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Author Topic: Issues and Concerns with the Ethiopian Tewahedo Orthodox Church  (Read 3402 times) Average Rating: 2
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NicholasMyra
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« on: October 07, 2011, 02:03:22 AM »

Recently, some other posters and I have heard some startling claims from the Ethiopian Orthodox on the board, and in some links that they have provided.

1. Ge'ez and linguistic Claims
The claim that Ge'ez is the mother tongue of all human language and a language imbued with some sort of divine power over and against other languages. Here is an example from Gebre:

"..Ge'ez... the very language that was spoken in the Garden of Eden! This was the very speech that Adam and Eve used to converse with the animals and with the Holy Trinity."

2. Ark of the Covenant
A focus on the Ark of the Covenant literally being in Ethiopia, against historical evidence, and amidst shadowy events like the Patriarch of Ethiopia backing out of displaying the Ark to the public after promising to.

3. Genetic Claims
Claims that Ethiopians are directly descended from Solomon, are more closely related to how Adam and Eve originally looked, etc.

4. Liturgical Claims
The claim that Ethiopia has maintained an unbroken liturgy from King David's time.

5. Ethiopia = Zion?

Are these sorts of superstitious, nationalist and racial claims a regular part of Ethiopian Orthodoxy in Ethiopia and in the diaspora?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 02:14:05 AM by NicholasMyra » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2011, 02:26:58 AM »

Not to be inflammatory, but I've also noticed some tendencies which seem Judaising (from the perspective of this outsider).
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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2011, 02:31:26 AM »

I think you'll find a certain amount of nationalism in every national church.  The Armenians, for example, call the Armenian language "soorp lezoon," which means "the holy language."  Also, I was taught as a kid that the Garden of Eden was in Armenia.  I think this was supported by the reference to the Euphrates River in Genesis 2.  And of course the Armenians make much of Noah's ark resting on Mount Ararat.

Really, these things don't matter from a theological point of view.  I think these traditions developed as a way of connecting the people to the religion and making it their own.  

With regard to the Ark of the Covenant, the tradition that it rests in Ethiopia is really quite ancient.  I think the fact that it remains hidden from the public is evidence of the sincerity, and even veracity, of the Ethiopian Church's claims.  If it were a hoax, the Church there would be putting it on public display to get recognition, etc.  Their belief in its holiness, however, outweighs any desire to show it off, brag about it, or profit from it in any way.  It's been discussed before.  You may want to click on the tag about it, below.
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« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2011, 02:34:10 AM »

Not to be inflammatory, but I've also noticed some tendencies which seem Judaising (from the perspective of this outsider).

I think that would be due to the fact that there was a very ancient Jewish population in Ethiopia before it was Christian.  That, I think, is connected to the presence of the Ark in Ethiopia.
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« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2011, 02:35:59 AM »

Not to be inflammatory, but I've also noticed some tendencies which seem Judaising (from the perspective of this outsider).

I think that would be due to the fact that there was a very ancient Jewish population in Ethiopia before it was Christian.  That, I think, is connected to the presence of the Ark in Ethiopia.

Granted, but for the purposes of discussion, I will say that there is a difference between being a Jew (gentically) and a Judaiser -- it is only the latter which is potentially problematic.
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« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2011, 02:41:19 AM »

The videos linked in this post may be of interest regarding the Ark:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13693.msg221198.html#msg221198
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« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2011, 02:41:35 AM »

Add the "Age of the World" bit to this list.
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« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2011, 02:47:08 AM »

Not to be inflammatory, but I've also noticed some tendencies which seem Judaising (from the perspective of this outsider).

I think that would be due to the fact that there was a very ancient Jewish population in Ethiopia before it was Christian.  That, I think, is connected to the presence of the Ark in Ethiopia.

Granted, but for the purposes of discussion, I will say that there is a difference between being a Jew (gentically) and a Judaiser -- it is only the latter which is potentially problematic.

I seem to recall this being discussed before.  I don't think the Ethiopian Church is strongly dogmatic about its traditions that are rooted in Judaism, such as circumcision, etc.  At least not in a way that would be problematic.  For example, Armenians don't circumcise, and yet we are in communion with the Ethiopians.  It's not like they believe a person can't be a Christian if they don't practice those things.  That's the sort of thing that would be problematic to Christianity.
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« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2011, 02:48:33 AM »

Add the "Age of the World" bit to this list.

