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Author Topic: Steve Jobs' Spirituality  (Read 3974 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: October 06, 2011, 04:52:01 PM »

Quote
(...)
Traversing India sparked Jobs' conversion to Buddhism. Kobun Chino, a monk, presided over his wedding to Laurene Powell, a Stanford University MBA.
(...)
"I believe life is an intelligent thing, that things aren't random," Jobs said in a 1997 interview with Time, providing a glimpse into his complicated belief system that extends well beyond the Buddhist teachings.
(...)
"That's been one of my mantras: focus and simplicity," Jobs told Businessweek in 1998. "Simple can be harder than complex: You have to work hard to get your thinking clean to make it simple. But it's worth it in the end because once you get there, you can move mountains."
He elaborated in the interview with the publication six years later: "It comes from saying no to 1,000 things to make sure we don't get on the wrong track or try to do too much. We're always thinking about new markets we could enter, but it's only by saying no that you can concentrate on the things that are really important."
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/05/tech/innovation/steve-jobs-philosophy/index.html
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« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2011, 08:37:29 PM »

Quote
(...)
Traversing India sparked Jobs' conversion to Buddhism. Kobun Chino, a monk, presided over his wedding to Laurene Powell, a Stanford University MBA.
(...)
"I believe life is an intelligent thing, that things aren't random," Jobs said in a 1997 interview with Time, providing a glimpse into his complicated belief system that extends well beyond the Buddhist teachings.
(...)
"That's been one of my mantras: focus and simplicity," Jobs told Businessweek in 1998. "Simple can be harder than complex: You have to work hard to get your thinking clean to make it simple. But it's worth it in the end because once you get there, you can move mountains."
He elaborated in the interview with the publication six years later: "It comes from saying no to 1,000 things to make sure we don't get on the wrong track or try to do too much. We're always thinking about new markets we could enter, but it's only by saying no that you can concentrate on the things that are really important."

This is just what I have heard.

Apple computer got their name and logo from the forbidden fruit story in Genesis.   The bite signifies the original sin.   The bite that would give the enlightened knowledge (gnosis) to know of good and evil and everything that is from God.

Also some of the original Apple computers were purposely sold for $666 dollars.

Google it, like I said, I'm not basting this in fact, nor do I know the full spirituality of both of the co-founders to Apple.

« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 08:38:22 PM by yeshuaisiam » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2011, 08:44:19 PM »

Quote
(...)
Traversing India sparked Jobs' conversion to Buddhism. Kobun Chino, a monk, presided over his wedding to Laurene Powell, a Stanford University MBA.
(...)
"I believe life is an intelligent thing, that things aren't random," Jobs said in a 1997 interview with Time, providing a glimpse into his complicated belief system that extends well beyond the Buddhist teachings.
(...)
"That's been one of my mantras: focus and simplicity," Jobs told Businessweek in 1998. "Simple can be harder than complex: You have to work hard to get your thinking clean to make it simple. But it's worth it in the end because once you get there, you can move mountains."
He elaborated in the interview with the publication six years later: "It comes from saying no to 1,000 things to make sure we don't get on the wrong track or try to do too much. We're always thinking about new markets we could enter, but it's only by saying no that you can concentrate on the things that are really important."

This is just what I have heard.

Apple computer got their name and logo from the forbidden fruit story in Genesis.   The bite signifies the original sin.   The bite that would give the enlightened knowledge (gnosis) to know of good and evil and everything that is from God.

Also some of the original Apple computers were purposely sold for $666 dollars.
So you just repeat whatever potentially slanderous tidbits you hear without verifying their factuality?

Google it, like I said, I'm not basting this in fact, nor do I know the full spirituality of both of the co-founders to Apple.
Why don't you Google it and come back to us with credible sources?
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« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2011, 09:42:11 PM »

Quote
(...)
Traversing India sparked Jobs' conversion to Buddhism. Kobun Chino, a monk, presided over his wedding to Laurene Powell, a Stanford University MBA.
(...)
"I believe life is an intelligent thing, that things aren't random," Jobs said in a 1997 interview with Time, providing a glimpse into his complicated belief system that extends well beyond the Buddhist teachings.
(...)
"That's been one of my mantras: focus and simplicity," Jobs told Businessweek in 1998. "Simple can be harder than complex: You have to work hard to get your thinking clean to make it simple. But it's worth it in the end because once you get there, you can move mountains."
He elaborated in the interview with the publication six years later: "It comes from saying no to 1,000 things to make sure we don't get on the wrong track or try to do too much. We're always thinking about new markets we could enter, but it's only by saying no that you can concentrate on the things that are really important."

This is just what I have heard.

Apple computer got their name and logo from the forbidden fruit story in Genesis.   The bite signifies the original sin.   The bite that would give the enlightened knowledge (gnosis) to know of good and evil and everything that is from God.

Also some of the original Apple computers were purposely sold for $666 dollars.

Google it, like I said, I'm not basting this in fact, nor do I know the full spirituality of both of the co-founders to Apple.



 Huh Lord, have mercy.
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« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2011, 10:50:11 PM »

Apple computer got their name and logo from the forbidden fruit story in Genesis.   The bite signifies the original sin.   The bite that would give the enlightened knowledge (gnosis) to know of good and evil and everything that is from God.

The co-founder of Apple, Steve Wozniak, says you're wrong: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFdX29mVrxA

It was suggested by a friend of Steve Jobs and they could not think of a better name.

Also some of the original Apple computers were purposely sold for $666 dollars.

