Author Topic: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day  (Read 5861 times)

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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #270 on: May 06, 2015, 04:32:38 PM »
Interestingly enough the Synod of Laodicea (accepted by the EO, don't know about OO) forbids subdeacons the orarion and Byzantine ordination rubrics calls the subdeaon's vestment a cincture which like the little phelon of the reader is used only at ordination.  (Somebody posted pictures of this at byzcath) The subdeacon assumes the crossed orarion in contravention of the canon afterwards.
https://books.google.com/books?id=TjswAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA140&lpg=PA140&dq=canons+against+subdeacons+wearing+stoles&source=bl&ots=gd_XeHOL2_&sig=O7CtR-0T1ALVT_2kIxt1MxMNod0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cnhKVeP_DpLlsASt3YGoBQ&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=canons%20against%20subdeacons%20wearing%20stoles&f=false
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 04:34:26 PM by Deacon Lance »
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

Online Mor Ephrem

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #271 on: May 06, 2015, 04:58:22 PM »
A rose by any other name...  They are wearing them in the style of Latin deacons but those are stoles.  The Assyrians and Chaldeans have been giving stoles to their women cantors and readers too.

In those photos, yes, I would say they are stoles.  But either they are functioning as these sashes



and are simply part of the choir costume, or they are proper stoles, in which case they are doubly wrong. 
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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #272 on: May 06, 2015, 05:00:05 PM »
Interestingly enough the Synod of Laodicea (accepted by the EO, don't know about OO) forbids subdeacons the orarion and Byzantine ordination rubrics calls the subdeaon's vestment a cincture which like the little phelon of the reader is used only at ordination.  (Somebody posted pictures of this at byzcath) The subdeacon assumes the crossed orarion in contravention of the canon afterwards.
https://books.google.com/books?id=TjswAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA140&lpg=PA140&dq=canons+against+subdeacons+wearing+stoles&source=bl&ots=gd_XeHOL2_&sig=O7CtR-0T1ALVT_2kIxt1MxMNod0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cnhKVeP_DpLlsASt3YGoBQ&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=canons%20against%20subdeacons%20wearing%20stoles&f=false

The canons recognised by Syriac tradition include canons prohibiting stoles to subdeacons and readers as well as canons allowing them.
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline Salpy

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #273 on: May 09, 2015, 02:13:35 AM »
I think they are in Washington.



Offline Salpy

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #274 on: May 09, 2015, 02:14:44 AM »

Offline Salpy

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #275 on: May 09, 2015, 06:54:12 PM »
Newly consecrated church in Yerevan:






Offline Salpy

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #276 on: May 09, 2015, 06:57:47 PM »

Offline biro

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #277 on: May 09, 2015, 07:07:54 PM »
For posts 274 and 275, I can't see the pictures. :(
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Offline Salpy

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #278 on: May 09, 2015, 08:55:59 PM »

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #279 on: May 09, 2015, 08:58:30 PM »
The connection is quite slow, but the images do eventually appear.

Offline Brigidsboy

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #280 on: May 09, 2015, 09:12:02 PM »
A rose by any other name...  They are wearing them in the style of Latin deacons but those are stoles.  The Assyrians and Chaldeans have been giving stoles to their women cantors and readers too.


I have no idea what the Chaldeans do but the Church of the East does not have women cantors with stoles, at least not in the United States. The local Syriac Archbishop will bless the veils of female choir members but that is as far as it goes.
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #281 on: May 09, 2015, 11:23:29 PM »
The connection is quite slow, but the images do eventually appear.

Ya, they do load really slow for some reason.
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Offline biro

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #282 on: May 10, 2015, 03:04:32 AM »
Okay, now I can see them. :)
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #283 on: May 10, 2015, 03:05:59 AM »
me too...it seems that the server from where the pictures came from struggled a bit
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Online Aram

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #284 on: May 10, 2015, 09:18:23 PM »
Interestingly enough the Synod of Laodicea (accepted by the EO, don't know about OO) forbids subdeacons the orarion and Byzantine ordination rubrics calls the subdeaon's vestment a cincture which like the little phelon of the reader is used only at ordination.  (Somebody posted pictures of this at byzcath) The subdeacon assumes the crossed orarion in contravention of the canon afterwards.
https://books.google.com/books?id=TjswAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA140&lpg=PA140&dq=canons+against+subdeacons+wearing+stoles&source=bl&ots=gd_XeHOL2_&sig=O7CtR-0T1ALVT_2kIxt1MxMNod0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cnhKVeP_DpLlsASt3YGoBQ&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=canons%20against%20subdeacons%20wearing%20stoles&f=false

The canons recognised by Syriac tradition include canons prohibiting stoles to subdeacons and readers as well as canons allowing them.
Technically speaking, Armenian subdeacons (literally rendered in Armenian as "half-deacons") should not wear the stole over their shoulder. Rather, it is worn folded in half over the left forearm. At the ordination, the stole is laid over the arm, and is supposed to wear it that way until/if they're ordained a full deacon. For me, I wore it on my arm the day I was ordained, and like everyone else, just started wearing it over my shoulder thereafter. It was just an unspoken understanding. When I was ordained a deacon, I wore it over my shoulder until the ordination began, and then moved it back down to my arm. Some places still do it in the traditional way, but it's not that common. Frankly, it's really difficult to do anything with the stole just hanging half-folded over your arm like that. Incredibly impractical.

There was also a minor craze in the United States back in the 70s and 80s for ordaining "stole-bearers," a kind of middle ground between the four minor orders (tbir, or clerk/acolyte) and subdeacon. They'd wear stoles, but with the same color robes worn by the acolytes/choir, rather than the deacon's robes (in most parishes I've been around, deacons wear blue, choir wears red, though sometimes that's reversed). It was more an honorary thing for longtime altar servers than anything with defined duties, and didn't really have a canonical basis, either. It's not that common anymore, if even done at all, though there are still a few now-middle-aged-to-elderly stole-bearers floating around out there.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 09:19:48 PM by Aram »

Offline Salpy

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #285 on: May 13, 2015, 01:32:12 AM »
A while back someone was telling me about Coptic churches that are built to look like boats, or perhaps Noah's Ark.  I also think it was discussed here at one point.  I never quite got the concept, though.

Is anyone able to post pictures of examples of that architecture?  Do people know what I am talking about?

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #286 on: May 13, 2015, 08:03:38 AM »
I haven't really heard this, but now that I look at it, perhaps, St. Mark's Cathedral where the Papal headquarters are might be a good example:

Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Salpy

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #287 on: May 14, 2015, 01:08:49 AM »
That's probably it.  The symbolism is interesting.  I guess it's the Church being like Noah's Ark carrying the people to salvation, or something like that.  It's nice.

Offline jobin219

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #288 on: May 16, 2015, 10:28:19 PM »
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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #289 on: May 17, 2015, 07:31:20 PM »
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #290 on: May 17, 2015, 07:39:40 PM »
Wow. How old is that?
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