Not exactly scientific, but then neither is the Resurrection.   Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2011, 03:03:28 AM »

Add the "Age of the World" bit to this list.

Not exactly scientific, but then neither is the Resurrection.   Smiley
What do you mean not scientific? Doesn't the EOTC say the Earth was created 5000+ years ago?
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« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2011, 04:10:49 AM »

Recently, some other posters and I have heard some startling claims from the Ethiopian Orthodox on the board, and in some links that they have provided.

1. Ge'ez and linguistic Claims
The claim that Ge'ez is the mother tongue of all human language and a language imbued with some sort of divine power over and against other languages. Here is an example from Gebre:

"..Ge'ez... the very language that was spoken in the Garden of Eden! This was the very speech that Adam and Eve used to converse with the animals and with the Holy Trinity."

2. Ark of the Covenant
A focus on the Ark of the Covenant literally being in Ethiopia, against historical evidence, and amidst shadowy events like the Patriarch of Ethiopia backing out of displaying the Ark to the public after promising to.

3. Genetic Claims
Claims that Ethiopians are directly descended from Solomon, are more closely related to how Adam and Eve originally looked, etc.

4. Liturgical Claims
The claim that Ethiopia has maintained an unbroken liturgy from King David's time.

5. Ethiopia = Zion?

Are these sorts of superstitious, nationalist and racial claims a regular part of Ethiopian Orthodoxy in Ethiopia and in the diaspora?

Let me try to briefly address each issue in question:

1. Our Tradition does indeed maintain that the ancient and mystical Liturgical language of Ge'ez is the oldest language in existence, and is in fact the language that Adam and Eve used to converse with the animals and God prior to the Fall. I think brother Habte Selassie posted some comments in support of this Tradition, explaining that Ge'ez predates Hebrew and Arabic. I imagine that sister Hiwot and brothers HaileAmanuel, Hiywot, and other EOTC members of this forum can elaborate on this point. I will try to provide a reference soon, but here is some good information from N'bure-Id Ermias Kebbede Welde-Yesus, from his book “Servant of Ethiopia: The Kingdom of GodGe'ez is the first and original language that is referred to in Genesis 11/1 as "Now the whole earth had one language and one speech." This Divine Truth is authenticated by the following simple and unique characteristics of Ge'ez:

a) The inherent, literal and dual meaning of the word Ge'ez is "The First" and "The Free".

b) Each of the alphabets of Ge'ez constitutes and is identified by seven characters and phonetics, based on the Divine Number of Seven.

c) The first character of the alphabet of Ge'ez, as the basis and the key for the rest of the six characters, being itself non-phonetic, i.e., without vowel or soundless like a consonant, is designated as "Ge'ez", i.e., "The first".

d) The first character of the alphabet of Ge'ez "A" was used by the Biblical God for the first time into the making of the word that related to the specific name, "Adam", the name constituting both the first male and female human beings created in the Image of the Divine Creator.

e) While all the other languages and alphabets of the humans derive their designations from the names of the peoples who speak and write them, Ge'ez is the only language that is called by its own name that relates its unique status and nature.

f) There is a universal and conventional knowledge about the initial words that virtually all babies that are born of the human beings to inhabit the face of the Earth, whatever the language spoken and the alphabet written of the family and community to which they belong and in which they are reared, utter, right at their early infancy. It is invariably: "Ab Ab Ab", in short "Ababa!", which literally means in Ge'ez, "Father Father Father" meant to address the biological male parent, and "Im Im Im", in short "Im'ma!" which literally means in Ge'ez, "Mother Mother Mother" meant to address the biological female parent.

g) Ge'ez opens its alphabet by the first character "A", called "Aleph" in Ge'ez and closes with the "Last" character "O", called the "Seventh", both referred to as "Alpha" and "Omega" by the then contemporary Greek vernacular. When the Creator, known to and addressed by Ethiopians in their Ge'ez terminology as "Igziab'her", became Incarnate, born of the Holy Virgin Mary and revealed Himself to the world as Lord Jesus Christ, He affirmed the Divinity, Seniority and Originality of Ge'ez by assigning to Himself the same characters and nature of the Ge'ez Alphabets with His Apocalyptic Words that says, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last." This Divine Verification of the identity of the Language of Ge'ez demonstrates the Divine Truth that Ge'ez has been, not only the Divine Language God used to communicate with Adam and Eve, but also remains the Sacred Language by which He conveyed His Messages to humanity and His Faithful Ethiopians continue to worship Him.(Rev. 22/13)

It is worth noting here that the above specifics are substantiated by series of archeological and paleontological discoveries in modern times.


