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Author Topic: Merged discussion of all things Milan Synod  (Read 26617 times) Average Rating: 0
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Irish Hermit
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« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2011, 12:42:01 AM »

Milan and its new daughter Church in the States (MAB) already in schism

http://news-nftu.blogspot.com/2011/03/european-and-american-metropolias.html#more

The official web site of the Holy Synod of Milan (
http://ihtis.wordpress.com/2011/03/03/statement/ ) formally claims, through
its office of External Relations, that it has entered into fraternal
relations with the Moscow Patriarchate and that it rejects communion with
any body referred to as "the Catacomb Church".

This claim was made approximately a week after the elevation of the American
Archdioceses to the status of an Autonomous Metropolia and annexing the
territory of Latin America and the British Isles to same.

In response, a clergy confession approved by Metropolitan John for clergy
entrants into the Metropolia has now surfaced on at least one website  (
http://milanfansite.blogspot.com/2011/03/new-clergy-confession-approved.html
 ), appearing to be a modified version of the clergy confession used by
American parishes directly under Archbishop Auxentios in the 1990's (now
HOCNA) with further clarifications on Sergianism and the agnostic position
of the Metropolis on grace in official Orthodoxy-- as well as a note from
the author that the Metropolia will not enter into communion with the Moscow
Patriarchate.


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« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2011, 02:23:57 AM »

The Clergy Confession, blessed by HB Metropolitan JOHN is now on the website of
the Metropolia.

http://www.milansynodusa.org/2011/03/text-of-confession-of-faith-to-be.html#more
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« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2011, 03:59:42 AM »

The Clergy Confession, blessed by HB Metropolitan JOHN is now on the website of
the Metropolia.

http://www.milansynodusa.org/2011/03/text-of-confession-of-faith-to-be.html#more

Will non-juring priests whose conscience cannot accept provisions in the Clergy Confession be expelled from MAB (Metropolia of America and Britain)?
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« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2011, 04:09:06 AM »

I have been requested to not respond to Fr Ambrose, who consistently acts against the interests of the Church.
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« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2011, 04:12:42 AM »

I can find no notification on any Milan site that the Synod of Milan has erected an Autonomous Metropolia of America and Britain.

Is this a schismatic move by Archbp John LoBue of New York?
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« Reply #50 on: March 06, 2011, 04:16:32 AM »

For all those wondering,

The Tomos of Autonomy of the Milan Synod, which has been granted to a number of clergy of our Synod, will be made available shortly. It has been approved by the overwhelming majority of the Bishops of the Synod.

The full text of the Tomos will be available in the third edition of Lux Veritatis as well.

For my part, I hope all these Moscow negotiations are just a misstatement.
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« Reply #51 on: March 06, 2011, 04:20:18 AM »

Is this a tactful way of referring to former Milan Synod Churches in USA as schismatics, by referring to them as autonomous and maintaining "Communion" with them?   Huh
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« Reply #52 on: March 06, 2011, 04:31:22 AM »

One thing which we are not hearing are reasons why a Church was broken in two.

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« Reply #53 on: March 06, 2011, 04:32:39 AM »

Is this a tactful way of referring to former Milan Synod Churches in USA as schismatics, by referring to them as autonomous and maintaining "Communion" with them?   Huh

Not at all. We were granted autonomy a week before these discussions with Moscow came to light. We have, as an autonomous Metropolia, every right to disagree with these discussions and assume, as previous discussions, that they will simply fail. As well as publicly do so.
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« Reply #54 on: March 06, 2011, 04:58:50 AM »

Is this a tactful way of referring to former Milan Synod Churches in USA as schismatics, by referring to them as autonomous and maintaining "Communion" with them?   Huh

Not at all. We were granted autonomy a week before these discussions with Moscow came to light. We have, as an autonomous Metropolia, every right to disagree with these discussions and assume, as previous discussions, that they will simply fail. As well as publicly do so.

The Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America is supposedly autonomous and rarely, if ever, disagrees with the Ecumenical Patriarchate.  Your definition of autonomous must be different from mine.
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« Reply #55 on: March 06, 2011, 05:03:46 AM »

The Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America is supposedly autonomous and rarely, if ever, disagrees with the Ecumenical Patriarchate.  Your definition of autonomous must be different from mine.

