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Author Topic: Hey Goodlookin': Early Humans Dug Neanderthals  (Read 994 times) Average Rating: 0
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Jetavan
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« on: May 06, 2010, 03:23:42 PM »

Quote
Be careful whom you call a Neanderthal. You may be one yourself. Or at least you may have Neanderthal ancestors.

That's the conclusion of a study being released today that examined DNA extracted from Neanderthal bones more than 35,000 years old.
....
There's little question that modern humans and Neanderthals bumped into each other once upon a time.

"The archaeological record shows they overlapped between about 30,000 and 80,000 years ago," says David Reich, a geneticist at Harvard Medical School.

There was some fossil evidence that they may have done more than shake hands in passing, but the initial genetic evidence suggested otherwise.

"And so the big open question was whether they exchanged genes during that time when they overlapped in the Middle East and in Europe," he says.
....
 The main strategy for finding whether modern humans and Neanderthals exchanged genes was to compare the Neanderthal DNA with DNA from modern humans — some whose ancestors had remained in Africa, and others who had migrated to Europe, Asia and the new world. If the Neanderthal DNA was more similar to the non-African DNA, it would indicate that Neanderthals contributed their genes after the first modern humans migrated out of Africa.

Reich says that's what they found.

"The non-African is more closely related to the Neanderthal," Reich says. "Quite definitely. Highly statistically significantly overwhelming evidence that they're more closely related on average to Neanderthals."

In other words, Reich and his Leipzig co-authors are totally sure that Neanderthal genes found their way into modern human when the two species intersected. They report their findings in the journal Science.
In Catholicism, there's the notion that, if humanity evolved, then the physical body evolved, while God breathed the human spirit into the evolved physical body, at some point in time. (Perhaps this God-breathed spirit-ing occurred after the supposed Neanderthal intermixing.) Is a similar idea held by many Orthodox?
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 03:27:31 PM by Jetavan » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2010, 04:17:42 PM »

Quote
Be careful whom you call a Neanderthal. You may be one yourself. Or at least you may have Neanderthal ancestors.

That's the conclusion of a study being released today that examined DNA extracted from Neanderthal bones more than 35,000 years old.
....
There's little question that modern humans and Neanderthals bumped into each other once upon a time.

"The archaeological record shows they overlapped between about 30,000 and 80,000 years ago," says David Reich, a geneticist at Harvard Medical School.

There was some fossil evidence that they may have done more than shake hands in passing, but the initial genetic evidence suggested otherwise.

"And so the big open question was whether they exchanged genes during that time when they overlapped in the Middle East and in Europe," he says.
....
 The main strategy for finding whether modern humans and Neanderthals exchanged genes was to compare the Neanderthal DNA with DNA from modern humans — some whose ancestors had remained in Africa, and others who had migrated to Europe, Asia and the new world. If the Neanderthal DNA was more similar to the non-African DNA, it would indicate that Neanderthals contributed their genes after the first modern humans migrated out of Africa.

Reich says that's what they found.

"The non-African is more closely related to the Neanderthal," Reich says. "Quite definitely. Highly statistically significantly overwhelming evidence that they're more closely related on average to Neanderthals."

In other words, Reich and his Leipzig co-authors are totally sure that Neanderthal genes found their way into modern human when the two species intersected. They report their findings in the journal Science.
In Catholicism, there's the notion that, if humanity evolved, then the physical body evolved, while God breathed the human spirit into the evolved physical body, at some point in time. (Perhaps this God-breathed spirit-ing occurred after the supposed Neanderthal intermixing.) Is a similar idea held by many Orthodox?
Very interesting story. I wounder then if perhaps Neandethals could also claim Adam and Eve as their ancestors.
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« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2010, 04:44:52 PM »

* ducks and gets ready for another evolution debate *
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2010, 05:01:51 PM »

Quote
In Catholicism, there's the notion that, if humanity evolved, then the physical body evolved, while God breathed the human spirit into the evolved physical body, at some point in time.

Sounds ok with me  angel

Quote
(Perhaps this God-breathed spirit-ing occurred after the supposed Neanderthal intermixing.)

Cue the Geiko caveman commercials...  Grin
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« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2010, 04:16:42 AM »

I believe that the human spirit, the rational consciousness and ego which separates humanity from all other 'higher order' animals like dolphins and chimps, came into the human species as a result of evolution directly in accord with God's divine will.
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« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2010, 10:29:08 AM »

I believe that the human spirit, the rational consciousness and ego which separates humanity from all other 'higher order' animals like dolphins and chimps, came into the human species as a result of evolution directly in accord with God's divine will.
How can spirit result from the physical forces of evolution? Granted, I believe in evolution, but I don't think that our souls can be the result of evolution.
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« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2010, 11:36:49 AM »

Quote
Be careful whom you call a Neanderthal. You may be one yourself. Or at least you may have Neanderthal ancestors.

That's the conclusion of a study being released today that examined DNA extracted from Neanderthal bones more than 35,000 years old.
....
There's little question that modern humans and Neanderthals bumped into each other once upon a time.

"The archaeological record shows they overlapped between about 30,000 and 80,000 years ago," says David Reich, a geneticist at Harvard Medical School.

There was some fossil evidence that they may have done more than shake hands in passing, but the initial genetic evidence suggested otherwise.

