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Author Topic: Abortion from the babies point of view ! WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT  (Read 21015 times) Average Rating: 0
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JR
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« on: October 01, 2011, 07:50:01 AM »




THIS IS A STORY.
PLEASE READ !!!!


Hi Mommy!
Share Sunday, July 11, 2010 at 1:16pm

Hi, Mommy. I'm your baby. You don't know me yet, I'm only a few
weeks old. You're going to find out about me soon, though, I promise.
Let me tell you some things about me. My name is John, and I've got
beautiful brown eyes and black hair. Well, I don't have it yet, but I
will when I'm born. I'm going to be your only child, and you'll call me
your one and only. I'm going to grow up without a daddy mostly, but we
have each other. We'll help each other, and love each other. I want to
be a doctor when I grow up.



You found out about me today, Mommy! You were so excited, you couldn't
wait to tell everyone. All you could do all day was smile, and life was
perfect. You have a beautiful smile, Mommy. It will be the first face I
will see in my life, and it will be the best thing I see in my life. I
know it already.



Today was the day you told Daddy. You were so excited to tell him about
me! ...He wasn't happy, Mommy. He kind of got angry. I don't think that
you noticed, but he did. He started to talk about something called
wedlock, and money, and bills, and stuff I don't think I understand
yet. You were still happy, though, so it was okay. Then he did
something scary, Mommy. He hit you. I could feel you fall backward, and
your hands flying up to protect me. I was okay... but I was very sad
for you. You were crying then, Mommy. That's a sound I don't like. It
doesn't make me feel good. It made me cry, too. He said sorry after,
and he hugged you again. You forgave him, Mommy, but I'm not sure if I
do. It wasn't right. You say he loves you... why would he hurt you? I
don't like it, Mommy.



Finally, you can see me! Your stomach is a little bit bigger, and
you're so proud of me! You went out with your mommy to buy new clothes,
and you were so so so happy. You sing to me, too. You have the most
beautiful voice in the whole wide world. When you sing is when I'm
happiest. And you talk to me, and I feel safe. So safe. You just wait
and see, Mommy. When I am born I will be perfect just for you. I will
make you proud, and I will love you with all of my heart.



I can move my hands and feet now, Mommy. I do it because you put your
hands on your belly to feel me, and I giggle. You giggle, too. I love
you, Mommy.



Daddy came to see you today, Mommy. I got really scared. He was acting
funny and he wasn't talking right. He said he didn't want you. I don't
know why, but that's what he said. And he hit you again. I got angry,
Mommy. When I grow up I promise I won't let you get hurt! I promise to
protect you. Daddy is bad. I don't care if you think that he is a good
person, I think he's bad. But he hit you, and he said he didn't want
us. He doesn't like me. Why doesn't he like me, Mommy?



You didn't talk to me tonight, Mommy. Is everything okay?



It's been three days since you saw Daddy. You haven't talked to me or
touched me or anything since that. Don't you still love me, Mommy? I
still love you. I think you feel sad. The only time I feel you is when
you sleep. You sleep funny, kind of curled up on your side. And you hug
me with your arms, and I feel safe and warm again. Why don't you do
that when you're awake, any more?



I'm 21 weeks old today, Mommy. Aren't you proud of me? We're going
somewhere today, and it's somewhere new. I'm excited. It looks like a
hospital, too. I want to be a doctor when I grow up, Mommy. Did I tell
you that? I hope you're as excited as I am. I can't wait.



...Mommy, I'm getting scared. Your heart is still beating, but I don't
know what you are thinking. The doctor is talking to you. I think
something's going to happen soon. I'm really, really, really scared,
Mommy. Please tell me you love me. Then I will feel safe again. I love
you!



Mommy, what are they doing to me!? It hurts! Please make them stop! It
feels bad! Please, Mommy, please please help me! Make them stop!



Don't worry Mommy, I'm safe. I'm in heaven with the angels now. They
told me what you did, and they said it's called an abortion.



Why, Mommy? Why did you do it? Don't you love me any more? Why did you
get rid of me? I'm really, really, really sorry if I did something
wrong, Mommy. I love you, Mommy! I love you with all of my heart. Why
don't you love me? What did I do to deserve what they did to me? I want
to live, Mommy! Please! It really, really hurts to see you not care
about me, and not talk to me. Didn't I love you enough? Please say
you'll keep me, Mommy! I want to live smile and watch the clouds and
see your face and grow up and be a doctor. I don't want to be here, I
want you to love me again! I'm really really really sorry if I did
something wrong. I love you!





I love you, Mommy.



Every abortion is just…



One more heart that was stopped.

Two more eyes that will never see.

Two more hands that will never touch.

Two more legs that will never run.

One more mouth that will never speak.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2012, 06:12:32 PM by Second Chance » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2011, 07:58:24 AM »

I don't believe that was written by a developing fetus, sorry.

I mean there are some Medieval accounts of the lives of Saints that push the limits of credulity (think St. Rumwold of Buckingham), but this I cannot believe.

Do you think photos of dead babies and purple prose are going to get Christians to feel sufficiently bad enough about abortion for you?

What is your point?

What would you like nearly everyone here who believes abortion is the ending of a human life to walk away from this stuff with?

Other than a distaste for your rhetoric and self-agranndizement?
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« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2011, 08:07:21 AM »

I don't believe that was written by a developing fetus, sorry.

I mean there are some Medieval accounts of the lives of Saints that push the limits of credulity (think St. Rumwold of Buckingham), but this I cannot believe.

Do you think photos of dead babies and purple prose are going to get Christians to feel sufficiently bad enough about abortion for you?

What is your point?