Yes, it is.
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« Reply #56 on: March 06, 2011, 06:03:30 AM »

One thing which we are not hearing are reasons why a Church was broken in two.

Perpaps they're just trying to create new local churches? I've understood that besides being an Old Calendarist church Milan Synod's another point is to be Western local churh for the westerners.
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« Reply #57 on: March 06, 2011, 06:29:24 AM »

I have been requested to not respond to Fr Ambrose...

By whom?
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« Reply #58 on: March 06, 2011, 07:47:34 AM »


I have been requested to not respond to Fr Ambrose, who consistently acts against the interests of the Church.


What  is the Church?  

On your Blog NFTU you list these Churches as the true Orthodox Church.

This is a uniquely modern expression of the Church where none of its branches are in communion with the other branches.  It's heretical ecumenism and the Branch Theory carried to an extreme.

How can these Churches comprise the Church when your own Church refuses to be in communion with any of them, except for one (the small group of Met Angehelos of Avlonos created about 2 years ago.)

Autonomous True Orthodox Metropolia of Western Europe and America
Holy Orthodox Church in North America
ROCiE Metropolitanate of Moscow under Metropolitan Damascene of Moscow
Russian Orthodox Autonomous Church under Metropolitan Valentine of Suzdal
Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia under Archbishop Anthony of San Fransisco
Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia under Archbishop Vladimir of San Fransisco
Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia- under Metropolitan Agafangel of Odessa
Genuine Orthodox Church of Greece under Abp Kallinikos of Athens
Genuine Orthodox Church of Greece under Archbishop Makarios of Athens
Genuine Orthodox Church Of Greece under Archbishop Nicholas of Athens
Genuine Orthodox Church of Greece under Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Thebes
Genuine Orthodox Church of the Patristic Calendar of Metropolitan Anghelos of Avlonos
Genuine Orthodox Synod under Metropolitan Kirykos of Mesogaia
Russian True Orthodox Church under Archbishop Tikhon of Omsk
Synod in Resistance under Metropolitan Cyprian of Fili

« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 07:48:16 AM by Irish Hermit » Logged
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« Reply #59 on: March 06, 2011, 10:21:36 AM »

The Clergy Confession, blessed by HB Metropolitan JOHN is now on the website of
the Metropolia.

http://www.milansynodusa.org/2011/03/text-of-confession-of-faith-to-be.html#more


Is this Clergy Confession part of the reason that the Milan Synod has cut
its American segment loose?  It contains exaggerations and extremist
positions which would not sit well with Milan and its more moderate and
irenic approach to the ancient Patriarchates and Churches.

How many of the new Metropolia of America & Britain clergy have signed it?
How many have refused?

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« Reply #60 on: March 06, 2011, 07:04:00 PM »

The Clergy Confession, blessed by HB Metropolitan JOHN is now on the website of
the Metropolia.

http://www.milansynodusa.org/2011/03/text-of-confession-of-faith-to-be.html#more


Father Simon-Salos, the senior monastic of Milan-America, calls into
question the assertions made by the deacon of Saint Eulalia Joseph Suaiden
about the  so-called "Clergy Confession."

He also reveals that some priests have said they will not sign it.

_____________________________________________

http://hermitage-journal.blogspot.com/

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« Reply #61 on: April 03, 2011, 11:37:17 PM »

Synod of Milan Wishes to come into Union with Moscow

http://ihtis.wordpress.com/2011/03/29/informazioni-riguardando-notizzie-della-nostra-metropolia/

The brief English-language summary on the website fails to include the most
interesting part of the Italian original: "...in dialogo fraterno col
Patriarcato di Mosca, per una futura unità con la Chiesa madre russa sottò
l'Omoforion di Sua Santità Patriarca Kirill."

"...in fraternal dialogue with the Patriarchate of Moscow, for a future
unity with the Mother Church of Russia under the omophorion of His Holiness
Patriarch Kirill."

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« Reply #62 on: April 04, 2011, 01:49:49 AM »

It appears both http://ihtis.wordpress.com and http://www.metropoliadimilano.it have removed their links to the American Metropolia's websites, presumably due to their opposition to concelebration and in anticipation of potential union with Moscow. This may have been done at the order of those who have recently and publicly expressed strong support for such a position.

