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Author Topic: Weddings  (Read 3192 times) Average Rating: 0
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spartacus
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« on: August 04, 2004, 03:33:04 PM »

SInce my wife and I converted we have been wondering about taking our wedding vows again in an Orthoddox Christina service. I am interested in seeing people's opinions and explanations......
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Donna Rose
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« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2004, 03:41:12 PM »

i heard that there is a service of some sort for this, in which you go in and receive a special blessing from an Orthodox priest which, i would imagine, makes your marriage sacramental in the church's eyes (not that it isn't already lol sorry im probably confusing you when i dont know much about it myself)...

maybe others who know more can fill in the blanks and tell you more about this?
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hmmmm...
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« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2004, 08:00:45 PM »


I just finished reading Fr. John Meyendorff's 'Marriage: An Orthodox Perspective', which I heartily recommend to everyone for answers to questions like this.

On this particular topic, he argued that part of the problem is that the historic intimate connection between Marriage and the Eucharist has been broken in the minds of most people.  He argues that all of the Holy Mysteries are rendered such in part by their connection to the Eucharist.  Therefore, he argues, what makes an Orthodox marriage different than a non-sacramental marriage, be it civil or in another religious context, is that it is focused on the married couple receiving the Eucharist together.

Therefore, the idea of remarriage is off base, because it gives some other portion of the marriage rite a form of 'mystical power' that isn't held by it.  A couple's marriage is brought into the Mystery of Christ and His Bride the Church as soon as the couple receives the Eucharist together after being admitted to the Church.

So...I'm going to defer to him on this one.  It makes sense to me.

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« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2004, 11:00:22 PM »

I put, "it depends on the couple," because the word "only" in several of the choices excluded all others, and I think it really can apply to more than just one of the situations.

As for whether or not couples married outside the Church should be remarried, it's not the tradition of any Orthodox Church I've heard of -- even the more "traditionalist" ones, though I could be wrong -- to "remarry" convert couples (though it wouldn't surprise me if this were the case, since the resistance idea is that there are no sacraments outside the Church).

Basically, Donna Rose is right; there is a "prayer of blessing" where the heterodox wedding is "filled in," as it were.  There are no vows given in an Orthodox wedding, so there'd be nothing to renew; the only thing both people do in a wedding is proclaim before God and all present that they each have a "good, free, and unconstrained will" to be united to the other.  Then, through the liturgy, they are united by God, rather than proclaim their intentions to live united.
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ania
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« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2004, 04:52:45 PM »

I know many couples in Russia, some of them my relatives, & though most have been baptised, I do not know how many of them have had church marriages.  Several of them have been married a long time, married during the Soviet era, and didn't have the chance for an Orthodox wedding.  Some leave it status quo, some went back/are planning to go back & get the church's blessing.  
I've been at a few ceremonies that couples who are newly Orthodox want the blessing.  The priest always just did the "Venchaniya" (actual marriage) and didn't do the "Obrucheniya" (betrothal).
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« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2004, 12:13:25 PM »

My wife and I were chrismated in April, our priest (GOA) said we should me married in an Orthodox ceremony. Basically, they do not recognize any marriage performed outside of the church.

John
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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2004, 05:21:22 PM »

There are no "vows" in the Orthodox Sacrament of Marriage.   Check the text of the marriage service if you don't believe me.
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Thomas
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« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2004, 08:03:57 PM »

MY wife and I were married by the Orthodox Christian Church in a (GOA) ceremony on our 15th wedding anniversary.  Our children were our attendants and our God Parents the best man and matron of honor. While we have been married now for  32 years, our Orthodox Anniversary makes it 17 years this year. We never regretted it and we have wonderful pictures of our Orthodox wedding that we bring out to dshare with  visitors and well wishers on our anniversary.

Our anniversary was selected because it exhibited how God makes all things new in the Church by blessing and sanctifying it.

In Christ,
Thomas
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« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2004, 09:34:48 PM »

Hmm...strange...never actually heard of Orthodox churches not recognizing heterodox marriages and, thus, instead of simply blessing the married couple, "re-marries" them...to do this and then only chrismate converts seems...inconsistent?
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« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2004, 01:08:52 PM »

Well, we were required by our bishop to get remarried, even though we were married in the BC church with a crowining ceremony, etc.  I think our priest was quite surprised that we had to go through it.  

I could be wrong, but doesn't at least either the bride or groom have to be chrismated before you can get married in the church?  If that's the case, then the marriage ceremony makes sense.
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« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2004, 08:51:16 PM »

The phrase used in our parish (and elsewhere that I have been) is "having the marriage blessed."  The service is a modified wedding service, focused on "the crowning."  

One loosely could compare the requirement (which it is in many places) to have one's marriage blessed to the requirement to having a person baptized outside of the Church merely chrismated.  The analogy (used earlier in the thread, I think) is that of "completing" that which was insufficient on its own.  

In parish practice, I more often hear of a marriage blessing being adamantly "required" in the Greek archdiocese.  In my OCA parish, it is encouraged, rather than legislated.  Nearly every married couple that I know of, who came into the faith already married, asked to have their marriage blessed.