What would you like nearly everyone here who believes abortion is the ending of a human life to walk away from this stuff with?

Other than a distaste for your rhetoric and self-agranndizement?

you may not realise this, but as a Christian you are supposed to defend the weak and those can not defend themselves, including babies that have not been born.

By sharing posts like this enables Christians to share with there friends that may not share there hate on abortion.

It may opens peoples eyes and draw on there heart strings to stop this murder.

you are either for or against... I am not sure which you are as you only ever criticise !

I have never seen one post of yours where you defend your faith.

there is no standing on the fence, you are either for or against!



 
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« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2011, 08:14:56 AM »

I don't believe that was written by a developing fetus, sorry.

I mean there are some Medieval accounts of the lives of Saints that push the limits of credulity (think St. Rumwold of Buckingham), but this I cannot believe.

Do you think photos of dead babies and purple prose are going to get Christians to feel sufficiently bad enough about abortion for you?

What is your point?

What would you like nearly everyone here who believes abortion is the ending of a human life to walk away from this stuff with?

Other than a distaste for your rhetoric and self-agranndizement?

you may not realise this, but as a Christian you are supposed to defend the weak and those can not defend themselves, including babies that have not been born.

By sharing posts like this enables Christians to share with there friends that may not share there hate on abortion.

It may opens peoples eyes and draw on there heart strings to stop this murder.

you are either for or against... I am not sure which you are as you only ever criticise !

I have never seen one post of yours where you defend your faith.

there is no standing on the fence, you are either for or against!



 

Well you don't read much or retain what you read well. And that is not my problem.

So since you are preaching to the choir, what would you have us do with your tactless, sentimental, purple, ugly, stupid rhetoric?

If you want me to forward this sorta garbage to people who aren't against abortion.

I'll pass.

I would like a chance to remain they might change their heart.

Your post is vile and heartless.

 
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« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2011, 08:30:58 AM »

Is it possible to agree with a point while disagreeing with the methods used to make it?

Anyway...

Most children learn at a somewhat young age in school that once the sperm fertilizes the egg a number of things happen.

The egg seals itself so no other sperm can penetrate.

The genetic material present consists of a "x" chromosone with 23 genes from it's mother and either an "x" or "y" from the father also including 23 genes. These combine to make a full set of human DNA with 46 (23 pairs) genes with a sex based on the "xx" or "xy" combination from the parents.

Cells start reproducing.

It is alive and self sustaining until either it implants itself in the mother's uterus or, for one reason or another, doesn't implant and starves to death.

This makes it a living human being, by scientific definition, at the moment of conception.

Just for the record, agree with the Church's teaching.

Besides, the story is about a child that claims to be in heaven but doesn't want to be there. I don't know how theologically sound that part of the story is.
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« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2011, 08:45:33 AM »

I don't believe that was written by a developing fetus, sorry.

I mean there are some Medieval accounts of the lives of Saints that push the limits of credulity (think St. Rumwold of Buckingham), but this I cannot believe.

Do you think photos of dead babies and purple prose are going to get Christians to feel sufficiently bad enough about abortion for you?

What is your point?

What would you like nearly everyone here who believes abortion is the ending of a human life to walk away from this stuff with?

Other than a distaste for your rhetoric and self-agranndizement?

you may not realise this, but as a Christian you are supposed to defend the weak and those can not defend themselves, including babies that have not been born.

By sharing posts like this enables Christians to share with there friends that may not share there hate on abortion.

It may opens peoples eyes and draw on there heart strings to stop this murder.

you are either for or against... I am not sure which you are as you only ever criticise !

I have never seen one post of yours where you defend your faith.

there is no standing on the fence, you are either for or against!



 

Well you don't read much or retain what you read well. And that is not my problem.

So since you are preaching to the choir, what would you have us do with your tactless, sentimental, purple, ugly, stupid rhetoric?

If you want me to forward this sorta garbage to people who aren't against abortion.

I'll pass.

I would like a chance to remain they might change their heart.

Your post is vile and heartless.

 

That is precisely what abortion is:  vile and heartless
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« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2011, 08:58:34 AM »

A fetus that well-developed was probably not aborted, but a stillbirth. You can see the umbilical cord and the body appears to be intact. Also, fetal remains are usually disposed of fairly quickly, not placed on a towel. In most states you cannot get an abortion after a certain number of months.
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« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2011, 09:02:25 AM »

The evils of abortion are without argument, that we can all agree on.  This is a separate request please to the board moderator and the site moderators, and anyone who post photos in the future.  Can you please put something in the tagline of the original post that warns about the graphic nature of the photos to come.  Some of us might have small children who see what we're viewing online and others, like me, who were just shocked with an unexpected, stomach turning image as soon as they opened the post.  I would have liked some warning before opening.  Just put something in all caps like "CONTAINS GRAPHIC IMAGES".  Thank you.
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« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2011, 09:02:51 AM »

I don't believe that was written by a developing fetus, sorry.

I mean there are some Medieval accounts of the lives of Saints that push the limits of credulity (think St. Rumwold of Buckingham), but this I cannot believe.

Do you think photos of dead babies and purple prose are going to get Christians to feel sufficiently bad enough about abortion for you?

What is your point?

What would you like nearly everyone here who believes abortion is the ending of a human life to walk away from this stuff with?

Other than a distaste for your rhetoric and self-agranndizement?

you may not realise this, but as a Christian you are supposed to defend the weak and those can not defend themselves, including babies that have not been born.

By sharing posts like this enables Christians to share with there friends that may not share there hate on abortion.

It may opens peoples eyes and draw on there heart strings to stop this murder.

you are either for or against... I am not sure which you are as you only ever criticise !