Wozniak also says you're wrong on that too: http://news.cnet.com/1606-2-5937610.html?tag=nl.e433

It was a markup of 1/3 from the production cost of $500. That works out to $666.66. Wozniak claims they did not even know "666" had religious significance at the time they set the price.

I'm not basting this in fact, nor do I know the full spirituality of both of the co-founders to Apple.

Clearly.

As to the OP, I do not know that Jobs even had much or any exposure to Christ in his life. I don't know that many people really know what his beliefs were. But we can pray that Christ has mercy on him, and given the glimpses of his morality and perhaps repentance, maybe he will even find Christ's law was written on his heart all along. We can hope.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 10:50:59 PM by bogdan » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2011, 10:59:20 PM »

Apple computer got their name and logo from the forbidden fruit story in Genesis.   The bite signifies the original sin.   The bite that would give the enlightened knowledge (gnosis) to know of good and evil and everything that is from God.

The co-founder of Apple, Steve Wozniak, says you're wrong: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFdX29mVrxA

It was suggested by a friend of Steve Jobs and they could not think of a better name.

Also some of the original Apple computers were purposely sold for $666 dollars.

Wozniak also says you're wrong on that too: http://news.cnet.com/1606-2-5937610.html?tag=nl.e433

It was a markup of 1/3 from the production cost of $500. That works out to $666.66. Wozniak claims they did not even know "666" had religious significance at the time they set the price.

How refreshing to hear of someone who has no concept that 666 is the big bad number. It's been shamefully done to death.

Quote
I'm not basting this in fact, nor do I know the full spirituality of both of the co-founders to Apple.

Clearly.

As to the OP, I do not know that Jobs even had much or any exposure to Christ in his life. I don't know that many people really know what his beliefs were. But we can pray that Christ has mercy on him, and given the glimpses of his morality and perhaps repentance, maybe he will even find Christ's law was written on his heart all along. We can hope.

Indeed, we must hope. Internet judging does no one any good. As I said before. Lord, have mercy.
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« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2011, 11:58:04 PM »

What comes to mind is: "You have taken all good things in  this life and Lazarus the bad. Now he is comforted, and you are tormented."
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« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2011, 04:48:25 AM »

What comes to mind is: "You have taken all good things in  this life and Lazarus the bad. Now he is comforted, and you are tormented."
Do you think, then, that Steve Jobs is in hell?
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« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2011, 02:28:28 PM »

What comes to mind is: "You have taken all good things in  this life and Lazarus the bad. Now he is comforted, and you are tormented."
Do you think, then, that Steve Jobs is in hell?
Well, judging by his wikipedia entry (which is by no way authoriatative) he was Bhuddist so........

PP
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« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2011, 02:38:41 PM »

Well, judging by his Wikipedia entry (which is by no means authoritative) he was Buddhist so...

That doesn't tell us anything about the state of his soul.

He's trying to get through the toll-houses right now, so offer up some prayers for him.
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« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2011, 02:43:29 PM »

Well, judging by his Wikipedia entry (which is by no means authoritative) he was Buddhist so...

That doesn't tell us anything about the state of his soul.

Agreed. However...

Quote
He's trying to get through the toll-houses right now

There's an app for that.

Quote
so offer up some prayers for him.

There's also an app for that.
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« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2011, 02:46:10 PM »

Why doesn't the forum make this big a deal about it when anyone else dies? Is it more important that Jobs get into heaven then Billy Mays?
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« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2011, 02:47:31 PM »

Well, judging by his Wikipedia entry (which is by no means authoritative) he was Buddhist so...

That doesn't tell us anything about the state of his soul.

Agreed. However...

Quote
He's trying to get through the toll-houses right now

There's an app for that.

Quote
so offer up some prayers for him.

There's also an app for that.
Let's hope God isn't a Microsoft fan.
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« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2011, 02:48:42 PM »

Why doesn't the forum make this big a deal about it when anyone else dies?

It's human nature.
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« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2011, 02:50:06 PM »

Why doesn't the forum make this big a deal about it when anyone else dies?

Because I'm using an iMac to surf this forum right now.
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« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2011, 02:51:17 PM »

Well, judging by his Wikipedia entry (which is by no means authoritative) he was Buddhist so...

That doesn't tell us anything about the state of his soul.

Agreed. However...

Quote
He's trying to get through the toll-houses right now

There's an app for that.

Quote
so offer up some prayers for him.

There's also an app for that.
Let's hope God isn't a Microsoft fan.

Clearly Microsoft got help from someone--whether God or Satan I will leave for you to decide  angel
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« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2011, 02:56:39 PM »

Why doesn't the forum make this big a deal about it when anyone else dies?

It's human nature.
It's human nature to not make a big deal about people other than Jobs?
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« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2011, 02:56:52 PM »

Let's hope God isn't a Microsoft fan.

Actually, you can use Windows as your operating system on an Macintosh computer, so that's really the same as with any other computer, since Microsoft only makes software, not hardware. Never mind the fact that Macs actually give a better performance with Windows than any other hardware manufacturer.
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« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2011, 02:57:05 PM »

Well, judging by his Wikipedia entry (which is by no means authoritative) he was Buddhist so...

That doesn't tell us anything about the state of his soul.

Agreed. However...

Quote
He's trying to get through the toll-houses right now

There's an app for that.

Quote
so offer up some prayers for him.

There's also an app for that.
Let's hope God isn't a Microsoft fan.

Clearly Microsoft got help from someone--whether God or Satan I will leave for you to decide  angel
Xerox. Just like Apple.
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« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2011, 02:58:24 PM »

Let's hope God isn't a Microsoft fan.

