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Author Topic: Things you miss as a former Protestant  (Read 13189 times) Average Rating: 0
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Seraphim98
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« Reply #180 on: January 19, 2012, 12:42:50 AM »

I miss not having to drive two hours every Sunday to find a church to attend. Waiting patiently for the day there is at least one Orthodox congregation in every town or city in MS…at least one in every county, rather than just six in the whole state (with three in the same metro area).

Other than that I miss nothing that I can think of at the moment.
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« Reply #181 on: January 19, 2012, 01:30:42 AM »

I miss not having to drive two hours every Sunday to find a church to attend. Waiting patiently for the day there is at least one Orthodox congregation in every town or city in MS…at least one in every county, rather than just six in the whole state (with three in the same metro area).
This.

...And I add yet another MS poster to my mental file of OC.net Mississippidoxy.
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« Reply #182 on: January 19, 2012, 01:37:25 AM »

Stained Glass Windows.
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« Reply #183 on: January 19, 2012, 01:56:08 AM »

Stained Glass Windows.

My church building still has those.  Tongue
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« Reply #184 on: January 19, 2012, 02:34:37 AM »

I miss being able to eat a cinnamon roll before church on Sunday morning. Actually, I've grown to not miss those bad boys. Eat too many of 'em, and I'd have to hire a tent maker to make my next shirt. Tongue
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« Reply #185 on: January 19, 2012, 02:38:06 AM »

I miss going to church in my shorts...
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« Reply #186 on: January 19, 2012, 03:46:52 AM »

I miss going to church in my shorts...

drinking smoothies and cappucino during church...wearing ball caps...shorts, t shirts...having a hip preacher in jeans who says he hates religion (such a rebel!  Cool )...
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« Reply #187 on: January 19, 2012, 03:54:24 AM »

I miss going to church in my shorts...

drinking smoothies and cappucino during church...wearing ball caps...shorts, t shirts...having a hip preacher in jeans who says he hates religion (such a rebel!  Cool )...

Now just wait a second there buddy! We may have allowed a lot of things, but wearing ball caps just wasn't allowed. You don't wear hats indoors. Men don't cover their heads. That's Bible truth!
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« Reply #188 on: January 19, 2012, 04:47:05 AM »

smoothies and cappucino during church...wearing ball caps...shorts, t shirts...having a hip preacher in jeans who says he hates religion

I don't know what smoothies are, but I wouldn't want to go near a church like that. I think you are drawing a false comparison: the thread's title suggests a comparison between Protestant and Orthodox, but a number of posts seem to be comparing Orthodox churches with ultra-trendy gimmicky ones calling themselves "Protestant" (or whatever), but whose activities seem to me to be based on entertainment rather than the worship and service of God in spirit and in truth. A fairer comparson would be between Orthodox churches and more conservative-style Protestant ones: many of us in the latter feel just as strongly as you do about the sort of church some of you describe, perhaps more strongly, because their name suggests they are similar in ethos to us, and they are not.
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« Reply #189 on: January 19, 2012, 05:55:03 AM »

Now that I am on the outside looking in so to speak,I can't say there is anything I really miss,all that I see now is confusion. Meaning if I were to return to a Protestant's understanding of both the Gospel,and the Church,which "ethos", to use Mr. Youngs terminology,would I embrace?   He doesn't like the comparison made between His "brand" of Christianity,with the likes of those within what would be called the mega-church,or emergent church movement. It is very much like the same comparison of both liberals,and progressives,they have both embraced the very same presuppositions,one group is simply a little further to the left than the other,both wanting to achieve the same results in the end.


P.S. I would also like to add that I do like the idea that Mr. Young is at least starting to think outside the box. Because one cannot begin to see Orthodoxy's understanding of the Christian life,until we look from this perspective.
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« Reply #190 on: January 19, 2012, 11:54:59 AM »

 
Quote
"ethos", to use Mr. Youngs terminology,... Mr. Young is at least starting to think outside the box.

It struck me earlier today, whilst walking among the hills near Llangollen (always a good place for thought), that some of the posts on this thread are not really making a comparison between two religions (Orthodoxy and Protestantism) but rather between two cultures. I think the sort of church to which I belong is culturally similar to yours, as taking a serious, reverent approach to religion, with a view (the Lord helping us) to developing holiness and godliness in life. We aim, I think, to be God-centred. This, I sense, we have in common; it is a shared culture. The churches some posts describe fall into a different and more recent cultural pattern (or 'ethos', to use my earlier word).

