the next edition of the DSM (as far as I can perceive, because narcissism is no longer statistically abnormal, nor is it usually of any detriment to the narcissist), so not sure how reliant we should be on it, haha.

I am going to look into the fact it is being taken out, but the fact that it doesn't disorder the person's life and those around them is insane (as narcissist personality disorder has been classically defined and experienced phenomenologically).

Since so many of the "personality" disorders ("personality" will eventually be shucked altogether, I promise) overlap in their diagnostic criteria, it could be a case of pairing down some of the diagnoses via conflation as to make diagnostic consensus more easily to be achieved among clinicians.

Interesting stuff.

 
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Offline akimori makoto

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Re: If you were a psychopath
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2011, 11:21:51 PM »
What is with all the polymaths on this forum? Is there any subject you people don't know more than your fair share about?

Yes, psychopathy is a general diagnostic term, not a specified DSM disorder.

However, I've also heard narcissistic personality disorder is being purged from the next edition of the DSM (as far as I can perceive, because narcissism is no longer statistically abnormal, nor is it usually of any detriment to the narcissist), so not sure how reliant we should be on it, haha.

I am going to look into the fact it is being taken out, but the fact that it doesn't disorder the person's life and those around them is insane (as narcissist personality disorder has been classically defined and experienced phenomenologically).

Since so many of the "personality" disorders ("personality" will eventually be shucked altogether, I promise) overlap in their diagnostic criteria, it could be a case of pairing down some of the diagnoses via conflation as to make diagnostic consensus more easily to be achieved among clinicians.

Interesting stuff.

I'm sure the true reasons for the drop from the DSM are more complex than I am painting them. Still, I was a bit perturbed when I heard.
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Offline Punch

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Re: If you were a psychopath
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2011, 03:01:03 PM »
I used to perform volunteer work in an asylum.  It was an old Kirkbride building where people were still separated into wards, with the farther wards being the most "insane" or "retarded" or whatever the current, yet soon to be scrapped for something more politiaclly correct, term is.  In any case, I was walking through one of the outer wards with a couple of the orderlies, and the residents were quite interested in someone from the "outside" visiting them.  One of the orderlies asked me if I was afraid to be in there. I asked why I should be.  He wondered if it bothered me to be surrounded by insane people.  I told him that the only reason these people were in there was because there are more of us than there are them.  In there, we were the insane.  One the other hand, it was somewhat distracting to hold a Bible Study with "God" continually correcting you and saying either "I did NOT say that", or "that is NOT what I meant".

In any case, it seems logical that the DSM-V does not list psycopathy as a disorder because it is not one.  It is more a reaction to an existing disorder, at least as I have been taught.  As an example, I am the grandson of a Nazi.  Like many of the Nazis, there is a battle within me between extreme cruelty and compassion.  Himler, who oversaw the death of millions, would get sick if you spoke about hunting during dinner.  Like many of them, I naturally segregate groups and individuals, and see them completely different.  I would have no problem ordering a group to their death.  However, I am moved to tears by the suffering of an individual.  Most would say this is a disorder.  I am one of those.  That is why I am not considered psychotic.  I can tell right from wrong, and can understand that some of my "natural" tendencies are wrong, even if it is not by concience but by some other outside force.  A psychopath cannot make this distinction.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: If you were a psychopath
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2011, 04:25:45 PM »
If?
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Offline TristanCross

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Re: If you were a psychopath
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2011, 10:25:42 PM »
Weird input:

I always thought of something similar to this. How do people know they are color blind? If they see pink as red, they will still call it pink. How would we know they are seeing different colors?
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Offline quietmorning

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Re: If you were a psychopath
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2011, 05:36:23 PM »
I can tell right from wrong, and can understand that some of my "natural" tendencies are wrong, even if it is not by concience but by some other outside force.  A psychopath cannot make this distinction.

A psychopath can tell right from wrong - and do often - they just don't care.  They absolutely can make the distinction - but in their warped sense of being - they are above it and could care less.  Others that do care are considered weak, making them an opportunistic 'thing' of use. What a psychopath cannot discern is the truth of humanity.  You and I in the mind of a psychopath or a sociopath is simply an object - not a human being - a tool to use for their own ends.  If you as a tool breaks, you as a tool are simply discarded or worse, killed.  If you as a tool is for the object of a sick fantasy to become pieces in some ditch, then you were fully functional until he was done with his 'project'.  

There are no other needs but their own - no other beliefs but their own. . .no other pleasures but their own. Psychopaths can feel, but it is very shallow without dimension.

A psychopath can understand full well they are a psychopath, but they don't care and will use the information to their advantage.  They know murder is wrong, but will rationalize it to their benefit.  

I've lived with a psychopath for ten years.  I have two, possibly three sociopaths in my current life.  Makes for some hard days.  

If you are asking yourself if you are a psychopath or a sociopath - then you are either asking (if you are) because you want to cover your tracks from being 'outed' so that you are not impeded from your ends - or (if you are not) you care about people and how you effect them - which is something a true psychopath or sociopath would never give a hoot about.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2011, 05:40:44 PM by quietmorning »
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