Actually, you can use Windows as your operating system on an Macintosh computer, so that's really the same as with any other computer, since Microsoft only makes software, not hardware. Never mind the fact that Macs actually give a better performance with Windows than any other hardware manufacturer.
Do you have a source that with the same hardware configuration Macs provide a better performance on Windows?
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« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2011, 03:03:33 PM »

The top 0.001% of this country's population will go to hell; as for the rest, I don't know. But seriously, the guy was just a filthy capitalist exploiter. The Buddhist trappings only make the whole thing more disgusting and at the same time, comical, but in a dark, surrealist way.
So yeah, may God forgive him.
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« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2011, 03:05:10 PM »

Why doesn't the forum make this big a deal about it when anyone else dies?

It's human nature.
It's human nature to not make a big deal about people other than Jobs?

It's human nature to make a bigger deal about people who have attained some kind of celebrity status. Or put another way, the reason they have celebrity status is beacuse at least some people have taken a special interest in them, so why would you expect their death to not get more attention than the death of Joe Schmoe from Podunk? Joe Schmoe will get special attention as well, from his family and friends. And if Joe Schmoe was known on a discussion forum then he will probably get special attention there as well. If we don't have a clue who Joe Schmoe was, and if there's nothing atypical or inspiring/horrifying about his death, then he isn't likely to get as much attention.

Human nature.
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« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2011, 03:10:17 PM »

Well, judging by his Wikipedia entry (which is by no means authoritative) he was Buddhist so...

That doesn't tell us anything about the state of his soul.

He's trying to get through the toll-houses right now, so offer up some prayers for him.
"I am the way the truth and the life, no man cometh to the Father but by me". Sorry. I think Jobs has a big problem right about now. But I sincerely hope he is with the Lord and Im wrong.

The top 0.001% of this country's population will go to hell; as for the rest, I don't know. But seriously, the guy was just a filthy capitalist exploiter. The Buddhist trappings only make the whole thing more disgusting and at the same time, comical, but in a dark, surrealist way.
So yeah, may God forgive him.
And you'll compare your sins to his?

Well, judging by his Wikipedia entry (which is by no means authoritative) he was Buddhist so...

That doesn't tell us anything about the state of his soul.

Agreed. However...

Quote
He's trying to get through the toll-houses right now

There's an app for that.

Quote
so offer up some prayers for him.
.


There's also an app for that.
Let's hope God isn't a Microsoft fan.

Duh! God uses Linux!


PP
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« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2011, 03:17:58 PM »

"I am the way the truth and the life, no man cometh to the Father but by me". Sorry. I think Jobs has a big problem right about now. But I sincerely hope he is with the Lord and Im wrong.

There is a lot to learn about salvation. Hopefully you have a good catechist.

When a Buddhist is saved, he comes to the Father through Jesus Christ, and only through Jesus Christ.

Same goes for bourgeois hobby Buddhists.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 03:26:45 PM by Alveus Lacuna » Logged
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« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2011, 05:25:26 PM »

this thread eerily reminds me of a Baptist sermon..

Maybe I should read one of those treks from Jonathon Edwards, where everybody was shaking in their boots.  Cheesy
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« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2011, 05:57:38 PM »

Im not trying to sound like a baptist preacher or anything, but the guy was a Buddhist, espoused Buddhist (whether cliche' or not) beliefs, which deny Christ. I dont care how popular or well like the guy was. To me, trying to legitimize his way to God is a fool's errand. If he held to these beliefs until his unfortunate demise, then it is my personal belief that he is separated from God. To me, it dosen't matter if the guy thought Jesus was ok, or "a good moral teacher" or that other drivel. Im sorry if it sounds like Im pontificating, Im really not trying to. This is just my belief on this matter.

PP
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« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2011, 06:38:53 PM »

"I am the way the truth and the life, no man cometh to the Father but by me". Sorry. I think Jobs has a big problem right about now. But I sincerely hope he is with the Lord and Im wrong.

There is a lot to learn about salvation. Hopefully you have a good catechist.

When a Buddhist is saved, he comes to the Father through Jesus Christ, and only through Jesus Christ.

Same goes for bourgeois hobby Buddhists.

We need a thumbs up icon! Well said, Alveus.
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« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2011, 07:05:49 PM »

The top 0.001% of this country's population will go to hell; as for the rest, I don't know. But seriously, the guy was just a filthy capitalist exploiter. The Buddhist trappings only make the whole thing more disgusting and at the same time, comical, but in a dark, surrealist way.
So yeah, may God forgive him.
I don't know. I think the rich have a better chance of entering the kingdom of heaven than those who envy them.
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« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2011, 07:11:55 PM »

Im not trying to sound like a baptist preacher or anything, but the guy was a Buddhist, espoused Buddhist (whether cliche' or not) beliefs, which deny Christ. I dont care how popular or well like the guy was. To me, trying to legitimize his way to God is a fool's errand. If he held to these beliefs until his unfortunate demise, then it is my personal belief that he is separated from God. To me, it dosen't matter if the guy thought Jesus was ok, or "a good moral teacher" or that other drivel. Im sorry if it sounds like Im pontificating, Im really not trying to. This is just my belief on this matter.

PP
So, do you have the mind of God that you know all things, to include the state of Steve Jobs's soul? We know only what God has revealed to us. We know that He has revealed to us that no one comes to the Father but by Jesus Christ, but we cannot say that He has revealed to us whether or not Steve Jobs somehow had a saving knowledge of Him.
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« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2011, 07:12:49 PM »

"I am the way the truth and the life, no man cometh to the Father but by me". Sorry. I think Jobs has a big problem right about now. But I sincerely hope he is with the Lord and Im wrong.

