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Poll
Question: Orthodox Christians/Church are...
Lacking in our scriptural knowledge and this must be improved - 21 (61.8%)
Lacking butknowing scripture is not important - 2 (5.9%)
Weak in details but strong in the biggerpicture - 4 (11.8%)
strong across the board, both details and big picture - 7 (20.6%)
Total Voters: 34

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« Reply #45 on: October 08, 2011, 10:54:44 PM »

I don't think we ever answered the question of WHY we may not read the Bible as voraciously as our Protestant neighbors if we believe that (Eastern) Orthodox Christianity is so Biblical.

I think that the ethos is more that the biblical canon is Orthodox, not that the Orthodox Church is Biblical. To say that something is "Biblical" is more coming from the reconstructionist point of view, that we have to "look back" to Scripture to figure out the right faith. We believe that we have maintained that faith from the beginning, and that the books we have included in the canon conform to our faith, not the other way around.
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« Reply #46 on: October 08, 2011, 11:01:18 PM »

Those of us who's parents and grandparents came from the Old Country probably know that the old folks never read Bibles and probably were only familiar with the Epistle and Gospel readings in church.

And how many of those Christians were even literate or able to read the Holy Scriptures at home?
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« Reply #47 on: October 09, 2011, 08:37:09 AM »

I don't think we ever answered the question of WHY we may not read the Bible as voraciously as our Protestant neighbors if we believe that (Eastern) Orthodox Christianity is so Biblical.

I think the question is why we DO not read the Bible as voraciously as opposed as why we MAY.  We have permission, we just don't do it for some reason.
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« Reply #48 on: October 09, 2011, 08:43:17 AM »

I don't think we ever answered the question of WHY we may not read the Bible as voraciously as our Protestant neighbors if we believe that (Eastern) Orthodox Christianity is so Biblical.

I think the question is why we DO not read the Bible as voraciously as opposed as why we MAY.  We have permission, we just don't do it for some reason.
Basically my question: WHY NOT?
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« Reply #49 on: October 09, 2011, 08:46:11 AM »

I don't think we ever answered the question of WHY we may not read the Bible as voraciously as our Protestant neighbors if we believe that (Eastern) Orthodox Christianity is so Biblical.

I think the question is why we DO not read the Bible as voraciously as opposed as why we MAY.  We have permission, we just don't do it for some reason.

If Orthodoxy has a lot of other books and traditions that it includes in its teaching then scripture from the bible wouldn't seem as important. The bible is all we have and it's all we need because it's the living word of God.
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« Reply #50 on: October 09, 2011, 08:47:51 AM »

Twould be interesting if a priest read the sermon of St. John Chrysostom, in which he criticizes his flock for knowing all the names and activities of various celebrities--athletes, actors, politicians, etc.--but yet don't know the basic stuff about/from the Bible. The priest could introduce the text as "something a bishop once wrote," and then reveal at the end that it was written over 1,600 years ago. Things haven't changed much. Except he could point out that now it's no longer merely the rich who can afford the sacred texts, and it's not only a small portion of the population who are literate. I think, then as now, the reason people (and I'm not excluding myself) don't read the Bible is that we just don't take the Bible, or the claims we make about it, seriously enough. We like to speak about it in lofty terms, we like to kiss it and reverence it, and talk about how it's holy and whatever else. But we can't be troubled to read it. Ok, some read it, but do we really read as often and as deeply as we would if we truly believed that in it we could find the greatest wisdom available to man (or whatever language you want to use)?

Um... and with that I yield the soapbox.
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« Reply #51 on: October 09, 2011, 12:37:21 PM »

I don't think we ever answered the question of WHY we may not read the Bible as voraciously as our Protestant neighbors if we believe that (Eastern) Orthodox Christianity is so Biblical.

I think the question is why we DO not read the Bible as voraciously as opposed as why we MAY.  We have permission, we just don't do it for some reason.

If Orthodoxy has a lot of other books and traditions that it includes in its teaching then scripture from the bible wouldn't seem as important. The bible is all we have and it's all we need because it's the living word of God.

So you're Calvinist now?
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« Reply #52 on: October 09, 2011, 02:01:22 PM »

The bible is all we have and it's all we need because it's the living word of God.