The official American website (http://www.milansynodusa.org) contains a recent post refusing to accept concelebration with World Orthodoxy, as well as noting an investigation into recent claims on the Milan websites.

The Milan Synod granted the American Archdioceses autonomy and Metropolitan status in February.
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« Reply #63 on: April 04, 2011, 06:44:11 AM »

Why Moscow? I though that Milan Synod was born of the Greek Church so Constantinople or Athens would feel more natural choice.
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« Reply #64 on: April 04, 2011, 06:49:08 AM »

Are there Milan clergy in the newly formed Metropolia of America and Britain
who would prefer to remain under the jurisdiction of Metropolitan Evloghios
and make the transition into the Russian Orthodox Church when the union
shall take place in the future?  It makes a lot of sense.

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« Reply #65 on: April 04, 2011, 07:01:06 AM »

Why Moscow? I though that Milan Synod was born of the Greek Church so Constantinople or Athens would feel more natural choice.

One of the retired pages from the official website of the Synod of Milan

"The Autonomous Metropolia of Milan – Synod of Milan – of Russian Origin"   

http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20040521014750/http://utenti.lycos.it/Santo_Ambrogio/id18.htm
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« Reply #66 on: April 04, 2011, 07:46:08 AM »

Synod of Milan Wishes to come into Union with Moscow

Does it apply to all of the Synod of Milan, including their WR parishes?
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« Reply #67 on: April 04, 2011, 09:21:16 AM »

Synod of Milan Wishes to come into Union with Moscow

Does it apply to all of the Synod of Milan, including their WR parishes?

Are there any Milan's WR parishes in Europe?
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« Reply #68 on: April 04, 2011, 12:22:59 PM »

Let me try to understand this.  The Milan Synod in Europe wants concelebration with Moscow, ostensibly meaning that they would then be in communion with not only Moscow, but the rest of "World Orthodoxy".  Have I got that right?

But the Milan Synod in Europe has granted autonomy to the Milan Synod in the U.S., thereby creating of them a so-called "metropolia".  And this new "metropolia" opposes concelebration with World Orthodoxy, if I understand correctly.  So, 1/2 of the schismatics want to rejoin the fold, but they spawned a new schism which wants to remain in communion with....themselves. 

Just a hypothetical question, which I hope, will remain just that:  If the new "metropolia" of the Milan Synod were to desire and then come into communion with "World Orthodoxy", what then would be the status of someone like Mr. Yelovich?  He was previously discussed on this website and has been laicized and ex-communicated by the Antiochian Archdiocese of America, having basically ex-communicated himself previously.  He has also been "re-ordained" by Archbishop John of the new "metropolia".

(I'd be happy to move this into a new thread if the mods think it appropriate.  I don't mean to derail this thread.)
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« Reply #69 on: April 04, 2011, 01:42:25 PM »

The Milan Synod granted the American Archdioceses autonomy and Metropolitan status in February.
All things considered, the timing of that seems to be most fortuitous.
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« Reply #70 on: April 04, 2011, 01:44:05 PM »

The MP should teach the Milan Synod what 'autonomous' mean before accepting them.
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« Reply #71 on: April 04, 2011, 02:37:50 PM »

The Milan Synod's sister church in North America has broken communion with it (http://www.milansynodusa.org/2011/04/status-of-current-churches-in-communion.html), so unless there's an underground movement in individual communities in North America for union with world Orthodoxy I doubt much will change in their status.

The Milan Synod in Europe is mostly Byzantine Rite if I'm not mistaken, with a mix of Russian and Romanian heritage communities (and converts as well?).
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« Reply #72 on: April 04, 2011, 03:13:12 PM »

This is getting extremely weird. So this American Synod got autonomy from Milan Synod in February and now the American Synod breaks communion with Milan Synod due to Ecumenism. Since it's rather doubtful that the Milan Synod has changed since February doesn't this mean that American Synod got autonomy from Ecumenists?
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« Reply #73 on: April 04, 2011, 03:29:54 PM »

This is getting extremely weird. So this American Synod got autonomy from Milan Synod in February and now the American Synod breaks communion with Milan Synod due to Ecumenism. Since it's rather doubtful that the Milan Synod has changed since February doesn't this mean that American Synod got autonomy from Ecumenists?

