For Orthonorm - Fatwa Against Pokémon Issued in Saudi Arabia - serious discussion

[orthonorm]

Hey, tell the geniuses at your company the next they want to find out nerds are the main consumers of Sci-Fi or even worse Fantasy to call me.

Ah, are you a nerd, or just an expert on them?

Observer of the obviously obvious.

[PeterTheAleut]

Hey, tell the geniuses at your company the next they want to find out nerds are the main consumers of Sci-Fi or even worse Fantasy to call me.

Ah, are you a nerd, or just an expert on them? At any rate, what was interesting to businesses is what kind of nerds our nerdy readers were—were they guys who live in their mothers' basements, doing nothing all day but playing videogames pirating stuff off the Internet and occasionally buying something with the money from their part-time job at the pet shop, or were they productive members of the middle classes? The latter, as it turns out. That is to say, they weren't wasting their productive time.

Orthonorm may be an expert on nerds, but I AM a nerd and am therefore qualified to tell you he's right.

[Andrew Crook]

Just for the record,

I've always seen the Saudi government as quite backwards and behind the times.  The same could be said for many other nations where there are more fanatics per square acre than there are the rest of us "moderate/normal folk".  This fatwa against Pokemon only reinforces my belief..

I was reading this with my friend, and he was telling me Jehovah's Witnesses would have similar issues with Pokemon.  I also have read Harry Potter, and Lord of the Rings -- I find them to be harmless entertainment as I don't take them seriously.  J.R.R. Tolkien and J.K. Rowling are both devouted Christians who struggled in their faith.  If you ever read Harry Potter, especially the last book (or the last movie) -- you would understand the religious imagery and symbolism.

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Bro Gebre Menfes Kiddus, I think you are taking this all way to personal, and starting to get way too defensive.  The folks are rightfully misunderstanding your unclear opinions regarding children's literature.  You have been taking it way to personal, all you had to say was, "Sorry guys, I don't like my kids reading Harry Potter" and left it at that and moved on to better discussions, instead you let your defensive reaction to defend your parenting get to you, when its nothing personal until you make it that way.  So let it go, these folks are just trying to understand you, but you are not really explaining yourself very well, so just quit while you are ahead.

In regards to literature in general, I would like to reiterate this point I made earlier which got lost in all the bickering..

 Novels and literature capture in subtle detail the full gamut, not just of the full range of the human experience, but also our contemporary realities.  This precisely why in all grades in public education, we expose them to literature, that they can experience for themselves the growth and learning we get from reading fiction, because to understand fiction is to understand the underlying reality it portrays.  Further, fiction gives kids an opportunity to ask real, deep questions about our societies, our cultures, our moralities, our histories, our realities that is safer and more mutually neutral than confronting these same kinds of issue in real life.  Novels can critique and explain reality in ways lectures simply can not. 
I believe in protecting but not sheltering children.  After all, no family is an island and kids are not stupid. We can't honestly expect to shelter them from the ills of our societies unless we literally shelter them, and that is not exactly healthy or even necessarily Christian (see John 17:16-18; Mark 16:15-16).  I mean no disrespect to parents out there, but we all need to be a bit honest with ourselves and have a bit of  a sense of humor about some things too.  If we shelter our kids from reading, learning, and experiencing certain things for themselves, we are also blocking some opportunities for spiritual growth, development, and maturation.  We can raise our kids righteously without having to keep them in a bubble.

 Me personally, I believe in being totally honest with kids and letting the cards fall where they fall, after all, kids are people too and their often some of the brightest people I meet and know


"You can't blame the youth of today, no and you can't fool them." Peter Tosh

stay blessed,
habte selassie

[JamesRottnek]

Foolish arguments are derived from fools.

Whoops, this may be an ad hominem.

[primuspilus]

Foolish arguments are derived from fools.

Whoops, this may be an ad hominem.

*wince*

[Aindriú]

THERE WAS A FIREFIGHT!

(NSFW - language/violence)

[Ionnis]

Foolish arguments are derived from fools.

Whoops, this may be an ad hominem.

 But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.

[JamesRottnek]

I am in danger of hell fire for many, many reasons.  Unfortunately, this may be the least of them.

[Hiwot]

Lord have mercy!

[Asteriktos]

I like to eat cheese on crackers.