Putting it another way, I am quite happy with the notion that the culture or ethos of my religion can be traced to the 18th century revival in England; you would trace yours, of course, to 33AD (as the car sticker says). But the other kind of culture, although expressed in religious terms in some "Protestant churches" which you describe, seems to me to have been a spring in the 1960s, and (like many springs) to have now grown into a torrent.

If what you have rightly rejected in some current streams called Protestant is the serious, reverent approach to religion, with a view (the Lord helping us) to developing holiness and godliness in life and its replacement by a user-friendly form of religious entertainment, then you are really (and rightly, in my view) rejecting a culture - or at least, rejecting it as the rightful determiner or lord of religion. That is far from being the same thing as rejecting Baptist, or Evangelical, or Priotestant doctrine. Whether you are right or wrong to reject that is a quite different discussion.

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« Reply #191 on: January 19, 2012, 12:44:06 PM »

Quote
"ethos", to use Mr. Youngs terminology,... Mr. Young is at least starting to think outside the box.

It struck me earlier today, whilst walking among the hills near Llangollen (always a good place for thought), that some of the posts on this thread are not really making a comparison between two religions (Orthodoxy and Protestantism) but rather between two cultures. I think the sort of church to which I belong is culturally similar to yours, as taking a serious, reverent approach to religion, with a view (the Lord helping us) to developing holiness and godliness in life. We aim, I think, to be God-centred. This, I sense, we have in common; it is a shared culture. The churches some posts describe fall into a different and more recent cultural pattern (or 'ethos', to use my earlier word).

Putting it another way, I am quite happy with the notion that the culture or ethos of my religion can be traced to the 18th century revival in England; you would trace yours, of course, to 33AD (as the car sticker says). But the other kind of culture, although expressed in religious terms in some "Protestant churches" which you describe, seems to me to have been a spring in the 1960s, and (like many springs) to have now grown into a torrent.

If what you have rightly rejected in some current streams called Protestant is the serious, reverent approach to religion, with a view (the Lord helping us) to developing holiness and godliness in life and its replacement by a user-friendly form of religious entertainment, then you are really (and rightly, in my view) rejecting a culture - or at least, rejecting it as the rightful determiner or lord of religion. That is far from being the same thing as rejecting Baptist, or Evangelical, or Priotestant doctrine. Whether you are right or wrong to reject that is a quite different discussion.



I would rightly agree.

When my mother started taking me to her Baptist Church when I was 9, worship on Sunday was a serious event. I don't mean dour, but we were going to Church to learn about Christ and our salvation. Topics to be taken with a level of gravitas. Hymns were sung along with the organ, a sermon was said, prayers were raised, and once a month communion was given. All were done in the spirit of "how can we serve the Lord and be better Christians?"

By the time I had left this same church at 23, it was no longer, "how can we serve the Lord?" but "how can the Lord serve ME?"

Appealing to pop culture and the prosperity Gospel had taken hold, and the entire worship service had more of the feel of a night club rather than a church. The Sunday evening services were specifically targeted at 20-30 year olds, and "bouncers" actually had to be recruited to prevent men from harassing women in the lobby after Church service.

Fog machines, sound systems, and light shows had all replaced the organ hymns of old.

I know that this is not the description of every Baptist Church in America, or the world for that matter. Heck, I have even read of the U2-charist Service in the Episcopal Church, and other "less than reverent" worship services in other faith traditions. (I'm not going to name them, as it will just turn into "who can we pick on" thread.)

What I find disconcerting is this is spreading.

Somehow Christianity seems to be turning from "How can we serve God" to "How can we serve ourselves." It is evident in society and in the church.

Fortunately, this isn't the case in Orthodox worship, but I won't say that our parishes are immune to it entirely. After all, as far as I know all parishes have seen attrition in attendance and giving.

I don't know what the answer is, but I don't like where things are going.
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« Reply #192 on: January 19, 2012, 12:52:05 PM »

interesting discussion.

i hate false solemnity, old english and horrible hymns with an organist who has never heard of the word 'rhythm'.

the answer to this, though is not false happiness, street jargon and songs that sound like they would go down well at a group orgy.
 Wink

it is very important to note that there are many protestants who are committed to worshiping God in spirit and in truth, to learning humility and the way of the cross and the suffering that lies on the path of heavenly joy.

so how interesting it is to see that many of these protestants are finding what they were looking for in orthodoxy...
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« Reply #193 on: January 19, 2012, 01:51:56 PM »

It struck me earlier today, whilst walking among the hills near Llangollen (always a good place for thought), that some of the posts on this thread are not really making a comparison between two religions (Orthodoxy and Protestantism) but rather between two cultures. I think the sort of church to which I belong is culturally similar to yours, as taking a serious, reverent approach to religion, with a view (the Lord helping us) to developing holiness and godliness in life. We aim, I think, to be God-centred. This, I sense, we have in common; it is a shared culture. The churches some posts describe fall into a different and more recent cultural pattern (or 'ethos', to use my earlier word).

