Author Topic: For Orthonorm - Fatwa Against Pokémon Issued in Saudi Arabia - serious discussion  (Read 4667 times)

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Offline Riddikulus

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Christian fundamentalists have been there, done similar. Years ago they were ranting against Pokemon and accusing it of being satanic; banning it from their schools. No different to their rants against Harry Potter, of course. The Saudis just seem to be behind the times.
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Offline FormerReformer

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Christian fundamentalists have been there, done similar. Years ago they were ranting against Pokemon and accusing it of being satanic; banning it from their schools. No different to their rants against Harry Potter, of course. The Saudis just seem to be behind the times.

Christian fundamentalists will rant against any popular children's entertainment. I remember the '80s, not being allowed to watch any cartoon after it became popular enough to merit it's own toy line. You couldn't watch Dungeons and Dragons because it was supposedly created by witches, you couldn't watch He-Man because five year olds rudely interrupted their elders during the blessing after the dad started off with "God, Master of the Universe" "God's not 'Master of the Universe', He-Man is!", you couldn't watch Star Wars because the Force is New Age propaganda, you couldn't watch GI Joe because fundies believed creating a clone from the DNA samples of the great evil dictators of old was a type of necromancy (as opposed to being merely bad science), you couldn't watch the Smurfs because the villain somehow promoted Satanism, and you couldn't watch the Transformers because.... I forget why, I guess God just hates cool talking robots.
"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

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Offline Riddikulus

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^^ :laugh: What silly critters homo sapiens are!
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Offline IsmiLiora

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God just hates cool talking robots.
GOD DOES NOT HATE OPTIMUS PRIME.
She's touring the facility/and picking up slack.
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I don't allow my children to play with Pokemon cards or read Harry Potter books. I guess that makes me a raving fundamentalist.  ::)



Selam
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Offline Ionnis

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I don't allow my children to play with Pokemon cards or read Harry Potter books. I guess that makes me a raving fundamentalist.  ::)



Selam

I get the Harry Potter thing (it's my guilty pleasure) but I don't get why Pokemon is a bad thing.  Then again I no nothing of Pokemon. I have self-respect, afterall.  [Not really, I used to play with pogs.] :)
« Last Edit: September 25, 2011, 11:51:45 PM by Ionnis »
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I don't allow my children to play with Pokemon cards or read Harry Potter books. I guess that makes me a raving fundamentalist.  ::)



Selam

It all depends on the reason.... If you think Pokemon are satanic, then yes. If you think they are a horrible waste of time and money and brain power then you're a caring parent trying to instill actual cultural and aesthetic values.

As for Harry Potter- that's just good parenting regardless. I hated those books. The movies were okay.
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Offline FatherGiryus

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My fundy cousins told me that my D&D game was going to get me eternal damnation, and through their influences I avoided Christianity for an additional 10+ years.

If only I hadn't thrown away my box set... I could have paid off my house for what that was worth now.


Christian fundamentalists have been there, done similar. Years ago they were ranting against Pokemon and accusing it of being satanic; banning it from their schools. No different to their rants against Harry Potter, of course. The Saudis just seem to be behind the times.

Christian fundamentalists will rant against any popular children's entertainment. I remember the '80s, not being allowed to watch any cartoon after it became popular enough to merit it's own toy line. You couldn't watch Dungeons and Dragons because it was supposedly created by witches, you couldn't watch He-Man because five year olds rudely interrupted their elders during the blessing after the dad started off with "God, Master of the Universe" "God's not 'Master of the Universe', He-Man is!", you couldn't watch Star Wars because the Force is New Age propaganda, you couldn't watch GI Joe because fundies believed creating a clone from the DNA samples of the great evil dictators of old was a type of necromancy (as opposed to being merely bad science), you couldn't watch the Smurfs because the villain somehow promoted Satanism, and you couldn't watch the Transformers because.... I forget why, I guess God just hates cool talking robots.
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Offline FatherGiryus

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If Pokemon teaches math, maybe I'll get my kids into it.  Seriously, have you seen the math they are teaching kids these days?