Jesus Christ is the living Word of God, not the bible. And the bible is not all that you need, because if you don't eat his Flesh and drink his Blood, you have no life in you.
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« Reply #53 on: October 09, 2011, 03:10:38 PM »

If Orthodoxy has a lot of other books and traditions that it includes in its teaching then scripture from the bible wouldn't seem as important. The bible is all we have and it's all we need because it's the living word of God.

Christ didn't give the apostles a New Testament, He founded a Church on them.
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« Reply #54 on: October 09, 2011, 03:15:47 PM »

Twould be interesting if a priest read the sermon of St. John Chrysostom, in which he criticizes his flock for knowing all the names and activities of various celebrities--athletes, actors, politicians, etc.--but yet don't know the basic stuff about/from the Bible. The priest could introduce the text as "something a bishop once wrote," and then reveal at the end that it was written over 1,600 years ago. Things haven't changed much. Except he could point out that now it's no longer merely the rich who can afford the sacred texts, and it's not only a small portion of the population who are literate. I think, then as now, the reason people (and I'm not excluding myself) don't read the Bible is that we just don't take the Bible, or the claims we make about it, seriously enough. We like to speak about it in lofty terms, we like to kiss it and reverence it, and talk about how it's holy and whatever else. But we can't be troubled to read it. Ok, some read it, but do we really read as often and as deeply as we would if we truly believed that in it we could find the greatest wisdom available to man (or whatever language you want to use)?

Um... and with that I yield the soapbox.

My Priest did, I think it was just the Sunday of or before the Superbowl, IIRC. He read that sermon as his homily and basically pointed out the obvious and what you did about the availability of Scripture.
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« Reply #55 on: October 09, 2011, 04:04:39 PM »

Well, if one goes to church on a regular basis, you'll wind up hearing a lot of Scripture over time. There's Orthros, then the Divine Liturgy, so all those readings add up. It is true, in the past a lot of people probably didn't have formal educations, but they would go and hear Scripture read in church. I bet they knew more of it than I do.  angel
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« Reply #56 on: October 09, 2011, 04:08:57 PM »

Quote from: Jetavan
What good is it to "know" a lot of Bible verses if you misunderstand what these verses are saying?

Dingdingding. I'd much rather know and digest Scripture in a modest amount, and get the main ideas, than be able to rattle off one-liners like a parrot, just because I liked the sound they made, or because I learned a false sense of wielding them like a stick in a bad debate.
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« Reply #57 on: October 09, 2011, 04:35:53 PM »

On a related note, what texts would one recommend for accurate studying (with or without cliffnotes)?  I have heard critiques of both the Orthodox Study Bible and New Oxford Annotated Bible (being NRSV).  Is there perhaps separate books for each parcel of the bible with faithful translations in English? 
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« Reply #58 on: October 09, 2011, 04:44:24 PM »

My Priest did, I think it was just the Sunday of or before the Superbowl, IIRC. He read that sermon as his homily and basically pointed out the obvious and what you did about the availability of Scripture.

I hope it motivated/convicted/edified/etc. people  Smiley
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« Reply #59 on: October 09, 2011, 04:49:56 PM »

On a related note, what texts would one recommend for accurate studying (with or without cliffnotes)?  I have heard critiques of both the Orthodox Study Bible and New Oxford Annotated Bible (being NRSV).  Is there perhaps separate books for each parcel of the bible with faithful translations in English? 

Fwiw I don't think there's a problem with either translation you mention. True, some texts are better than others, but nonetheless no version is going to be perfect, not even if you're in some library studying ancient manuscripts. I think sincerity and a level-headed docility are the most helpful things. But if you're looking for traditional understandings of certain passages/books, some of the texts given in this thread might be of interest.
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« Reply #60 on: October 09, 2011, 04:50:16 PM »

My Priest did, I think it was just the Sunday of or before the Superbowl, IIRC. He read that sermon as his homily and basically pointed out the obvious and what you did about the availability of Scripture.