Putting it another way, I am quite happy with the notion that the culture or ethos of my religion can be traced to the 18th century revival in England; you would trace yours, of course, to 33AD (as the car sticker says). But the other kind of culture, although expressed in religious terms in some "Protestant churches" which you describe, seems to me to have been a spring in the 1960s, and (like many springs) to have now grown into a torrent.

If what you have rightly rejected in some current streams called Protestant is the serious, reverent approach to religion, with a view (the Lord helping us) to developing holiness and godliness in life and its replacement by a user-friendly form of religious entertainment, then you are really (and rightly, in my view) rejecting a culture - or at least, rejecting it as the rightful determiner or lord of religion. That is far from being the same thing as rejecting Baptist, or Evangelical, or Priotestant doctrine. Whether you are right or wrong to reject that is a quite different discussion.
Of course I have rejected Protestant doctrine, but if it was simply a matter of choosing between the two cultures of worship I could have easily stayed Protestant. There’s even a resurgence of interest in more traditional forms of worship amongst the young Calvinists.

If it was merely a matter of aesthetic appeal, I could have remained a Protestant and done a very nice mix-and-match of what I did and did not like in the world of liturgy… And I don’t condemn those who do, provided their intentions are to worship better. It is one of the appeals of the “local church” ethos of the post-Reformation west.

But who knows? – perhaps at a psychological level it does all boil down to aesthetic sensibilities.

As for me, I will toss my hat with the Orthodox Church because I believe she is the ark of salvation and the fullness of the faith. If that means immersing myself in a liturgy with 1500 years’ worth of cultural accouterments and symbols onto which we have projected meaning, so be it.

(FWIW — I do love the Byzantine and Russian traditions, deeply, even if there are times when I still ask myself what the heck I am doing.)
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« Reply #194 on: January 19, 2012, 01:54:36 PM »

I miss going to church in my shorts...

drinking smoothies and cappucino during church...wearing ball caps...shorts, t shirts...having a hip preacher in jeans who says he hates religion (such a rebel!  Cool )...

Now just wait a second there buddy! We may have allowed a lot of things, but wearing ball caps just wasn't allowed. You don't wear hats indoors. Men don't cover their heads. That's Bible truth!

the things we do these days in the name of fashion....  Roll Eyes I figured if the guys up on stage were wearing caps, i might as well too Tongue
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« Reply #195 on: January 19, 2012, 01:56:32 PM »

smoothies and cappucino during church...wearing ball caps...shorts, t shirts...having a hip preacher in jeans who says he hates religion

I don't know what smoothies are, but I wouldn't want to go near a church like that. I think you are drawing a false comparison: the thread's title suggests a comparison between Protestant and Orthodox, but a number of posts seem to be comparing Orthodox churches with ultra-trendy gimmicky ones calling themselves "Protestant" (or whatever), but whose activities seem to me to be based on entertainment rather than the worship and service of God in spirit and in truth. A fairer comparson would be between Orthodox churches and more conservative-style Protestant ones: many of us in the latter feel just as strongly as you do about the sort of church some of you describe, perhaps more strongly, because their name suggests they are similar in ethos to us, and they are not.

there will be plenty more churches like this in the future, mark my words...thats the thing about the protestant label, it can come in so many different varieties... (much like smoothies Wink )
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« Reply #196 on: January 19, 2012, 02:00:31 PM »

smoothies and cappucino during church...wearing ball caps...shorts, t shirts...having a hip preacher in jeans who says he hates religion

I don't know what smoothies are, but I wouldn't want to go near a church like that. I think you are drawing a false comparison: the thread's title suggests a comparison between Protestant and Orthodox, but a number of posts seem to be comparing Orthodox churches with ultra-trendy gimmicky ones calling themselves "Protestant" (or whatever), but whose activities seem to me to be based on entertainment rather than the worship and service of God in spirit and in truth. A fairer comparson would be between Orthodox churches and more conservative-style Protestant ones: many of us in the latter feel just as strongly as you do about the sort of church some of you describe, perhaps more strongly, because their name suggests they are similar in ethos to us, and they are not.

there will be plenty more churches like this in the future, mark my words...thats the thing about the protestant label, it can come in so many different varieties... (much like smoothies Wink )
Bucketload of them in my town. They show up, then close down in about 2-4 years because folks arent "fulfilled" then more open up, which close down in 2-4 years.....rinse and repeat.