I don't agree with JohnCassian's thoughts because marriage is one of the Orthodox mysteries.  Whatever marriage service was participated in by the married couple differed radically in spiritual content from the Orthodox service.  The separation of the sacrament of marriage from the sacrament of Holy Communion occured centuries ago.  We can't re-form history and claim that receiving Communion, standing one-before-the-other in the Communion line, confers the same spiritual content as does the rite of blessing a marriage.    

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spartacus
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« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2004, 04:50:00 PM »

MY wife and I were married by the Orthodox Christian Church in a (GOA) ceremony on our 15th wedding anniversary.  Our children were our attendants and our God Parents the best man and matron of honor. While we have been married now for  32 years, our Orthodox Anniversary makes it 17 years this year. We never regretted it and we have wonderful pictures of our Orthodox wedding that we bring out to dshare with  visitors and well wishers on our anniversary.

Our anniversary was selected because it exhibited how God makes all things new in the Church by blessing and sanctifying it.

In Christ,
Thomas

I like this Thomas. My wife and I were married more than 16 years ago in the Roman Catholic Church by my wife's cousin who is also a RC priest. Our marriage is very sound. We have found a spiritual home in the Orthdox Church. Our marriage has been renewed in Christ and His true Church.

Perhaps on an upcoming anniversary?
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« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2004, 02:57:22 PM »

My husband and I were married in a BC ceremony and were chrismated last year, we didn't have to get "remarried" in the Orthodox church. It was my understanding that if a couple had a civil ceremony or were married in a church that didn't have valid sacrements needed to be "remarried" in the Orthodox church.

At any rate, I would ask your priest.
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spartacus
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« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2004, 04:40:36 PM »

My husband and I were married in a BC ceremony and were chrismated last year, we didn't have to get "remarried" in the Orthodox church. It was my understanding that if a couple had a civil ceremony or were married in a church that didn't have valid sacrements needed to be "remarried" in the Orthodox church.

At any rate, I would ask your priest.



I know the Orthodox Church views sacrements in the Roman Catholic Church as valid...even accpeting Roman Catholic Holy Orders for priests....

We were never told we "had" to undergo any ceremony in our Orthodox Church.
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Donna Rose
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« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2004, 06:29:20 PM »

Quote
I know the Orthodox Church views sacrements in the Roman Catholic Church as valid

woa this is news to me  Huh

the strongest statement of affirmation i have ever heard of, which is accepted widely among Orthodox (altho this is contestable as well), is that the Orthodox Church DOES NOT/CANNOT know for sure if Latin sacraments are valid or not, and so they (the Orthodox Church) call upon the power of economy in many cases to avoid directly transgressing against the Holy Spirit by redoing, let's say, a baptism that might have been valid the first time (at least this reason is the only one that is serious enough IMO to even consider accepting non-Orthodox sacraments as partially valid).

this discussion, which i do not mean to open up again since i think many threads have covered it already, less often directly addresses the holy mysteries of matrimony and ordination, and so when spartacus said:

Quote
even accpeting Roman Catholic Holy Orders for priests

i can affirm that i may have heard of something like this happening, but from friends who do more research than i, so i can supply no references.

as for matrimony, the logic would follow that a non-Orthodox wedding may have partial validity in the act itself, but not complete validity, and maybe that blessing ceremony discussed earlier is the moment in which the Church recognizes it as valid...? i don't know this to be true, im only saying what makes sense. it could be that the holy mystery of matrimony is more than a ceremony, but an ongoing sacrament that remains sacramental in nature throughout the couple's whole life, the idea being that it is a mystery that occurs ONCE only for each couple, but the ONCE extends over their entire life, and so when they become orthodox themselves, so does their marriage.

just my thoughts on the matter Smiley
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spartacus
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« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2004, 11:49:10 AM »

Donna Rose,

It is my understanding that the Orthodox Church recognizes that there is "some" truth withing the Roman Catholic Church and that the RC sacrements are viewed "valid" as a result.

However, something can be vaild without being "correct" or rather Orthodox.

At least that is my understanding based on conversations I have had with my priests.
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« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2009, 08:42:59 AM »

Quote
The priest always just did the "Venchaniya" (actual marriage) and didn't do the "Obrucheniya" (betrothal).

I would like to have my marriage blessed in the Orthodox church.  I've spoken to my priest and he is agreeable but is unaware of any special prayers, etc. except for the traditional marriage prayers.  A quick search of the forum resulted in the above quote.  Can someone confirm that this remains the case for an Orthodox married to Christian Protestant?  Or is there another prayer that is generally used?

Thanks.
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« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2009, 03:06:25 PM »

I know many couples in Russia, some of them my relatives, & though most have been baptised, I do not know how many of them have had church marriages.  Several of them have been married a long time, married during the Soviet era, and didn't have the chance for an Orthodox wedding.  Some leave it status quo, some went back/are planning to go back & get the church's blessing.  
I've been at a few ceremonies that couples who are newly Orthodox want the blessing.  The priest always just did the "Venchaniya" (actual marriage) and didn't do the "Obrucheniya" (betrothal).

That is correct Ania, no betrothal, only venchanya
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