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Offline akimori makoto

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I can barely abide Church these days
« on: October 08, 2011, 09:10:24 PM »
I'm at my wit's end. The obscene, disrespectful, generally irreverent and personally rude behaviour that goes on in my parish is slowly driving me to stop going to Church.

Please pray that I will get my head and heart in the right place and keep going to Church.
The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.

Offline zekarja

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2011, 09:23:27 PM »
Lord, have mercy! I pray that things get better. Remember the prize at the end of the race.

Offline Riddikulus

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2011, 09:25:23 PM »
Lord, have mercy on your servant.
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Offline Stephanos Nikolaos

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2011, 09:25:49 PM »
Lord, have mercy!
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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2011, 09:43:29 PM »
Lord have mercy on you and your parish.

Wisdom of the Father, Jesus, give to your servant the wisdom to be able to discern how to approach this current situation, amen.

Offline biro

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2011, 10:36:10 PM »
Lord have mercy.
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Offline Cognomen

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2011, 10:39:41 PM »
Very sorry to read this.  Lord, have mercy.

Where's the priest in this mess?
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2011, 11:02:24 PM »
Lord, have mercy!

Offline Hiwot

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2011, 11:23:25 PM »
Lord have mercy!
ah! i would also say whatever you do, do not engage this spirit directly with those that it motivates, it will only harm you, takes away you peace, so stay calm and pray for the spirit of humility and love, attend all the services,keep in mind that sometimes trials come to the individual or to the group as a whole, so this is a time to hold on. the whole parish needs prayers right now, this is not an easy matter. i have seen parishes unravelled when this spirit took over. Lord have mercy!
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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2011, 11:51:55 PM »
Lord have mercy.

Maybe you should try a different parish.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2011, 12:49:26 AM »
Lord have mercy!


If your parish didn't have saint-makers, how would you become a saint?
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2011, 01:24:22 AM »
Lord have mercy!
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Offline Robb

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2011, 01:48:28 AM »
Lord have mercy, is there perhaps another parish you could go to (If your curent one is causing you to fall into such despair)?
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2011, 02:12:24 AM »
Lord, have mercy.
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Offline arnI

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2011, 08:05:46 AM »
I'm at my wit's end. The obscene, disrespectful, generally irreverent and personally rude behaviour that goes on in my parish is slowly driving me to stop going to Church.

Please pray that I will get my head and heart in the right place and keep going to Church.

During Divine Services? During social time after Services? During other activities?

My own guidelines for Services:  Sit as close to the front as possible and close to the center. Focus on the Services (Priest/Chanters/Choir/etc.) without regard to what go on behind or beside you. Prior to and after communion focus on the preparation and thanksgiving prayers. Have a prayer taped in your Service book or otherwise available to pray during times that you may be easily distracted.
Grant me to see my own errors and not to judge my brother

Offline SDMPNS

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2011, 08:26:51 AM »
I have the same problem but I've just let go and look to my own behavior..People in my parish talk and jabber during Church and while they go up to Communion shake hands and visit..I do not know their heart and I cannot and will not judge..I remember how I was raised and how my Baba and mother taught me how to behave so all of this is on me...I do ,however,refuse to talk in Church beyond a nod and "good morning"...Its kind of funny when people start to engage and I just say. " I'm sorry but I was taught to not talk in Church"....
I often wonder what people believe happens during Communion..but I know what I was taught so I behave accordingly.."put away all earthly cares" includes who is dating whom and how hard it is to find a parking place and all of this can be discussed during coffee hour if it needs to be discussed at all......
Having pews {YUCK} does make it more difficult to move...

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2011, 02:29:45 PM »
Lord have mercy!


If your parish didn't have saint-makers, how would you become a saint?

Exactly.

This may sound trite, but it's just distilled from what I've read about holy people. When we adopt a positive attitude toward others, especially if they aggravate us, we create a change for the better in them and in us. Rather than become angry and stay away, we ought all the more to struggle and keep going and ask for God's help to be able to see our disrespectful brethren as still better than ourselves, for the visible hardly ever corresponds, in the truth of things, to the invisible. Our Lord appeared as an ordinary man, and yet was God. We appear pious, and yet harbor all kinds of filth in our hearts. Others may appear impious and disrespectful, and yet they do not indulge in passions as we do. We can't know. We are called to be a light to the world and to bear the burdens of others.

May God help you, them, and all of us.
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Offline IsmiLiora

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2011, 04:02:03 PM »
Oh Akimori, I know how you feel. :( the others do have good points about sticking it out. of course it is ultimately your decision but an ailing church needs people and belong to the body of the church in their unique way. If we all just left, what will be left?