I have never seen one post of yours where you defend your faith.

there is no standing on the fence, you are either for or against!



 

Well you don't read much or retain what you read well. And that is not my problem.

So since you are preaching to the choir, what would you have us do with your tactless, sentimental, purple, ugly, stupid rhetoric?

If you want me to forward this sorta garbage to people who aren't against abortion.

I'll pass.

I would like a chance to remain they might change their heart.

Your post is vile and heartless.

 

That is precisely what abortion is:  vile and heartless

And I think most of us will agree. The question is whether these shrill gimmicks are effective ways of addressing the problem. No, they're not.
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« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2011, 09:12:15 AM »

Just for the record, agree with the Church's teaching.

Too late to modify and just noticed it - meant to say "I agree with the Church's teaching"
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« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2011, 09:19:11 AM »

The question is whether these shrill gimmicks are effective ways of addressing the problem. No, they're not.

I think it depends on the context. The original post is definitely disturbing, IMHO in a positive sense. The ones who want to get it removed because they don't want to look at it should rather ask themselves if there are doing anything against abortion
(And to do something against it doesn't forcibly mean politics - one might actrually consider reaching out to human beings...)
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« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2011, 09:24:27 AM »

The question is whether these shrill gimmicks are effective ways of addressing the problem. No, they're not.

I think it depends on the context. The original post is definitely disturbing, IMHO in a positive sense. The ones who want to get it removed because they don't want to look at it should rather ask themselves if there are doing anything against abortion
(And to do something against it doesn't forcibly mean politics - one might actrually consider reaching out to human beings...)

 Smiley
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« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2011, 09:24:37 AM »

I don't believe that was written by a developing fetus, sorry.

I mean there are some Medieval accounts of the lives of Saints that push the limits of credulity (think St. Rumwold of Buckingham), but this I cannot believe.

lol

Do you think photos of dead babies and purple prose are going to get Christians to feel sufficiently bad enough about abortion for you?

What is your point?

What would you like nearly everyone here who believes abortion is the ending of a human life to walk away from this stuff with?

Other than a distaste for your rhetoric and self-agranndizement?

Is this a rhetorical thrust against an article you find bombastic, or are you really missing it's design?
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« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2011, 10:51:41 AM »

I don't believe that was written by a developing fetus, sorry.

I mean there are some Medieval accounts of the lives of Saints that push the limits of credulity (think St. Rumwold of Buckingham), but this I cannot believe.

Do you think photos of dead babies and purple prose are going to get Christians to feel sufficiently bad enough about abortion for you?

What is your point?

What would you like nearly everyone here who believes abortion is the ending of a human life to walk away from this stuff with?

Other than a distaste for your rhetoric and self-agranndizement?

you may not realise this, but as a Christian you are supposed to defend the weak and those can not defend themselves, including babies that have not been born.

By sharing posts like this enables Christians to share with there friends that may not share there hate on abortion.

It may opens peoples eyes and draw on there heart strings to stop this murder.

you are either for or against... I am not sure which you are as you only ever criticise !

I have never seen one post of yours where you defend your faith.

there is no standing on the fence, you are either for or against!



 

That's not exactly true. You can be against abortion with the understanding that the life of a fetus is not exactly the same thing as the life of an Adult. It is in a separate and unique category. So attempts to equate abortion with Mass Murder, or with the European Holocaust etc will fall on deaf ears.

We are not a soul encased inside a body. We are body and soul. If the body is in a very early stage it's experience is extremely limited. So when people put an equal sign between a Woman and her children being sent to the Gas Chamber during the Holocaust with the death of a fetus, it rightly confuses people . Their own good common sense tells them that these are two different types of events.

There should be no abortion. The way to stop abortion is by making a persuasive moral and religious argument. Trying to shock people with ghastly pictures, drawing false comparisons and talking to people who are pro-abortion like they are murderers will absolutely guarantee that Abortions will continue in outrageous number. It's a bad tactic.

The way to persuade people is to listen twice as much as you speak. God gave us two ears and just one mouth. Our moral argument should win over people but only if it is done with patience and humility.
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« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2011, 11:47:55 AM »

I read this on Facebook.

Lmao at the developing fetus bit
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« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2011, 12:09:00 PM »

That's not exactly true. You can be against abortion with the understanding that the life of a fetus is not exactly the same thing as the life of an Adult. It is in a separate and unique category. So attempts to equate abortion with Mass Murder, or with the European Holocaust etc will fall on deaf ears.

We are not a soul encased inside a body. We are body and soul. If the body is in a very early stage it's experience is extremely limited. So when people put an equal sign between a Woman and her children being sent to the Gas Chamber during the Holocaust with the death of a fetus, it rightly confuses people . Their own good common sense tells them that these are two different types of events.

There should be no abortion. The way to stop abortion is by making a persuasive moral and religious argument. Trying to shock people with ghastly pictures, drawing false comparisons and talking to people who are pro-abortion like they are murderers will absolutely guarantee that Abortions will continue in outrageous number. It's a bad tactic.

The way to persuade people is to listen twice as much as you speak. God gave us two ears and just one mouth. Our moral argument should win over people but only if it is done with patience and humility.

A human life is a human life. Every body-soul being that is human is equally human and has equal value. So I reject wholesale that mass murder and abortion are different things.

I have been to the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC and was deeply moved by the photos of mass graves and even just the piles of shoes. How is that not the same thing.

That people are not moved by an image of a dismembered human being shows what a stone-hearted, godless, and evil society this has become. This ain't some philosophical treatise we're talking about. No form of mass-murder is.

