Boy (11 yrs) in sex change. Lesbian parents fix his 'confusion'.

[Aindriú]

The little boy who started a sex change aged eight because he (and his lesbian parents) knew he always wanted to be a girl.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2043345/The-California-boy-11-undergoing-hormone-blocking-treatment.html

The lesbian parents of an 11-year-old boy who is undergoing the process of becoming a girl last night defended the decision, claiming it was better for a child to have a sex change when young.

Thomas Lobel, who now calls himself Tammy, is undergoing controversial hormone blocking treatment in Berkeley, California to stop him going through puberty as a boy.

But Pauline Moreno and Debra Lobel warn that children with gender identity disorder forced to postpone transitioning could face a higher risk of suicide.

Sigh...

[bogdan]

But at least (s)he as two parents, right? That's the important thing.

Sick, sick, sick.

[Asteriktos]

But at least (s)he as two parents, right? That's the important thing.

Actually, so say some...

[Aristobolus]

Lord have mercy!  This is child abuse at its worst.

[Cognomen]

The little boy who started a sex change aged eight because he (and his lesbian parents) knew he always wanted to be a girl.

I think I wanted to be a ninja at age eight.

[Pikhristos Aftonf]

OF COURSE, he would want to be a girl, he has two mummies, no male input, wants to conform to the household. thats why the traditional nuclear family model is best, it curbs instances such as these, where people try to justify having a social/ psychological problem through science and reasoning. there are feminine men and masculine women, that does not mean they were born into the wrong body. i actually can't comprehend the way some of these people speak and think 

[Riddikulus]

^He has an older brother.

[Pikhristos Aftonf]

excuse my o'hasty conclusion :p
i would have said a brother is not exactly the best role model, but then i noticed the large age discrepancy.
anyway i am eager to learn opinions of the matter.
do you believe that its medical and not psychological?
 

[Riddikulus]

^I'm not privy to the facts as to whether it's medical or psychological. I think it's a shame, either way, for someone to go through this. I do wonder if it's a bit young to make such a decision, but can understand his parent's concerns regarding self harm and suicide.

 

[akimori makoto]

do you believe that its medical and not psychological?

The difference being, in your view?

[Pikhristos Aftonf]

same  as the difference between genetic and social homosexuality. if it is genetic, then they will turn out to be homosexual given the right stimulus. if its socially induced, then they will turn to homosexuality due to societal pushes and pressures.
if transexualism is psychological and societal, i would go on a rant and bash the parents position and anyone who agrees to gender reassignment operations. not that i wouldn't go on that rant anyway

[JamesRottnek]

OF COURSE, he would want to be a girl, he has two mummies, no male input, wants to conform to the household. thats why the traditional nuclear family model is best, it curbs instances such as these, where people try to justify having a social/ psychological problem through science and reasoning. there are feminine men and masculine women, that does not mean they were born into the wrong body. i actually can't comprehend the way some of these people speak and think 

The so-called "nuclear family" was not even a concept until the seventeenth century.  It was not anything like prominent, until the twentieth century.  The real tradition is what is now referred to as an "extended family" with cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc.  That is how family is supposed to be - not cut off from one another, not shuttered up four people to a house. 

[mabsoota]

medically speaking, there are very very few (just a handful in the world) cases where it is really difficult to determine a child's gender because of genetic problems.
most people who change gender (or want to) have emotional problems, and having parents who are disappointed about the child's gender (eg. if they always wanted a girl and got a boy) is a very big factor for most.
but if someone has already changed gender, God accepts them as they are and then goes from there.

i am a woman, but have quite a lot of 'masculine' thought patterns. nearly all of my work colleagues are men, and in big groups, i'm the one who picks up the big spider and puts it out. i love reading maps, i hate shopping (unless it's for food), and quite like cars (useful at work). but i don't wear a shirt and tie and go bodybuilding to look like a man, coz God created me as a woman, and my job is to accept this.
i have some 'female' characteristics as well, eg. i love to talk 
so we need to accept God's will, he does not make mistakes with our gender, where we are born, or other aspects of our life.
wherever we are, God can take us from there, change our lives and fill us with His light.
may He enlighten us all and those around us.
 

[Schultz]

I am entirely shocked that the medical community has not ostracized the doctor that is helping these people along.  Such a process at so young an age simply cannot be physically good no matter how many drugs are pumped (itself a problem, I would think) into this boy's body, let alone psychologically.

I know a few post-op transsexuals and have always felt that what they've done to their body is their business; they were adults when they made their decision to do what they did.  I don't like it and think it's wrong, but, like I said, they were adults and went through the whole psychological process before the physical one.