2.  Our Tradition maintains that the Ark of the Covenant is indeed in Ethiopia. It is believed that the Ark is located in St. Mary of Zion Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church in Axum. We have a book of Holy Tradition called The Kebra Nagast (“The Glory of Kings”) which gives a detailed history of how the Ark of the Covenant came to rest in Ethiopia. In spite of numerous efforts to do so, there is actually no historical or archaeological evidence to disprove our claim.

3. As for the genetic claims, this is not an essential part of our Tradition or our Faith. However the ethnic features of most Ethiopians portray a beautiful amalgamation of sub-Saharan African and Semitic blood. This fact indeed corresponds to the biblical and historical account of the Queen of Sheba’s meeting and procreative relationship with King Solomon.

4. I’m not sure what you mean by “has maintained an unbroken liturgy since David’s time”. We are Orthodox Christians, and our Liturgy is thoroughly and purely Christian. In fact, although most Ethiopian Orthodox Christians practice circumcision as a customary tradition, we confess in our Divine Liturgy: “Henceforth let us not be circumcised like the Jews, for we know that He who had to fulfill the law and the prophets has already come.”

5. The concept of Ethiopia literally being Zion is a Rastafarian idea, not an Ethiopian Orthodox doctrine. However, as Ethiopian Orthodox Christians, we believe that the hand of God will remain upon the nation and people of Ethiopia. We believe according the Scriptures that Ethiopia was part of the Garden of Eden (Genesis 2:13), and that Ethiopia has a divine prophetical promise that she will continue to “stretch forth her hand unto God.” [Psalm 68:31]

The Ethiopian Orthodox Church is not exclusive, nationalistic, or prejudicial. Our Church embraces the evangelical mission given by Our Lord to go into all the world and preach the Gospel. [St. Mark 16:15; St. Matt 28:18-20] As His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie said:

 “This age above all ages is a period in history when it should be our prime duty to preach the Gospel of Grace to all our fellow men and women. The love shown in Christ by our God to mankind should constrain all of us who are followers and disciples of Christ to do all in our power to see to it that the Message of Salvation is carried to those of our fellows for whom Christ the Savior was crucified, but who have not had the benefit of hearing the Good News… As we do not practice or permit discrimination within our own nation, so we oppose it wherever it is found.”

6. In regards to the age of the earth, our Church does in fact teach that the earth is approximately 7,000 years old. This age has been derived at by holy monks who have deduced the age of the earth from a detailed examination of the Book of Jubilees (which is part of our biblical canon) according the guidance of the Holy Spirit. For more information on this topic, click on this link: http://www.ethiopianorthodoxchurch.org/old%20ver/ethiopian_calender_Gregorian_calender_2009.html

Thank you for your interest in our Church and our Faith. Please be assured that we are Orthodox Christians. It is unfortunate that our Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Faith has been so misunderstood. I think these misconceptions and confusions are due to the erroneous connection of our Church with certain fallacious aspects of the Rastafarian movement, and also to the prejudicial stereotypes portrayed by the media which make Ethiopian Christianity appear to be merely another form of exotic African superstition.

I think it is most helpful if all Orthodox Christians respect one another’s cultural traditions. Other Orthodox Christians may be skeptical about our claim to have the Ark of the Covenant or our teaching that Ge’ez was the language of Eden, and there is nothing wrong with asking us why we hold to these traditions. But we should be careful that we don’t disparage, mock, or challenge each other’s sacred traditions and customs, for we all come equally as sinners to receive the very Body and Blood of Christ, in which is our salvation.

If I have mis-stated or misrepresented anything here, I ask that my Ethiopian Orthodox brethren correct me.




Selam

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« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2011, 10:09:36 AM »

I think you'll find a certain amount of nationalism in every national church.  The Armenians, for example, call the Armenian language "soorp lezoon," which means "the holy language."  Also, I was taught as a kid that the Garden of Eden was in Armenia.  I think this was supported by the reference to the Euphrates River in Genesis 2.  And of course the Armenians make much of Noah's ark resting on Mount Ararat.

Really, these things don't matter from a theological point of view.  I think these traditions developed as a way of connecting the people to the religion and making it their own.  