There is a lot to learn about salvation. Hopefully you have a good catechist.

When a Buddhist is saved, he comes to the Father through Jesus Christ, and only through Jesus Christ.

Same goes for bourgeois hobby Buddhists.

We need a thumbs up icon! Well said, Alveus.

Two thumbs up.  As a catechumen, please correct me if I am wrong but...it is impossible for us to know the Jesus Christ who was presented to Mr. Jobs while he walked on this earth.  A person is wise to walk away from the so-called Christ who is presented by many who claim Christianity because that is not at all the Lord Jesus Christ whom you or I serve.  We simply cannot know this and would also be wise to stay very clear from any sort of judgement.  That is for God because He, alone, knows the answer and will judge rightly. God is written upon the hearts of all of humanity and many, when they encounter Him upon their physical repose, may recognize that they have served Him throughout their lifetime and, yet, never walked through the doors of the Church.  Likewise, there will be many who have attended Liturgies all of their lives (or even did miracles) who will not recognize our Savior when they lay eyes upon Him.  This is a clear teaching/warning of Christ in the Holy Scriptures. We should only pray for God's mercy to be upon Steve Jobs, and upon each and every one of us...and leave it at that.  

In other words, you know what happens when you assume...  
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« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2011, 07:25:41 PM »

For the record, not all Buddhists are atheists. Some believe Jesus was an emanation of Kannon, the bodhisattva of compassion. Now, that is clearly different from the Christian faith, but it's not atheistic per se. Remember that Buddhism was an offshoot of Hinduism.
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« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2011, 07:26:52 PM »

The top 0.001% of this country's population will go to hell; as for the rest, I don't know. But seriously, the guy was just a filthy capitalist exploiter. The Buddhist trappings only make the whole thing more disgusting and at the same time, comical, but in a dark, surrealist way.
So yeah, may God forgive him.
I don't know. I think the rich have a better chance of entering the kingdom of heaven than those who envy them.
I'm among those who utterly despise them. No fantasizing about becoming one.
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Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2011, 07:29:24 PM »

The top 0.001% of this country's population will go to hell; as for the rest, I don't know. But seriously, the guy was just a filthy capitalist exploiter. The Buddhist trappings only make the whole thing more disgusting and at the same time, comical, but in a dark, surrealist way.
So yeah, may God forgive him.
I don't know. I think the rich have a better chance of entering the kingdom of heaven than those who envy them.
I'm among those who utterly despise them. No fantasizing about becoming one.
And I think those who envy the rich have a better chance of entering the kingdom of heaven than those who utterly despise the rich.
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« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2011, 07:31:40 PM »

Are you a lackey of theirs? Your masters must be benevolent and magnanimous to have earned your devotion like this.
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« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2011, 07:32:42 PM »

Are you a lackey of theirs? Your masters must be benevolent and magnanimous to have earned your devotion like this.

 Roll Eyes Oh please.
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« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2011, 07:35:00 PM »

"I am the way the truth and the life, no man cometh to the Father but by me". Sorry. I think Jobs has a big problem right about now. But I sincerely hope he is with the Lord and Im wrong.

There is a lot to learn about salvation. Hopefully you have a good catechist.

When a Buddhist is saved, he comes to the Father through Jesus Christ, and only through Jesus Christ.

Same goes for bourgeois hobby Buddhists.

We need a thumbs up icon! Well said, Alveus.

Two thumbs up.  As a catechumen, please correct me if I am wrong but...it is impossible for us to know the Jesus Christ who was presented to Mr. Jobs while he walked on this earth.  A person is wise to walk away from the so-called Christ who is presented by many who claim Christianity because that is not at all the Lord Jesus Christ whom you or I serve.  We simply cannot know this and would also be wise to stay very clear from any sort of judgement.  That is for God because He, alone, knows the answer and will judge rightly. God is written upon the hearts of all of humanity and many, when they encounter Him upon their physical repose, may recognize that they have served Him throughout their lifetime and, yet, never walked through the doors of the Church.  Likewise, there will be many who have attended Liturgies all of their lives (or even did miracles) who will not recognize our Savior when they lay eyes upon Him.  This is a clear teaching/warning of Christ in the Holy Scriptures. We should only pray for God's mercy to be upon Steve Jobs, and upon each and every one of us...and leave it at that.  

In other words, you know what happens when you assume...  

Indeed.
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« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2011, 07:36:16 PM »

Are you a lackey of theirs? Your masters must be benevolent and magnanimous to have earned your devotion like this.

 Roll Eyes Oh please.

^ A better response, I cannot think of.  laugh
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« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2011, 07:51:45 PM »

Im not trying to sound like a baptist preacher or anything, but the guy was a Buddhist, espoused Buddhist (whether cliche' or not) beliefs, which deny Christ. I dont care how popular or well like the guy was. To me, trying to legitimize his way to God is a fool's errand. If he held to these beliefs until his unfortunate demise, then it is my personal belief that he is separated from God. To me, it dosen't matter if the guy thought Jesus was ok, or "a good moral teacher" or that other drivel. Im sorry if it sounds like Im pontificating, Im really not trying to. This is just my belief on this matter.