I don't allow my children to play with Pokemon cards or read Harry Potter books. I guess that makes me a raving fundamentalist.  ::)



Selam

It all depends on the reason.... If you think Pokemon are satanic, then yes. If you think they are a horrible waste of time and money and brain power then you're a caring parent trying to instill actual cultural and aesthetic values.

As for Harry Potter- that's just good parenting regardless. I hated those books. The movies were okay.
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Offline JamesRottnek

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I don't allow my children to play with Pokemon cards or read Harry Potter books. I guess that makes me a raving fundamentalist.  ::)



Selam

Why do you oppose them?  Some reasons would, indeed, make you a raving fundamentalist.  Others would make you ill-informed.  A few would make you a paranoid person.  Still others would simply highlight your particular parenting style.
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Offline Riddikulus

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I don't allow my children to play with Pokemon cards or read Harry Potter books. I guess that makes me a raving fundamentalist.  ::)



Selam

There's a difference, you know, between making a choice for yourself and your children, and insisting that everyone else follow your lead. As a parent, you have every right to do just that. But do you rant at everyong else, attempting to prevent them or their children from playing with Pokemon cards or reading HP books? If you do, I suspect you might be a raving fundamentalist.  Whatever the case, I still love you, Gebre. :angel:
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 02:31:21 AM by Riddikulus »
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Offline Riddikulus

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I don't allow my children to play with Pokemon cards or read Harry Potter books. I guess that makes me a raving fundamentalist.  ::)



Selam

It all depends on the reason.... If you think Pokemon are satanic, then yes. If you think they are a horrible waste of time and money and brain power then you're a caring parent trying to instill actual cultural and aesthetic values.

As for Harry Potter- that's just good parenting regardless. I hated those books. The movies were okay.

This is personal opinion, not Fatwa! (I hope!)  ;)
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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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I have a few basic reasons for what I allow my children to be exposed to and what I prohibit them from indulging in. I try to encourage entertainment and activities that will contribute to the cultivation of their spiritual, mental, and physical health. There is an abundance of wonderful literature - both Christian and non-Christian - that will stimulate their imagination, creativity, and promote positive values that are very much in line with an Orthodox Christian worldview. There are also plenty of board games and other amusements that are not tainted with subversive or overt messages and agendas which conflict with an Orthodox Christian worldview.

Harry Potter clearly glorifies sorcery, and sorcery is condemned without equivocation by the Church. I don't really know enough about Pokemon to say whether or not it is demonic; but since there are questions about it, I choose to err on the side of caution. I can't prove that demons operate through Ouija boards either, but I'm not gonna let my children play with Ouija boards just to prove that I'm not a fundamentalist.

To be honest, I think most people today are too easily satisfied. Do we really think that our children will be wiser, healthier, and better suited for the spiritual challenges of life by reading Harry Potter and playing with Pokemon cards rather than reading The Chronicles of Narnia and playing Chess?

But hey, that's just the way I choose to raise my own children. We've got a long way to go before they're out and on their own, but so far whatever my wife and I are doing seems to be working out pretty well. But please pray for us. The battle ain't over yet!


Selam  
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 03:17:02 AM by Gebre Menfes Kidus »
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Harry Potter clearly glorifies sorcery,
Have you ever read Harry Potter?
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 03:45:24 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Um, Gebre, you do realize that the Chronicles of Narnia has massive pagan influence, right?
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Offline Riddikulus

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I have a few basic reasons for what I allow my children to be exposed to and what I prohibit them from indulging in. I try to encourage entertainment and activities that will contribute to the cultivation of their spiritual, mental, and physical health. There is an abundance of wonderful literature - both Christian and non-Christian - that will stimulate their imagination, creativity, and promote positive values that are very much in line with an Orthodox Christian worldview. There are also plenty of board games and other amusements that are not tainted with subversive or overt messages and agendas which conflict with an Orthodox Christian worldview.

Harry Potter clearly glorifies sorcery, and sorcery is condemned without equivocation by the Church. I don't really know enough about Pokemon to say whether or not it is demonic; but since there are questions about it, I choose to err on the side of caution. I can't prove that demons operate through Ouija boards either, but I'm not gonna let my children play with Ouija boards just to prove that I'm not a fundamentalist.