I hope it motivated/convicted/edified/etc. people  Smiley

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« Reply #61 on: October 09, 2011, 04:55:47 PM »

I didn't participate in the poll because I am not baptized yet (and as I am an inquirer into the OO, not EO, I'm not sure how well I could answer the question even if I were), but I want to present something...a confession, if you will, for your consideration and understanding of how things can be sometimes for a convert.

Having been raised Protestant in an actively (not just culturally) Christian home, of course I was raised with the idea that the Bible is the self-contained font of all knowledge necessary to live a good Christian life. My mother, who did the raising, was never terribly dogmatic about it or anything, but certainly knew her way around the Bible (always reading it constantly, and writing notes in the margins) and raised me to know it, too. And she would even take me with her to her Bible study at the Presbyterian church, and made sure that when they embarked upon a "Read the Bible in a Year" schedule/project, I would also be reading the entire Bible in that time. It was fun, honestly! I liked it. Got to feel like a grown-up at age 11 or whatever, and learn a lot of things about the Bible.

Fast forward about a dozen years, she had been deceased for about a decade, and I was being received into the Roman Catholic Church. During that time, I learned again about the books of the Bible (especially those that are in common with the Orthodox church that are not found in Protestant Bibles; that was a revelation), what was in them, and how they supported the Roman church's claims.

So here I am now, at nearly 30 years of age, and I feel like I have been taught a lot about the Bible, its contents, and how it supports this or that doctrine of a/the church.

But honestly, I also feel a bit like I am playing a game of "catch-up" with actual Orthodox people (to say nothing of the great Fathers and other saints of the church, whom I would hope we all look up to in this way) in understanding what it all means, rather than simply reading it (as I did when I was a child, with my mother), or "proof"-reading it (as I did when I was Roman Catholic), or doing other things that are befitting it if you approach it from a literalist, or rational, or similar perspective.

I can read the Bible all day, every day (time permitting, of course), but can I understand it as the church has and does? Obviously outside of the church, the answer is no, but even as I approach the church, the answer is maybe still no, or more positively "maybe, but not yet" (or "not by myself"). I mean, I don't even have a proper translation of it yet (just the NAB given to me by the RC, and my mother's old NIV...neither of these are good or faithful translations), to say nothing of the fact that there has been a lack of a suitably Orthodox translation into English until very recently (yes, OO I know have recommended the Orthodox Study Bible, but at the church I go to we use the NKJV, so I hesitate to buy anything without first checking with one of our priests).

I guess my point is that it isn't as simple as the question in the OP, since knowledge of scripture can mean many different things. The devils can probably quote scripture at a level that would rival any Orthodox person...in fact, I know they can, because many people are led astray by anti-Christian heresies presenting themselves as "Biblical". Lord have mercy on us all.
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« Reply #62 on: October 09, 2011, 05:25:26 PM »

That is why a parish bible study is so important, since it is led by the priest.  He can teach the scriptures from the standpoint of the Church.  Commentaries, such as those by the ancient Fathers, are also invaluable. 
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« Reply #63 on: October 09, 2011, 05:38:28 PM »

I don't think we ever answered the question of WHY we may not read the Bible as voraciously as our Protestant neighbors if we believe that (Eastern) Orthodox Christianity is so Biblical.

I think the question is why we DO not read the Bible as voraciously as opposed as why we MAY.  We have permission, we just don't do it for some reason.

If Orthodoxy has a lot of other books and traditions that it includes in its teaching then scripture from the bible wouldn't seem as important. The bible is all we have and it's all we need because it's the living word of God.

So you're Calvinist now?

What was i before?
/laughs
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« Reply #64 on: October 09, 2011, 05:48:01 PM »

Twould be interesting if a priest read the sermon of St. John Chrysostom, in which he criticizes his flock for knowing all the names and activities of various celebrities--athletes, actors, politicians, etc.--but yet don't know the basic stuff about/from the Bible. The priest could introduce the text as "something a bishop once wrote," and then reveal at the end that it was written over 1,600 years ago. Things haven't changed much. Except he could point out that now it's no longer merely the rich who can afford the sacred texts, and it's not only a small portion of the population who are literate. I think, then as now, the reason people (and I'm not excluding myself) don't read the Bible is that we just don't take the Bible, or the claims we make about it, seriously enough. We like to speak about it in lofty terms, we like to kiss it and reverence it, and talk about how it's holy and whatever else. But we can't be troubled to read it. Ok, some read it, but do we really read as often and as deeply as we would if we truly believed that in it we could find the greatest wisdom available to man (or whatever language you want to use)?

