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Author Topic: New monastery opens in Ukraine  (Read 1517 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: October 02, 2011, 01:42:04 PM »

In the western region of Ukraine, a new Orthodox monastery has opened its doors. The site was blessed by Patriarch Kirill of the Russian Orthodox Church.

From the article:
Quote
Thousands of believers came to the service at the Trinity Cathedral. People started coming yesterday, and, for the sake of those who did not manage to get inside the cathedral, three large TV screens were installed around the monastery.
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« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2011, 01:59:06 PM »

In the western region of Ukraine, a new Orthodox monastery has opened its doors. The site was blessed by Patriarch Kirill of the Russian Orthodox Church.

From the article:
Quote
Thousands of believers came to the service at the Trinity Cathedral. People started coming yesterday, and, for the sake of those who did not manage to get inside the cathedral, three large TV screens were installed around the monastery.

Of course... Sad

Bleh.
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« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2011, 02:54:03 PM »

In the western region of Ukraine, a new Orthodox monastery has opened its doors. The site was blessed by Patriarch Kirill of the Russian Orthodox Church.

From the article:
Quote
Thousands of believers came to the service at the Trinity Cathedral. People started coming yesterday, and, for the sake of those who did not manage to get inside the cathedral, three large TV screens were installed around the monastery.

Of course... Sad

Bleh.
Don't like monasteries, or just Orthodox monasteries in West Ukraine?
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« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2011, 03:45:04 PM »

Yeah, it's always sad to see a new monastery open its doors...?
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« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2011, 04:39:18 PM »

The Ukraine can always use more.
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« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2011, 04:47:22 PM »

I would suggest the UOC-MP to establish more monasteries where most of their believers live: in Eastern Ukraine.
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« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2011, 05:28:01 PM »

I would suggest the UOC-MP to establish more monasteries where most of their believers live: in Eastern Ukraine.
Roughly half (actually more, outside of L'viv) of West Ukraine is Orthodox.  All the more reason to have monasteries and Churches on the ground to help the other half find its way back.
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« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2011, 02:42:28 PM »

The discussion of Ukrainian nationalism has been moved to Politics.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=40142.0
« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 02:43:30 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2011, 03:41:25 PM »

The discussion of Ukrainian nationalism has been moved to Politics.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=40142.0

Good move!!!!

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« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2011, 04:50:58 PM »

I would suggest the UOC-MP to establish more monasteries where most of their believers live: in Eastern Ukraine.
Roughly half (actually more, outside of L'viv) of West Ukraine is Orthodox.  All the more reason to have monasteries and Churches on the ground to help the other half find its way back.
this is also in the politics thread, but this bears repeating here, as it is not political, but just addresses the fact that in Chernivitsi, where this monastery was built, the UOC has plenty of believers:
Quote
Regarding the level of these needs, regional differences were unusually pronounced. In the western area, where people of the older generation were, more or less, fully catechized, the process of collectivization occurred without the terrible uprooting of institutionalized religion that happened in the rest of Ukraine. In the west the Church was a social and cultural nucleus parallel to the official society; therefore, without a doubt, the people felt their religious needs more strongly than was felt in the east. It is, therefore, hardly paradoxical that, in the western Chernivets region, which has the smallest population in Ukraine, 480 religious organizations were created from 1988 [the millenium of the Baptism of Rus', when the Soviet's began to give up on suppressing the Church] to 1986 [sic.  I think they mean 1996], but in the most-populated region, Donetsk, only 406 were created.
http://old.risu.org.ua/eng/religion.and.society/processes.of.religion/
The Chernivets region had been solidly Orthodox and Russophile (at least among the Slavs, among the Romanians not so much Russophilism, due to the annexation of Bessarbia and Russification) even under Austria-Hungary, which was just solidified by the reunion of the region to Romania, who had Orthodoxy as the religion of the state until after WWII.

