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Author Topic: Is Archbishop Demetrios Giving Benediction at GOP Convention?  (Read 3254 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2012, 03:42:59 PM »


I found a transcript of the benediction (saves me time of typing it out!) here:

Not a single "In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit"?  Shocked

For some crazy reason I remember something about not sharing the mystery of the Trinity with those outside the church. Anyone else know what I am talking about? We preach Christ crucified, not the Trinity, the Trinity is reveled once you believe in Christ.

Well, Christ was also neither mentioned nor referred to, nor was Jesus by name. The "Lord" was addressed, but anyone could be addressed as such.

Prayers should be said in a befitting manner, and not with the goal of pleasing man or appeasing the heterodox. Is that too much to expect?
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« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2012, 03:54:04 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


I found a transcript of the benediction (saves me time of typing it out!) here:

Not a single "In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit"?  Shocked

For some crazy reason I remember something about not sharing the mystery of the Trinity with those outside the church. Anyone else know what I am talking about? We preach Christ crucified, not the Trinity, the Trinity is reveled once you believe in Christ.

Well, Christ was also neither mentioned nor referred to, nor was Jesus by name. The "Lord" was addressed, but anyone could be addressed as such.

Prayers should be said in a befitting manner, and not with the goal of pleasing man or appeasing the heterodox. Is that too much to expect?

Who are you or we to suggest that whenever  or however a revered bishop of the Church prayers that it is not in a befitting manner to our Lord?

Leave it to the OC.net forum community to find nothing but fault in the miraculous gift of God that one of our blessed fathers should be called upon to pray for on behalf of a sizeable portion of our fellow Americans.  Can't we just respect the beauty of HG even being called there to pray in the first place, and build up from there rather then spend so much time tearing down?



stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: September 01, 2012, 03:54:43 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

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« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2012, 04:00:55 PM »

As predicted, news commentators across the board flapped their gums through the benediction.

so disrespectful.
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« Reply #48 on: September 01, 2012, 04:28:24 PM »

I would usually refrain from getting involved in a political discussion (incites the passions), but I could not help but notice that His Eminence called both Romney and Ryan "servants of God."  Romney is a Mormon (essentially a modern-day Arian) who denies the divinity of Christ.  Should someone who denies the divinity of Christ be labeled a "servant of God" by an Orthodox hierarch?  Or perhaps I am missing something fundamental (do we say that all people, regardless of their beliefs, are servants of God?).

In Christ

Erroneous information in this post.

"...inspire the delegates...to be Your devoted servants..."   "They have nominated two of Your faithful sons."
Metropolitan Methodios did not refer to any non-Orthodox Christians, or an Orthodox Christian, as "servants of God."

Earlier in this thread HabteSelassie (thanks!) pointed out Romans 13:4 as the reason why we can call heterodox candidates and officials as servants of God. I will just quote it below to emphasize the point:

"For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

It turns out from the transcript posted by Gunnarr (thanks!) that His Eminence did address the delegates and candidates along the lines of the above passage: "As we close this evening's program, we pray that You bless and inspire the delegates of this Republican Convention to be your devoted servants and dedicated citizens of our great country. They have nominated two of your faithful sons, Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan, to serve the highest offices of this beloved land..."

As for the rest of his benediction, I see it as a marked departure from prayers in mixed-audience occasions. It used to be that the prayer was always addressed to "Almighty God" or "Heavenly Creator" and I am glad that this one started with "O heavenly King." This shows progress.  Outside the Deep South, I do not think that will be anytime soon, but I will be even happier when our clergy are emboldened enough to pray to the Holy Trinity and the Lord Jesus Christ.

On the other hand, it would have been a good thing if His Eminence reiterated traditional Orthodox positions on abortion and gay marriage, certainly two current issues that merit equal footing with:

"May every American be more sensitive:

To the neglected and forgotten
To those who have been victims of discrimination and crime
To those who are hungry and homeless
To those with no jobs and little hope."
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« Reply #49 on: September 01, 2012, 04:49:12 PM »

Prayers should be said in a befitting manner, and not with the goal of pleasing man or appeasing the heterodox. Is that too much to expect?