PP
So, do you have the mind of God that you know all things, to include the state of Steve Jobs's soul? We know only what God has revealed to us. We know that He has revealed to us that no one comes to the Father but by Jesus Christ, but we cannot say that He has revealed to us whether or not Steve Jobs somehow had a saving knowledge of Him.
As I said above, this is my opinion. I dont claim anything. It is simply my thought on the matter, nothing more. No God mind, no pontificating, no anything to build on. My opinion. Thats all.

PP
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« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2011, 07:53:33 PM »

The top 0.001% of this country's population will go to hell; as for the rest, I don't know. But seriously, the guy was just a filthy capitalist exploiter. The Buddhist trappings only make the whole thing more disgusting and at the same time, comical, but in a dark, surrealist way.
So yeah, may God forgive him.
I don't know. I think the rich have a better chance of entering the kingdom of heaven than those who envy them.
I'm among those who utterly despise them. No fantasizing about becoming one.

Im sure you'll think differently when publisher's Clearing house shows up at your door.

PP
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« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2011, 07:53:53 PM »

Im not trying to sound like a baptist preacher or anything, but the guy was a Buddhist, espoused Buddhist (whether cliche' or not) beliefs, which deny Christ. I dont care how popular or well like the guy was. To me, trying to legitimize his way to God is a fool's errand. If he held to these beliefs until his unfortunate demise, then it is my personal belief that he is separated from God. To me, it dosen't matter if the guy thought Jesus was ok, or "a good moral teacher" or that other drivel. Im sorry if it sounds like Im pontificating, Im really not trying to. This is just my belief on this matter.

PP
So, do you have the mind of God that you know all things, to include the state of Steve Jobs's soul? We know only what God has revealed to us. We know that He has revealed to us that no one comes to the Father but by Jesus Christ, but we cannot say that He has revealed to us whether or not Steve Jobs somehow had a saving knowledge of Him.
As I said above, this is my opinion. I dont claim anything. It is simply my thought on the matter, nothing more. No God mind, no pontificating, no anything to build on. My opinion. Thats all.

PP
Well, you know what they say about opinions? Wink
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« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2011, 07:55:58 PM »

Im not trying to sound like a baptist preacher or anything, but the guy was a Buddhist, espoused Buddhist (whether cliche' or not) beliefs, which deny Christ. I dont care how popular or well like the guy was. To me, trying to legitimize his way to God is a fool's errand. If he held to these beliefs until his unfortunate demise, then it is my personal belief that he is separated from God. To me, it dosen't matter if the guy thought Jesus was ok, or "a good moral teacher" or that other drivel. Im sorry if it sounds like Im pontificating, Im really not trying to. This is just my belief on this matter.

PP
So, do you have the mind of God that you know all things, to include the state of Steve Jobs's soul? We know only what God has revealed to us. We know that He has revealed to us that no one comes to the Father but by Jesus Christ, but we cannot say that He has revealed to us whether or not Steve Jobs somehow had a saving knowledge of Him.
As I said above, this is my opinion. I dont claim anything. It is simply my thought on the matter, nothing more. No God mind, no pontificating, no anything to build on. My opinion. Thats all.

PP
Well, you know what they say about opinions? Wink
In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane?


PP
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« Reply #41 on: October 07, 2011, 07:57:30 PM »

Im not trying to sound like a baptist preacher or anything, but the guy was a Buddhist, espoused Buddhist (whether cliche' or not) beliefs, which deny Christ. I dont care how popular or well like the guy was. To me, trying to legitimize his way to God is a fool's errand. If he held to these beliefs until his unfortunate demise, then it is my personal belief that he is separated from God. To me, it dosen't matter if the guy thought Jesus was ok, or "a good moral teacher" or that other drivel. Im sorry if it sounds like Im pontificating, Im really not trying to. This is just my belief on this matter.

PP
So, do you have the mind of God that you know all things, to include the state of Steve Jobs's soul? We know only what God has revealed to us. We know that He has revealed to us that no one comes to the Father but by Jesus Christ, but we cannot say that He has revealed to us whether or not Steve Jobs somehow had a saving knowledge of Him.
As I said above, this is my opinion. I dont claim anything. It is simply my thought on the matter, nothing more. No God mind, no pontificating, no anything to build on. My opinion. Thats all.

PP
Well, you know what they say about opinions? Wink
In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane?
Good guess, but no. What I was thinking is this: Opinions are like anuses. Everyone's got one, and they're all full of feces. Grin
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« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2011, 08:00:36 PM »

Im not trying to sound like a baptist preacher or anything, but the guy was a Buddhist, espoused Buddhist (whether cliche' or not) beliefs, which deny Christ. I dont care how popular or well like the guy was. To me, trying to legitimize his way to God is a fool's errand. If he held to these beliefs until his unfortunate demise, then it is my personal belief that he is separated from God. To me, it dosen't matter if the guy thought Jesus was ok, or "a good moral teacher" or that other drivel. Im sorry if it sounds like Im pontificating, Im really not trying to. This is just my belief on this matter.

PP
So, do you have the mind of God that you know all things, to include the state of Steve Jobs's soul? We know only what God has revealed to us. We know that He has revealed to us that no one comes to the Father but by Jesus Christ, but we cannot say that He has revealed to us whether or not Steve Jobs somehow had a saving knowledge of Him.
As I said above, this is my opinion. I dont claim anything. It is simply my thought on the matter, nothing more. No God mind, no pontificating, no anything to build on. My opinion. Thats all.

PP
Well, you know what they say about opinions? Wink
In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane?
Good guess, but no. What I was thinking is this: Opinions are like anuses. Everyone's got one, and they're all full of feces. Grin
Or other things, but that costs money.....