Yes, the Church should listen to and help these poor mothers. That is our great failure in this issue. But don't venture to mitigate the horror of what this holocaust actually is—nothing less than the wholesale slaughter of tens of millions of human persons.
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« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2011, 01:51:48 PM »

I'll admit that the story does appeal to some who consider abortion. I work with teenage girls and know of two that did not have an abortion after reading something like that sent to them from a friend.   I also know of one that read something like that after having an abortion and attempted suicide. I also know that for many (most?) girls/young women that I have worked with, the story would have a deleterious effect.  The story probably appeals more to those who have never had an abortion and to those who may or may not have had abortions, but have a stable worldview.  Abortion is an evil, don't get me wrong, I've seen its ugly face too many times, but like some others have said, are we interested in truly eradicating it?  If so, then you have to be willing to make an extreme emotional and physical investmentr.  Posting stories on the internet does not suffice.  Posting stories that appeal to our own emotions, but has little to say to those actually experiencing the unfathomable darkness of contemplating abortion (yes, contemplating it is a great darkness in and of itself), is a failure on the face of it.  In my experience, most people are just not willing to make the investment needed.   
« Last Edit: October 01, 2011, 01:53:42 PM by Ionnis » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2011, 02:07:48 PM »

We should make this the abortion thread to end all abortion threads. The primary topics covered should be the following:

- Call abortion murder, and pretend that using terms like that means something.
- Talk about rallies and marches.
- Talk about voting for politicians who are pro-life, and will put in place activist pro-life judges
- Talk about protesting abortion clinics.
- Enourage protesting at the residences of doctors who do abortive procedures.
- Make up stories from the perspective of a fetus.
- Show pictures--whether real or not doesn't matter--that will shock people.

Some have already been covered, and we have a good start. I'm counting on you guys. (I'm pro-life, btw).
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« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2011, 02:34:06 PM »

- Talk about rallies and marches.
- Talk about voting for politicians who are pro-life, and will put in place activist pro-life judges
- Talk about protesting abortion clinics.

These are not necessarily bad ideas. I guess the question is "who is willing to?". Unfortunately, I've only personally done one of the three, and I didn't cast my vote solely on the issue of abortion, even though it was a factor in the decision making process.

Promoting alternatives to abortion and some of the reasons that push women towards abortion might not be bad.

As mentioned above, there is also the issue of healing.
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« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2011, 02:54:46 PM »

A human life is a human life. Every body-soul being that is human is equally human and has equal value. So I reject wholesale that mass murder and abortion are different things.

You see, you have lived all your life in a society where there is this loud voice, TELLING you that life begins at conception. But if you did not hear this voice, you would hardly come to this conclusion yourself. I lived in a different society (the former USSR), where abortion up until the end of the 12th week of pregnancy was perfectly legal and performed as regularly as filling teeth (and at no cost to the patient). And I assure you, women - even though they did not like this procedure, nobody likes it, - did NOT believe that those who aborted their fetuses killed "babies." Such notion just was not put into their heads. Very few women in their birth-giving age had ever heard any message from the Church or from any other religious group for that matter. So, to them, a fetus was a fetus, and a baby a baby. "It" was called "baby" ONLY when "it" was born.

BTW, when I finished my fourth year of studies at Kyiv Medical University, I, like all other senior students, was sent for a short (1 month) practice at a rural hospital. Among other things, our agenda there included assisting at birth. One night, the obstetrician whom I assisted helped a woman deliver her baby, and the baby turned out to be very premature, tiny, bluish, but able to emit a very soft, barely audible cry. The obstetrician took it in his hands, made a hole it its scull, and threw it into a large bucket filled with water. He then explained to the mother that the baby was too ill, and had absolutely no chance to survive. He said, also, that to terminate the life of that baby was not only his legal right, but also a part of his professional duty of a physician. The mother cried, of course, but when the obstetrician said, "you shouldn't grieve, these things happen, and you are young, you will most definitely have babies soon," - she stopped crying. The year was 1979, not that long time ago.

As I have written in another thread, I am very much against abortion, because I hear the voice of the Church and obey it. But many people do not, and many people may, REALLY, have a different take on what "human life" is. So, rather than scream about murder of innocent babies, we should, rather, attract more people to the Church (instead of repelling them from Her by our tactless behavior and speech), and, also, share with others the objective knowledge of embryology, of the recent data about the early embryonal life obtained with the help of computer imaging.

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« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2011, 03:28:51 PM »

That people are not moved by an image of a dismembered human being shows what a stone-hearted, godless, and evil society this has become. This ain't some philosophical treatise we're talking about. No form of mass-murder is.
Do you think it possible that we are not moved by such images anymore because we've seen so many of them plastered all over the Internet that we're just tired of seeing them? Do you also not realize that we are looking at a photo and not at the aborted fetus itself? That level of separation tends to actually divorce us from the reality of abortion.
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« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2011, 03:54:18 PM »


I have never seen one post of yours where you defend your faith.

Honestly, in pointing out the flaws in arguments like this, orthonorm has presented a good defense of the faith to me on numerous occasions, showing that one can be a good Orthodox Christian without totally sacrificing some level of critical thought or a sense of humor. On a forum like this, showing people how to defend their faith well, which orthonorm does in his own special way, is just as important as presenting a defense of the faith to people who disbelieve in it.
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« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2011, 04:22:27 PM »

That people are not moved by an image of a dismembered human being shows what a stone-hearted, godless, and evil society this has become. This ain't some philosophical treatise we're talking about. No form of mass-murder is.
Do you think it possible that we are not moved by such images anymore because we've seen so many of them plastered all over the Internet that we're just tired of seeing them? Do you also not realize that we are looking at a photo and not at the aborted fetus itself? That level of separation tends to actually divorce us from the reality of abortion.