With regard to the Ark of the Covenant, the tradition that it rests in Ethiopia is really quite ancient.  I think the fact that it remains hidden from the public is evidence of the sincerity, and even veracity, of the Ethiopian Church's claims.  If it were a hoax, the Church there would be putting it on public display to get recognition, etc.  Their belief in its holiness, however, outweighs any desire to show it off, brag about it, or profit from it in any way.  It's been discussed before.  You may want to click on the tag about it, below.

I agree.  You know, I actually have the real burial shroud of Christ.  It is so holy, though, that I must not let anyone see it.  I'm glad you'll defend my decision.
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« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2011, 12:18:28 PM »

I think the fact that it remains hidden from the public is evidence of the sincerity, and even veracity, of the Ethiopian Church's claims.  If it were a hoax, the Church there would be putting it on public display to get recognition, etc.  Their belief in its holiness, however, outweighs any desire to show it off, brag about it, or profit from it in any way.  

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« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2011, 01:23:09 PM »

Add the "Age of the World" bit to this list.

This is hardly unique to the Ethiopian church.
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« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2011, 04:20:08 PM »

I've heard about the Ark resting there. in fact I specifically remember that the Patriarch said he was going to show it off but then said he couldn't but he can attest that its there...wow, what proof....

whatever.

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« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2011, 04:39:36 PM »

I've seen several segments on the history channel about the ark being in Ethiopia, so who can argue with that?
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« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2011, 04:59:59 PM »

I don't understand why the Ethiopian Church doesn't allow its faithful to venerate such an amazing relic.
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« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2011, 05:14:07 PM »

I don't understand why the Ethiopian Church doesn't allow its faithful to venerate such an amazing relic.

1 Chronicles 13:9-10 and Numbers 4:20
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« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2011, 06:01:49 PM »

I don't understand why the Ethiopian Church doesn't allow its faithful to venerate such an amazing relic.
Because its not there. Probably a very ornate forgery, but a forgery none the less.

PP
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« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2011, 06:10:10 PM »

I don't understand why the Ethiopian Church doesn't allow its faithful to venerate such an amazing relic.

1 Chronicles 13:9-10 and Numbers 4:20
Christians partake of the very Flesh and Blood of the Incarnate Logos without dying. I don't see why the Ark (a type which has now been fulfilled in the Theotokos) would kill anyone anymore so long as they approached it with fear and faith.
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« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2011, 06:12:03 PM »

I don't understand why the Ethiopian Church doesn't allow its faithful to venerate such an amazing relic.

1 Chronicles 13:9-10 and Numbers 4:20
Christians partake of the very Flesh and Blood of the Incarnate Logos without dying. I don't see why the Ark (a type which has now been fulfilled in the Theotokos) would kill anyone anymore so long as they approached it with fear and faith.
If indeed the Ark were with the Ethopians, your logic makes sense. We as Christians have nothing to fear from it provided our hearts are right.

PP
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« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2011, 09:01:47 PM »

I don't understand why the Ethiopian Church doesn't allow its faithful to venerate such an amazing relic.
Because its not there. Probably a very ornate forgery, but a forgery none the less.

PP

Not ornate.  My understanding is that what is left of the Ark is basically a flat piece of wood, and that is what is in the church in Ethiopia.  It's not something that you would recognize from a Harrison Ford movie. 

This also, in my opinion, supports its authenticity.  After thousands of years, all you would expect to be left of it would be a fragment, not the whole thing as described in the Bible.  If the Ethiopians were going to pull a hoax, they would have reconstructed something that looked like the Ark in Raiders.

In the end, I don't think the Ethiopians really care if the non-Orthodox believe that what they have is the Ark or not.  If they cared, they would reconstruct it to make it look "ornate" and put it on public display.  All they seem to care about, however, is protecting this holy object that God has trusted to their care. 
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« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2011, 09:06:43 PM »

I don't understand why the Ethiopian Church doesn't allow its faithful to venerate such an amazing relic.

1 Chronicles 13:9-10 and Numbers 4:20
Christians partake of the very Flesh and Blood of the Incarnate Logos without dying. I don't see why the Ark (a type which has now been fulfilled in the Theotokos) would kill anyone anymore so long as they approached it with fear and faith.

Would you put a piece of the Eucharist on public display?  In the old days, they used to forbid those who couldn't partake from even watching as people took Communion. 