[Jason.Wike]

If Pokemon teaches math, maybe I'll get my kids into it.  Seriously, have you seen the math they are teaching kids these days?

Math is math, what are they teaching?

[FatherGiryus]

Evolution of Math in US Schools

Teaching Math in 1959

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100.  His cost of production is 4/5 of the price.  What is his profit?
 
Teaching Math in 1969

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100.  His cost of production is 4/5 of the price, or $80.  What is his profit?

Teaching Math in 1979

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100.  His cost of production is $80.  Did he make a profit?
 
Teaching Math in 1989
 
A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100.  His cost of production is $80 and his profit is $20.  Your assignment: Underline the number 20.

Teaching Math in 1999
 
A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is selfish and inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the preservation of our woodlands.  He does this so he can make a profit of $20.  What do you think of his way of making a living?  Topic for class participation after answering the question:  How did the birds and squirrels feel as the logger destroyed their homes?  (There are no wrong answers, and if you feel like crying, it’s OK.)
 
Teaching Math in 2009

Un maderero vende un camión cargado de madera por $100.  Su coste de producción es de $80.  ¿Se obtienen beneficios?

If Pokemon teaches math, maybe I'll get my kids into it.  Seriously, have you seen the math they are teaching kids these days?

Math is math, what are they teaching?

[Aindriú]

Evolution of Math in US Schools

Teaching Math in 1959

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100.  His cost of production is 4/5 of the price.  What is his profit?
 
Teaching Math in 1969

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100.  His cost of production is 4/5 of the price, or $80.  What is his profit?

Teaching Math in 1979

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100.  His cost of production is $80.  Did he make a profit?
 
Teaching Math in 1989
 
A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100.  His cost of production is $80 and his profit is $20.  Your assignment: Underline the number 20.

Teaching Math in 1999
 
A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is selfish and inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the preservation of our woodlands.  He does this so he can make a profit of $20.  What do you think of his way of making a living?  Topic for class participation after answering the question:  How did the birds and squirrels feel as the logger destroyed their homes?  (There are no wrong answers, and if you feel like crying, it’s OK.)
 
Teaching Math in 2009

Un maderero vende un camión cargado de madera por $100.  Su coste de producción es de $80.  ¿Se obtienen beneficios?

If Pokemon teaches math, maybe I'll get my kids into it.  Seriously, have you seen the math they are teaching kids these days?

Math is math, what are they teaching?

lol

[Aindriú]

If Pokemon teaches math, maybe I'll get my kids into it.  Seriously, have you seen the math they are teaching kids these days?

Math is math, what are they teaching?

Less challenge.

Set the bar high and expect people to work for it, and understand there will be failure.

Not set the bar low enough everyone can pass, and when no one tries start to make rationalizations.

[dzheremi]

This fatwa will go well with the earlier Saudi fatwa against Mickey Mouse. I say more power to them. Maybe they'll reach a point where they're so busy issuing fatwas against imaginary things they'll leave actual human beings alone. I'm a dreamer, I know...

[FantaLimon]

This isn't Pokemon, but it's pretty engrossing and motivating: http://www.khanacademy.org/

I will say though that video and hobby games aren't all simple platform-jumpers.  Being a sort of bookworm myself, I particularly enjoyed historical wargames like the Total War series (through which I learned of the living Orthodox Church  ), and the probability-fests that are Magic: the Gathering and Warhammer 40,000.  All of these games deal with magic, war, politics, and... well it's hard to explain 40k but it's pretty dark.  Also, mathematical concepts like geometry, probability, and frequent addition and subtraction of larger numbers (what's 83 + 250 + 5 + 10 + 150 + 151 + 137 +...) used in the latter 2 games can help in math class.  The parent will also sharpen their math skills (-$100, -$33, -$57...).

[vamrat]

This isn't Pokemon, but it's pretty engrossing and motivating: http://www.khanacademy.org/

I will say though that video and hobby games aren't all simple platform-jumpers.  Being a sort of bookworm myself, I particularly enjoyed historical wargames like the Total War series (through which I learned of the living Orthodox Church  ), and the probability-fests that are Magic: the Gathering and Warhammer 40,000.  All of these games deal with magic, war, politics, and... well it's hard to explain 40k but it's pretty dark.  Also, mathematical concepts like geometry, probability, and frequent addition and subtraction of larger numbers (what's 83 + 250 + 5 + 10 + 150 + 151 + 137 +...) used in the latter 2 games can help in math class.  The parent will also sharpen their math skills (-$100, -$33, -$57...).