To be honest, I think most people today are too easily satisfied. Do we really think that our children will be wiser, healthier, and better suited for the spiritual challenges of life by reading Harry Potter and playing with Pokemon cards rather than reading The Chronicles of Narnia and playing Chess?

But hey, that's just the way I choose to raise my own children. We've got a long way to go before they're out and on their own, but so far whatever my wife and I are doing seems to be working out pretty well. But please pray for us. The battle ain't over yet!


Selam  

If you see HP as glorifying sorcery, then it is logical that you would follow the lead of your conscience; avoid it and have your children avoid it. What parent would willingly subject their children to what they felt was evil? However, for those parents who don't see HP as glorifying sorcery, don't even see the slightest correlation between fictional and real life sorcery, only a fundamentalist would feel that such a parent is compelled to follow such a decision; for themselves or their children.

As I said before, what a person does as far as their own choices or for their children is their business; their right. That's not what makes a person a raving fundamentalist in my book. What makes a person a raving fundamentalist is the fact that they can't let others make a conscience call for themselves; that they insist that everyone see things their way.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 04:11:26 AM by Riddikulus »
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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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I have a few basic reasons for what I allow my children to be exposed to and what I prohibit them from indulging in. I try to encourage entertainment and activities that will contribute to the cultivation of their spiritual, mental, and physical health. There is an abundance of wonderful literature - both Christian and non-Christian - that will stimulate their imagination, creativity, and promote positive values that are very much in line with an Orthodox Christian worldview. There are also plenty of board games and other amusements that are not tainted with subversive or overt messages and agendas which conflict with an Orthodox Christian worldview.

Harry Potter clearly glorifies sorcery, and sorcery is condemned without equivocation by the Church. I don't really know enough about Pokemon to say whether or not it is demonic; but since there are questions about it, I choose to err on the side of caution. I can't prove that demons operate through Ouija boards either, but I'm not gonna let my children play with Ouija boards just to prove that I'm not a fundamentalist.

To be honest, I think most people today are too easily satisfied. Do we really think that our children will be wiser, healthier, and better suited for the spiritual challenges of life by reading Harry Potter and playing with Pokemon cards rather than reading The Chronicles of Narnia and playing Chess?

But hey, that's just the way I choose to raise my own children. We've got a long way to go before they're out and on their own, but so far whatever my wife and I are doing seems to be working out pretty well. But please pray for us. The battle ain't over yet!


Selam  

If you see HP as glorifying sorcery, then it is logical that you would follow the lead of your conscience; avoid it and have your children avoid it. What parent would willingly subject their children to what they felt was evil? However, for those parents who don't see HP as glorifying sorcery, don't even see the slightest correlation between fictional and real life sorcery, only a fundamentalist would feel that such a parent is compelled to follow such a decision; for themselves or their children.

As I said before, what a person does as far as their own choices or for their children is their business; their right. That's not what makes a person a raving fundamentalist in my book. What makes a person a raving fundamentalist is the fact that they can't let others make a conscience call for themselves; that they insist that everyone see things their way.


Last time I checked, I have neither the power, the authority, nor the desire to force other people to raise their children the same way I raise mine. All I can do is promote what I believe and leave the rest to God.

As for your definition of a fundamentalist: "The fact that they can't let others make a conscience call for themselves; that they insist that everyone see things their way." You may want to be careful about this, because your statement is self-contradictory (i.e. you want everyone see things your way in regard to this issue) and it also condemns Moses, the Prophets, the Teachings of the Church, and many Saints and Martyrs who gave their lives for their uncompromising defense of Truth.

The commandments of God, "Thou shall" and "Thou shalt not" is quite the antithesis of the philosophy of Anton Lavey, "Do what thou wilt." To the worldly mind, it appears that there is much more freedom in "Do what thou wilt;" but for the Christian we understand that true freedom is found in obedience to the will of God. We can follow our conscience or we can follow Christ. Hopefully we are allowing Christ to shape and mold our conscience so that we can discern what is spiritually profitable from that which is spiritually detrimental.

"Lord have mercy on us."


Selam
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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Harry Potter clearly glorifies sorcery,
Have you ever read Harry Potter?