PP
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« Reply #197 on: January 19, 2012, 02:02:46 PM »

smoothies and cappucino during church...wearing ball caps...shorts, t shirts...having a hip preacher in jeans who says he hates religion

I don't know what smoothies are, but I wouldn't want to go near a church like that. I think you are drawing a false comparison: the thread's title suggests a comparison between Protestant and Orthodox, but a number of posts seem to be comparing Orthodox churches with ultra-trendy gimmicky ones calling themselves "Protestant" (or whatever), but whose activities seem to me to be based on entertainment rather than the worship and service of God in spirit and in truth. A fairer comparson would be between Orthodox churches and more conservative-style Protestant ones: many of us in the latter feel just as strongly as you do about the sort of church some of you describe, perhaps more strongly, because their name suggests they are similar in ethos to us, and they are not.

there will be plenty more churches like this in the future, mark my words...thats the thing about the protestant label, it can come in so many different varieties... (much like smoothies Wink )
Bucketload of them in my town. They show up, then close down in about 2-4 years because folks arent "fulfilled" then more open up, which close down in 2-4 years.....rinse and repeat.

PP

You could substitute alot of different words for "fulfilled". My old pastor (of the church i am referring to above) liked to use the term "engaging" i.e., "we're not entertaining, we're just engaging".
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« Reply #198 on: January 19, 2012, 02:06:31 PM »

smoothies and cappucino during church...wearing ball caps...shorts, t shirts...having a hip preacher in jeans who says he hates religion

I don't know what smoothies are, but I wouldn't want to go near a church like that. I think you are drawing a false comparison: the thread's title suggests a comparison between Protestant and Orthodox, but a number of posts seem to be comparing Orthodox churches with ultra-trendy gimmicky ones calling themselves "Protestant" (or whatever), but whose activities seem to me to be based on entertainment rather than the worship and service of God in spirit and in truth. A fairer comparson would be between Orthodox churches and more conservative-style Protestant ones: many of us in the latter feel just as strongly as you do about the sort of church some of you describe, perhaps more strongly, because their name suggests they are similar in ethos to us, and they are not.

there will be plenty more churches like this in the future, mark my words...thats the thing about the protestant label, it can come in so many different varieties... (much like smoothies Wink )
Bucketload of them in my town. They show up, then close down in about 2-4 years because folks arent "fulfilled" then more open up, which close down in 2-4 years.....rinse and repeat.

PP

You could substitute alot of different words for "fulfilled". My old pastor (of the church i am referring to above) liked to use the term "engaging" i.e., "we're not entertaining, we're just engaging".
I've heard that one too...also, "original", "modern", "vibrant", "untraditional"....pheh...nonsense.

PP
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« Reply #199 on: January 19, 2012, 02:11:18 PM »

I don't know what smoothies are,

Well, just as you are a subject of Her Majesty, the Queen, here in America, we too have our own monarch:

Smoothie King!  laugh laugh laugh

Just to inform you, a smoothie is usually a combination of ice, yogurt, fruit, and fruit juice that have been mixed together in a blender until "smooth", thus the term "smoothie." Smiley

They can be quite healthy, but America wouldn't be America if we left things well enough alone, so we add all kinds of fattening stuff to them as well! Smiley


Great as a treat, lousy for Church! Smiley
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« Reply #200 on: January 19, 2012, 02:27:17 PM »

Some excellent posts, and I'll get back to them. (Just cooking my part of the dinner now - wife will do the meat!) Briefly, here is another way of putting what I'm trying to say. I have had little opportunity to have conversation with real Orthodox Christians, but one bishop and one missionary, separately, granted me some of their time, and I was hardly aware of doing anything other than talking with a fellow Christian. There seemed to be a oneness of heart. I reckon, if we spent more time together, the sense of oneness would develop, though of course differences would also emerge. I also had coffee a couple of times with a priest, but conversation never got very deep, perhaps because of the language barrier (my fault, not his: I'm not good at relaxing and talking heart-to-heart with almost-strangers in Albanian.)

But when I come across the kind of "Protestant" described in some posts on this thread, we might as well be from different planets: there is very little sense of oneness, and much of alienation, certainly on my part and probably on theirs too.

More later, or tomorrow...
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« Reply #201 on: January 19, 2012, 03:26:56 PM »

But I would submit that the stuff that goes on under the name of Christianity today is the "natural" outcome of the "every man his own Pope" Protestant misunderstanding of sola scriptura.
If it's only a matter of worship styles or culture, then it doesn't matter if we drink smoothies whilst listening to "Christian rock" bands, or if we are sitting in silence like the Friends. One is no better or worse than any other. And our preferences for solemn or serious worshp is just that - a personal preference. It has no more meaning than that.
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« Reply #202 on: January 19, 2012, 04:56:55 PM »

When my mother started taking me to her Baptist Church when I was 9, worship on Sunday was a serious event... to learn about Christ and our salvation. Topics to be taken with a level of gravitas. Hymns were sung along with the organ, a sermon was said, prayers were raised, and once a month communion was given. All were done in the spirit of "how can we serve the Lord and be better Christians?"