Btw, the stats on parishes for 2004 for Chernivitsi is (legally registered/unregistered) Total 551 / 4
UOC (MP) 404 / 2
UOC KP 136 / 2
Old Believers 10
Others 1

Greek Catholic 21
Roman Catholic 32

Protestants 413 / 95

Other 17 / 12
 
Since the article brings it up, Donatsk Total 556

UOC (MP) 469
UOC KP 80
UAOC 3
Old Believers 1
Others 3
 
Greek Catholic 26
Roman Catholic 8 / 1

Prostestant 615 / 27

Other 76 / 5

And, since I'm curious if Gorazd has the same feelings towards the UGCC moving into a new cathedral in Kiev as he feels about the UOC building a monastery in West Ukraine, in Kiev Total 866

UOC (MP) 562
UOC KP 288
UAOC 14
Old Believers 1
Others 1
 
Greek Catholic 8
Roman Catholic 21
 
Protestants 438

Other 20
http://risu.org.ua/en/index/resourses/statistics/ukr-reg2004
 
 
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« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2011, 05:20:39 PM »

^I failed to post the stats on the city of Kiev itself:

Total 328 / 1

UOC (MP) 186
UOC KP 109 / 1
UAOC 29
Old Believers 2
Others 2
 
Greek Catholic 9
Roman Catholic 21
 
Protestants 309 / 42

Others 124 / 20
 
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« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2011, 07:33:49 AM »

I think the infrastructure should be where it is necessary. The MP has many believers in the East, but few monasteries. So it would be good to increase them there.

The UGCC is quite small in Kyiv, so I do think it would be better to keep the Patriarch in Lviv.


But let's look at the most socking detail of the statistics: "Protestants". German Lutherans and Hungarian Calvinists in Ukraine are few. Most "Protestants" are sects, stealing Orthodox believers. As much as I believe in freedom of religion, in that case, sects abuse that freedom and brainwash people. There must be some solution to that issue...
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« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2011, 07:37:31 AM »

But let's look at the most socking detail of the statistics: "Protestants". German Lutherans and Hungarian Calvinists in Ukraine are few. Most "Protestants" are sects, stealing Orthodox believers. As much as I believe in freedom of religion, in that case, sects abuse that freedom and brainwash people. There must be some solution to that issue...

How do you "steal" an Orthodox believer? 
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« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2011, 08:03:31 AM »

But let's look at the most socking detail of the statistics: "Protestants". German Lutherans and Hungarian Calvinists in Ukraine are few. Most "Protestants" are sects, stealing Orthodox believers. As much as I believe in freedom of religion, in that case, sects abuse that freedom and brainwash people. There must be some solution to that issue...

How do you "steal" an Orthodox believer? 

You know exactly what I mean. They profit for te lack of theological knowledge, telling people tat venerating icons is idolatry and leads to hell, or tat infant baptism doesn't count or whatever. All the "arguments" of te sects can be easily refuted, and they know very well that tey cannot convince ORtodox believers who know their theology. So they concentrate on people who don't.

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« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2011, 08:12:40 AM »

But let's look at the most socking detail of the statistics: "Protestants". German Lutherans and Hungarian Calvinists in Ukraine are few. Most "Protestants" are sects, stealing Orthodox believers. As much as I believe in freedom of religion, in that case, sects abuse that freedom and brainwash people. There must be some solution to that issue...

How do you "steal" an Orthodox believer? 

You know exactly what I mean. They profit for te lack of theological knowledge, telling people tat venerating icons is idolatry and leads to hell, or tat infant baptism doesn't count or whatever. All the "arguments" of te sects can be easily refuted, and they know very well that tey cannot convince ORtodox believers who know their theology. So they concentrate on people who don't.

So then they're not stealing Orthodox believers.  They are ministering to people that the local Orthodox church has no interest in ministering to. 
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« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2011, 08:50:22 AM »

I think the infrastructure should be where it is necessary. The MP has many believers in the East, but few monasteries. So it would be good to increase them there.

The UGCC is quite small in Kyiv, so I do think it would be better to keep the Patriarch in Lviv.


But let's look at the most socking detail of the statistics: "Protestants". German Lutherans and Hungarian Calvinists in Ukraine are few. Most "Protestants" are sects, stealing Orthodox believers. As much as I believe in freedom of religion, in that case, sects abuse that freedom and brainwash people. There must be some solution to that issue...

As Orthodox, should we be honouring the head of the UGCC by calling him "patriarch"?

Since when and by whose authority did he become a "patriarch"?

Frankly i find it offensive that these imposters, have taken to self-styling their leader as a Patriarch.
 
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« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2011, 09:12:32 AM »

So then they're not stealing Orthodox believers.  They are ministering to people that the local Orthodox church has no interest in ministering to. 
Which evidence do you have that the Orthodox Church is not interested in ministering to these people?


As Orthodox, should we be honouring the head of the UGCC by calling him "patriarch"?

Since when and by whose authority did he become a "patriarch"?