No. Nor have I played with Ouija boards, visited fortune tellers, tried heroin, or read Lady Chatterley's Lover. But I've certainly done plenty of other things that I wish I hadn't. I don't need to analyze the contents of feces to know that it's feces. (Forgive my bluntness.)



Selam



Profanity edited out and replaced with something more appropriate  -PtA

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« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 01:45:51 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Riddikulus

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Sorry for the snowball effect, everyone. I'll keep my fingers from typing in future.  :laugh:
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Offline orthonorm

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Sorry for the snowball effect, everyone. I'll keep my fingers from typing in future.  :laugh:

No worries.

It's internetz. It's bound to happen.

It's kinda cool though. A ridiculous story we can laugh at triggers a "serious" discussion which creates ridiculous posts we can laugh at.

I think the dark occult work The Lion King called it the Circle of Laugh or something.



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Offline Riddikulus

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Sorry for the snowball effect, everyone. I'll keep my fingers from typing in future.  :laugh:

No worries.

It's internetz. It's bound to happen.

It's kinda cool though. A ridiculous story we can laugh at triggers a "serious" discussion which creates ridiculous posts we can laugh at.

I think the dark occult work The Lion King called it the Circle of Laugh or something.





 :laugh:
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Offline minasoliman

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I don't allow my children to play with Pokemon cards or read Harry Potter books. I guess that makes me a raving fundamentalist.  ::)



Selam

Looney Tunes is also sinful to watch as well, and quite blasphemous, since it teaches kids that bunnies, pigs, and ducks can talk.
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Looney Tunes is also sinful to watch as well, and quite blasphemous, since it teaches kids that bunnies, pigs, and ducks can talk.

The Bible says that snakes and donkeys can talk.

Offline orthonorm

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I don't allow my children to play with Pokemon cards or read Harry Potter books. I guess that makes me a raving fundamentalist.  ::)



Selam

Looney Tunes is also sinful to watch as well, and quite blasphemous, since it teaches kids that bunnies, pigs, and ducks can talk.

 :police:

minasoliman,

I like your style (And your content, but for my money style comes first on the internet). And I ain't usually gonna say much about OO, cause I don't know much about EO much less OO, you know.

But I know Gebre belongs to the Ethiopian Church.

And they use Ge'ez, which from my limited understanding from reading his blog was the language Adam and Even used to speak with God, the animals, and each other.

So really, Looney Tunes depicts in a imperfect way how Creation might have been before the Fall.

Again, this is just what I have gathered from my readings of Gebre's blog and memories of cartoons.

But I'll let Gebre speak for himself or whatever animal knows the truth around this.
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Offline minasoliman

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Hmmmm....I suppose it's okay for non-Kosher animals to talk.  But ducks?  HERESY!!!
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Harry Potter clearly glorifies sorcery,
Have you ever read Harry Potter?


No. Nor have I played with Ouija boards, visited fortune tellers, tried heroin, or read Lady Chatterley's Lover. But I've certainly done plenty of other things that I wish I hadn't. I don't need to analyze the contents of feces to know that it's feces. (Forgive my bluntness.)
That you would equate a book you've never read with Ouija boards, fortune tellers, or heroin says a lot about your points of view, and it's not very good. Who told you Harry Potter was dung? Why do you believe the naysayers when you're not even familiar with what they're criticizing? I had a friend told me she wouldn't read Lord of the Rings because it "glorifies sorcery", even though the imagery painted in the trilogy is quite Christian. I suspect Harry Potter may be the same, yet you would never know because you prefer to believe what others tell you rather than crack open the books and see for yourself.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 01:56:13 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline IsmiLiora

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It's at times like this that I thank God that I was at a church that did an entire study dedicated to The Davinci Code and actually encouraged us to read it so that we knew what we were talking about (I did).

I think having discussions with our children about these things may be more effective than just outright banning something like that. Although I don't know what discussion I would want to have in regards to Pokemon  ??? besides, "If you play those cards for more than pennies or quarters, I will ground you," and "Do not throw balls in the house and expect Pikachu to come out of them."

