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Author Topic: Vatican sets up Administrator for Russian Eastern Catholic Church  (Read 8519 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: September 01, 2004, 11:06:00 AM »


Hasn't the Pope and the Vatican been stating all along they had no intentions of setting up a Eastern Catholic Church in Russia?  Just one of many things the RCC says and then turns their back on (like the Quadrapartite Agreement).  And then they wonder why we don't trust them!  

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===============

[Where is cardinal Huzar in all of this?}]


http://portal-credo.ru/site/print.php?act=news&id=26338

Council of Russian Greek-Catholics appointed an administrator of the
Russian Exarchate and promoted him to the rank of protopresbyter

The first clergy council of the Russian Catholic Church of the
Byzantine Rite to take place in the last 80 years took place in Omsk
at the end of August according to a correspondent of "Portal-
Credo.Ru."  Participating in the council session were: the priest in
charge of the Omsk Greek-Catholic parish, priest Sergiy Golovanov,
members of the Monastic Brotherhood of St. Basil the Great
(Basilians) Igumen Rostislav (Kolupayev), Igumen Filipp (Maizerov)
Hieromonk Alipiy (Medvedev), and also Hieromonk Kirill (Mironov).

The Council decided to appoint as the temporary administrator of the
Russian Catholic Church of the Eastern Rite the priest in charge of
the Omsk parish, the most senior by priestly ordination, the priest
Sergiy Golovanov.

"Priest Sergiy Golovanov, as the Exarchate's temporary administrator,
has all the powers and privileges of the Exarch, given by the
Apostolic See to the priest-confessor Exarch Leontiy (Leonid)
Fyodorov, the priest-martyr Exarch Kliment Sheptisky, bishop Andrey
Katkov.  According to Canon 320 #2 of the KKVTs [Codex of Canons of
the Eastern Church], from the moment of accepting this responsible
service, Priest Sergiy Golovanov, is a protopresbyter, having all the
privileges and dignities of the first rank after bishop."

==========


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« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2004, 11:11:34 AM »

Since when is someone being utilized as a tool by the evil one to be trusted?
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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2004, 12:03:32 PM »

1) Cardinal Husar has nothing to do with this since he only has jurisdiction over Ukrainian Catholics.
2) The Russian Greek-Catholics, who only number about 2000 souls, are all the products of people who willingly converted to Catholicism in the 1890's, if I recall correctly.  We can say they made a mistake but compared to the 80,000,000-150,000,000 Russian Orthodox, this hardly seems like a threat.
3) The Vatican has resisted pressures for 30 years to ordain a bishop for Russian Greek Catholics out of respect for the ROC.  Does this not count for anything?

Call me soft on Catholics but instead of being a clear cut case of Catholic aggression this seems more like an attempt for Russian Catholics who chose to be such to have a better organization of their church life, which is their right if we really believe in religious liberty.

Baptists convert probably the same number of Russians to Baptist religion every month as there are Greek Catholics in Russia in totality.  So who is the bigger threat??

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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2004, 12:10:24 PM »

Call me soft on Catholics but instead of being a clear cut case of Catholic aggression this seems more like an attempt for Russian Catholics who chose to be such to have a better organization of their church life, which is their right if we really believe in religious liberty.

Anastasios is soft on Catholics!  Wink

Baptists convert probably the same number of Russians to Baptist religion every month as there are Greek Catholics in Russia in totality.  So who is the bigger threat??

I would rather have 100 Protestants than 1 Catholic.
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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2004, 12:49:06 PM »

Quote
I would rather have 100 Protestants than 1 Catholic.

I know you have the understandable anti-Catholic bias Tom, I really do as I grew up with it too, but Catholics believe in many more of the same things as Orthodox do than Protestants, and still maintain a small-c culture that the two groups share in common.  The Protestants on the other hand usually (trying to not generalize too much) import American culture calling it "Christian" and end up destroying the social fabric (at least that is what they do in Latin America in many cases).  So I would be cautious to say I would rather have 100 Protestants.

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« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2004, 01:00:33 PM »

[Call me soft on Catholics but instead of being a clear cut case of Catholic aggression this seems more like an attempt for Russian Catholics who chose to be such to have a better organization of their church life, which is their right if we really believe in religious liberty.]

With all due respect Anastasios, RCC aggression is not the point.  The point is, and always has been on thefact that while the Vatican has been given assurances to the ROC for years that it has no intention of setting up a Russian Catholic eparchy in Russia it turns around and does the exact opposite.  This is just another instance where the RCC says one thing and does the exact opposite.  Or, where it agrees to one thing and then turns its back on said agreement when it suits its interest.  The RCC is not to be trusted.  And this is just another example.

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« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2004, 02:02:42 PM »

Quote
the Vatican has been given assurances to the ROC for years that it has no intention of setting up a Russian Catholic eparchy in Russia it turns around and does the exact opposite.