I feel I might be sympathetic to your circumstances so Pm me if you need to rant.

Lord have mercy!
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2011, 05:21:15 PM »
I totally understand where you're coming from, Akimori. I have wrestled with these same issues.  While it is easy to agree with Isa and stick it out for the sake of the kingdom, it is always so much harder to do it.  And while it is easy to also leave to find another parish, I don't think any parish (outside of a monastic church) will give you that sense of "quiet" for you to appropriately pray for your soul and those of others.  So, I am sorry that I have no solutions to give to you.  But your prayers are also mine.

One thing that you should absolutely do which has been already suggested:  Please, talk to your priest.  And do so, ASAP.

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Offline Clancy Boy

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2011, 06:12:48 PM »
Try a ROCOR church.

Offline samkim

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2011, 06:50:58 PM »
I'm at my wit's end. The obscene, disrespectful, generally irreverent and personally rude behaviour that goes on in my parish is slowly driving me to stop going to Church.

Please pray that I will get my head and heart in the right place and keep going to Church.

I used to have similar thoughts about my own parish, then I realized it's no more than I deserve. Who am I to complain? Ya know...
주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.

Offline akimori makoto

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2011, 10:28:34 PM »
Sensitive and nuanced advice from different perspectives -- thank you all so much for taking the time to pray for this unworthy sinner.
The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.

Offline akimori makoto

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2011, 10:29:11 PM »
Try a ROCOR church.

This is quickly becoming an attractive option.
The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.

Offline Shiny

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2011, 10:51:02 PM »
Try a ROCOR church.

This is quickly becoming an attractive option.
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Offline FountainPen

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2011, 08:31:38 PM »
akimori makoto
Quote
Please pray that I will get my head and heart in the right place and keep going to Church.

Still praying and hoping that this is the case.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 08:32:51 PM by FountainPen »
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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2011, 08:55:00 PM »
Me too.
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Offline akimori makoto

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2012, 03:54:34 PM »
*Bump*

Immediately following forgiveness vespers (I kid you not), my mum and I got verbally abused and physically intimidated by insane Greeks for our apparently bad parking.

What is with these people? How do they call themselves Christians when they are so full of malice and spite and hypocrisy? Is this a church or some sort of glorified marketplace of whores, robbers and liars?

I can't take this crap any more. I feel like I am going to snap one day and find the most WASP-y church possible and start attending there, just for a little sanity ...
The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2012, 03:56:48 PM »
*Bump*

Immediately following forgiveness vespers (I kid you not), my mum and I got verbally abused and physically intimidated by insane Greeks for our apparently bad parking.

What is with these people? How do they call themselves Christians when they are so full of malice and spite and hypocrisy? Is this a church or some sort of glorified marketplace of whores, robbers and liars?

I can't take this crap any more. I feel like I am going to snap one day and find the most WASP-y church possible and start attending there, just for a little sanity ...
Akimori,

Please leave Australia. Come to America or Canada. There is nothing for you in that forsaken desert.

Have you ever looked at a Kangaroo's arms? No animal should have to have such arms.

Lord, have mercy
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Πλούσιοι επτώχευσαν και επείνασαν
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Ουκ ελαττωθήσονται παντός αγαθού

Offline FountainPen

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2012, 04:23:22 PM »
*Bump*

Immediately following forgiveness vespers (I kid you not), my mum and I got verbally abused and physically intimidated by insane Greeks for our apparently bad parking.

What is with these people? How do they call themselves Christians when they are so full of malice and spite and hypocrisy? Is this a church or some sort of glorified marketplace of whores, robbers and liars?

I can't take this crap any more. I feel like I am going to snap one day and find the most WASP-y church possible and start attending there, just for a little sanity ...
Akimori,

Please leave Australia. Come to America or Canada. There is nothing for you in that forsaken desert.

Have you ever looked at a Kangaroo's arms? No animal should have to have such arms.

Lord, have mercy

Nicholas might have a point. I'd consider Britain as well; we have nice butterflies and no guns.

#laughs

Seriously though, i am still praying for your situation.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 04:23:59 PM by FountainPen »
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Offline vamrat

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2012, 05:44:13 PM »
*Bump*

Immediately following forgiveness vespers (I kid you not), my mum and I got verbally abused and physically intimidated by insane Greeks for our apparently bad parking.

What is with these people? How do they call themselves Christians when they are so full of malice and spite and hypocrisy? Is this a church or some sort of glorified marketplace of whores, robbers and liars?