QFT.  Ever play Orks in 40k?  (- First Mortgage, - Second Mortgage, - Kidney...)

[Achronos]

LOL Father at the Math post!

[Iconodule]

This isn't Pokemon, but it's pretty engrossing and motivating: http://www.khanacademy.org/

I will say though that video and hobby games aren't all simple platform-jumpers.  Being a sort of bookworm myself, I particularly enjoyed historical wargames like the Total War series (through which I learned of the living Orthodox Church  ), and the probability-fests that are Magic: the Gathering and Warhammer 40,000.  All of these games deal with magic, war, politics, and... well it's hard to explain 40k but it's pretty dark.  Also, mathematical concepts like geometry, probability, and frequent addition and subtraction of larger numbers (what's 83 + 250 + 5 + 10 + 150 + 151 + 137 +...) used in the latter 2 games can help in math class.  The parent will also sharpen their math skills (-$100, -$33, -$57...).

QFT.  Ever play Orks in 40k?  (- First Mortgage, - Second Mortgage, - Kidney...)

I really hate these games. One time I was able to get one deck of Magic with my $10 weekly allowance and showed it to my friend. "Hey, check out this cool game!" Next day he shows up with 10 starter decks from his apparently $100 allowance and naturally crushes me repeatedly.

The one game that evened the score was Steve Jackson's Illuminati where it was $2 a deck.

[vamrat]

This isn't Pokemon, but it's pretty engrossing and motivating: http://www.khanacademy.org/

I will say though that video and hobby games aren't all simple platform-jumpers.  Being a sort of bookworm myself, I particularly enjoyed historical wargames like the Total War series (through which I learned of the living Orthodox Church  ), and the probability-fests that are Magic: the Gathering and Warhammer 40,000.  All of these games deal with magic, war, politics, and... well it's hard to explain 40k but it's pretty dark.  Also, mathematical concepts like geometry, probability, and frequent addition and subtraction of larger numbers (what's 83 + 250 + 5 + 10 + 150 + 151 + 137 +...) used in the latter 2 games can help in math class.  The parent will also sharpen their math skills (-$100, -$33, -$57...).

QFT.  Ever play Orks in 40k?  (- First Mortgage, - Second Mortgage, - Kidney...)

I really hate these games. One time I was able to get one deck of Magic with my $10 weekly allowance and showed it to my friend. "Hey, check out this cool game!" Next day he shows up with 10 starter decks from his apparently $100 allowance and naturally crushes me repeatedly.

The one game that evened the score was Steve Jackson's Illuminati where it was $2 a deck.

I only played Magic for a little while.  Everyone at the lunch table played it so I was at a buddy's house and a friend of his dad's had given him an entire box of magic cards so I had a guy at school build me a deck utilizing nothing but rats (this fellow was the sage of nerds and made the best decks).  Then he took his best deck against me and I won. 

I've played 40k since mid High School.  I have Space Marines but usually play Orks or Eldar.  Most of the models were bought well before the price hikes got egregious.  Much prefer Flames of War or Force on Force.  Force on Force can be the poor man's wargame, as long as you stay away from mechanized units.  My Cold War Soviet company is probably going to hit $100.  In 15mm, before the Technicals, I think I spent about $30 on the African militia.

[FatherGiryus]

I got into lead soldiers for a while, and started painting a whole set of Aurelian Roman legionnairies to get into a local gaming group.  But, it was too expensive and I found that I preferred to paint more than play.  With computer gaming, I wonder if they even make those lead figures.  I have no idea where my collection went.  I still enjoy the smell of lacquer thinner...

This isn't Pokemon, but it's pretty engrossing and motivating: http://www.khanacademy.org/

I will say though that video and hobby games aren't all simple platform-jumpers.  Being a sort of bookworm myself, I particularly enjoyed historical wargames like the Total War series (through which I learned of the living Orthodox Church  ), and the probability-fests that are Magic: the Gathering and Warhammer 40,000.  All of these games deal with magic, war, politics, and... well it's hard to explain 40k but it's pretty dark.  Also, mathematical concepts like geometry, probability, and frequent addition and subtraction of larger numbers (what's 83 + 250 + 5 + 10 + 150 + 151 + 137 +...) used in the latter 2 games can help in math class.  The parent will also sharpen their math skills (-$100, -$33, -$57...).