"And so the big open question was whether they exchanged genes during that time when they overlapped in the Middle East and in Europe," he says.
....
 The main strategy for finding whether modern humans and Neanderthals exchanged genes was to compare the Neanderthal DNA with DNA from modern humans — some whose ancestors had remained in Africa, and others who had migrated to Europe, Asia and the new world. If the Neanderthal DNA was more similar to the non-African DNA, it would indicate that Neanderthals contributed their genes after the first modern humans migrated out of Africa.

Reich says that's what they found.

"The non-African is more closely related to the Neanderthal," Reich says. "Quite definitely. Highly statistically significantly overwhelming evidence that they're more closely related on average to Neanderthals."

In other words, Reich and his Leipzig co-authors are totally sure that Neanderthal genes found their way into modern human when the two species intersected. They report their findings in the journal Science.
In Catholicism, there's the notion that, if humanity evolved, then the physical body evolved, while God breathed the human spirit into the evolved physical body, at some point in time. (Perhaps this God-breathed spirit-ing occurred after the supposed Neanderthal intermixing.) Is a similar idea held by many Orthodox?

Not exactly. St Theophan the recluse taught that human nature was Body , Soul and Spirit. I believe that there are fathers that believe animals also have a souls but not a spirit.
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« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2010, 12:01:52 PM »

The earth digs into itself to find its origin;
   it cries "Deep unto deep" as is it descends down into the time of man's life again.

From dust thou was taken, to dust thou shalt return;
   ever downward, downward the spiral staircase turns?

The mystery of earth's origin is in the Ladder of Divine Descent;
   but the Light of He who is the Resurrection illuminates earths highest assent.    

Great is the mystery which unfolds from the past;
   I will return again He told Abraham after Sarah laughed, I am your future come back from the past.

"In the time of mans life" the mystery unfurls,
   and two of the most important participants were girls...

What was the sign that his promise was true?
 Sarah became pregnant
            and the Virgin did too.

"I ain't a monkey," a man once said...
   "and I ain't no saint," the monkey replied...

A marriage was born and so was the lie;
  all this was written and all this has been said...

Now tell me, "HOW, do I get this Neanderthal outa my head?!!!!


John




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« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2010, 12:05:07 PM »

Papist,

If your interested, I would like to start a discussion thread on evolution. I don't believe in evolution and would be interested in discussing it with you (and other who want to join).
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Orthodox11
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« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2010, 12:17:15 PM »

I wonder how these findings will be interpreted by the wider community with respect to race-relations, eugenics and things of that nature. I remember the fury caused by the Nobel prize winner James Watson, who argued that Africa's prospects were 'gloomy' because “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really."

I know that in China, the school system already teaches that Chinese people evolved separately to other ethnic groups.

It worries me to think what more sinister elements of society might do with ideas such as these at a time when fewer and fewer people attribute the equality of all people to be divinely instituted.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 12:18:08 PM by Orthodox11 » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2010, 01:17:25 PM »

Papist,

If your interested, I would like to start a discussion thread on evolution. I don't believe in evolution and would be interested in discussing it with you (and other who want to join).

We already have a thread for ze evolution debate.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,4959.0.html
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« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2010, 01:47:58 PM »

I wonder how these findings will be interpreted by the wider community with respect to race-relations, eugenics and things of that nature. I remember the fury caused by the Nobel prize winner James Watson, who argued that Africa's prospects were 'gloomy' because “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really."

I know that in China, the school system already teaches that Chinese people evolved separately to other ethnic groups.

It worries me to think what more sinister elements of society might do with ideas such as these at a time when fewer and fewer people attribute the equality of all people to be divinely instituted.
Interesting questions. Scientifically, the Neanderthals are either classified as a subspecies of man (Homo sapiens neanderthalensis) or as a different species, Homo neanderthalensis.

I didn't know the Chinese engaged in such behavior. I knew that the Japanese did.
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
Jetavan
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« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2013, 08:46:38 PM »

"Decoding Neanderthals"
Shared DNA reveals a deep connection with our long-vanished human cousins.

In the traditional view, Neanderthals differed from "us" in behavior and capabilities as well as anatomy. But were they really mentally inferior, as inexpressive and clumsy as the cartoon caveman they inspired? NOVA explores a range of intriguing new evidence for Neanderthal self-expression and language, all pointing to the fact that we may have seriously underestimated our mysterious, long-vanished human cousins.
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
Ruprecht
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« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2013, 10:26:45 PM »

"Decoding Neanderthals"
Shared DNA reveals a deep connection with our long-vanished human cousins.

In the traditional view, Neanderthals differed from "us" in behavior and capabilities as well as anatomy. But were they really mentally inferior, as inexpressive and clumsy as the cartoon caveman they inspired? NOVA explores a range of intriguing new evidence for Neanderthal self-expression and language, all pointing to the fact that we may have seriously underestimated our mysterious, long-vanished human cousins.
Great program, I've watched it twice already!  It raises some interesting points about our ancestors and hints at an answer the old question, what happened to the Neandertals?  Maybe H. Sapiens didn't wipe them out; instead, H.S. "married" them!!  Absorbing the Neandertals into the Sapiens line helped both lines: it gave them a future and added some 'good bits' to our DNA, improving genetic diversity.  Watch it if you have a chance.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 10:28:02 PM by Subdeacon Bob.C » Logged
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