The Ark is not an ordinary relic.  No other object in the Bible ever had attributed to it the kind of power that the Ark had.
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« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2011, 09:40:09 PM »

Something bizarre has happened.  Last night I put an "Ark of the Covenant" tag on this thread.  It disappeared a couple of times and I replaced it each time.  Today when I got home from work, I saw that not only was that tag deleted from this thread, but it was also deleted from all the other threads that it had been on. 

So I have again put the tag on all the threads it should be on:


Ark of the Covenant   hedley   1   635

The Ark of the Covenant: How to reconcile our tradition with Scripture?   Gebre Menfes Kidus     13    985

Article on the Ark in Ethiopia   Eugenio   80   7004

The Ark of the Covenant and the Ethiopian Orthodox Church   Andrew21091   4   620

Article on Ethiopian Orthodox Church   Mor Ephrem   6   1414

Issues and Concerns with the Ethiopian Tewahedo Orthodox Church   NicholasMyra   22   169


I suppose whoever has been deleting the tags can just do it again, but then I'll just put them back on.  A quick look at the statistics here on OCnet should inform anyone of the fact that I really don't have anything else to do with my life but log onto OCnet and replace tags.   Smiley

One would think the EO's were jealous of the Ethiopians for having the Ark.  And to think, it used to be you guys were only jealous of our hats and our food.   Cheesy
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« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2011, 01:51:02 AM »

so Gebre..

where'd Sanskrit come from? is that a derivative of Geez?  Also, explain Avestan..

Sanskrit and Avestan are two of the oldest languages in the world, used by Zoroaster and the Vedic Brahmins.
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« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2011, 02:25:20 AM »

it is fortunate that the Ethiopian Orthodox Church does not get too caught up with the Ge'ez thing, because Coptic is the oldest surviving language in the world, having a history of around 4-6k years behind it Smiley

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« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2011, 02:28:05 AM »

You mean before they borrowed the Greek alphabet right? And were still writing in hieroglyphs..?  Sanskrit, Avestan, Coptic.. very old languages -- got ya
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« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2011, 02:35:52 AM »

even after the greek alphabet was borrowed, its the same spoken and written language, much like turkish changing into the latin alphabet.
i might call it egyptian to avoid confusion. egyptian has been around since 5000bc and is used in the coptic orthodox church Smiley
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« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2011, 02:37:05 AM »

--Subscribed--
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« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2011, 06:09:45 AM »

Coptic is not ancient Egyptian, any more than Arabic is Phoenician.
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« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2011, 06:14:12 AM »

its the same language written using a different alphabet Smiley
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« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2011, 06:18:38 AM »

its the same language written using a different alphabet Smiley
-_-
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if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

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« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2011, 06:21:33 AM »

"Coptic or Coptic Egyptian (ⲘⲉⲧⲢⲉⲙ̀ⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ Met Remenkēmi) is the current stage of the Egyptian language, a northern Afro-Asiatic language spoken in Egypt until at least the 17th century. Egyptian began to be written using the Greek alphabet in the 1st century.[4] The new writing system became the Coptic script, an adapted Greek alphabet with the addition of six or seven signs from the demotic script to represent Egyptian sounds the Greek language did not have. Several distinct Coptic dialects are identified, the most prominent of which are Sahidic and Bohairic."
if you require scholarly evidence, let me know, i will dig it up.
God bless
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« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2011, 06:58:12 AM »

I don't understand why the Ethiopian Church doesn't allow its faithful to venerate such an amazing relic.


One might as well ask why Orthodox Christians are not allowed behind the altar. We don't need "proof", we accept what our Church says. Can any of us prove how the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Our Lord?


Selam
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« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2011, 07:00:51 AM »

I don't understand why the Ethiopian Church doesn't allow its faithful to venerate such an amazing relic.

1 Chronicles 13:9-10 and Numbers 4:20
Christians partake of the very Flesh and Blood of the Incarnate Logos without dying. I don't see why the Ark (a type which has now been fulfilled in the Theotokos) would kill anyone anymore so long as they approached it with fear and faith.

Would you put a piece of the Eucharist on public display?  In the old days, they used to forbid those who couldn't partake from even watching as people took Communion. 

The Ark is not an ordinary relic.  No other object in the Bible ever had attributed to it the kind of power that the Ark had.


Yes. Exactly Salpy.