Amen to all of that! It sounds quite like our Baptist church here in Wrexham. It is becoming increasingly difficult to find a good church in Britain, with maybe 2% of the population attending church. You write  that once a month communion was given, and - probably partly via the influence of you Orthodox people - I value those times (twice a month at our church) - and when our pastor is away it sometimes falls to me to 'preside', and I think we come with reverence, consciousness of sinfulness, faith and gratitude, to the Table, where our Lord's death for us is remembered.

We are not, as you say, dour in our worship. Last Sunday evening, when I did 'preside' at the Lord's Table, I chose The old rugged Cross as the closing hymn, and they seemed to "raise the roof" - ardent singing from the heart in love of what was wrought at Calvary!

Quote
it was no longer, "how can we serve the Lord?" but "how can the Lord serve ME?"

Very well expressed. But that is neither Orthodoxy nor Protestantism, is it?

Quote
What I find disconcerting is this is spreading.

Quite so! And maybe - just possibly - people like me, who remain persuaded of the Evangelical faith, are more disconcerted than even yourgoodself, for it is taking palce within our ranks, and (I hope) not yours.

Quote
I don't know what the answer is, but I don't like where things are going.

Hmmm... earnest prayer for the good state of the Lord's Church, and f aithfulness in our own contribution and example. Not easy, of course.
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« Reply #203 on: January 19, 2012, 05:10:44 PM »

Right! Well, perhaps I'll just stick to attempting to take daily exercise, walk in the mountains a couple of times a month or more, and eat and drink healthily. But the

combination of ice, yogurt, fruit,

sounds similar to lassi, which I enjoy in Indian restaurants, though (as you say)...

Quote
lousy for Church!

But I'm wandering off the point... Smiley
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« Reply #204 on: January 19, 2012, 07:56:50 PM »

smoothies and cappucino during church...wearing ball caps...shorts, t shirts...having a hip preacher in jeans who says he hates religion

I don't know what smoothies are, but I wouldn't want to go near a church like that. I think you are drawing a false comparison: the thread's title suggests a comparison between Protestant and Orthodox, but a number of posts seem to be comparing Orthodox churches with ultra-trendy gimmicky ones calling themselves "Protestant" (or whatever), but whose activities seem to me to be based on entertainment rather than the worship and service of God in spirit and in truth. A fairer comparson would be between Orthodox churches and more conservative-style Protestant ones: many of us in the latter feel just as strongly as you do about the sort of church some of you describe, perhaps more strongly, because their name suggests they are similar in ethos to us, and they are not.

there will be plenty more churches like this in the future, mark my words...thats the thing about the protestant label, it can come in so many different varieties... (much like smoothies Wink )
Bucketload of them in my town. They show up, then close down in about 2-4 years because folks arent "fulfilled" then more open up, which close down in 2-4 years.....rinse and repeat.

PP

You could substitute alot of different words for "fulfilled". My old pastor (of the church i am referring to above) liked to use the term "engaging" i.e., "we're not entertaining, we're just engaging".

Weeil, maybe if The Church had kept Rome in line we wouldn't have all this rinse-and-repeat  Wink
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« Reply #205 on: January 19, 2012, 11:41:07 PM »

smoothies and cappucino during church...wearing ball caps...shorts, t shirts...having a hip preacher in jeans who says he hates religion

I don't know what smoothies are, but I wouldn't want to go near a church like that. I think you are drawing a false comparison: the thread's title suggests a comparison between Protestant and Orthodox, but a number of posts seem to be comparing Orthodox churches with ultra-trendy gimmicky ones calling themselves "Protestant" (or whatever), but whose activities seem to me to be based on entertainment rather than the worship and service of God in spirit and in truth. A fairer comparson would be between Orthodox churches and more conservative-style Protestant ones: many of us in the latter feel just as strongly as you do about the sort of church some of you describe, perhaps more strongly, because their name suggests they are similar in ethos to us, and they are not.

there will be plenty more churches like this in the future, mark my words...thats the thing about the protestant label, it can come in so many different varieties... (much like smoothies Wink )
Bucketload of them in my town. They show up, then close down in about 2-4 years because folks arent "fulfilled" then more open up, which close down in 2-4 years.....rinse and repeat.