I was unaware that a protopresbytyr was the head of an eparchy.

But what do I know, I'm just an evil Catholic.  Pardon me while I go worship Satan.
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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2004, 02:12:25 PM »

Relax Schultz & have a cold one while we await orders from the horned evil emperor, its getting pretty warm, eh.

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« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2004, 02:15:18 PM »

[I was unaware that a protopresbytyr was the head of an eparchy.

But what do I know, I'm just an evil Catholic. Pardon me while I go worship Satan.]


Reread what I posted.  Especially the part that says -

=============

Priest Sergiy Golovanov, as the Exarchate's temporary administrator,
has all the powers and privileges of the Exarch, given by the
Apostolic See to the priest-confessor Exarch Leontiy (Leonid)
Fyodorov, the priest-martyr Exarch Kliment Sheptisky, bishop Andrey
Katkov.   
   
=============   

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« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2004, 02:19:47 PM »

I did read that.  It says he has all the "powers and privileges", but it says nothing of setting up a permanent Exarch.  Indeed, it says quite the opposite.  But what it says and what is actually happening means nothing to you, because your mind is made up.  Arguing with you regarding things that the Catholic Church does, and what people who willingly embrace it, is like arguing with someone who thinks the moon landing was faked.
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« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2004, 02:29:13 PM »

[I did read that. It says he has all the "powers and privileges", but it says nothing of setting up a permanent Exarch.]

What's the difference between having all the powers and privileges of an Exarch which enables you TO ACT AS SUCH and officially proclaiming it as an Exarch?  It's just another example of the Roman Catholic word game.  We'll operate like an Exarchate but we just won't call it that.  And that way we can't be acused of going back on our word.  That's on the same par as even though we will continue to say 'and the Son' we really mean 'through the Son'!

What  is that so many are unable to see through the ridiculousness of such Roman Catholic mumbo jumbo.

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« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2004, 02:34:15 PM »

So those people who have chosen to be Catholic and follow the Russian recension of the Byzantine Rite (note the word chosen and not "hornswaggled") should be denied some sort of organizational structure?

This is not 1600 anymore.  WElcome to the 21st Century, where we have religious liberty so that you can be Orthodox and I can be Catholic.  I defy you to find me one Greek Catholic with sane faculties who believes the "Pope is now Orthodox!".  

Your obsession with what the Catholic Church does is pretty unhealthy, but then again, so is my punchiness this afternoon.
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« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2004, 02:49:33 PM »

[Your obsession with what the Catholic Church does is pretty unhealthy, but then again, so is my punchiness this afternoon.]

But you still didn't answer my question which is -

What's the difference between not calling it an  Excharate but giving it the power and authority to govern and act as such?

That's like saying we will now give the President of the United States the absolute authority to act as a dictator but we will not call the U.S. a dictatorship after he accepts such power.

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P.S.  I am not obsessed with the Roman Catholic Church.  I just don't trust the Roman Catholic Church.  And things like this are the reason why.  

 

 
 
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« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2004, 03:01:17 PM »

The administrator of the "Exarchate" is not a bishop, and therefore it cannot be called an "Exarchate" properly because, while Fr. Golovanov may have the "powers and privileges" an exarch, he is most surely not one.  He has "administrative" powers, so to speak.

If Fr. Golovanov is raised to the rank of Bishop, then you can gripe all you want and I'll shut my mouth, but until then, there's nothing amiss other than giving Russian Catholics some organization, that's all.

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« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2004, 03:06:54 PM »

But what do I know, I'm just an evil Catholic.  Pardon me while I go worship Satan.

 Grin  Wink

Nah! If you are here then you are aware of it - and you can fight it!
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« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2004, 04:42:25 PM »

[The administrator of the "Exarchate" is not a bishop, and therefore it cannot be called an "Exarchate" properly because, while Fr. Golovanov may have the "powers and privileges" an exarch, he is most surely not one.  He has "administrative" powers, so to speak.]

It's still just a matter of Roman Catholic semantics.  If he has the powers of a Bishop then its immaterial if he is official made a Bishop or not.

You Roman Catholics sure like to play the Roman Catholic word game...don't you?

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« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2004, 05:02:13 PM »

But he does NOT have the powers of a Bishop.  

Can he consecrate anyone?  Can he "issue" antimension?

Nope.

He is merely an administrator and any administrator needs to have certain powers delegated to him in order to fulfill his task of administering to the needs of Russian Catholics.

I am playing no word games, you are.  Apparently, someone who isn't a Bishop is a Bishop if he can oversee the administration of parishes but can't consecrate anyone to the priesthood, at least to you.