Are you saying that Archbishop Demetrios wrote the benediction in such a way as to be pleasing to men and/or appease the heterodox? 
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« Reply #50 on: September 01, 2012, 05:01:46 PM »

I would usually refrain from getting involved in a political discussion (incites the passions), but I could not help but notice that His Eminence called both Romney and Ryan "servants of God."  Romney is a Mormon (essentially a modern-day Arian) who denies the divinity of Christ.  Should someone who denies the divinity of Christ be labeled a "servant of God" by an Orthodox hierarch?  Or perhaps I am missing something fundamental (do we say that all people, regardless of their beliefs, are servants of God?).

In Christ

Erroneous information in this post.

"...inspire the delegates...to be Your devoted servants..."   "They have nominated two of Your faithful sons."
Metropolitan Methodios did not refer to any non-Orthodox Christians, or an Orthodox Christian, as "servants of God."

Earlier in this thread HabteSelassie (thanks!) pointed out Romans 13:4 as the reason why we can call heterodox candidates and officials as servants of God. I will just quote it below to emphasize the point:

"For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

It turns out from the transcript posted by Gunnarr (thanks!) that His Eminence did address the delegates and candidates along the lines of the above passage: "As we close this evening's program, we pray that You bless and inspire the delegates of this Republican Convention to be your devoted servants and dedicated citizens of our great country. They have nominated two of your faithful sons, Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan, to serve the highest offices of this beloved land..."

As for the rest of his benediction, I see it as a marked departure from prayers in mixed-audience occasions. It used to be that the prayer was always addressed to "Almighty God" or "Heavenly Creator" and I am glad that this one started with "O heavenly King." This shows progress.  Outside the Deep South, I do not think that will be anytime soon, but I will be even happier when our clergy are emboldened enough to pray to the Holy Trinity and the Lord Jesus Christ.

On the other hand, it would have been a good thing if His Eminence reiterated traditional Orthodox positions on abortion and gay marriage, certainly two current issues that merit equal footing with:

"May every American be more sensitive:

To the neglected and forgotten
To those who have been victims of discrimination and crime
To those who are hungry and homeless
To those with no jobs and little hope."

He could have added one more line that would have spoken volumes:

"To the neglected and forgotten
To those who have been victims of discrimination and crime
To those who are hungry and homeless
To those with no jobs and little hope"

To those who are threatened with extinction: the unborn, the disabled, the sick, and the elderly.
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« Reply #51 on: September 01, 2012, 07:39:20 PM »

Yea, well, no doubt, but the purpose of a closing prayer at a session of the Republican National Convention, a political gathering at which the metropolitan is invited as a guest, is to ask for God's blessing upon the work of the convention delegates and nominees, in a secular environment at which most of those in attendance are American Protestants, with an additional mix of Roman Catholics, Jews, Mormons and probably an atheist and agnostic of two, not "to preach who Christ is."  And it doesn't serve the purpose of promoting Christ's Holy Church, by taking advantage of a forum and offending the audience.  Nor would it be likely he would be invited to a subsequent forum of this group, and perhaps a similar invitation might not be extended to another representative of the denomination which he represents.  Metropolitan Methodios represented the Orthodox Church well, beginning his prayer with the Orthodox prayer to the Holy Spirit, "Heavenly King and Comforter...," and I'm sure gained some respect for our Holy Church which despite our time on this continent, is unknown, probably due to our most limited numbers, comparatively.

P.S. Within church curcles, I'm not particularly a fan of Metropolitan Methodios.
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« Reply #52 on: September 02, 2012, 01:16:02 AM »

For some crazy reason I remember something about not sharing the mystery of the Trinity with those outside the church. Anyone else know what I am talking about? We preach Christ crucified, not the Trinity, the Trinity is reveled once you believe in Christ.