Um... and with that I yield the soapbox.

My Priest did, I think it was just the Sunday of or before the Superbowl, IIRC. He read that sermon as his homily and basically pointed out the obvious and what you did about the availability of Scripture.
Good priest.
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« Reply #65 on: October 09, 2011, 06:10:25 PM »

The bible is all we have and it's all we need because it's the living word of God.

Jesus Christ is the living Word of God, not the bible. And the bible is not all that you need, because if you don't eat his Flesh and drink his Blood, you have no life in you.

If we remain and continue in Jesus' words we will know the truth and that is a promise John 8:31-32, 2 Timothy 1:13, 2 Timothy 3:7. God reveals Himself and information about Himself: Paul's Gospel came through a revelation of Jesus Christ Galatians 1:12. And many passages tell us that God has spoken the words of Scripture. Old Testament quotations are introduced in the New Testament. Jesus said David was inspired by the Spirit Matthew 22:43. Peter said "the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David" Acts 1:16. Hebrews 3:7 says "as the Holy Spirit says."

The bible words are the very words of God. Spoken by the Spirit of God and therefore living.

As far as the bread and wine is concerned. When blood is mentioned in scripture its referring to a violent death as in Psalm 27:2 where David is explaining that the wicked want to profit from his death not actually eat him! In 1 Chronicles 11:19 when he talks about drinking the blood of these men he doesn't mean it literally <it's water anyway> but he is talking about profiting from their death and benefiting from it.

Besides, eating and drinking of his flesh and blood, are not the only things related to having everlasting life, obeying, believing and coming to Jesus all have the result of gaining everlasting life. John 6:57 says that the Father sent Jesus and Jesus lives because of His Father and then says that if we feed on Him we will also live because of Him.
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« Reply #66 on: October 09, 2011, 06:22:19 PM »

The bible is all we have and it's all we need because it's the living word of God.

Jesus Christ is the living Word of God, not the bible. And the bible is not all that you need, because if you don't eat his Flesh and drink his Blood, you have no life in you.

If we remain and continue in Jesus' words we will know the truth and that is a promise John 8:31-32, 2 Timothy 1:13, 2 Timothy 3:7. God reveals Himself and information about Himself: Paul's Gospel came through a revelation of Jesus Christ Galatians 1:12. And many passages tell us that God has spoken the words of Scripture. Old Testament quotations are introduced in the New Testament. Jesus said David was inspired by the Spirit Matthew 22:43. Peter said "the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David" Acts 1:16. Hebrews 3:7 says "as the Holy Spirit says."

The bible words are the very words of God. Spoken by the Spirit of God and therefore living.

As far as the bread and wine is concerned. When blood is mentioned in scripture its referring to a violent death as in Psalm 27:2 where David is explaining that the wicked want to profit from his death not actually eat him! In 1 Chronicles 11:19 when he talks about drinking the blood of these men he doesn't mean it literally <it's water anyway> but he is talking about profiting from their death and benefiting from it.

Besides, eating and drinking of his flesh and blood, are not the only things related to having everlasting life, obeying, believing and coming to Jesus all have the result of gaining everlasting life. John 6:57 says that the Father sent Jesus and Jesus lives because of His Father and then says that if we feed on Him we will also live because of Him.

Fountain Pen,

We Orthodox believe that we really partake of the Lord's Body and Blood in the Eucharist (as I assume you already know).  You won't find any support for your position here.
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« Reply #67 on: October 09, 2011, 06:25:01 PM »

I don't know why he brought that up, i was just responding to his post.
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« Reply #68 on: October 09, 2011, 06:25:47 PM »

"Take, drink of it ALL OF YOU, this is My blood..."