"Weird" is absolutely the correct word for this!  Pretty soon, if things "progress" (I use that term very loosely here!) as they have been, the "American Synod" of the Milan Synod will be breaking communion with itself in it's effort to not be in communion with those who are not in communion with themselves already  Huh Roll Eyes.   Wowie Zowie  Cool!

Are these folks for real?  Or are they not for real?  Or are they really not really real for real?

Eeek--I've just given myself a headache  Grin.

Once upon a time, I tried to trace the supposed "apostolic" succession of these guys.  I finally decided that I wasn't quite so masochistic as to continue to try unraveling that particular ball of string.  Now *there* was a headache!  Sheesh!
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« Reply #74 on: April 04, 2011, 03:34:19 PM »

Once upon a time, I tried to trace the supposed "apostolic" succession of these guys.  I finally decided that I wasn't quite so masochistic as to continue to try unraveling that particular ball of string.  Now *there* was a headache!  Sheesh!

They have none (according to the mainstream EOC) as they are outside the aforementioned Church.
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« Reply #75 on: April 04, 2011, 03:36:04 PM »

This is getting extremely weird. So this American Synod got autonomy from Milan Synod in February and now the American Synod breaks communion with Milan Synod due to Ecumenism. Since it's rather doubtful that the Milan Synod has changed since February doesn't this mean that American Synod got autonomy from Ecumenists?

It's even weirder for us.

In fact the Milan Synod had changed in January. We had established none of the communications with our current sister Churches, but established communications later. In fact, we were under the impression that this would remain the path of our Synod.

We had been discussing our own autonomy since November.

However, we learned that these dialogues with the MP began at Nativity this year. They were not even mentioned to our Metropolitan when he was in Italy. We discovered them by accident: the Greeks began negotiations with the Russian TOC Synod under Metr Rafail, and the first letter-- indicating the negotiations with any Synod but Moscow-- was written as a response to that.

We honestly had no idea in America what on earth was going on. Hence the force of the individual responses, both public and private. More will be said soon.
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« Reply #76 on: April 04, 2011, 03:43:51 PM »

The MP should teach the Milan Synod what 'autonomous' mean before accepting them.

Oh, I am sure the good folks involved in the negotiations will accept whatever words on paper they get, sadly.
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« Reply #77 on: April 04, 2011, 03:50:19 PM »

This is getting extremely weird. So this American Synod got autonomy from Milan Synod in February and now the American Synod breaks communion with Milan Synod due to Ecumenism. Since it's rather doubtful that the Milan Synod has changed since February doesn't this mean that American Synod got autonomy from Ecumenists?

It's even weirder for us.

In fact the Milan Synod had changed in January. We had established none of the communications with our current sister Churches, but established communications later. In fact, we were under the impression that this would remain the path of our Synod.

We had been discussing our own autonomy since November.

However, we learned that these dialogues with the MP began at Nativity this year. They were not even mentioned to our Metropolitan when he was in Italy. We discovered them by accident: the Greeks began negotiations with the Russian TOC Synod under Metr Rafail, and the first letter-- indicating the negotiations with any Synod but Moscow-- was written as a response to that.

We honestly had no idea in America what on earth was going on. Hence the force of the individual responses, both public and private. More will be said soon.

But does any of this matter to *anybody* at all other than those inside your group?  That is, unless you were actually exploring communion with mainstream Orthodox Christianity in a serious and realistic manner.  And then my question above would become very relevant and important.
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« Reply #78 on: April 04, 2011, 03:54:07 PM »

http://news-nftu.blogspot.com/2011/04/american-and-european-metropolias-no.html

"Furthermore, the Greek Sister Synod had issued a statement only a few months ago declaring the Mysteries of the Patriarchates to be invalid. This along with the American and Greek Sister Synods insistence upon the European Synod adopting a clearer stance provoked factions within the European Synod to flare up and 'seize' control. After a few days of these pro-unionist sentiments being expressed on Milan's official Italian website, there were heated responses and contacts. Matters devolved rather quickly, especially with the infamous Bishop Abundius in control effectively of the European Synod. Bishop Abundius made clear that he desired a union with the Patriarchates, and especially with the Moscow Patriarchate, and he would not tolerate statements that contradicted this, let alone that called into question the grace or salvific character of the Mysteries and ecclesial actions of the Moscow Patriarchate, or any other World Orthodox Patriarchate.