QFT.  Ever play Orks in 40k?  (- First Mortgage, - Second Mortgage, - Kidney...)

I really hate these games. One time I was able to get one deck of Magic with my $10 weekly allowance and showed it to my friend. "Hey, check out this cool game!" Next day he shows up with 10 starter decks from his apparently $100 allowance and naturally crushes me repeatedly.

The one game that evened the score was Steve Jackson's Illuminati where it was $2 a deck.

I only played Magic for a little while.  Everyone at the lunch table played it so I was at a buddy's house and a friend of his dad's had given him an entire box of magic cards so I had a guy at school build me a deck utilizing nothing but rats (this fellow was the sage of nerds and made the best decks).  Then he took his best deck against me and I won. 

I've played 40k since mid High School.  I have Space Marines but usually play Orks or Eldar.  Most of the models were bought well before the price hikes got egregious.  Much prefer Flames of War or Force on Force.  Force on Force can be the poor man's wargame, as long as you stay away from mechanized units.  My Cold War Soviet company is probably going to hit $100.  In 15mm, before the Technicals, I think I spent about $30 on the African militia.

[vamrat]

I got into lead soldiers for a while, and started painting a whole set of Aurelian Roman legionnairies to get into a local gaming group.  But, it was too expensive and I found that I preferred to paint more than play.  With computer gaming, I wonder if they even make those lead figures.  I have no idea where my collection went.  I still enjoy the smell of lacquer thinner...

This isn't Pokemon, but it's pretty engrossing and motivating: http://www.khanacademy.org/

I will say though that video and hobby games aren't all simple platform-jumpers.  Being a sort of bookworm myself, I particularly enjoyed historical wargames like the Total War series (through which I learned of the living Orthodox Church  ), and the probability-fests that are Magic: the Gathering and Warhammer 40,000.  All of these games deal with magic, war, politics, and... well it's hard to explain 40k but it's pretty dark.  Also, mathematical concepts like geometry, probability, and frequent addition and subtraction of larger numbers (what's 83 + 250 + 5 + 10 + 150 + 151 + 137 +...) used in the latter 2 games can help in math class.  The parent will also sharpen their math skills (-$100, -$33, -$57...).

QFT.  Ever play Orks in 40k?  (- First Mortgage, - Second Mortgage, - Kidney...)

I really hate these games. One time I was able to get one deck of Magic with my $10 weekly allowance and showed it to my friend. "Hey, check out this cool game!" Next day he shows up with 10 starter decks from his apparently $100 allowance and naturally crushes me repeatedly.

The one game that evened the score was Steve Jackson's Illuminati where it was $2 a deck.

I only played Magic for a little while.  Everyone at the lunch table played it so I was at a buddy's house and a friend of his dad's had given him an entire box of magic cards so I had a guy at school build me a deck utilizing nothing but rats (this fellow was the sage of nerds and made the best decks).  Then he took his best deck against me and I won. 

I've played 40k since mid High School.  I have Space Marines but usually play Orks or Eldar.  Most of the models were bought well before the price hikes got egregious.  Much prefer Flames of War or Force on Force.  Force on Force can be the poor man's wargame, as long as you stay away from mechanized units.  My Cold War Soviet company is probably going to hit $100.  In 15mm, before the Technicals, I think I spent about $30 on the African militia.

Oh yeah, there are plenty of companies that make metal/plastic/resin figures still in numerous scales.  If anything, I would say that the number of companies that produce miniatures has expanded.  Probably from about any war you can think of too.  Niche companies make models for almost every war imaginable from Sumerians to the current Iraq War.

[orthonorm]

The one game that evened the score was Steve Jackson's Illuminati where it was $2 a deck.

I had every possible card, odd print etc. of Steve Jackson's stuff x 6. INWO was HUGE where I was, friendwise. That other stuff not so much. Rich kid silly stuff. And my buddy did some work on GURPS crap, so we had an in for the pointless promotional crap.

We all played with you can make any card whatever to rule out the buying advantage. Really none of spent much money on the game cause there was shop with a huge inventory that decided to go full clearance after selling almost none after a few months.

Hence my playing the cards here from time to time.

I hate owning or collecting stuff. I do wish I still had at least one of the sets.

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