You can't really pick and choose from Christ's commandments, my friend. Clearly, eating Christ's body and drinking His blood are not the only things that are necessary to do to obtain eternal life, such that so long as you receive communion you are automatically "saved" (which is not something I have ever heard any Orthodox person argue, anyway), but just the same, they are absolutely, 10000000000000% necessary to having life. Unless you eat His body and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Christ said that IN the Bible! (John 6:53)

It is important to remember or realize that the Orthodox faith is not minimalist. I know that, and I'm not even Orthodox (or particularly bright)! It is not enough to say "well, there are other things involved and I'll do those other things, and not this thing that CHRIST HIMSELF COMMANDED." Remember, if you love Him, you will keep His commandments.
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« Reply #69 on: October 09, 2011, 06:26:27 PM »

I don't know why he brought that up, i was just responding to his post.

I apologize if I came across as rude and abrupt.   Smiley
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« Reply #70 on: October 09, 2011, 06:35:01 PM »

"Take, drink of it ALL OF YOU, this is My blood..."

You can't really pick and choose from Christ's commandments, my friend. Clearly, eating Christ's body and drinking His blood are not the only things that are necessary to do to obtain eternal life, such that so long as you receive communion you are automatically "saved" (which is not something I have ever heard any Orthodox person argue, anyway), but just the same, they are absolutely, 10000000000000% necessary to having life. Unless you eat His body and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Christ said that IN the Bible! (John 6:53)

It is important to remember or realize that the Orthodox faith is not minimalist. I know that, and I'm not even Orthodox (or particularly bright)! It is not enough to say "well, there are other things involved and I'll do those other things, and not this thing that CHRIST HIMSELF COMMANDED." Remember, if you love Him, you will keep His commandments.

I think i gave a fuller explaination than you're giving me credit for. You can't just say this is what he said so there! You have to know why it was said and in what context.

I didn't take it as rudeness pete, you're just telling me how it is <smiles>
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« Reply #71 on: October 09, 2011, 06:57:18 PM »

Quote
You can't just say this is what he said so there!

Uh...but that is what He said, and just as importantly, what He did. If He had not said and did those things, we would not be having this conversation.

Quote
You have to know why it was said and in what context.


I am not ignoring the context; I am suggesting to you that the context is understood completely and properly within the Church, as it has been since the founding of the church. This was my point in writing that Orthodox Christians do not take the view that because there are other things also to be done, therefore this very important thing that Christ told us to do can be neglected or thought of as minor, or not physically real, or whatever.

Remember also the preaching to the Pharisees in Luke: "These you ought to have done without leaving the others undone". This was to correct people who tithed while neglecting justice and the love of God, but with a little bit of work I know we can see how it applies to us as well, even when we aren't talking about tithing.  Wink

Perhaps it would help to mention that I am a student of the Alexandrian school of Biblical interpretation, which tends toward metaphor and allegory over more narrow literal or historical understandings. But anyway, my point is not to argue, only to show why your viewpoint is not likely to warmly received here. Peace!
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« Reply #72 on: October 09, 2011, 07:05:14 PM »

Perhaps it would help to mention that I am a student of the Alexandrian school of Biblical interpretation, which tends toward metaphor and allegory
Props to you! Then you'll understand the other scriptures i posted and that David didn't mean them literally.
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« Reply #73 on: October 09, 2011, 07:16:02 PM »

Eh...let's not jump the gun, friend; "tending toward allegory" is not the same as not taking a particular passage literally. When it comes to the understanding of the Eucharist as being the real body and real blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and the passages that explicitly state this and state our need to partake of them, I see no essential difference between the EO and the OO (though I welcome EO corrections on this point, if needed).
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« Reply #74 on: October 09, 2011, 07:19:47 PM »

If we remain and continue in Jesus' words we will know the truth and that is a promise John 8:31-32, 2 Timothy 1:13, 2 Timothy 3:7. God reveals Himself and information about Himself: Paul's Gospel came through a revelation of Jesus Christ Galatians 1:12. And many passages tell us that God has spoken the words of Scripture. Old Testament quotations are introduced in the New Testament. Jesus said David was inspired by the Spirit Matthew 22:43. Peter said "the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David" Acts 1:16. Hebrews 3:7 says "as the Holy Spirit says."