I personally have only ever seen such photos very few times, and none were on the Internet. So, I guess it's possible that people have been desensitized to it.

But on the other hand, I've seen the video of the World Trade Center exploding countless times, and I still feel the wind knocked out of me a little when I see it.  I have seen lots of Holocaust photos over the years, and I cringe every time I see another one. I am not accusing anybody in particular of this, but I think desensitization in general is in part willful.

I think society's attitude toward abortion and those who are vehemently against it has influenced people people to being dismissive to abortion photos, quite honestly. If you gave such a photo to St Paul, I doubt he would react with dismissiveness. That attitude is what I'm saying is hardhearted.

I think people know it's evil, and they can't stand being face-to-face with the results, so they shout down anyone who shows them the truth. (Again, I am not referring to anyone here per se, but society in general.)

I do agree that it's not the best tactic, however. A much better one is to require the mother to view ultrasonic imagery of the fetus before she makes the decision, and to listen to its beating heart. That is a much more informed decision. And it actually prevents abortion in many cases.
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« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2011, 04:46:06 PM »

If you gave such a photo to St Paul, I doubt he would react with dismissiveness.
How do you conclude this? Do you know St. Paul personally?
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« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2011, 04:54:31 PM »

That people are not moved by an image of a dismembered human being shows what a stone-hearted, godless, and evil society this has become. This ain't some philosophical treatise we're talking about. No form of mass-murder is.
Do you think it possible that we are not moved by such images anymore because we've seen so many of them plastered all over the Internet that we're just tired of seeing them? Do you also not realize that we are looking at a photo and not at the aborted fetus itself? That level of separation tends to actually divorce us from the reality of abortion.

I personally have only ever seen such photos very few times, and none were on the Internet. So, I guess it's possible that people have been desensitized to it.

But on the other hand, I've seen the video of the World Trade Center exploding countless times, and I still feel the wind knocked out of me a little when I see it.  I have seen lots of Holocaust photos over the years, and I cringe every time I see another one. I am not accusing anybody in particular of this, but I think desensitization in general is in part willful.

I think society's attitude toward abortion and those who are vehemently against it has influenced people people to being dismissive to abortion photos, quite honestly. If you gave such a photo to St Paul, I doubt he would react with dismissiveness. That attitude is what I'm saying is hardhearted.

I think people know it's evil, and they can't stand being face-to-face with the results, so they shout down anyone who shows them the truth. (Again, I am not referring to anyone here per se, but society in general.)

I do agree that it's not the best tactic, however. A much better one is to require the mother to view ultrasonic imagery of the fetus before she makes the decision, and to listen to its beating heart. That is a much more informed decision. And it actually prevents abortion in many cases.

My daughter insisted that a friend and co-worker view images of a late term abortion on the Internet.  He was trying to force his daughter into a late term abortion.  The images which he viewed on-line stopped the argument cold.

I think those things have their place.
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« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2011, 05:01:08 PM »

I'll admit that the story does appeal to some who consider abortion. I work with teenage girls and know of two that did not have an abortion after reading something like that sent to them from a friend.   I also know of one that read something like that after having an abortion and attempted suicide. I also know that for many (most?) girls/young women that I have worked with, the story would have a deleterious effect.  The story probably appeals more to those who have never had an abortion and to those who may or may not have had abortions, but have a stable worldview.  Abortion is an evil, don't get me wrong, I've seen its ugly face too many times, but like some others have said, are we interested in truly eradicating it?  If so, then you have to be willing to make an extreme emotional and physical investmentr.  Posting stories on the internet does not suffice.  Posting stories that appeal to our own emotions, but has little to say to those actually experiencing the unfathomable darkness of contemplating abortion (yes, contemplating it is a great darkness in and of itself), is a failure on the face of it.  In my experience, most people are just not willing to make the investment needed.    

OK y'all, meet good cop.

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« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2011, 05:39:34 PM »

I'll admit that the story does appeal to some who consider abortion. I work with teenage girls and know of two that did not have an abortion after reading something like that sent to them from a friend.   I also know of one that read something like that after having an abortion and attempted suicide. I also know that for many (most?) girls/young women that I have worked with, the story would have a deleterious effect.  The story probably appeals more to those who have never had an abortion and to those who may or may not have had abortions, but have a stable worldview.  Abortion is an evil, don't get me wrong, I've seen its ugly face too many times, but like some others have said, are we interested in truly eradicating it?  If so, then you have to be willing to make an extreme emotional and physical investmentr.  Posting stories on the internet does not suffice.  Posting stories that appeal to our own emotions, but has little to say to those actually experiencing the unfathomable darkness of contemplating abortion (yes, contemplating it is a great darkness in and of itself), is a failure on the face of it.  In my experience, most people are just not willing to make the investment needed.    

OK y'all, meet good cop.

-Bad cop


O! Norm...I admit that I am surprised by your responses here and on the other abortion topic currently active.  I would not have predicted your responses.

Why the need for a bad cop in a discussion on abortion in a Catholic venue [naming you and other Orthodox as Catholic here, since I can accurately, and feel like it]

M.
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« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2011, 06:36:05 PM »

I had a "movement" occur from this photo.  The acid in my stomach nearly "moved" up through my esophagus and out of my mouth.  I did not even read the story, because that photo turned my completely off of the original post.  Frankly, you should be ashamed of yourself for posting something like that, without any sort of warning in the thread title or sub-title.  It is abhorrent.  You are abhorrent.

If you had merely stopped at "It is abhorrent," without the additional attack on JR's person, everything would have been all right. However, the additional "You are abhorrent," is an ad hominem, the likes of which already drew you a warning just a couple days ago. For this egregious personal attack, you are now on Post Moderation for the next 40 days. During the time of your moderation, everything you post will need to be screened by a moderator before it will appear on the forum.