It does not seem that this boy has the ability to fully understand what is happening, let alone that the medical community is still learning about the process of puberty.  

[augustin717]

wait, now they'll have to turn him into a lesbian, too.

[genesisone]

wait, now they'll have to turn him into a lesbian, too.

Don't laugh. A few years ago I taught twin brothers (aged about 10 or 11 at the time) who had two moms because their biological father was undergoing a sex change. Once the father became "Jessica", then she? got a new partner - another woman!

BTW, when they lived with their biological mother and her second husband, the boys were really unhappy and not well adjusted socially. At some point "Jessica" got custody of them and within weeks the boys were normal 11 year old boys. Wish I could explain. They eventually moved out of the school district and I have no idea what has become of them.

[Alpo]

I can understand a fuss over sex change but his parents being lesbians has nothing to do with this. It's as relevants as blonde hair or addiction to caffeine.

[Aindriú]

I can understand a fuss over sex change but his parents being lesbians has nothing to do with this. It's as relevants as blonde hair or addiction to caffeine.

Bull.

His parents being lesbians sets the 'nurture' stage, as well as promote certain liberal 'values' in his life.

[Alpo]

...as well as promote certain liberal 'values' in his life.

Correct. It's about liberal values, not sexual orientation.

[Aindriú]

...as well as promote certain liberal 'values' in his life.

Correct. It's about liberal values, not sexual orientation.

I reject that sexual orientation is genetic. It's due to a combination of societal pressure, personal fetish, and personal choice.

[Alpo]

...as well as promote certain liberal 'values' in his life.

Correct. It's about liberal values, not sexual orientation.

I reject that sexual orientation is genetic. It's due to a combination of societal pressure, personal fetish, and personal choice.

 Now you lost me. What this has to do with my comment?

[Wyatt]

*sigh* Two words: Daily Mail 

[biro]

...as well as promote certain liberal 'values' in his life.

Correct. It's about liberal values, not sexual orientation.

I reject that sexual orientation is genetic. It's due to a combination of societal pressure, personal fetish, and personal choice.

The decision as to whether to engage in sex acts may be a choice, but do you think you wouldn't be heterosexual if you didn't know any better? 

[Aindriú]

...as well as promote certain liberal 'values' in his life.

Correct. It's about liberal values, not sexual orientation.

I reject that sexual orientation is genetic. It's due to a combination of societal pressure, personal fetish, and personal choice.

 Now you lost me. What this has to do with my comment?

Because I don't necessarily separate 'liberal values' from 'sexual orientation'. In that sexual orientation, derived from social nature, will influence values.

In less words, they are in the same boat, to me.

[Aindriú]

...as well as promote certain liberal 'values' in his life.

Correct. It's about liberal values, not sexual orientation.

I reject that sexual orientation is genetic. It's due to a combination of societal pressure, personal fetish, and personal choice.

The decision as to whether to engage in sex acts may be a choice, but do you think you wouldn't be heterosexual if you didn't know any better? 

Can you rephrase that?

[Shanghaiski]

...as well as promote certain liberal 'values' in his life.

Correct. It's about liberal values, not sexual orientation.

I reject that sexual orientation is genetic. It's due to a combination of societal pressure, personal fetish, and personal choice.

The decision as to whether to engage in sex acts may be a choice, but do you think you wouldn't be heterosexual if you didn't know any better? 

Can you rephrase that?

Biro wants to know if you chose to be heterosexual. I would say no.

I dislike the entire language of "sexual orientation," not for the different orientations involved therein, but for the big post-Freudian deal it makes over sexuality in the first place. I think categorizing people by sexuality cheapens them.

[Aindriú]

...as well as promote certain liberal 'values' in his life.

Correct. It's about liberal values, not sexual orientation.

I reject that sexual orientation is genetic. It's due to a combination of societal pressure, personal fetish, and personal choice.

The decision as to whether to engage in sex acts may be a choice, but do you think you wouldn't be heterosexual if you didn't know any better? 

Can you rephrase that?

Biro wants to know if you chose to be heterosexual. I would say no.

I dislike the entire language of "sexual orientation," not for the different orientations involved therein, but for the big post-Freudian deal it makes over sexuality in the first place. I think categorizing people by sexuality cheapens them.

Ah, I see.

Of course not, I'm straight because that's how humans are constructed. Heterosexuality isn't a deviation from the norm. Homosexuality, on the other hand, is.

[Asteriktos]

Ah, I see.

Of course not, I'm straight because that's how humans are constructed.

   Just keep telling yourself that.

[Aindriú]

Ah, I see.

Of course not, I'm straight because that's how humans are constructed.