But like PtA said, Harry Potter also uses a lot of good vs. evil and arguably Christian imagery. I wouldn't send my kid to Hogwarts camp or whatever, but I wouldn't see them reading it or enjoying the movies as a bad thing unless they believed that it was true.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 02:11:01 PM by IsmiLiora »
She's touring the facility/and picking up slack.
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Offline vamrat

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Harry Potter clearly glorifies sorcery,
Have you ever read Harry Potter?


No. Nor have I played with Ouija boards, visited fortune tellers, tried heroin, or read Lady Chatterley's Lover. But I've certainly done plenty of other things that I wish I hadn't. I don't need to analyze the contents of feces to know that it's feces. (Forgive my bluntness.)
That you would equate a book you've never read with Ouija boards, fortune tellers, or heroin says a lot about your points of view, and it's not very good. Who told you Harry Potter was dung? Why do you believe the naysayers when you're not even familiar with what they're criticizing? I had a friend told me she wouldn't read Lord of the Rings because it "glorifies sorcery", even though the imagery painted in the trilogy is quite Christian. I suspect Harry Potter may be the same, yet you would never know because you prefer to believe what others tell you rather than crack open the books and see for yourself.

I'm not sure how deep you would need to get into the books before figuring out that it has a thing or two to do with sorcery.  I never read the books but I've seen all of the movies except the most recent one.  I figured out it was about sorcery pretty soon into the first one.  That said, it is a pretty good story, and I can separate the evils of sorcery from the rest of the story.  There are a lot of great films out there with novel story ideas and great messages that some parents won't want their children seeing.  For instance, I love the film A Clockwork Orange, but I don't think any child younger than 12 should ever watch it.

BTW, HP also seems to have a soft spot for corrective rape as well.  Remember when that mean old crone gets drug off into the woods by centaurs where she meets some awful fate that doesn't involve death?  Well, if you remember back to your Greek mythology, you'll know what centaurs are famous for...


But all the same, Gebre, Pokemon ain't all that bad.  I'm sure that being a good parent you'd have your kids play Bulbasaurs, unlike those heretics Ismi and Akimori with their Squirtle and Charmander hogwash!   ;D
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

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Well, I think we can agree that there are a lot better books outside of HP, that are probably much more worth the read, regardless of sorcery or whatevz. ;) Frankly, I would not buy HP for my children unless they asked, but that's because I grew up obsessed with historical fiction anyway and had no time for fantasy (outside of utopian fiction). I had to read the first one in college and it was just okay. I could see why many children find it fascinating, but I didn't really feel compelled to keep reading.

And so YOU are a Bulbasaur chooser...actually, he was my #2, with Charmander coming in at a far third. :)
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Offline HabteSelassie

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Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Zionism accusations aside, I'm glad somebody finally stood up to these Pokemon folks, its about time ;)


Quote
And they use Ge'ez, which from my limited understanding from reading his blog was the language Adam and Even used to speak with God, the animals, and each other.

I just wanted to address this because I thought the sarcasm was unwarranted against the sacred Liturgical language of our Ethiopian Orthodox faith, we honor this language dearly, and prefer our most sincere chants and prayers in this mother tongue of the whole world.  Scoff if you'd like, but what Gebre Menfes Kiddus' blog mentions is not religious idealism of the Ethiopian fathers, it is a matter of linguistic fact.  Ge'ez, is by some ethnolinguists considered to be the proto-language of all of Semitic Africa and the Middle East.  It shares many cognates and grammatical structures universally with many regional Semitic dialects.

It used to be taught that Semitic language and culture cross into East Africa from the Arabian peninsula, now  a combination of history, anthropology, and archaeology have changed the game, and the evidence now more strongly suggests that Ethiopia in particular is the cradle of Semitic civilization and language, with a proto-Ge'ez being the proto-languge and mother tongue of all Semitic folks.  When this idea is combined with the evidence which also concurs to suggest that human evolution originates in Ethiopia as well (a combination of archaeology, DNA studies, and ethnolinguistics) we can see some support for Gebre Menfes Kiddus'  The Mitochondrial Eve either lived in Ethiopia or South Africa, but there is increasingly stronger evidence to suggest Ethiopia.  So Adam and Eve very well may have lived in Ethiopia, and the ethnolinguistic evidence suggests they may have spoken a proto-form of related to Ge'ez.  Either way, Ge'ez just might be the mother tongue of the Semitic languages, so respect is due, Adam and Eve speculation aside :)



stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 02:39:46 PM by HabteSelassie »
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Offline vamrat