I can't take this crap any more. I feel like I am going to snap one day and find the most WASP-y church possible and start attending there, just for a little sanity ...
Akimori,

Please leave Australia. Come to America or Canada. There is nothing for you in that forsaken desert.

Have you ever looked at a Kangaroo's arms? No animal should have to have such arms.

Lord, have mercy

Nicholas might have a point. I'd consider Britain as well; we have nice butterflies and no guns.

#laughs

Seriously though, i am still praying for your situation.

You're more than welcome to come to Omaha.  We have plenty of nice Orthodox Churches in town and we haven't hung or run Greeks out of town since the early 1900's!

Also, we too have butterflies, and lots of guns!

All the same, I will pray for you that God gives you comfort in this issue, my friend.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline mabsoota

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2012, 06:12:30 PM »
fountain pen, didn't know u were in britain too, did u actually see any butterflies yet? it is much warmer than last week, so maybe there are some already. i wish u a lovely spring with many butterflies.

aikimori makoto, i also think u should visit another orthodox church. not to leave yr church, but just to find some spiritual food while u work on becoming a saint so u can love yr church more (and when u are a saint, pls tell us sinners how to love others more as well!)
if the other churches are terrible too, maybe u have a problem and u will get an idea what u have to work on. if the other churches are much more helpful, then u will have the spiritual nourishment u need to learn how to deal with yr church. sometimes people in the church do need to make changes, but u need to be humble about it, and i pray God will show u how to do that.

Offline Maximum Bob

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #31 on: February 29, 2012, 12:23:00 AM »
Lord, have mercy.
Psalm 37:23 The Lord guides a man safely in the way he should go.

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Offline Ionnis

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #32 on: February 29, 2012, 12:28:54 AM »
:( Lord have mercy!
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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #33 on: February 29, 2012, 12:58:27 AM »
Lord have mercy.

Perhaps look into the ROCOR or an Old Calendar Church?
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Offline IXOYE

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #34 on: February 29, 2012, 01:07:28 AM »
Lord, have mercy!

Offline katherine 2001

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #35 on: February 29, 2012, 07:55:04 AM »
I hate to tell you this, but there are sinners in the ROCOR and Old Calendar churches as well.  I bet any priests of those churches would tell you that you could very well run into these problems at any parish, unfortunately. 

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #36 on: February 29, 2012, 12:05:10 PM »
Lord have mercy.
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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #37 on: February 29, 2012, 01:40:45 PM »
Have you shared these thoughts with your priest in confession?
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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #38 on: February 29, 2012, 02:24:04 PM »

Akimori, I'm sorry to hear how you were treated!  Remember, these are just people, and they aren't perfect.  Perhaps the husband and wife quarreled and simply took their frustration out on you.

You should pity the poor souls who can't control their temper, their actions or words.

You're need to simply "let it go".  I know it's hard, but, people will be rude to you, no matter where you are.  Don't take it to heart.

...like water off a ducks back.

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline Papist

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #39 on: February 29, 2012, 03:56:44 PM »
Lord, have mercy.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline akimori makoto

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #40 on: February 29, 2012, 05:13:39 PM »
Thank you all so much, for the prayers, the encouragement, the advice and for just allowing me a place to vent.
The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.

Offline akimori makoto

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #41 on: February 29, 2012, 05:15:11 PM »
Have you shared these thoughts with your priest in confession?

I haven't, because I feel a strong temptation to allow the confession to become a private bitching session.

Father is aware of how I feel, though perhaps not the specifics of what goes on when he's not looking.
The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #42 on: February 29, 2012, 05:55:33 PM »
I think you should go for anyway. Tell him to tell you to shut up if you get too rant-ish, since you're worried about it.  ;)

At the very least, he should probably know some of the specifics.
Every day we should hear at least one little song, read one good poem, see one exquisite picture, and, if possible, speak a few sensible words. -Goethe

I once heard a monk say, “The person of prayer does not need to go any further than his own heart to find the source of all violence in the world.” -Fr. Stephen Freeman

Offline augustin717

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #43 on: February 29, 2012, 05:57:15 PM »
In cases like that I would have just cussed back, and barely remembered the incident after. It works better.

Offline Punch

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Re: I can barely abide Church these days
« Reply #44 on: February 29, 2012, 06:12:24 PM »
In cases like that I would have just cussed back, and barely remembered the incident after. It works better.

I am pretty much with you on this one.  Better to have to confess a few terse words said to these people than have my whole faith in danger because I held it in.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.