You're far too old to be playing these childish word games yourself, sir.  If it comes from the mouth of a Catholic, it's immediately suspect and you try to find something wrong with it, no matter how small it is.  Kind of reminds me of many of the objections the reviewer of the OSB has on orthodoxinfo.com.
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« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2004, 06:35:07 PM »

Quote
I would rather have 100 Protestants than 1 Catholic.

Take away the snake kissing, tongue blabbering, 1-800-LUV-GSUS telethons, faith healing con men, televangelists with bad hair, and noisy tent revivals... and I might agree.
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« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2004, 07:43:03 PM »

Take away the snake kissing, tongue blabbering, 1-800-LUV-GSUS telethons, faith healing con men, televangelists with bad hair, and noisy tent revivals... and I might agree.

Right.  That's why I'd rather have 1000 Catholics than 1 Protestant, if we must speak in those terms.
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« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2004, 08:43:36 PM »

[You're far too old to be playing these childish word games yourself, sir. If it comes from the mouth of a Catholic, it's immediately suspect and you try to find something wrong with it, no matter how small it is.]

I really take offense at that statement!   I have learned much from reading so many Roman Catholic bogus responses on Orthodox Catholic discussion groups. I have been around a lot longer than you have.  I probably know more of the history between the Roman Catholic Church and its relationship with the Orthodox Catholic Church than you can even imagine.

[He is merely an administrator and any administrator needs to have certain powers delegated to him in order to fulfill his task of administering to the needs of Russian Catholics.]

Then why is the Roman Catholic Church using terminology like Exarch and Excharate?

-----------  
   
Exarch - A title borrowed from Roman civil law, meaning "governor".  IT IS USED TO IDENTIFY BISHOPS  WHO HAVE SENIORITY OVER OTHER PRELATES.  It is a lower rank than a patriarch.  The Greek term for Exarch means "representative with FULL AUTHORITY."


Exarchate - The geographical territory or group of churches under the jurisdiction of an Exarch.  The word is also similar to Eparchy.

Eparchy - In the Eastern Church this term is used both for an ecclesiastical province AND FOR A DIOCESE.
   
So we have what the Roman Catholics themselves refer to as an Exarchate  who is run by an Exarch with the same full administrative powers of a Bishop but who isn't a Bishop.  The fact that there is no Bishop to head it then  its not really an exarchate.  

[1) Cardinal Husar has nothing to do with this since he only has jurisdiction over Ukrainian Catholics.]

Father Sergi Golovanov the newly elected Excarch is a Ukrainian Catholic priest -

----------

One Ukrainian Catholic priest, Father Sergi Golovanov confirmed that this was indeed the situation in western Russia: “We are not allowed to exist in western Russia.” Through his web site, which covers the Eastern Catholic Church in Russia, Father Golovanov reports that he frequently receives messages from Eastern Catholics all over European Russia who lament that when they try to form official parishes, “they are told they cannot exist, or there will be bad relations with the Moscow Patriarchate.”  

-----------
   
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« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2004, 10:03:53 PM »

Jesus was not a Pharisee, Tom
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« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2004, 10:15:09 PM »

Jesus was not a Pharisee, Tom

What did I say? I known as Tom. Perhaps this TOm here os the AntiTom!!?!?!? and I am the TOm
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« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2004, 10:27:14 PM »

Jesus was not a Pharisee, Tom

Yeah. That's what I said!  Wink

C'mon you all must know me by now -- I am really not all that serious!
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« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2004, 01:21:16 PM »

[The administrator of the "Exarchate" is not a bishop, and therefore it cannot be called an "Exarchate" properly because, while Fr. Golovanov may have the "powers and privileges" an exarch, he is most surely not one. He has "administrative" powers, so to speak.

If Fr. Golovanov is raised to the rank of Bishop, then you can gripe all you want and I'll shut my mouth, but until then, there's nothing amiss other than giving Russian Catholics some organization, that's all.]

------------

A St. Petersburg layman, who identifies himself as a Russian Catholic
of  the Byzantine Rite, in his lengthy open letter to Bishop Joseph
Vert (?sp?), "representative of the Conference of Catholic Bishops of
Russia for Catholics of the Eastern Rite", congratulates the bishop
on his appointment to that position on August 12th. He laments that
since the mass media did not publish the full text of the
Conference's decision of the appointment of Bishop Joseph Vert, it is
unclear exactly what duties were entrusted to him and states
that "..the faithful of the Russian Greek Catholic Church at present
are directly dependent on the Apostolic See and await a decision
regarding the Exarch's cathedra..." The letter is copied to the
Conference of Catholic Bishops of Russia, the Representation of the
Holy See in Russia, and the Congregation for the Eastern Churches.

http://portal-credo.ru/site/?act=news&id=26335&cf=

Protopresbyter Sergiy Golovanov's August 25, 2004 letter (No. 1) is
an "Appeal of the Sobor of the Russian Catholic Church of the
Byzantine rite to Pope John Paul II and the prefect of the
Congregation of Eastern Churches" for a "...Pontifical blessing to
revive the Exarchate of the Russian Church of the Byzantine Rite."
Letter No. 2 on the same date is directed to Patriarch Ignatius,
Prefect of the Congregation of Eastern Churches, is a "NOTICE"
regarding the "Exarchate of the Russian Catholic Church of the
Byzantine rite for the Annuario Pontificio and other official
documents

----------

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« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2004, 01:40:03 PM »

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that Archbishop Vert is a Latin-Rite bishop who is serving as the Apostolic Administrator of Sibera, and a Jesuit, to boot.