While an investigation was still being conducted on the part of sources in Europe (including the Greek Sister Church of the Milan Synod, as well as the American Sister Church), a statement was published which ended the communion between the American and Greek Churches and the Synod in Milan. The statement can be found here:

http://ihtis.wordpress.com/2011/04/04/statement-2/

It makes clear, among other things, that the Synod in Milan will seek union with the MP under any circumstances, and that it will punish any relcacitrant clergy in Italy who refuse; as well as stating that it has ended any liturgical communion with any Old Calendarist Orthodox Church or with those it had formerly been in communion with (i.e., the American, Greek, and Bulgarian Synods). It further commands its clergy to commemorate the Patriarch of Moscow, and the MP's Metropolitan of Moldova."
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« Reply #79 on: April 04, 2011, 04:02:44 PM »

They were once part of the Church and they still use the name Orthodox and claim Orthodoxy, so I would say it still effects us (whether we like it or not).
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« Reply #80 on: April 04, 2011, 04:05:06 PM »

This is getting extremely weird. So this American Synod got autonomy from Milan Synod in February and now the American Synod breaks communion with Milan Synod due to Ecumenism. Since it's rather doubtful that the Milan Synod has changed since February doesn't this mean that American Synod got autonomy from Ecumenists?

The apostolic succession of the majority of Greek Old Calendarists can be said to derive from the New Calendar Ecumenist Abp Theophil (Ionescu), so this is nothing new.  When the Old Calendarists in Greece that were formerly led by Met Chrysostom of Florina found themselves without any bishops after the repose of Met Chrysostom in 1955, Abp Theophil (Ionescu) and Abp Seraphim of Chicago (both of ROCOR, but acting without approval from the Synod) consecrated Abp Akakios (Pappas) in 1960 to serve the Greek Old Calendarists.  Ironically, Abp Theophil was on the New Calendar at the time of the consecration while Abp Akakios’ group of Old Calendarists officially considered sacraments performed by New Calendar clergy and hierarchs to be devoid of any sacramental grace.  Abp Theophil later became increasingly ecumenistic, even commemorating Pope Paul the VI in 1970 (http://rocorstudies.org/?sid=135&aid=10861&idpage=lives_of_bishops).  

Milan has been trying for years to get one of the Patriarchates to receive them, and historically Milan itself has not been very concerned with the calendar issue or ecumenism, so you could say that the new “American Metopolia” has their succession from an Ecumenist Synod (Milan), but so do most of the Greek Old Calendarists thanks to Abp Theophil.  If you look at the history, every Old Calendarist bishop can be traced back to succession from New Calendar bishops involved in ecumenism.  In other words, if you apply their ecclesiological algorithm historically, neither they or anyone else can be said to have true bishops with true grace-filled mysteries.
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« Reply #81 on: April 04, 2011, 04:18:40 PM »

The MP should teach the Milan Synod what 'autonomous' mean before accepting them.

Oh, I am sure the good folks involved in the negotiations will accept whatever words on paper they get, sadly.

Hello there, Fr. Joseph!  This does pose a good question.  I remember that you posted a very good article on the Internet years ago by Fr. Victor Melehov concerning HOCNA's dubious canonicity, particularly asking how HOCNA can claim to be autonomous without belonging to an autocephalous church.  I thought at the time that you considered the subject of HOCNA’s self-appointed autonomy to be very problematic.  How does this issue relate to your present circumstances?  What autocephalous church is the Autonomous Metropolia of Milan a member of?  If you are a self-governing part of an autocephalous church (according to your own ecclesiology), who is the chief hierarch of that autocephalous church?     
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« Reply #82 on: April 04, 2011, 04:49:11 PM »

This is getting extremely weird. So this American Synod got autonomy from Milan Synod in February and now the American Synod breaks communion with Milan Synod due to Ecumenism. Since it's rather doubtful that the Milan Synod has changed since February doesn't this mean that American Synod got autonomy from Ecumenists?