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« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2011, 06:49:39 PM »

I had a "movement" occur from this photo.  The acid in my stomach nearly "moved" up through my esophagus and out of my mouth.  

If I, who have aborted, can look at photos of dead babies like that and not go screaming out into the night, then surely we all can look and know what we do, either by our own volitional acts or by inaction.  Those who are active in the pro-life movement have become acclimated to viewing the results of Roe v. Wade.  I will admit that it has taken me a long time to look and there are times when I cannot or times when the shock is visceral, but I look in any event, and I do not complain, for I trust His mercy and His justice.

War and dismemberment do the same thing to me, but there comes a time when trust in God MUST outweigh all else...but the images of the results of our stiff necks should ultimately inspire humility and not anger or bile.

M.
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« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2011, 06:59:46 PM »

Thank you for psoting this JR. It is conveys a powerful and necessary truth. While some may be upset because this tragic image merely upsets their appetite, others will have their hearts broken and be moved to tears and then to action. It is really sad that professing Orthodox Christians would have any reaction to this anti-abortion message other than deep sorrow and wholehearted support for the truth you have conveyed. Please be assured that there are many of us who are behind you 100%. Don't let these heartless negative reactions discourage you. These same people wouldn't be nearly so callous if it were their own childern who had been brutally murdered. The Judgment awaits us all, and we will no doubt be judged by how we treat "the least of these".

Thank you brother!



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« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2011, 07:02:07 PM »

I had a "movement" occur from this photo.  The acid in my stomach nearly "moved" up through my esophagus and out of my mouth.  

If I, who have aborted, can look at photos of dead babies like that and not go screaming out into the night, then surely we all can look and know what we do, either by our own volitional acts or by inaction.  Those who are active in the pro-life movement have become acclimated to viewing the results of Roe v. Wade.  I will admit that it has taken me a long time to look and there are times when I cannot or times when the shock is visceral, but I look in any event, and I do not complain, for I trust His mercy and His justice.

War and dismemberment do the same thing to me, but there comes a time when trust in God MUST outweigh all else...but the images of the results of our stiff necks should ultimately inspire humility and not anger or bile.

M.


Amen ElijahMaria! Well said. Thank you.


Selam

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« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2011, 07:25:41 PM »

Thank you for psoting this JR. It is conveys a powerful and necessary truth. While some may be upset because this tragic image merely upsets their appetite, others will have their hearts broken and be moved to tears and then to action. It is really sad that professing Orthodox Christians would have any reaction to this anti-abortion message other than deep sorrow and wholehearted support for the truth you have conveyed. Please be assured that there are many of us who are behind you 100%. Don't let these heartless negative reactions discourage you. These same people wouldn't be nearly so callous if it were their own childern who had been brutally murdered. The Judgment awaits us all, and we will no doubt be judged by how we treat "the least of these".

Thank you brother!
So you don't think it's possible that some could agree 100% with the message yet deem the method one chooses to proclaim the message 100% wrong? Why use such graphic images to proclaim the message to a community where almost all agree with its content, and why on the Orthodox Family Forum?
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« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2011, 07:36:33 PM »

Thank you for psoting this JR. It is conveys a powerful and necessary truth. While some may be upset because this tragic image merely upsets their appetite, others will have their hearts broken and be moved to tears and then to action. It is really sad that professing Orthodox Christians would have any reaction to this anti-abortion message other than deep sorrow and wholehearted support for the truth you have conveyed. Please be assured that there are many of us who are behind you 100%. Don't let these heartless negative reactions discourage you. These same people wouldn't be nearly so callous if it were their own childern who had been brutally murdered. The Judgment awaits us all, and we will no doubt be judged by how we treat "the least of these".

Thank you brother!
So you don't think it's possible that some could agree 100% with the message yet deem the method one chooses to proclaim the message 100% wrong? Why use such graphic images to proclaim the message to a community where almost all agree with its content, and why on the Orthodox Family Forum?


If others feel there is a more effective way to promote the cause of Life, then they should do that. IMO, the OP is very effective and appropriate because 1) it shows the harsh and disturbing reality of abortion, 2) it conveys a message of empathy, 3) it gives voice to the voiceless, and 4)it compassionately appeals to the hearts of mothers considering abortion without merely saying "murderer!"

So, I find it a well rounded message that is absolutely appropriate. And as someone else has mentioned, this message has indeed saved lives. I have seen this very message handed out to women outside of abortion clinics, and I have seen it change the minds of abortion-minded women.

As for this forum being a community where almost all agree with its content, I wish I could believe you.



Selam
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« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2011, 08:07:30 PM »

I'll admit that the story does appeal to some who consider abortion. I work with teenage girls and know of two that did not have an abortion after reading something like that sent to them from a friend.   I also know of one that read something like that after having an abortion and attempted suicide. I also know that for many (most?) girls/young women that I have worked with, the story would have a deleterious effect.  The story probably appeals more to those who have never had an abortion and to those who may or may not have had abortions, but have a stable worldview.  Abortion is an evil, don't get me wrong, I've seen its ugly face too many times, but like some others have said, are we interested in truly eradicating it?  If so, then you have to be willing to make an extreme emotional and physical investmentr.  Posting stories on the internet does not suffice.  Posting stories that appeal to our own emotions, but has little to say to those actually experiencing the unfathomable darkness of contemplating abortion (yes, contemplating it is a great darkness in and of itself), is a failure on the face of it.  In my experience, most people are just not willing to make the investment needed.    

OK y'all, meet good cop.