Yes, but Isaiah 23:13 says clearly what John 15:3 testifies, namely that there is much folly in the world as Exodus 12:19 promises. Bible Bible Bible without Christian historical context BIBLE BIBLE BIBLE MONSTER GRRRRRR!
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« Reply #75 on: October 09, 2011, 07:22:05 PM »

If we remain and continue in Jesus' words we will know the truth and that is a promise John 8:31-32, 2 Timothy 1:13, 2 Timothy 3:7. God reveals Himself and information about Himself: Paul's Gospel came through a revelation of Jesus Christ Galatians 1:12. And many passages tell us that God has spoken the words of Scripture. Old Testament quotations are introduced in the New Testament. Jesus said David was inspired by the Spirit Matthew 22:43. Peter said "the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David" Acts 1:16. Hebrews 3:7 says "as the Holy Spirit says."

Yes, but Isaiah 23:13 says clearly what John 15:3 testifies, namely that there is much folly in the world as Exodus 12:19 promises. Bible Bible Bible without Christian historical context BIBLE BIBLE BIBLE MONSTER GRRRRRR!
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« Reply #76 on: October 09, 2011, 07:25:55 PM »

"BIBLE MONSTER"?  Shocked  Smiley
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« Reply #77 on: October 09, 2011, 09:06:26 PM »

If we remain and continue in Jesus' words we will know the truth and that is a promise John 8:31-32, 2 Timothy 1:13, 2 Timothy 3:7. God reveals Himself and information about Himself: Paul's Gospel came through a revelation of Jesus Christ Galatians 1:12. And many passages tell us that God has spoken the words of Scripture. Old Testament quotations are introduced in the New Testament. Jesus said David was inspired by the Spirit Matthew 22:43. Peter said "the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David" Acts 1:16. Hebrews 3:7 says "as the Holy Spirit says."

Yes, but Isaiah 23:13 says clearly what John 15:3 testifies, namely that there is much folly in the world as Exodus 12:19 promises. Bible Bible Bible without Christian historical context BIBLE BIBLE BIBLE MONSTER GRRRRRR!
You are saying what I am thinking much more eloquently than I ever could.

Refraining from being offensive as I possibly can, I think of it as a Bible machine gun. Firing verses at us, at God, with little to no regard to context. Not that the argument is always wrong, but the methodology leaves something to be desired.

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« Reply #78 on: October 09, 2011, 09:09:48 PM »

Another good way to put it.
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« Reply #79 on: October 10, 2011, 12:18:31 AM »

I don't think this is the proper forum to have Protestant-Orthodox debate...
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« Reply #80 on: October 10, 2011, 01:04:04 AM »

Well, if one goes to church on a regular basis, you'll wind up hearing a lot of Scripture over time.

It's not enough.

This is a critiscm I have with the Orthodox Church, and I'd love to be corrected on this, but it seems to me in the Divine Liturgy certain pieces of the Gosepl will be selected for the reading and that's it. No explanation for the text, no sort of interpretation, just read. I don't find that to be fulfilling. It's kind of like a "So What?"
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« Reply #81 on: October 10, 2011, 01:13:25 AM »

Well, if one goes to church on a regular basis, you'll wind up hearing a lot of Scripture over time.

It's not enough.

This is a critiscm I have with the Orthodox Church, and I'd love to be corrected on this, but it seems to me in the Divine Liturgy certain pieces of the Gosepl will be selected for the reading and that's it. No explanation for the text, no sort of interpretation, just read. I don't find that to be fulfilling. It's kind of like a "So What?"

At my parish, the priest gives a homily right after the Gospel reading and the homily is based on it.

I do wish though that more of the liturgy was in English.  It's about 80% Slavonic, and I hate spending the service looking at a translation book.  
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« Reply #82 on: October 10, 2011, 03:37:11 AM »

If we remain and continue in Jesus' words we will know the truth and that is a promise John 8:31-32, 2 Timothy 1:13, 2 Timothy 3:7. God reveals Himself and information about Himself: Paul's Gospel came through a revelation of Jesus Christ Galatians 1:12. And many passages tell us that God has spoken the words of Scripture. Old Testament quotations are introduced in the New Testament. Jesus said David was inspired by the Spirit Matthew 22:43. Peter said "the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David" Acts 1:16. Hebrews 3:7 says "as the Holy Spirit says."