The apostolic succession of the majority of Greek Old Calendarists can be said to derive from the New Calendar Ecumenist Abp Theophil (Ionescu), so this is nothing new.  When the Old Calendarists in Greece that were formerly led by Met Chrysostom of Florina found themselves without any bishops after the repose of Met Chrysostom in 1955, Abp Theophil (Ionescu) and Abp Seraphim of Chicago (both of ROCOR, but acting without approval from the Synod) consecrated Abp Akakios (Pappas) in 1960 to serve the Greek Old Calendarists.  Ironically, Abp Theophil was on the New Calendar at the time of the consecration while Abp Akakios’ group of Old Calendarists officially considered sacraments performed by New Calendar clergy and hierarchs to be devoid of any sacramental grace.  Abp Theophil later became increasingly ecumenistic, even commemorating Pope Paul the VI in 1970 (http://rocorstudies.org/?sid=135&aid=10861&idpage=lives_of_bishops).  

Milan has been trying for years to get one of the Patriarchates to receive them, and historically Milan itself has not been very concerned with the calendar issue or ecumenism, so you could say that the new “American Metopolia” has their succession from an Ecumenist Synod (Milan), but so do most of the Greek Old Calendarists thanks to Abp Theophil.  If you look at the history, every Old Calendarist bishop can be traced back to succession from New Calendar bishops involved in ecumenism.  In other words, if you apply their ecclesiological algorithm historically, neither they or anyone else can be said to have true bishops with true grace-filled mysteries.


My headache just got worse  Wink.
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« Reply #83 on: April 04, 2011, 05:13:56 PM »

Isn't this already being discussed in 2 other concurrent threads here?  Was a 3rd thread really necessary?
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« Reply #84 on: April 04, 2011, 05:19:50 PM »

Isn't this already being discussed in 2 other concurrent threads here?  Was a 3rd thread really necessary?

The other threads don't link to his blog, this one does Tongue  Not that I'm above shameless self-promotion myself, when the time is right...
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« Reply #85 on: April 04, 2011, 05:24:01 PM »

Hello there, Fr. Joseph!  This does pose a good question.  I remember that you posted a very good article on the Internet years ago by Fr. Victor Melehov concerning HOCNA's dubious canonicity, particularly asking how HOCNA can claim to be autonomous without belonging to an autocephalous church.  I thought at the time that you considered the subject of HOCNA’s self-appointed autonomy to be very problematic.  How does this issue relate to your present circumstances? 

Well, these are very good questions and may shed more insight into the historical thinking behind the Western Synod, but I don't think the HOCNA situation is totally applicable in the circumstances... I will see if I can help but the answers will probably not, in a quick post, be very satisfying.

First, let's touch upon the HOCNA matter, and why it became problematic. With the death of Archbishop Auxentios and the separation of Abp Maximos and Athanasios of Larisa, the HOCNA was in the unenviable position of having effectively three American diocesan Bishops (one reportedly made without Synodal permission, but I doubt that claim) widowed to elect a new Primate in Greece. Due to a dearth of candidates, the HOCNA (doing the best they could under their circumstances) declared Athens vacant and made Metr Makarios the locum tenens of the see. I believe that was in 1995 or 1996.

However, HOCNA's actions in 2001 which Fr Victor protested were that five years later, no mission work was done in Greece nor attempts to establish a first-hierarch, but without reason they dissolved the TOC of Greece. (How true that is can be questioned, which I didn't consider. They did enter into negotiations with the Makarios Synod, and they are currently in negotiation with the Synod of Abp Kallinikos). Here we run into a question of motives. The HOCNA Bishops basically take the position that calling themselves the TOC of Greece was a legal fiction and that this would open the possibility for negotiation under another Synod. The reality is that both those things were true. Fr Victor's position was that because the TOC of Greece had become a legal fiction, they had a responsibility to make an Archbishop of Athens immediately, calling any other actions they took into question. Well, technically, that isn't true immediately after the fact but after five years the argument becomes valid. Giving themselves autonomy in that position lends credibility to his argument that this was grasping for power.  Metr Moses' current position, however, seems to find balance between these two positions-- which is that after recognizing the validity of the TOC of Greece with Abp Kallinikos, it becomes a necessity to drop any pretense of independence until it is granted by the Synod of same. Of course, the TOC of Greece under Abp Kallinikos already has such a Synod in America, so it would simply be a matter of merging the two.