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Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Zionism accusations aside, I'm glad somebody finally stood up to these Pokemon folks, its about time ;)

stay blessed,
habte selassie

That's it.  I'm going wrap you in vines and electrocute you with my mouse...wait, that sounds kinda bad.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 02:28:03 PM by vamrat »
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline JamesRottnek

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It's at times like this that I thank God that I was at a church that did an entire study dedicated to The Davinci Code and actually encouraged us to read it so that we knew what we were talking about (I did).

I think having discussions with our children about these things may be more effective than just outright banning something like that. Although I don't know what discussion I would want to have in regards to Pokemon  ??? besides, "If you play those cards for more than pennies or quarters, I will ground you," and "Do not throw balls in the house and expect Pikachu to come out of them."

But like PtA said, Harry Potter also uses a lot of good vs. evil and arguably Christian imagery. I wouldn't send my kid to Hogwarts camp or whatever, but I wouldn't see them reading it or enjoying the movies as a bad thing unless they believed that it was true.

Ismi, Ismi, Ismi...I am disappointed in you.  Don't you know Pikachu always stayed OUTSIDE his Pokeball?
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Well, I think we can agree that there are a lot better books outside of HP, that are probably much more worth the read, regardless of sorcery or whatevz. ;) Frankly, I would not buy HP for my children unless they asked, but that's because I grew up obsessed with historical fiction anyway and had no time for fantasy (outside of utopian fiction). I had to read the first one in college and it was just okay. I could see why many children find it fascinating, but I didn't really feel compelled to keep reading.

And so YOU are a Bulbasaur chooser...actually, he was my #2, with Charmander coming in at a far third. :)

You are all wrong AGAIN!  It goes Squirtle, Charmander, Bulbasaur - DUH!
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Offline Alpo

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...rather than reading The Chronicles of Narnia and playing Chess? ...

Why Narnia is better than Potter?

What about Lord of the Rings?
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 03:59:29 PM by Alpo »

Offline minasoliman

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The Chronicles of Narnia also has sorcery in it.  A magical wardrobe, the good magic of Aslan against the bad magic of the evil witch, the completely non-Kosher half horse/half man characters, a talking lion that brings salvation...

And don't get me started with chess.  You're encouraging violence in the most sneaky and diabolical ways.  Rather than trying to corner the King to kill it, why can't we teach our children to settle our differences in a polite manner without war and death and destruction!  Hitler, Stalin, and Qadafi loved chess; do you want to be like Hitler, Stalin, and Qadafi?
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 04:21:07 PM by minasoliman »
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Offline primuspilus

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Time for the fundies to have a coronary




The triune terror...socio-obama winki.

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Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Harry Potter clearly glorifies sorcery,
Have you ever read Harry Potter?


No. Nor have I played with Ouija boards, visited fortune tellers, tried heroin, or read Lady Chatterley's Lover. But I've certainly done plenty of other things that I wish I hadn't. I don't need to analyze the contents of feces to know that it's feces. (Forgive my bluntness.)
That you would equate a book you've never read with Ouija boards, fortune tellers, or heroin says a lot about your points of view, and it's not very good. Who told you Harry Potter was dung? Why do you believe the naysayers when you're not even familiar with what they're criticizing? I had a friend told me she wouldn't read Lord of the Rings because it "glorifies sorcery", even though the imagery painted in the trilogy is quite Christian. I suspect Harry Potter may be the same, yet you would never know because you prefer to believe what others tell you rather than crack open the books and see for yourself.

That's the take of this Orthodox Christian: http://www.frederica.com/writings/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2.html




Offline orthonorm

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sacred Liturgical language

Ain't no such thing.

Mock English all you want.

My preacher back in the day said God spoke the literal words of KJV. Until that time, the Bible had yet to be perfected.

Make hay of that all you want.

Whether something is warranted or not is another thing. 99% or more of what happens, ain't.

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Offline Riddikulus

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Harry Potter clearly glorifies sorcery,
Have you ever read Harry Potter?