-Bad cop


O! Norm...I admit that I am surprised by your responses here and on the other abortion topic currently active.  I would not have predicted your responses.

Why the need for a bad cop in a discussion on abortion in a Catholic venue [naming you and other Orthodox as Catholic here, since I can accurately, and feel like it]

M.

Because you have to reign in the nonsense.

Why are you surprised?

I've spoke my piece on this before, search abortion with my name under advance search.

If this stuff worked, abortion would be a thing of the past.

What is required is for Christians to take their own seriously, which almost none do, certain not the recent thread makers. There's your bad cop.

Blather about murder, holding signs, pumping vulgar photos, changes the hearts of nearly no one.

Christian ought to be on the frontline of care and supporting women from day one of their lives from the poorest to the wealthiest. Willing to sit with them through an "unwanted" pregnancy. Not creating atmosphere's guilt and the like.

And in the lives of men from day one teaching them how to care and respect women.

The rhetoric around here lately has been back slapping, choir preaching, hollow gestures.

Again, I've asked the creators of these threads what they DID today about the holocaust (they don't believe their own words, in my search you will see that I have proven this) and what they would have us DO.

And I get *crickets*.

Abortion ain't murder. It ain't a holocaust. It is the ending of a human life in a legally and in pretty much a socially acceptable way by women who often are in pain or who perhaps worse, aren't.

That should be enough for any Christian to want to minister to these women and all women.

I don't need the mercurial shock rhetoric or numbers games to keep this mind.

Numbers don't matter. Pictures don't matter.

I want to hear what these "defenders" of the faith are doing that WORKS and ain't played out '78.

Till, I'll do what I do. Call BS on Christians when they need it.

And if you to discuss what does "work" PM. I doubt we would disagree.


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« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2011, 08:10:07 PM »

Thank you for psoting this JR. It is conveys a powerful and necessary truth. While some may be upset because this tragic image merely upsets their appetite, others will have their hearts broken and be moved to tears and then to action. It is really sad that professing Orthodox Christians would have any reaction to this anti-abortion message other than deep sorrow and wholehearted support for the truth you have conveyed. Please be assured that there are many of us who are behind you 100%. Don't let these heartless negative reactions discourage you. These same people wouldn't be nearly so callous if it were their own childern who had been brutally murdered. The Judgment awaits us all, and we will no doubt be judged by how we treat "the least of these".

Thank you brother!
So you don't think it's possible that some could agree 100% with the message yet deem the method one chooses to proclaim the message 100% wrong? Why use such graphic images to proclaim the message to a community where almost all agree with its content, and why on the Orthodox Family Forum?


If others feel there is a more effective way to promote the cause of Life, then they should do that. IMO, the OP is very effective and appropriate because 1) it shows the harsh and disturbing reality of abortion, 2) it conveys a message of empathy, 3) it gives voice to the voiceless, and 4)it compassionately appeals to the hearts of mothers considering abortion without merely saying "murderer!"

So, I find it a well rounded message that is absolutely appropriate. And as someone else has mentioned, this message has indeed saved lives. I have seen this very message handed out to women outside of abortion clinics, and I have seen it change the minds of abortion-minded women.

As for this forum being a community where almost all agree with its content, I wish I could believe you.



Selam


If this worked, abortion would be a thing of the past or used very rarely.

Again this stuff was shown useless back in '78.

Enjoy your back-slapping with each other.
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« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2011, 08:13:05 PM »

Thank you for psoting this JR. It is conveys a powerful and necessary truth. While some may be upset because this tragic image merely upsets their appetite, others will have their hearts broken and be moved to tears and then to action. It is really sad that professing Orthodox Christians would have any reaction to this anti-abortion message other than deep sorrow and wholehearted support for the truth you have conveyed. Please be assured that there are many of us who are behind you 100%. Don't let these heartless negative reactions discourage you. These same people wouldn't be nearly so callous if it were their own childern who had been brutally murdered. The Judgment awaits us all, and we will no doubt be judged by how we treat "the least of these".

Thank you brother!
So you don't think it's possible that some could agree 100% with the message yet deem the method one chooses to proclaim the message 100% wrong? Why use such graphic images to proclaim the message to a community where almost all agree with its content, and why on the Orthodox Family Forum?


If others feel there is a more effective way to promote the cause of Life, then they should do that. IMO, the OP is very effective and appropriate because 1) it shows the harsh and disturbing reality of abortion, 2) it conveys a message of empathy, 3) it gives voice to the voiceless, and 4)it compassionately appeals to the hearts of mothers considering abortion without merely saying "murderer!"

So, I find it a well rounded message that is absolutely appropriate. And as someone else has mentioned, this message has indeed saved lives. I have seen this very message handed out to women outside of abortion clinics, and I have seen it change the minds of abortion-minded women.
And yet, you're still focused on the message, which I don't question. However, many here who have no problem with JR's message are turned off by the method he has chosen to communicate it. You, however, appear to equate the message and the method as though they are one and the same, as if criticism of the method is the same as criticism of the message. They are not the same.

As for this forum being a community where almost all agree with its content, I wish I could believe you.
However, those who post on the Orthodox Family Forum tend to be a lot more homogeneous in their adherence to the Orthodox faith than the general forum membership.
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« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2011, 08:20:39 PM »

As for this forum being a community where almost all agree with its content, I wish I could believe you.



Selam


Aside from the silly content / form dichotomy you raise which is rubbish, what is the "content" and who doesn't "agree" with it.

Stop your passive-aggression.
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« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2011, 08:27:39 PM »

As for this forum being a community where almost all agree with its content, I wish I could believe you.