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What autocephalous church is the Autonomous Metropolia of Milan a member of?  If you are a self-governing part of an autocephalous church (according to your own ecclesiology), who is the chief hierarch of that autocephalous church? 

First, the official name of the Church is "Autonomous Orthodox Metropolia of Western Europe and the Americas".

(Oh boy.... time for me to duck now before stuff gets thrown at me). Technically, both the sees of Lisbon (the previous primatial see) and Milan were fully autonomous national Churches, though for practical purposes those Churches were what we would call autocephalous today. The distinction between "autonomy" and "autocephaly" before the schism is considerably more blurry than today, and that ambiguity coupled with the unique situation of restoring old Western sees left the Autonomous Metropolia in the strange position of appealing to a Patriarchate because that confirmation normatively came from Rome (I say normatively because this isn't even formally true either; this developed largely in the last centuries before the schism and was not always used. In at least two cases I can remember, the Orthodox Bishop at the time of the schism in the West rejected the pallium.)

Thus, by the time of this writing, there were in fact three independent national jurisdictions in communion in the Western Synod: that of Milan, Spain, and Germany, America being under the care of Milan being the first see, particularly since Milan wavered between Metropolitan and Patriarchal status. In this regard, Metropolitan Evloghios' formal Tomos of autonomy raised the Americas (and, oddly, the British Isles) to an equal status as Milan. We were regarded not as a daughter Church, but as a sister Church. Abp Abundius' stated position was "they are now formally outside our jurisdiction").

Today's statement marks a decided change in the Synod's actions. Besides *retiring* everyone outside Italy in Europe (we are still investigating to see exactly how that occurred), the Bishops in Italy seem to be placing themselves under the MP in Moldova. This is the same volte-face we saw with the Portuguese Bishops in 1990, but the Synod remains, and we are therefore charged with the responsibility, however feasible, to restore a Metropolitanate in Milan. So one could in theory say that we are in the HOCNA's position of 1995, but we did not place ourselves in this position. The Bishops in Italy, through recent actions, have unfortunately done it for us.
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« Reply #86 on: April 04, 2011, 05:29:21 PM »

Isn't this already being discussed in 2 other concurrent threads here?  Was a 3rd thread really necessary?

The other threads don't link to his blog, this one does Tongue  Not that I'm above shameless self-promotion myself, when the time is right...

If by "his blog" you mean this, http://news-nftu.blogspot.com, yes, I'm afraid they do.  And, guess what....he got us discussing on this thread, now, too!  Mission accomplished? 

Btw, I appreciated your use of the adjective "shameless"  Grin.
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« Reply #87 on: April 04, 2011, 05:46:37 PM »

Synod of Milan Wishes to come into Union with Moscow

Does it apply to all of the Synod of Milan, including their WR parishes?

Are there any Milan's WR parishes in Europe?

I thought so as I remembered this video but now I can see that the thing actually happened in the US.
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« Reply #88 on: April 04, 2011, 06:39:06 PM »

If by "his blog" you mean this, http://news-nftu.blogspot.com, yes, I'm afraid they do.  And, guess what....he got us discussing on this thread, now, too!  Mission accomplished? 

Btw, I appreciated your use of the adjective "shameless"  Grin.

Why do you seem content with one thread when they are dealing with three different things? These things are happening as we speak. I assume that the "removal of sites" thread will drop, as there's little left to discuss, but this matters not simply for us, but:

1) for Orthodox traditionalists interested in their Western heritage
2) Western-rite people in canonically problematic situations who want a home in the True Church
3) Traditional Orthodox Synods who have been historically disappointed in the behavior of people in our Synod who know that many of us, including our Metropolia, have been trying to clean up the mess we've made in the past and perhaps open a door to better communication
4) Members of our Sister Churches
5) The Moscow Patriarchate, which should be put on notice that in this deal, all they're getting is Milan (maybe that's all they want? Control of the Lazaretto to have a base in Italy, such as the monstrosity the FSB is sponsoring in France?)

So to answer your previous question, which I assume motivates this response: it affects a lot of people.
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« Reply #89 on: April 04, 2011, 10:49:05 PM »

How about the Latin American Archdiocese under Met. Chrysostom (Celi-Almeida) which recently established communion with the Synod of Milan? With whom are they going?
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