No. Nor have I played with Ouija boards, visited fortune tellers, tried heroin, or read Lady Chatterley's Lover. But I've certainly done plenty of other things that I wish I hadn't. I don't need to analyze the contents of feces to know that it's feces. (Forgive my bluntness.)
That you would equate a book you've never read with Ouija boards, fortune tellers, or heroin says a lot about your points of view, and it's not very good. Who told you Harry Potter was dung? Why do you believe the naysayers when you're not even familiar with what they're criticizing? I had a friend told me she wouldn't read Lord of the Rings because it "glorifies sorcery", even though the imagery painted in the trilogy is quite Christian. I suspect Harry Potter may be the same, yet you would never know because you prefer to believe what others tell you rather than crack open the books and see for yourself.

That's the take of this Orthodox Christian: http://www.frederica.com/writings/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2.html





The author seems pretty convinced that she wrote them with Christian imagry and themes.

HOLLYWOOD — It deals extensively with souls — about keeping them whole and the evil required to split them in two. After one hero falls beyond the veil of life, his whispers are still heard. It starts with the premise that love can save you from death and ends with a proclamation that a sacrifice in the name of love can bring you back from it.

Harry Potter is followed by house-elves and goblins — not disciples — but for the sharp-eyed reader, the biblical parallels are striking. Author J.K. Rowling's "Harry Potter" books have always, in fact, dealt explicitly with religious themes and questions, but until "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows," they had never quoted any specific religion.


Continued at http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1572107/jk-rowling-talks-about-christian-imagery.jhtml



Excerpt of article truncated to just the first two paragraphs to make compliant with this rule on quoting of articles:

Quote
* Quoting Other Articles, Websites, etc. --  When linking articles, news stories, etc., please only copy the first paragraph or at most two as an intro text, with a link to the original, so we can obviate any accusations of exceeding "fair use" allowances in terms of copyright.
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=rules

- PtA
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 06:48:41 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline FatherGiryus

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I always thought it was fairly obvious that Rowling wasn't trying to undermine Christianity any more than Tolkein or Lewis ever did.  She maintained a pretty hard line with morality throughout the books and really excuses no evil.   In the end, it isn't the magic that is central, but the morality of the characters: the magically-stronger wizards are ultimately defeated by weaker-magical figures with robust morality.


The author seems pretty convinced that she wrote them with Christian imagry and themes.

HOLLYWOOD — It deals extensively with souls — about keeping them whole and the evil required to split them in two. After one hero falls beyond the veil of life, his whispers are still heard. It starts with the premise that love can save you from death and ends with a proclamation that a sacrifice in the name of love can bring you back from it.

Harry Potter is followed by house-elves and goblins — not disciples — but for the sharp-eyed reader, the biblical parallels are striking. Author J.K. Rowling's "Harry Potter" books have always, in fact, dealt explicitly with religious themes and questions, but until "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows," they had never quoted any specific religion.

(SPOILER ALERT! The rest of this story discusses the conclusion of "Deathly Hallows.")

That was the plan from the start, Rowling told reporters during a press conference at the beginning of her Open Book Tour on Monday. It wasn't because she was afraid of inserting religion into a children's story. Rather, she was afraid that introducing religion (specifically Christianity) would give too much away to fans who might then see the parallels.

"To me [the religious parallels have] always been obvious," she said. "But I never wanted to talk too openly about it because I thought it might show people who just wanted the story where we were going."


Indeed, at its most simplistic, Harry's final tale can in some respects be boiled down to a resurrection story, with Harry venturing to a heavenly way station of sorts after getting hit with a killing curse in Chapter 35, only to shortly return. (Read how Rowling revealed the characters' fates to the "Harry Potter" movies' stars here.)

But if she was worried about tipping her hand narratively in the earlier books, she clearly wasn't by the time Harry visits his parents' graves in Chapter 16 of "Deathly Hallows," titled "Godric's Hollow." On his parents' tombstone he reads the quote "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death," while on another tombstone (that of Dumbledore's mother and sister) he reads, "Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

While Rowling said that "Hogwarts is a multifaith school," these quotes, of course, are distinctly Christian. The second is a direct quote of Jesus from Matthew 6:19, the first from 1 Corinthians 15:26. As Hermione tells Harry shortly after he sees the graves, his parents' message means "living beyond death. Living after death." It is one of the central foundations of resurrection theology.