PP

You could substitute alot of different words for "fulfilled". My old pastor (of the church i am referring to above) liked to use the term "engaging" i.e., "we're not entertaining, we're just engaging".

Weeil, maybe if The Church had kept Rome in line we wouldn't have all this rinse-and-repeat  Wink
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« Reply #206 on: January 19, 2012, 11:42:41 PM »

I miss being able to eat a cinnamon roll before church on Sunday morning. Actually, I've grown to not miss those bad boys. Eat too many of 'em, and I'd have to hire a tent maker to make my next shirt. Tongue
It was a family tradition in my household to make Pillsbury Cinnamon Rolls every Sunday Morning.

That was the best ever.
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« Reply #207 on: January 20, 2012, 01:38:42 PM »

Very well expressed. But that is neither Orthodoxy nor Protestantism, is it?

Here I would disagree. While ultimately every believer has to decide for themselves to serve God and not themselves, the doctrine of the Orthodox Church teaches us that we are to have a servant's heart, and that we are to be humble. One of the Psalms included in our Daily prayers is Psalm 50 (Psalm 51 in your canon):

Psalm 51

New King James Version (NKJV)

Psalm 51
To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David when Nathan the prophet went to him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba.

 1 Have mercy upon me, O God,
         According to Your lovingkindness;
         According to the multitude of Your tender mercies,
         Blot out my transgressions.
 2 Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity,
         And cleanse me from my sin.
         
 3 For I acknowledge my transgressions,
         And my sin is always before me.
 4 Against You, You only, have I sinned,
         And done this evil in Your sight—
         That You may be found just when You speak,[a]
         And blameless when You judge.
         
 5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
         And in sin my mother conceived me.
 6 Behold, You desire truth in the inward parts,
         And in the hidden part You will make me to know wisdom.
         
 7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;
         Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
 8 Make me hear joy and gladness,
         That the bones You have broken may rejoice.
 9 Hide Your face from my sins,
         And blot out all my iniquities.
         
 10 Create in me a clean heart, O God,
         And renew a steadfast spirit within me.
 11 Do not cast me away from Your presence,
         And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
         
 12 Restore to me the joy of Your salvation,
         And uphold me by Your generous Spirit.
 13 Then I will teach transgressors Your ways,
         And sinners shall be converted to You.
         
 14 Deliver me from the guilt of bloodshed, O God,
         The God of my salvation,
         And my tongue shall sing aloud of Your righteousness.
 15 O Lord, open my lips,
         And my mouth shall show forth Your praise.
 16 For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it;
         You do not delight in burnt offering.
 17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
         A broken and a contrite heart—
         These, O God, You will not despise.
         
 18 Do good in Your good pleasure to Zion;
         Build the walls of Jerusalem.
 19 Then You shall be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness,
         With burnt offering and whole burnt offering;
         Then they shall offer bulls on Your altar.

During the Thursday services of Holy Week at many of the Orthodox Cathedrals, there is a foot washing ceremony where the Bishop will wash the feet of the priests.

Quite often in many of our hymns and prayers, the theme  of humbleness runs through. During the weeks of Great Lent, we learn about the Prodigal Son, the Publican and the Pharisee, the ten virgins... all of these speak to us having a servants heart, ready and willing to serve God.

I don't hear this message coming from many of the main stream Protestant speakers of today. They speak of the Prosperity Gospel, having an abundant life, and living a life of greatness.

Where are the themes of suffering? Where are the themes of humbleness? Where are the themes of sin?

I will not say that no Protestant ministers are preaching on these topics; but this is not what the mega churches are putting out.

I believe part of the reason the congregations at these mega churches are so big is because themes like humbleness, servitude, and sin are not discussed. People want to hear about having an abundant life filled with money and fame; they don't want to hear about having to repent.

Quote
Hmmm... earnest prayer for the good state of the Lord's Church, and f aithfulness in our own contribution and example. Not easy, of course.

Amen!
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« Reply #208 on: January 20, 2012, 02:30:20 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Simply put, I miss nothing.  Everything I ever experienced in Protestant Christianity exists and is in fact better elaborated by Grace within the Church.  We in Orthodox lack nothing the Protestants have, the question then to ask is what do we have that they are lacking that we can share?





stay blessed,
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« Reply #209 on: January 20, 2012, 02:56:40 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Simply put, I miss nothing.  Everything I ever experienced in Protestant Christianity exists and is in fact better elaborated by Grace within the Church.  We in Orthodox lack nothing the Protestants have, the question then to ask is what do we have that they are lacking that we can share?





stay blessed,
habte selassie
Excellent point

PP
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« Reply #210 on: January 20, 2012, 06:13:56 PM »

Where are the themes of suffering? Where are the themes of humbleness? Where are the themes of sin?