PP
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« Reply #43 on: October 07, 2011, 09:03:28 PM »

Im not trying to sound like a baptist preacher or anything, but the guy was a Buddhist, espoused Buddhist (whether cliche' or not) beliefs, which deny Christ. I dont care how popular or well like the guy was. To me, trying to legitimize his way to God is a fool's errand. If he held to these beliefs until his unfortunate demise, then it is my personal belief that he is separated from God. To me, it dosen't matter if the guy thought Jesus was ok, or "a good moral teacher" or that other drivel. Im sorry if it sounds like Im pontificating, Im really not trying to. This is just my belief on this matter.

PP
So, do you have the mind of God that you know all things, to include the state of Steve Jobs's soul? We know only what God has revealed to us. We know that He has revealed to us that no one comes to the Father but by Jesus Christ, but we cannot say that He has revealed to us whether or not Steve Jobs somehow had a saving knowledge of Him.
As I said above, this is my opinion. I dont claim anything. It is simply my thought on the matter, nothing more. No God mind, no pontificating, no anything to build on. My opinion. Thats all.

PP
Well, you know what they say about opinions? Wink
In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane?
Good guess, but no. What I was thinking is this: Opinions are like anuses. Everyone's got one, and they're all full of feces. Grin
Or other things, but that costs money.....


PP
you can also get it for free, but the free ones come with nasty things, like ciphilis

better to pay and be safe, plus the paid ones give you more sasitifaction

then again, if your cheap, just use a hairbrush
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« Reply #44 on: October 07, 2011, 09:16:26 PM »

Why don't we recess over the weekend? Things are getting a wee bit out of hand. I'll unlock the topic on Monday. Have a blessed weekend. Second Chance
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« Reply #45 on: October 07, 2011, 10:13:06 PM »

Let's hope God isn't a Microsoft fan.

Actually, you can use Windows as your operating system on an Macintosh computer, so that's really the same as with any other computer, since Microsoft only makes software, not hardware. Never mind the fact that Macs actually give a better performance with Windows than any other hardware manufacturer.
I love how this is turning into one of those Mac vs. PC discussions.
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« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2011, 08:36:54 AM »

Back from recess.
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« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2011, 08:38:33 AM »

I didn't realize that he was a Buddhist. Interesting. Very interesting.
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« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2011, 08:46:06 AM »

I didn't realize that he was a Buddhist. Interesting. Very interesting.

I assumed it once I heard a speech he gave to a graduating class when he spoke a line against the need for "dogmas" in our lives.  Red flag.  The westernized version of Buddhism is very much like the westernized version of Christianity, making it more palatable to the masses by emptying it of its foundational so-called truthes...or Truth, as the case may be.
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« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2011, 08:51:08 AM »

I didn't realize that he was a Buddhist. Interesting. Very interesting.

I assumed it once I heard a speech he gave to a graduating class when he spoke a line against the need for "dogmas" in our lives.  Red flag.  The westernized version of Buddhism is very much like the westernized version of Christianity, making it more palatable to the masses by emptying it of its foundational so-called truthes...or Truth, as the case may be.

I think you're referring to his Stanford speech, in 2005, which read, in part:

"No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don't want to die to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the single best invention of Life. It is Life's change agent. It clears out the old to make way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it is quite true.
 
Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma — which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.
"
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« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2011, 08:54:27 AM »

I didn't realize that he was a Buddhist. Interesting. Very interesting.

I assumed it once I heard a speech he gave to a graduating class when he spoke a line against the need for "dogmas" in our lives.  Red flag.  The westernized version of Buddhism is very much like the westernized version of Christianity, making it more palatable to the masses by emptying it of its foundational so-called truthes...or Truth, as the case may be.

I think you're referring to his Stanford speech, in 2005, which read, in part:

"No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don't want to die to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the single best invention of Life. It is Life's change agent. It clears out the old to make way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it is quite true.
 
Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma — which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.
"

Buddhism is quite possibly the most dogmatic religion in the world, by which I mean its doctrine is highly detailed, explicit, and systematic in a way that makes Christian scholasticism look downright sloppy.

But then there's business-exec "Zen" which I guess entails sitting in lotus position while thinking up new paths toward productivity, profit, etc.
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« Reply #51 on: October 10, 2011, 10:12:57 AM »

Buddhism is quite possibly the most dogmatic religion in the world, by which I mean its doctrine is highly detailed, explicit, and systematic in a way that makes Christian scholasticism look downright sloppy.

You weren't supposed to bring that up! That's not fair! You're spoiling a fine speech and ruining cool spiritual aura that Far Eastern religions have in the West. Sad
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« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2011, 09:51:18 AM »

Buddhism is quite possibly the most dogmatic religion in the world, by which I mean its doctrine is highly detailed, explicit, and systematic in a way that makes Christian scholasticism look downright sloppy.

But then there's business-exec "Zen" which I guess entails sitting in lotus position while thinking up new paths toward productivity, profit, etc.

Could you expand on this and give some examples, please?  Your idea is intriguing, but I would like to understand what you mean more clearly.

Ebor
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« Reply #53 on: October 12, 2011, 08:50:13 AM »

Buddhism is quite possibly the most dogmatic religion in the world, by which I mean its doctrine is highly detailed, explicit, and systematic in a way that makes Christian scholasticism look downright sloppy.

But then there's business-exec "Zen" which I guess entails sitting in lotus position while thinking up new paths toward productivity, profit, etc.

Could you expand on this and give some examples, please?  Your idea is intriguing, but I would like to understand what you mean more clearly.