   Just keep telling yourself that.

 

[Shanghaiski]

...as well as promote certain liberal 'values' in his life.

Correct. It's about liberal values, not sexual orientation.

I reject that sexual orientation is genetic. It's due to a combination of societal pressure, personal fetish, and personal choice.

The decision as to whether to engage in sex acts may be a choice, but do you think you wouldn't be heterosexual if you didn't know any better? 

Can you rephrase that?

Biro wants to know if you chose to be heterosexual. I would say no.

I dislike the entire language of "sexual orientation," not for the different orientations involved therein, but for the big post-Freudian deal it makes over sexuality in the first place. I think categorizing people by sexuality cheapens them.

Ah, I see.

Of course not, I'm straight because that's how humans are constructed. Heterosexuality isn't a deviation from the norm. Homosexuality, on the other hand, is.

Okay. It would help matters of discussion if you would condescend to define what it is, exactly, that you are talking about. Hetereo- and homosexuality are not terms in Orthodox vocabulary. From an Orthodox perspective, there is not orientation, but rather actions. Actions are sins. Temptations are not sins if they are not acted upon, but rather rejected or fought against. Thus an "ality" is meaningless when we speak of moral deviance. The norm, from the position of the Orthodox Church, is sobriety, chastity, and purity in all things dealing with sexuality. There is no blessing for anything outside marriage and outside actual sexual intercourse within marriage (and one could add more caveats here of further restrictions, but that can of worms it outside this discussion). A person society unfortunately defines as a "homosexual" may be living a morally upright life, not engaging in sinful activities, fighting temptations with the strength of a martyr. This is not deviance, but abiding by Orthodox ascetic morality and doing so in a way that surpasses many.

There are things, like temptations, which people do not choose. They have them because this is a fallen world. So, it's also irrelevant whether something is genetic or not. Many diseases are genetic. Psychosis is genetic, but only a small percentage of those with the gene for psychosis act out on it in violent, sinful ways. There's no gene that suppresses free will. Each person is given crosses to bear. He is not judged on the crosses he carries (though he may bear some responsibility for creating some of those crosses), but on how he carries them.

[Aindriú]

...as well as promote certain liberal 'values' in his life.

Correct. It's about liberal values, not sexual orientation.

I reject that sexual orientation is genetic. It's due to a combination of societal pressure, personal fetish, and personal choice.

The decision as to whether to engage in sex acts may be a choice, but do you think you wouldn't be heterosexual if you didn't know any better? 

Can you rephrase that?

Biro wants to know if you chose to be heterosexual. I would say no.

I dislike the entire language of "sexual orientation," not for the different orientations involved therein, but for the big post-Freudian deal it makes over sexuality in the first place. I think categorizing people by sexuality cheapens them.

Ah, I see.

Of course not, I'm straight because that's how humans are constructed. Heterosexuality isn't a deviation from the norm. Homosexuality, on the other hand, is.

Okay. It would help matters of discussion if you would condescend to define what it is, exactly, that you are talking about. Hetereo- and homosexuality are not terms in Orthodox vocabulary. From an Orthodox perspective, there is not orientation, but rather actions. Actions are sins. Temptations are not sins if they are not acted upon, but rather rejected or fought against. Thus an "ality" is meaningless when we speak of moral deviance. The norm, from the position of the Orthodox Church, is sobriety, chastity, and purity in all things dealing with sexuality. There is no blessing for anything outside marriage and outside actual sexual intercourse within marriage (and one could add more caveats here of further restrictions, but that can of worms it outside this discussion). A person society unfortunately defines as a "homosexual" may be living a morally upright life, not engaging in sinful activities, fighting temptations with the strength of a martyr. This is not deviance, but abiding by Orthodox ascetic morality and doing so in a way that surpasses many.

There are things, like temptations, which people do not choose. They have them because this is a fallen world. So, it's also irrelevant whether something is genetic or not. Many diseases are genetic. Psychosis is genetic, but only a small percentage of those with the gene for psychosis act out on it in violent, sinful ways. There's no gene that suppresses free will. Each person is given crosses to bear. He is not judged on the crosses he carries (though he may bear some responsibility for creating some of those crosses), but on how he carries them.

I think you mince words too much for this discussion to find slight where there is none.

[Timon]

The little boy who started a sex change aged eight because he (and his lesbian parents) knew he always wanted to be a girl.

I think I wanted to be a ninja at age eight.

I wanted to be a baseball player!!

[Riddikulus]

Seems to me that if this was a case of "Lesbian pressure" to become a female, then the older brother has escaped the dark influence. 