Selam

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« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2011, 07:09:27 AM »

for the sake of argument: Christ specifically stated in the clearest of terms to eat of his holy body, and drink of his blood, attributing these two divine things to the bread and wine. not to mention countless church fathers re-affirming this. on the otherhand, the location of the ark is never mentioned in the holy bible following its disappearance. in fact the church fathers allude to St Mary being the Ark of Covenant (although allegorical, such description point to the fathers' conviction that the whereabouts of the Ark is neither important nor in ethiopia. also the new testament is the new covenant, the old one elapsed. much like the judaic sacrifice will never be consumed by the divine flame, the Ark will never have the same spiritual value as the eucharist. this is because we are now saved, the old covenant no longer directly binds us.
i hope i make sense...
God bless
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« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2011, 07:13:47 AM »

for the sake of argument: Christ specifically stated in the clearest of terms to eat of his holy body, and drink of his blood, attributing these two divine things to the bread and wine. not to mention countless church fathers re-affirming this. on the otherhand, the location of the ark is never mentioned in the holy bible following its disappearance. in fact the church fathers allude to St Mary being the Ark of Covenant (although allegorical, such description point to the fathers' conviction that the whereabouts of the Ark is neither important nor in ethiopia. also the new testament is the new covenant, the old one elapsed. much like the judaic sacrifice will never be consumed by the divine flame, the Ark will never have the same spiritual value as the eucharist. this is because we are now saved, the old covenant no longer directly binds us.
i hope i make sense...
God bless

Perfect sense.

Can a thread be moved to public? This ain't ugly. I think Nick was overly cautious about the polemical possibility of this thread.

A lot of people who might be interested in this don't have access to the private forums.

Is there is a precedent from going from private to public, mods?

Thanks.
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« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2011, 08:39:06 AM »

Honestly, our salvation does not depend on the location of the Ark or on which language was the oldest. So let's everyone have whatever opinion on these matters and love each other as Borthers and Sisters in Christ. Because on him, our salvation does depend.
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« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2011, 08:55:47 AM »

Quote
Honestly, our salvation does not depend on the location of the Ark or on which language was the oldest. So let's everyone have whatever opinion on these matters and love each other as Borthers and Sisters in Christ. Because on him, our salvation does depend.
I totally agree. but there is no reason such things as the location of the Ark and the oldest language, not be discussed, as long as its within the confines of intellectual debate and brotherly love. however, these things are not "issues" with the Ethiopian Tewahedo Orthodox church, (which i happen to share communion with), but they are areas of academic interest, the exploration of which, cannot yield harm.
God bless
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« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2011, 01:31:20 PM »

Pursuant to the request of a couple of our members, this thread was moved here from the private forum.
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« Reply #40 on: October 08, 2011, 02:09:40 PM »

Would you put a piece of the Eucharist on public display?  In the old days, they used to forbid those who couldn't partake from even watching as people took Communion.
I watch people take Communion. Should I stop and just look down or something when people are Communing?
Quote
The Ark is not an ordinary relic.  No other object in the Bible ever had attributed to it the kind of power that the Ark had.
So it would kill people who want to venerate it in faith?
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« Reply #41 on: October 08, 2011, 02:11:54 PM »

One would think the EO's were jealous of the Ethiopians for having the Ark.  And to think, it used to be you guys were only jealous of our hats and our food.   Cheesy

Did you really have to make this into an EO vs OO thing?
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« Reply #42 on: October 08, 2011, 02:25:30 PM »

One might as well ask why Orthodox Christians are not allowed behind the altar.
Why are Orthodox Christians not allowed behind the altar?
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« Reply #43 on: October 08, 2011, 02:33:49 PM »

One might as well ask why Orthodox Christians are not allowed behind the altar.
Why are Orthodox Christians not allowed behind the altar?

Who says they're not allowed? I was back there just last month, and I'm technically not even Orthodox.
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« Reply #44 on: October 08, 2011, 02:46:20 PM »

One might as well ask why Orthodox Christians are not allowed behind the altar.
Why are Orthodox Christians not allowed behind the altar?

Who says they're not allowed? I was back there just last month, and I'm technically not even Orthodox.
It is generally discouraged, though, right?

I'm wondering because if the reason is "it's too holy" or something like that then I don't really understand how that makes sense. Christians eat and drink the Flesh and Blood of Christ and the old covenant way of "protecting" people from the divine presence is obsolete.

Right?
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