Ebor

I'm assuming you're asking about the "scholastic" aspect of Buddhism. Starting with the sutras, Buddhist teaching tends to be presented is a very schematic fashion, e.g. the Four Noble Truths, the five skandhas, the six realms of samsara, etc. Some Western Buddhists have tried to frame the Buddha's teaching on karma and rebirth as either a) mere metaphor or b)  superfluous cultural baggage, but this is quickly dispelled by a cursory reading of the sutras where an incredibly detailed and systematic description of different kinds of karma and resultant rebirth is laid out. The presentations of this sort are often exhaustive to a point of tedium, though the "hell realms" and "hungry ghosts" can make for fun reading. Likewise one will find systematic presentations of mental states, objects of contemplation, etc. Buddhist doctrine was further systematized with the Abhidharma literature. These tendencies carried over to Tibet, China, Japan, etc. who developed their own scholastic systems such as the Tibetan lam-rim.  

This picture doesn't gel well with the perception of Buddhism as a non-dogmatic freethinkers religion. That perception came out of a lot of Buddhist, especially Chan/Zen, literature being presented in the West out of context. For example, when Zen masters urge their disciples to abandon the scriptures, they are speaking to a society where the Buddhist scriptures have been widely studied/ disseminated and the basic doctrines are widely understood. And in fact all the teachings considered unique to Zen are traceable to scriptures and schools of thought originating in India and make a lot more sense to someone familiar with those origins. But Western "Zen" practitioners took the "outside the scriptures" quotes as a license to fabricate what is essentially a ritualized self-help philosophy.

Western Buddhists though who are looking for more genuine Buddhism will find it more likely in the fairly uncompromising Tibetan and Chinese centers where the scholastic and liturgical qualities tend to remain intact.
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« Reply #54 on: October 12, 2011, 09:14:48 AM »

Western Buddhists though who are looking for more genuine Buddhism will find it more likely in the fairly uncompromising Tibetan and Chinese centers....
...or in the Thai Forest tradition.
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« Reply #55 on: October 26, 2011, 11:28:24 AM »

Steve Jobs now a saint?  Shocked http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/26/short-takes-are-we-turning-steve-jobs-into-a-saint/
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« Reply #56 on: October 26, 2011, 12:57:28 PM »

After reading some of the posts concerning this on here I'd say so.

PP
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« Reply #57 on: October 26, 2011, 01:41:04 PM »

Let's hope God isn't a Microsoft fan.

Actually, you can use Windows as your operating system on an Macintosh computer, so that's really the same as with any other computer, since Microsoft only makes software, not hardware. Never mind the fact that Macs actually give a better performance with Windows than any other hardware manufacturer.
I love how this is turning into one of those Mac vs. PC discussions.

That is the basis of most religions.  Good vs Evil.  These are just the incarnations of the machine-god that we have been shown.

Edit - In case I was unclear, PC's are the Good and Mac is the Bad.  Linux isn't as user friendly so they get to be the Ugly.  Which is OK.  I liked Tuco.  He had some good lines.
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« Reply #58 on: October 30, 2011, 04:03:52 AM »

Libelous charges against Steve Wozniak removed from post by moderator  -PtA


You did not post substantiation of your libelous charges against Steve Wozniak within the time frame I allotted you, so you are hereby muted indefinitely for libel. If you feel this action unfair, please appeal it to Fr. George.

- PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #59 on: October 30, 2011, 06:21:45 PM »

Im sure you'll think differently when publisher's Clearing house shows up at your door.

Are they (PCH) Christians? I'm wondering, because they're at the door now and I don't want to accep the check if they're Buddhists.
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« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2011, 06:38:11 PM »

Im sure you'll think differently when publisher's Clearing house shows up at your door.

Are they (PCH) Christians? I'm wondering, because they're at the door now and I don't want to accep the check if they're Buddhists.
You don't accept money from Buddhists?
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« Reply #61 on: October 30, 2011, 08:12:05 PM »

Im sure you'll think differently when publisher's Clearing house shows up at your door.

Are they (PCH) Christians? I'm wondering, because they're at the door now and I don't want to accep the check if they're Buddhists.
You don't accept money from Buddhists?

Not a chance. MCE has already filled us in on what associating with Buddhism did for Steve  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #62 on: October 30, 2011, 08:14:35 PM »

Im sure you'll think differently when publisher's Clearing house shows up at your door.

Are they (PCH) Christians? I'm wondering, because they're at the door now and I don't want to accep the check if they're Buddhists.
You don't accept money from Buddhists?
Shocked Even if a group of Mexican men with "Zs" tattooed on their faces came to my door with a million dollar check, I'm not asking any questions!
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« Reply #63 on: October 30, 2011, 09:02:18 PM »

The Last Words of Steve Jobs:

Quote
He told me, when he was saying goodbye and telling me he was sorry, so sorry we wouldn’t be able to be old together as we’d always planned, that he was going to a better place.

Dr. Fischer gave him a 50/50 chance of making it through the night.

He made it through the night, Laurene next to him on the bed sometimes jerked up when there was a longer pause between his breaths. She and I looked at each other, then he would heave a deep breath and begin again.

This had to be done. Even now, he had a stern, still handsome profile, the profile of an absolutist, a romantic. His breath indicated an arduous journey, some steep path, altitude.

He seemed to be climbing.

But with that will, that work ethic, that strength, there was also sweet Steve’s capacity for wonderment, the artist’s belief in the ideal, the still more beautiful later.

Steve’s final words, hours earlier, were monosyllables, repeated three times.