Yes, but Isaiah 23:13 says clearly what John 15:3 testifies, namely that there is much folly in the world as Exodus 12:19 promises. Bible Bible Bible without Christian historical context BIBLE BIBLE BIBLE MONSTER GRRRRRR!

I take it that you don't have an adequate response then.
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« Reply #83 on: October 10, 2011, 03:47:39 AM »

If we remain and continue in Jesus' words we will know the truth and that is a promise John 8:31-32, 2 Timothy 1:13, 2 Timothy 3:7. God reveals Himself and information about Himself: Paul's Gospel came through a revelation of Jesus Christ Galatians 1:12. And many passages tell us that God has spoken the words of Scripture. Old Testament quotations are introduced in the New Testament. Jesus said David was inspired by the Spirit Matthew 22:43. Peter said "the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David" Acts 1:16. Hebrews 3:7 says "as the Holy Spirit says."

Yes, but Isaiah 23:13 says clearly what John 15:3 testifies, namely that there is much folly in the world as Exodus 12:19 promises. Bible Bible Bible without Christian historical context BIBLE BIBLE BIBLE MONSTER GRRRRRR!
You are saying what I am thinking much more eloquently than I ever could.

Refraining from being offensive as I possibly can, I think of it as a Bible machine gun. Firing verses at us, at God, with little to no regard to context. Not that the argument is always wrong, but the methodology leaves something to be desired.



Why would you want to create an "us" and them situation? I am discussing with one person about whether the bible words are living and Holy Spirit inspired. My citations are both in context and relevant. You might be refraining from being offensive <why there's a need to be offensive anyway is beyond me> but you are coming across as hostile.

There are many many references in scripture that show the Holy Spirit has given the words and that the words are inspired of God, too many to post whole chapters and paragraphs one after another. When people aren't short and to the point on forums, it's difficult for others to read a long post. Just because you see the scriptures posted for reference, please don't assume i haven't checked the context of them.

The reason i only quote the verse is because i know i am chatting to experienced Christians on the whole who would know the scriptures and the surrounding context and who don't have to be spoon fed.

I've yet to see a post from you that goes into scripture in any depth so why you would attack mine i have no idea.
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« Reply #84 on: October 10, 2011, 03:52:16 AM »

Well, if one goes to church on a regular basis, you'll wind up hearing a lot of Scripture over time.

It's not enough.

This is a critiscm I have with the Orthodox Church, and I'd love to be corrected on this, but it seems to me in the Divine Liturgy certain pieces of the Gosepl will be selected for the reading and that's it. No explanation for the text, no sort of interpretation, just read. I don't find that to be fulfilling. It's kind of like a "So What?"

Have you visited a DL? Did they not preach a sermon? This is the very small minority of parishes (in the states at least) that do not have a homily on the gospel reading of the day.
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« Reply #85 on: October 10, 2011, 03:53:48 AM »

There's usually a homily everytime I visit, and on occasion not. The sermon doesn't really expound on the Gospel or the epistles of St. Paul.

EDIT: To add, the homilies at my parish are of such high quality, it is unbelievable that I don't have to pay to hear them.

I just want to tell my fellow parishoners who only come for the Eucharist and leave to stay because they are in for a treat.
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« Reply #86 on: October 10, 2011, 03:57:33 AM »

There's usually a homily everytime I visit, and on occasion not. The sermon doesn't really expound on the Gospel or the epistles of St. Paul.

Hmm thats unfortunate. That's what the purpose of the homily is supposed to be.  Undecided
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« Reply #87 on: October 10, 2011, 03:59:11 AM »

I'm glad that you have good homilies otherwise though.
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« Reply #88 on: October 10, 2011, 04:25:19 AM »

Besides, eating and drinking of his flesh and blood, are not the only things related to having everlasting life, obeying, believing and coming to Jesus all have the result of gaining everlasting life.

Not the only things, but still necessary, biblically speaking.
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« Reply #89 on: October 10, 2011, 06:16:19 AM »

I don't think this is the proper forum to have Protestant-Orthodox debate...
Exactly; As originator of this poll and discussion, I would like to be able to discontinue or cap things when I believe they have moved in a direction that I, the originator, did not intend
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