... humbleness, servitude, and sin are not discussed. People want to hear about having an abundant life filled with money and fame

I have never been to a megachurch, though I have heard of them. I am not aware of any within a 50-mile radius of here, and beyond that, who knows? But I have no reason to express any disagreement with what I quote from you here. What a travesty of almost 2000 years of Christian spirituality!
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« Reply #211 on: January 20, 2012, 06:32:06 PM »

Where are the themes of suffering? Where are the themes of humbleness? Where are the themes of sin?

... humbleness, servitude, and sin are not discussed. People want to hear about having an abundant life filled with money and fame

I have never been to a megachurch, though I have heard of them. I am not aware of any within a 50-mile radius of here, and beyond that, who knows? But I have no reason to express any disagreement with what I quote from you here. What a travesty of almost 2000 years of Christian spirituality!


Consider yourself blessed that you haven't been to one! I do hope this is one American idea that will stay on this side of the pond!! Lol
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« Reply #212 on: January 20, 2012, 06:41:22 PM »

To answer the question in the subject heading: a longer homily.  In the 8 years that I've been Orthodox, I've had the opportunity to visit several churches (Lutheran-Missouri Synod, Baptist, and Pentecostal-Word of Faith).  While these good and kind people are sincere, there is such a huge chasm between Protestantism and Orthodoxy.  Sitting through those services felt as though I were reading a J.K. Rowling book after having read Fyodor Dostoevsky.  Having said that, I do miss a longer sermon such as what I was used to growing up Assemblies of God.  
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« Reply #213 on: January 20, 2012, 06:48:19 PM »

come over to our church, our bishop preaches for at least 30 mins!
 Smiley
of course, he has other churches to attend as well, so when he is not there, the liturgy is 'only' 2 hours long, usually including a shorter talk.
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« Reply #214 on: January 20, 2012, 07:58:16 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Simply put, I miss nothing.  Everything I ever experienced in Protestant Christianity exists and is in fact better elaborated by Grace within the Church.  We in Orthodox lack nothing the Protestants have, the question then to ask is what do we have that they are lacking that we can share?
Except cinnamon rolls before liturgy.
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« Reply #215 on: January 20, 2012, 08:11:02 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Simply put, I miss nothing.  Everything I ever experienced in Protestant Christianity exists and is in fact better elaborated by Grace within the Church.  We in Orthodox lack nothing the Protestants have, the question then to ask is what do we have that they are lacking that we can share?
Except cinnamon rolls before liturgy.
sigh
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« Reply #216 on: January 21, 2012, 10:42:15 AM »

Quote
author=HandmaidenofGod link=topic=40053.msg697042#msg697042
Consider yourself blessed that you haven't been to one!

I do.

Quote
I do hope this is one American idea that will stay on this side of the pond!

Sadly it is too late for that hope. I have heard of a megachurch in London (happily some five hours away) and possibly another in Bristol; I dare say they have sprung up elsewhere too. My son (who has never been baptised  Sad) went to a Pentecostal church maybe three years ago with a short-lived girlfriend, and his comment was that it was like a bad rock concert. (He spoke as one who enjoys modern music.) But it was not what one would call mega.
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« Reply #217 on: January 21, 2012, 12:40:11 PM »

My son (who has never been baptised  Sad) went to a Pentecostal church maybe three years ago with a short-lived girlfriend, and his comment was that it was like a bad rock concert. (He spoke as one who enjoys modern music.) But it was not what one would call mega.
It sounds like a "wannabe-megachurch". Lots of those here. Pretty much the same thing, just smaller in numbers. They tend to look to the megachurches and their leaders for inspiration.
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« Reply #218 on: January 21, 2012, 12:51:46 PM »

I miss my ministerial credential and the ability to conduct weddings. Those were always a fun and joyous time. I think I will miss preaching and teaching as well, though I only did that on a fill in basis, I have always enjoyed passing on ideas and information. For now though I am content to learn from others and to be the babe again.

For my part I do miss the "rock" music style praise, and playing my bass guitar. But I had stopped that , even before I began looking at Orthodoxy, when I stepped back from ministry to reexamine myself. I never was attracted by liturgy, and in fact leaving liturgy was the reason I left the church I grew up in, well that and the search for single Christian women. Grin Fortunately the latter has not been an issue for some time.  Smiley But my commitment to Orthodoxy is not about finding something that is pleasing to me. Nicely enough I do like the Orthodox liturgy but still it's not about me.