Before embarking, he’d looked at his sister Patty, then for a long time at his children, then at his life’s partner, Laurene, and then over their shoulders past them.

Steve’s final words were:

OH WOW. OH WOW. OH WOW.
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In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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« Reply #64 on: October 30, 2011, 09:47:58 PM »

Memory eternal!
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« Reply #65 on: October 31, 2011, 12:27:05 AM »

The Last Words of Steve Jobs:

Quote
He told me, when he was saying goodbye and telling me he was sorry, so sorry we wouldn’t be able to be old together as we’d always planned, that he was going to a better place.

Dr. Fischer gave him a 50/50 chance of making it through the night.

He made it through the night, Laurene next to him on the bed sometimes jerked up when there was a longer pause between his breaths. She and I looked at each other, then he would heave a deep breath and begin again.

This had to be done. Even now, he had a stern, still handsome profile, the profile of an absolutist, a romantic. His breath indicated an arduous journey, some steep path, altitude.

He seemed to be climbing.

But with that will, that work ethic, that strength, there was also sweet Steve’s capacity for wonderment, the artist’s belief in the ideal, the still more beautiful later.

Steve’s final words, hours earlier, were monosyllables, repeated three times.

Before embarking, he’d looked at his sister Patty, then for a long time at his children, then at his life’s partner, Laurene, and then over their shoulders past them.

Steve’s final words were:

OH WOW. OH WOW. OH WOW.

What a powerful article. I don't quite know what to make of it. I pray that, perhaps, he may even have been working out his salvation in those last hours. We may never know, but we should pray. Lord have mercy.
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« Reply #66 on: October 31, 2011, 12:37:13 AM »

I hope so too. I am sure some people prayed for him
while he was sick, maybe Christ met him at the end
and he accepted Him.
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« Reply #67 on: November 03, 2011, 02:02:38 PM »

The posts containing discussion of MCE's criminal allegations against Steve Wozniak have been moved to Purgatory, a location to which only the admins and mods have access.
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« Reply #68 on: November 12, 2011, 12:50:07 PM »

Are you a lackey of theirs? Your masters must be benevolent and magnanimous to have earned your devotion like this.

Christ's good friend, Lazarus, was a rich man. Jesus must have been some lackey to raise him from the dead!
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« Reply #69 on: November 12, 2011, 01:46:52 PM »

Buddhism is quite possibly the most dogmatic religion in the world, by which I mean its doctrine is highly detailed, explicit, and systematic in a way that makes Christian scholasticism look downright sloppy.

But then there's business-exec "Zen" which I guess entails sitting in lotus position while thinking up new paths toward productivity, profit, etc.

Could you expand on this and give some examples, please?  Your idea is intriguing, but I would like to understand what you mean more clearly.

Ebor

I'm assuming you're asking about the "scholastic" aspect of Buddhism. Starting with the sutras, Buddhist teaching tends to be presented is a very schematic fashion, e.g. the Four Noble Truths, the five skandhas, the six realms of samsara, etc. Some Western Buddhists have tried to frame the Buddha's teaching on karma and rebirth as either a) mere metaphor or b)  superfluous cultural baggage, but this is quickly dispelled by a cursory reading of the sutras where an incredibly detailed and systematic description of different kinds of karma and resultant rebirth is laid out. The presentations of this sort are often exhaustive to a point of tedium, though the "hell realms" and "hungry ghosts" can make for fun reading. Likewise one will find systematic presentations of mental states, objects of contemplation, etc. Buddhist doctrine was further systematized with the Abhidharma literature. These tendencies carried over to Tibet, China, Japan, etc. who developed their own scholastic systems such as the Tibetan lam-rim.  

This picture doesn't gel well with the perception of Buddhism as a non-dogmatic freethinkers religion. That perception came out of a lot of Buddhist, especially Chan/Zen, literature being presented in the West out of context. For example, when Zen masters urge their disciples to abandon the scriptures, they are speaking to a society where the Buddhist scriptures have been widely studied/ disseminated and the basic doctrines are widely understood. And in fact all the teachings considered unique to Zen are traceable to scriptures and schools of thought originating in India and make a lot more sense to someone familiar with those origins. But Western "Zen" practitioners took the "outside the scriptures" quotes as a license to fabricate what is essentially a ritualized self-help philosophy.

Western Buddhists though who are looking for more genuine Buddhism will find it more likely in the fairly uncompromising Tibetan and Chinese centers where the scholastic and liturgical qualities tend to remain intact.

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« Reply #70 on: November 18, 2011, 09:20:28 AM »

Quote
Many people have been asking me of late if Steve Jobs really was a Buddhist. The answer is yes, and for many years.

He was a Zen Buddhist, which inspired his simple, informal, monkish black dress code and the meticulously minimalist yet elegant consumer products he so ingeniously designed. If you look at Vincent van Gogh's self-portrait as a Zen monk you'll find many similarities with that other famously difficult creative genius.
....
Some wonder exactly what kind of Buddhist could be so famously impatient, rude and demanding. How could he be so emotional, even throwing tantrums? Relentlessly stubborn, he could be brutal to close friends, family and colleagues, act ruthlessly in both business and personal affairs and claim credit for others' ideas. Speaking as a fellow Buddhist, albeit of a different lineage, I have no easy answer or apology to offer for him in this respect. I think his having been adopted played into it -- the master of design simplicity had some very messy elements of his personal life. We teach what we need to learn, as the saying goes.

Maybe that's why this very complex and even contradictory personality so assiduously sought and loved simplicity.
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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