Author Topic: Supreme Court To Examine 'Ministerial Exemption' Case  (Read 1027 times)

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Offline Jetavan

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Supreme Court To Examine 'Ministerial Exemption' Case
« on: September 29, 2011, 02:33:51 PM »
Quote
WASHINGTON (RNS) The Supreme Court on Wednesday (Oct. 5.) will hear one of most important religion cases in decades, centered on the degree to which religious institutions should be exempt from anti-discrimination laws.

The case started at a Lutheran elementary school in Michigan where a teacher claimed she was fired in violation of the Americans With Disabilities Act.

The question before the justices concerns the "ministerial exception," a 40-year-old legal doctrine that protects churches and other religious institutions from government interference in their employment decisions.

Few would dispute that a religious congregation should be unfettered when it chooses to hire or fire clergy. But what about other church employees?....
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 02:34:14 PM by Jetavan »
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Supreme Court To Examine 'Ministerial Exemption' Case
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2011, 04:10:34 PM »
My quick response is that the government stands firm on the fact that the Church can not meddle in state affairs however they say nothing about the reverse.

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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Supreme Court To Examine 'Ministerial Exemption' Case
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2011, 05:37:37 PM »
I may have to "duck" on this one, but I find it sad when any church needs any employees other than voluntary congregation members.   
If anything only the priest should really be paid if its a larger church.  As far as staff, I think the church could send out newsletters asking for help in various departments rather than hiring out people.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Supreme Court To Examine 'Ministerial Exemption' Case
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2011, 09:45:08 PM »
I may have to "duck" on this one, but I find it sad when any church needs any employees other than voluntary congregation members.   
If anything only the priest should really be paid if its a larger church.  As far as staff, I think the church could send out newsletters asking for help in various departments rather than hiring out people.

This is ludicrous.  A lot of churches also run schools and how many qualified teachers do you think every congregation will have?  People aren't going to send their children to a parochial school just for the religious nature of the education, but also for a good education.  That can't happen if you're only going to rely on volunteers from the congregation.
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Supreme Court To Examine 'Ministerial Exemption' Case
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2011, 01:30:04 PM »
I am under the impression that this case has to deal with paid employees (secretaries, teachers, janitors, etc). If a muslim applies to a Lutheran church that has an opening, the Lutheran Church can deny the application and Mr. Muslim sues. Not volunteers.


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Offline Gamliel

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Re: Supreme Court To Examine 'Ministerial Exemption' Case
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2011, 10:06:31 PM »
Just from reading the link, it seems more like an ADA issue than a religious one.

Offline Tallitot

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Re: Supreme Court To Examine 'Ministerial Exemption' Case
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2011, 12:20:54 AM »
I may have to "duck" on this one, but I find it sad when any church needs any employees other than voluntary congregation members.   
If anything only the priest should really be paid if its a larger church.  As far as staff, I think the church could send out newsletters asking for help in various departments rather than hiring out people.

You believe teachers in church schools should teach full time for free?
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Offline HabteSelassie

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Re: Supreme Court To Examine 'Ministerial Exemption' Case
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2012, 03:57:15 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Quote
LA TIMES: January 11, 2012. ..The Supreme Court extended the principle of church-state separation Wednesday to shield religious schools nationwide from discrimination suits from teachers and school employees who serve as “ministers” of the faith.

In a unanimous ruling, the high court for the first time concluded the Constitution includes a “ministerial exception” that protects churches and their schools from undue interference from the government and its courts.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2012/01/supreme-court-shields-religious-schools-from-teacher-discrimination-suits.html

This is a good decision for those folks worried about the expansion of homosexual marriage, as it clearly allows the Church to be able to maintain her own internal housekeeping and human resources management.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

Offline primuspilus

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Re: Supreme Court To Examine 'Ministerial Exemption' Case
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2012, 03:58:54 PM »
Amen. Thank God. Hopefully it'll stick forever.

PP
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"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Supreme Court To Examine 'Ministerial Exemption' Case
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2012, 04:44:54 PM »
No law sticks forever.
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Supreme Court To Examine 'Ministerial Exemption' Case
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2012, 05:48:19 PM »
No law sticks forever.
Why I am worried over in the other thread. Everyone keeps spouting 1st amendment, 1st amendment and all that jazz. The constitution is an obstacle, not a shield, to our politicians.

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline HabteSelassie

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Re: Supreme Court To Examine 'Ministerial Exemption' Case
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2012, 05:54:30 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

The constitution is an obstacle, not a shield, to our politicians.

PP

Philosophically, I agree completely I suppose it has always been this way since originally drafted, and I have always wondered considering all the inherent paradoxes and contradictions surrounding the history and evolution of the American Constitution how many Americans almost equate this legal document to be embedded with some kind of Divine Infallibility as they do the Scriptures in the Sola Scripture mentality.

The Constitution  has always been a paradox, and contains a written account of the evolution of the American ideal and identity, but we shouldn't exactly think the thing to be Divine.  Even in monarchies the power is always invested in the people, the Constitution just shifted the focus of political attention away from monarchs and invested the same Divine Right of Kings to the written documents themselves.  The failure of the Constitution is that it is like all human creations, subject and open to individual interpretation.



stay blessed,
habte selassie
"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Supreme Court To Examine 'Ministerial Exemption' Case
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2012, 10:47:55 PM »
  The failure of the Constitution is that it is like all human creations, subject and open to individual interpretation.

That's not a failure of the Constitution. That's the failure of people.
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Supreme Court To Examine 'Ministerial Exemption' Case
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2012, 02:35:41 PM »
Unanimous decision...wow.
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Offline HabteSelassie

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Re: Supreme Court To Examine 'Ministerial Exemption' Case
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2012, 02:38:49 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Unanimous decision...wow.

Not only unanimous, but there were two decisions written instead of the usual dissent.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10