Nice try, but we're talking about Fr. Golovanov, not Archbishop Vert.
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« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2004, 01:42:38 PM »

A few comments:

The Vatican does not need to set up an exarchate in Russia it is already there and has existed since 1917.  The first exarch was Blessed Leonid Fedorov who died a confessor in 1935.  He was followed by Blessed Clement Sheptitsky in 1951, also a confessor.  It has not has a resident exarch since.  Three bishops were ordained for the dispora, Archbishop Alexander Evreinov, reposed 1959, Bishop Paul Meletiev, reposed 1962, and Bishop Andrei Katkov, reposed 1995.

Rome has resisted ordaining a new bishop for the Russians since they don't want to upset the MP.  The Latin Catholic Russian bishops have ignored them for the same reason.  Only Archbishop Lubomyr has given them pastoral assistance.

As to semantics, was it not the MP who threw a fit over the fact that the Latin Catholic apostolic administrations were elevated to dioceses even though they already had bishops and continued to function the same way?

One need not be a bishop to be an exarch, although usually they are.

In the Catholic Church an exarch, whom may be aposotolic or patriarchal/major archepiscopal, is the Eastern Catholic equivalent of the Latin Catholic apostolic vicar.  An Apostolic Exarchate/Vicarate is a jurisdiction that is not ready to be erected in two an eparchy/diocese due to smallness or circumstances.

Russia has 5 parishes: two in Moscow, two in St. Petersburg, and 1 in Sargatskoye.

It would appear the parish priests have enacted Canon 320 of the CCEO:

Canon 320

1. When the exarchy is vacant or impeded, the government transfers to the protosyncellus or, when there is none, to the pastor senior by presbyteral ordination.
 
2. He who comes into the interim governance of the exarchy must as soon as possible inform the authority whose right it is to appoint the exarch so that he can fill the vacancy. Meanwhile he can use all the powers and faculties, whether ordinary or delegated which the exarch had, unless they were committed to the exarch for his personal qualifications.

Entire Eastern Code Online:

http://www.intratext.com/X/ENG1199.HTM


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« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2004, 01:54:37 PM »

Bishop Joseph Werth SJ, was in succesion for the Latin Church, apostolic administrator of Siberia, apostolic administrator of Westen Siberia and is now Bishop of the Diocese of the  Transfiguration of Novosibirsk of the Latins.  He has no jurisdiction over Eastern Catholics and I think the article is mistranslating his appointment as episcopal representative for Eastern Catholics to the Conference of Catholic Bishops of Russia, a Latin Catholic institution.

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« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2011, 10:08:17 AM »

i say like the roman catholic church appoint  who ever they want they are only digging thier own hole the  more they insist in creating a larger eastern and western rite church in russia and steal more of our orthodox  sheep from our churches  the more  his holiness the  patrairch of moscow will object and  will not have anything to do with any talks with rome the roman catholic church must relinqish all claims to eastern rite parishes in russia and the ukraine  and only have western rite parishes in siberia to tend to the people who were freed  after 1991  and still live in the general area from  the gulag they served  as prisoners   from the soviet  satelite nations with mostly roman catholics living in them like poland, czech, slovak , hungary .romania
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josephgodleski1966
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Posts: 20


« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2011, 10:08:17 AM »

let the roman catholic church appoint who ever they wish they are only digging themselves in a deeper hole the patrairch of moscow will react by having nothing to do  with any further with rome on reunion and the other orthodox prelates will go along and if the greek patrairch wants he can have a meeting with the pope and others will boycott it the pope must change the doctrines that separate us and disband the eastern rite churches  that are mirror rites to our eastern orthodox churches  they can have  western rite parishes in siberia to minister to those released from the gulag who settled not far from where  the gulags were located because they were roman catholics who came from the soviet satelite nations of czechoslovakia/ poland , hungary romania, slovenia , bosnia herzogovina, croatia  that i can see but the patrairch of moscow should send a clear message to rome  change your policy of how  and where you set up churches and stop the sheep stealing and reconsider the doctrines which divide us or no more talks or meeting with any official of the church of rome
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Tags: Uniate roman catholic Pope liar Moscow Patriarchate 
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