As to mega-churches, I got in on the edge of what I think may have been a prototype for the mega-church movement before it took off. If that is the case I would suggest that the idea of such Churches may not be as shallow as appears from the outside but that the depth of the church is not to be found in the main Sunday morning service. That service would be the "front" designed to draw in people who are not already committed to the cause. The depth then, in service and teaching, would come in other forms, programs for charity work etc., classes for teaching, small groups for prayer and developing of relationships between believers. This is a very different concept of church were the main service is not central to the spiritual development of the believer. But that does not mean a desire or plan for spiritual growth is absent, just that it's done in a different way.
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« Reply #219 on: January 21, 2012, 01:23:42 PM »

I would suggest that the idea of such Churches may not be as shallow as appears from the outside but that the depth of the church is not to be found in the main Sunday morning service. That service would be the "front" designed to draw in people who are not already committed to the cause. The depth then, in service and teaching, would come in other forms, programs for charity work etc., classes for teaching, small groups for prayer and developing of relationships between believers. This is a very different concept of church were the main service is not central to the spiritual development of the believer. But that does not mean a desire or plan for spiritual growth is absent, just that it's done in a different way.

I'd agree.
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« Reply #220 on: January 21, 2012, 01:37:51 PM »

Quote
It sounds like a "wannabe-megachurch". Lots of those here. Pretty much the same thing, just smaller in numbers. They tend to look to the megachurches and their leaders for inspiration.

I believe you are absolutely right.

Interestingly, the largest church I have attended in recent years is the Evangelical church in Korça, Albania, with perhaps 300 in attendance. I went to the Orthodox at 8.30 and crossed the road to the Evangelical at 10.30. The difference in style was immense. Yet happily, there is a good deal of mutual tolerance and even respect between the two.
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« Reply #221 on: January 21, 2012, 01:41:35 PM »

I would suggest that the idea of such Churches may not be as shallow as appears from the outside but that the depth of the church is not to be found in the main Sunday morning service. That service would be the "front" designed to draw in people who are not already committed to the cause. The depth then, in service and teaching, would come in other forms, programs for charity work etc., classes for teaching, small groups for prayer and developing of relationships between believers. This is a very different concept of church were the main service is not central to the spiritual development of the believer. But that does not mean a desire or plan for spiritual growth is absent, just that it's done in a different way.

I'd agree.

I would tend to add my tentative agreement as well, which is why I did not include, in my quotation from, and response to, an earlier post, the notion that they do not wish to repent. I do not know their hearts. I feel sure that that shape of religion is seriously warped, and that is the responsibiltiy of the leaders and policy-makers: but I dare say there are many souls who are sincerely seeking for God and hoping to find him in such churches.
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« Reply #222 on: January 21, 2012, 02:28:46 PM »

I would suggest that the idea of such Churches may not be as shallow as appears from the outside but that the depth of the church is not to be found in the main Sunday morning service. That service would be the "front" designed to draw in people who are not already committed to the cause. The depth then, in service and teaching, would come in other forms, programs for charity work etc., classes for teaching, small groups for prayer and developing of relationships between believers. This is a very different concept of church were the main service is not central to the spiritual development of the believer. But that does not mean a desire or plan for spiritual growth is absent, just that it's done in a different way.

I'd agree.

I would tend to add my tentative agreement as well, which is why I did not include, in my quotation from, and response to, an earlier post, the notion that they do not wish to repent. I do not know their hearts. I feel sure that that shape of religion is seriously warped, and that is the responsibiltiy of the leaders and policy-makers: but I dare say there are many souls who are sincerely seeking for God and hoping to find him in such churches.

You feel sure it's seriously warped?

Remind me again how many of this style of church you've attended that inform your feelings?
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« Reply #223 on: January 21, 2012, 02:46:11 PM »

I miss there being people my own age at church -- in regards to the "youth groups" which a lot of Evangelical churches are so big on.  Now there may be only 1 or 2 other people at my church that are anywhere near my age, but it's okay I guess.  Orthodoxy deepens your understanding of Christianity a great deal, and a lot of things which I didn't "get" at the Baptist and Presbyterian churches.. I finally understand those things now. 
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« Reply #224 on: January 21, 2012, 04:05:37 PM »

You feel sure it's seriously warped?

Remind me again how many of this style of church you've attended that inform your feelings?

Ah! You've caught me out. I've never been. I've seen a video about the "Toronto Blessing" with clips of one of more actual services, and I've been a member of a Christian hiking club with a wide range of Christians (Catholic to Exclusive Brethren), and of course I've heard the usual anecdotes, and am aware of some of the latest literature. I was among Pentecostals and Charismatics from 1966 to ca 1988 in various towns - with many of whom I had edifying fellowship in the Lord, and nothing weird. I confess it is all this that I am forming my opinion by, not by personally attending such events.
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