Frankly i find it offensive that these imposters, have taken to self-styling their leader as a Patriarch.
Honestly, I am just using the most widely used style... and I dont really care. If they want to call him Pope of Popes or whatever, I wouldn't mind.
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« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2011, 10:09:37 AM »

I think the infrastructure should be where it is necessary. The MP has many believers in the East, but few monasteries. So it would be good to increase them there.

The UGCC is quite small in Kyiv, so I do think it would be better to keep the Patriarch in Lviv.


But let's look at the most socking detail of the statistics: "Protestants". German Lutherans and Hungarian Calvinists in Ukraine are few. Most "Protestants" are sects, stealing Orthodox believers. As much as I believe in freedom of religion, in that case, sects abuse that freedom and brainwash people. There must be some solution to that issue...
I remember when I was in college, and there was someone studying Sovietology.  He claimed that most believers were really Baptist.  This was the early eighties.

Looking at these stats, the Orthodox outnumber the Protestants almost 2 to 1, but the new comer Protestants outnumber the UGCC/Mukacheve over 2 to 1.

Beefing up Orthodoxy is the solution to both.
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« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2011, 11:36:14 AM »

So then they're not stealing Orthodox believers.  They are ministering to people that the local Orthodox church has no interest in ministering to.  
Which evidence do you have that the Orthodox Church is not interested in ministering to these people?

The fact that they exist and are growing is evidence!  On Sundays I usually pass three protestant congregations and an Orthodox church.  The former are lively, vibrant and filled with young families.  The latter is moribund with a priest babbling about in some language people don't understand.

Added on edit: This is an interesting topic (why are Protestant groups thriving in Russia, Ukraine and Romania too it seems) but not related to this thread.  Let's start a new thread in the proper forum to discuss it.  Might as well start in politics as I can a feeling it will end up there anyway.  Properly speaking Liturgy would probably be the best forum for this as I see it as ultimately a liturgical failure. 
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« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2011, 02:08:41 PM »


Added on edit: This is an interesting topic (why are Protestant groups thriving in Russia, Ukraine and Romania too it seems) but not related to this thread.  Let's start a new thread in the proper forum to discuss it.  Might as well start in politics as I can a feeling it will end up there anyway.  Properly speaking Liturgy would probably be the best forum for this as I see it as ultimately a liturgical failure. 

Can't speak for Russia, but whenever I have visited Ukraine or Romania, I never noticed that Protestant groups are thriving.  Especially for Ukraine, the Protestants send missionaries especially young people from the USA but they have no impact at all.  It is hilarious to walk down a main street in Ukraine and hear someone shoulting in an southern-American accent in English with a bored translator beside him and the crowds of Ukrainians just walk by without interest.  No huge Protestant mega church in Ukraine.  Maybe a lot of money is being used to send all these mssionaries to Ukraine but they are not effective.
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« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2011, 06:08:16 PM »

I ran into Protestants in Russia and Ukraine, but they didn't seem significant in numbers or influence - Orthodoxy was everywhere and the churches were filled with young and old alike.
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« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2011, 02:05:57 PM »

In the western region of Ukraine, a new Orthodox monastery has opened its doors. The site was blessed by Patriarch Kirill of the Russian Orthodox Church.

From the article:
Quote
Thousands of believers came to the service at the Trinity Cathedral. People started coming yesterday, and, for the sake of those who did not manage to get inside the cathedral, three large TV screens were installed around the monastery.

The above quote is from an official ROC site.  This article in the main Ukrainian newspaper "Day" gives another picture of the visit:

http://www.day.kiev.ua/216754

Does Patriarch Kirill behave as if Ukraine does not have Sabodan?
By Olha KHARCHENKO, The Day, Hanna HARHALIA

“Taking into account that following the Soviet tradition they promised to block half of the city during Kirill’s visit, a lot of people left the city The Day before. Moreover, the weather was good and the mountain village of Pidzakharychi where Ivan Mykolaichuk shot his film The White Bird with a Black Sign hosted the popular ethnic festival Zakharetsky Harchyk for the eleventh time.
Kirill was waited for by his faithful authorities and a thousand policemen supposed to keep order. In the airport something unexpected happened. The only person who kneeled down in front of the guest was the acting Chernivtsi mayor Vitalii Mykhailishyn.”
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« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2011, 03:08:51 PM »

^^Wow, the official Ukrainian Greek Catholic statement was downright charitable and Christian in tone when compared to the snarky one from the UOC-KP!  Wink
« Last Edit: October 09, 2011, 03:11:49 PM by podkarpatska » Logged
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