Selam


Aside from the silly content / form dichotomy you raise which is rubbish, what is the "content" and who doesn't "agree" with it.

Stop your passive-aggression.

This seems far more offensive to me than photographs of badly used and abused babies.

This turns the horror of murdering children in the womb into some kind of academic exercise.

Perhaps THIS is why we make so few inroads against the murderous practice...eh?

I think so anyway. 

We are too willing to put something...anything...between us and the reality.
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« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2011, 08:31:52 PM »

As for this forum being a community where almost all agree with its content, I wish I could believe you.



Selam


Aside from the silly content / form dichotomy you raise which is rubbish, what is the "content" and who doesn't "agree" with it.

Stop your passive-aggression.

This seems far more offensive to me than photographs of badly used and abused babies.

This turns the horror of murdering children in the womb into some kind of academic exercise.

Perhaps THIS is why we make so few inroads against the murderous practice...eh?

I think so anyway. 

We are too willing to put something...anything...between us and the reality.

I truly don't follow.
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« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2011, 08:36:12 PM »

As for this forum being a community where almost all agree with its content, I wish I could believe you.



Selam


Aside from the silly content / form dichotomy you raise which is rubbish, what is the "content" and who doesn't "agree" with it.

Stop your passive-aggression.

This seems far more offensive to me than photographs of badly used and abused babies.

This turns the horror of murdering children in the womb into some kind of academic exercise.

Perhaps THIS is why we make so few inroads against the murderous practice...eh?

I think so anyway. 

We are too willing to put something...anything...between us and the reality.

I truly don't follow.

Then we are even because your reactions have me at a total loss...and the intensity of your negative reaction, to the point of being personally insulting,  to anyone pressing the idea that the images are as effective as the words is strange to me.

I would not have numbered you among the squeamish.
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« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2011, 08:38:33 PM »

As for this forum being a community where almost all agree with its content, I wish I could believe you.



Selam


Aside from the silly content / form dichotomy you raise which is rubbish, what is the "content" and who doesn't "agree" with it.

Stop your passive-aggression.

This seems far more offensive to me than photographs of badly used and abused babies.

This turns the horror of murdering children in the womb into some kind of academic exercise.

Perhaps THIS is why we make so few inroads against the murderous practice...eh?

I think so anyway. 

We are too willing to put something...anything...between us and the reality.

I truly don't follow.

Then we are even because your reactions have me at a total loss...and the intensity of your negative reaction, to the point of being personally insulting,  to anyone pressing the idea that the images are as effective as the words is strange to me.

I would not have numbered you among the squeamish.
It doesn't strike me as squeamishness as much as it does distaste for poorly-written arguments rooted entirely in appeal to emotion.
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« Reply #41 on: October 01, 2011, 08:39:46 PM »

It would have been nice to have had a warning before seeing that horrible picture.
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« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2011, 08:44:39 PM »

As for this forum being a community where almost all agree with its content, I wish I could believe you.



Selam


Aside from the silly content / form dichotomy you raise which is rubbish, what is the "content" and who doesn't "agree" with it.

Stop your passive-aggression.

This seems far more offensive to me than photographs of badly used and abused babies.

This turns the horror of murdering children in the womb into some kind of academic exercise.

Perhaps THIS is why we make so few inroads against the murderous practice...eh?

I think so anyway. 

We are too willing to put something...anything...between us and the reality.

I truly don't follow.

Then we are even because your reactions have me at a total loss...and the intensity of your negative reaction, to the point of being personally insulting,  to anyone pressing the idea that the images are as effective as the words is strange to me.

I would not have numbered you among the squeamish.
It doesn't strike me as squeamishness as much as it does distaste for poorly-written arguments rooted entirely in appeal to emotion.

Then we are back to my saying that the intent of the images and text is NOT to establish an academic argument against abortion.

Sin of that magnitude is not moved by the cool breezes of rational thought.

Sin of that magnitude is moved by horror and compunction for that horror.

The pictures and words are not meant to promote calm logic but the realization of the horror of the act.

That approach to sin has its place. 

Most of us are too cool to really face the horror of our sin.

I was NOT suggesting that orthonorm's reaction was "squeamishness" in a girlie sense...heh! I'll get shot for that one...but in the sense of a resistance...a violent resistance...to the harshness of the reality of abortion.

I am trying to understand that reaction.  I would not have predicted that from him.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2011, 08:46:16 PM by elijahmaria » Logged

PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2011, 08:44:56 PM »

As for this forum being a community where almost all agree with its content, I wish I could believe you.



Selam


Aside from the silly content / form dichotomy you raise which is rubbish, what is the "content" and who doesn't "agree" with it.
1.  Gebre is not the one who brought up this "content/form" dichotomy. I am.
2.  How is it rubbish?
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PeterTheAleut
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Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #44 on: October 01, 2011, 08:45:55 PM »

As for this forum being a community where almost all agree with its content, I wish I could believe you.



Selam


Aside from the silly content / form dichotomy you raise which is rubbish, what is the "content" and who doesn't "agree" with it.

Stop your passive-aggression.

This seems far more offensive to me than photographs of badly used and abused babies.

This turns the horror of murdering children in the womb into some kind of academic exercise.

Perhaps THIS is why we make so few inroads against the murderous practice...eh?

I think so anyway. 

We are too willing to put something...anything...between us and the reality.

I truly don't follow.

Then we are even because your reactions have me at a total loss...and the intensity of your negative reaction, to the point of being personally insulting,  to anyone pressing the idea that the images are as effective as the words is strange to me.

I would not have numbered you among the squeamish.
It doesn't strike me as squeamishness as much as it does distaste for poorly-written arguments rooted entirely in appeal to emotion.
EXACTLY!
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