Continued at http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1572107/jk-rowling-talks-about-christian-imagery.jhtml

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Offline Justin Kissel

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I don't allow my children to play with Pokemon cards or read Harry Potter books. I guess that makes me a raving fundamentalist.  ::)



Selam

Looney Tunes is also sinful to watch as well, and quite blasphemous, since it teaches kids that bunnies, pigs, and ducks can talk.

Not to mention the violence... my God, the violence...
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Offline Riddikulus

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I always thought it was fairly obvious that Rowling wasn't trying to undermine Christianity any more than Tolkein or Lewis ever did.  She maintained a pretty hard line with morality throughout the books and really excuses no evil.   In the end, it isn't the magic that is central, but the morality of the characters: the magically-stronger wizards are ultimately defeated by weaker-magical figures with robust morality.


Indeed. Well said, FatherGiryus.

Right from cracking open the first book, it struck me as odd that there were any Christians decrying the books; especially amongst those who were avid fans of Tolkien and Lewis. A lot of detractors, of course, simply haven't read HP and seem to have responded due to their own personal aversion to a magical setting. And, it's not that I don't understand the caution. People have every right to be cautious. It's just that I don't understand such strong opposition to something of which they were essentially ignorant.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. We homo sapiens are odd critters. :-[
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 06:42:32 PM by Riddikulus »
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Offline HabteSelassie

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Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


 Novels and literature capture in subtle detail the full gamut, not just of the full range of the human experience, but also our contemporary realities.  This precisely why in all grades in public education, we expose them to literature, that they can experience for themselves the growth and learning we get from reading fiction, because to understand fiction is to understand the underlying reality it portrays.  Further, fiction gives kids an opportunity to ask real, deep questions about our societies, our cultures, our moralities, our histories, our realities that is safer and more mutually neutral than confronting these same kinds of issue in real life.  Novels can critique and explain reality in ways lectures simply can not. 
I believe in protecting but not sheltering children.  After all, no family is an island and kids are not stupid. We can't honestly expect to shelter them from the ills of our societies unless we literally shelter them, and that is not exactly healthy or even necessarily Christian (see John 17:16-18; Mark 16:15-16).  I mean no disrespect to parents out there, but we all need to be a bit honest with ourselves and have a bit of  a sense of humor about some things too.  If we shelter our kids from reading, learning, and experiencing certain things for themselves, we are also blocking some opportunities for spiritual growth, development, and maturation.  We can raise our kids righteously without having to keep them in a bubble.

This is also not to accuse folks of anything or directed at any posters here specifically, rather these are just my general thoughts regarding children's exposure to certain kinds of literature and censorship around children in general.  Me personally, I believe in being totally honest with kids and letting the cards fall where they fall, after all, kids are people too and their often some of the brightest people I meet and know ;)


"You can't blame the youth of today, no and you can't fool them." Peter Tosh

stay blessed,
habte selassie



"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

Offline NicholasMyra

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Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Quote
And they use Ge'ez, which from my limited understanding from reading his blog was the language Adam and Even used to speak with God, the animals, and each other.

I just wanted to address this because I thought the sarcasm was unwarranted against the sacred Liturgical language of our Ethiopian Orthodox faith
Habte, Gebre actually claims exactly what Jason said he does.

now  a combination of history, anthropology, and archaeology have changed the game, and the evidence now more strongly suggests that Ethiopia in particular is the cradle of Semitic civilization and language, with a proto-Ge'ez being the proto-languge and mother tongue of all Semitic folks. 
Source?
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Ουκ ελαττωθήσονται παντός αγαθού

Offline Riddikulus

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Excerpt of article truncated to just the first two paragraphs to make compliant with this rule on quoting of articles:

Quote
* Quoting Other Articles, Websites, etc. --  When linking articles, news stories, etc., please only copy the first paragraph or at most two as an intro text, with a link to the original, so we can obviate any accusations of exceeding "fair use" allowances in terms of copyright.
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=rules

- PtA

My apologies, PtA. I missed that one.  :-[
I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
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