[ialmisry]

...as well as promote certain liberal 'values' in his life.

Correct. It's about liberal values, not sexual orientation.

I reject that sexual orientation is genetic. It's due to a combination of societal pressure, personal fetish, and personal choice.

The decision as to whether to engage in sex acts may be a choice, but do you think you wouldn't be heterosexual if you didn't know any better? 

Yes.  I had a girl friend when I was a wee little lad who didn't know what the source of the difference was.

[ilyazhito]

OF COURSE, he would want to be a girl, he has two mummies, no male input, wants to conform to the household. thats why the traditional nuclear family model is best, it curbs instances such as these, where people try to justify having a social/ psychological problem through science and reasoning. there are feminine men and masculine women, that does not mean they were born into the wrong body. i actually can't comprehend the way some of these people speak and think 

+1!  This is weird. I would rather have him adopted by heterosexuals.

[Pikhristos Aftonf]

OF COURSE, he would want to be a girl, he has two mummies, no male input, wants to conform to the household. thats why the traditional nuclear family model is best, it curbs instances such as these, where people try to justify having a social/ psychological problem through science and reasoning. there are feminine men and masculine women, that does not mean they were born into the wrong body. i actually can't comprehend the way some of these people speak and think 

The so-called "nuclear family" was not even a concept until the seventeenth century.  It was not anything like prominent, until the twentieth century.  The real tradition is what is now referred to as an "extended family" with cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc.  That is how family is supposed to be - not cut off from one another, not shuttered up four people to a house. 

that's not entirely true.... God said, a man leaves his parents and becomes one with his wife. also the extended family model is also great. but it should be a nuclear family consisting of a father, mother and children, which all act within the extended family.they are a special sub-entity of the extended family.

[JamesRottnek]

Your claims are not justified by history.

[FantaLimon]

Lord, have mercy...

[Asteriktos]

Lord, have mercy...

Your posts make me thirsty for something citrusy, not sure why... 

[FantaLimon]

If it is not against the forum rules, I'd like to say that Lemon Fanta is the best Fanta.  

At least in Spain.

Anyway, I do not know if this boy truly feels transexual, if a sex change or hormones would make him "happy", or if this is a good thing for him regardless.  I wish good things for him and his family, especially since they are very probably sinning.  These are big, life-altering decisions being made by his parents.

[Gorazd]

the traditional nuclear family model

I would doubt that there is such a thing. Historically, people did not live in nuclear family, but in extended families with several generations.

[Alpo]

OF COURSE, he would want to be a girl, he has two mummies, no male input, wants to conform to the household.

I don't think that every kid in a homosexual or single parent household ends up transsexual.

[That person]

*sigh* Two words: Daily Mail 

Poor kid's probably gonna get cancer. 

[Pikhristos Aftonf]

OF COURSE, he would want to be a girl, he has two mummies, no male input, wants to conform to the household.

I don't think that every kid in a homosexual or single parent household ends up transsexual.

i agree, but it makes it more likely.
from my understanding, transsexualism is not genetic, so its behavioral. thus its a nurture problem.

[akimori makoto]

OF COURSE, he would want to be a girl, he has two mummies, no male input, wants to conform to the household.

I don't think that every kid in a homosexual or single parent household ends up transsexual.

i agree, but it makes it more likely.
from my understanding, transsexualism is not genetic, so its behavioral. thus its a nurture problem.

It is far from well-settled whether homosexuality and transsexualism are the result of nature or nurture.

... (I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying you should be more careful with statements like this) ...

[Pikhristos Aftonf]

i don't disagree, but i made this statement based on the vague idea i have been presented about transsexualism from abit of reading

[Achronos]

Just in time to get tampons ready.

[Riddikulus]

^ Shaking my head at Achronos!   

[Byzantine2008]

The little boy who started a sex change aged eight because he (and his lesbian parents) knew he always wanted to be a girl.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2043345/The-California-boy-11-undergoing-hormone-blocking-treatment.html

The lesbian parents of an 11-year-old boy who is undergoing the process of becoming a girl last night defended the decision, claiming it was better for a child to have a sex change when young.

Thomas Lobel, who now calls himself Tammy, is undergoing controversial hormone blocking treatment in Berkeley, California to stop him going through puberty as a boy.

But Pauline Moreno and Debra Lobel warn that children with gender identity disorder forced to postpone transitioning could face a higher risk of suicide.

Sigh...

Lord have mercy! 

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OrthodoxChristianity.net > Moderated Forums > Free-For-All > Non-Religious Topics (Moderator: Pravoslavbob) > Topic: Boy (11 yrs) in sex change. Lesbian parents fix his 'confusion'.