Yes, Father Thomas Hopko said this in one of his podcasts. He was referring to when you preach the Faith to people who have not heard it before, and you want to start with the most basics things. So, you may say, Christ is The Son of God, but you would not go into details about His Divinity and The Holy Trinity at that point. At any rate, you don't want to start with the dogma of The Holy Trinity and not mention The Gospel. Fr. Thomas said, in cases like this, you always start with Christ Crucified. But, he was primarily worried about the "people debating about the roof without having a foundation" syndrome that is often found in our Church. In my experience, it is rare that you cannot introduce the idea of Christ's Divinity and The Holy Trinity, people will understand or at least memorize; true, I have noticed that they are starting to get a bit overwhelmed.
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« Reply #53 on: September 02, 2012, 09:51:28 PM »


I found a transcript of the benediction (saves me time of typing it out!) here:

Not a single "In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit"?  Shocked

For some crazy reason I remember something about not sharing the mystery of the Trinity with those outside the church. Anyone else know what I am talking about? We preach Christ crucified, not the Trinity, the Trinity is reveled once you believe in Christ.

I believe you're right, faith must always come first, otherwise one cannot understand the Trinity.  Here are a few words from the greatest Saint/Theologian and Miracle Worker of this century... And who by the way, is  being celebrated  tomorrow:

CHRISTIANITY by Saint Nektarios

Christian religion is not a certain philosophic system, about which learned men, trained in metaphysical studies, argue and then either espouse or reject, according to the opinion each one has formed. It is faith, established in the souls of men, which ought to be spread to the many and be maintained in their consciousnesses.

There are truths in Christianity that are above our intellectual comprehension, incapable of being grasped by the finite mind of man. Our intellect takes cognizance of them, becomes convinced of their reality, and testifies about their supernatural existence.

Christianity is a religion of revelation. The Divine reveals its glory only to those who have been perfected through virtue. Christianity teaches perfection through virtue and demands that its followers become holy and perfect.


http://www.serfes.org/writtings/stnectarios.htm
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« Reply #54 on: September 07, 2012, 03:16:15 AM »

"goarch.org" reports that Metropolitan Nicholas of Detroit representing Archbishop Demetrios of America gave the Invocation to the Wed., Sep't. 5th session of the Democrat National Convention.  I couldn't find a video of it.

Does anyone know why Archbishop Demetrios sent representatives to the national conventions of the political parties this year, rather than participating himself?
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« Reply #55 on: September 07, 2012, 08:42:35 AM »

"goarch.org" reports that Metropolitan Nicholas of Detroit representing Archbishop Demetrios of America gave the Invocation to the Wed., Sep't. 5th session of the Democrat National Convention.  I couldn't find a video of it.

Does anyone know why Archbishop Demetrios sent representatives to the national conventions of the political parties this year, rather than participating himself?

His Eminence, Metropolitan Nicholas actually gave the opening invocation at the beginning of the Convention on Monday afternoon. It was carried live on C-Span. I apologize for posting the entire prayer, but it isn't long. http://www.goarch.org/news/met-nicholas%20DNC-09042012

"NEW YORK – His Eminence Metropolitan Nicholas of Detroit, representing Archbishop Demetrios of America delivered today, shortly after 5 p.m. (EDT), the invocation at the official opening of the Democratic National Convention in Charlotte, NC.  Originally,  Archbishop Demetrios was scheduled to offer the opening prayer, at the invitation of President Barack Obama, but was unable to do so due to his travel schedule.While in Charlotte, Metropolitan Nicholas met with several officials of the Democratic Party.
The text of the uplifting prayer as delivered by Metropolitan Nicholas follows:
 
O God most pure and Author of all creation;As you spoke to us of old,Speak to our hearts anew;You who had fellowship with Abraham and Sarah,Come and stay in our midst;As You led your people through the wilderness,Lead us now, as the Democratic National Convention opens its deliberations for the benefit of the people and the land of these United States;You have brought us here from every place on earth, that Native Americans and Immigrant Americans, People of Color and of every Tongue, might find not just hope, but a land which seeks life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.Grant to all here a deep and abiding respect for the task at hand, so that our common efforts will perfect our desire that law and government be for, by and of the people.Assist us to set aside personal differences, so that our unity of purpose will be rise above us all as an enduring symbol of freedom.Let freedom reign in our hearts so that we would never fear to lead the oppressed to freedom; never fear to give shelter to the homeless and displaced; never fear to treat our neighbor as our selves; to give dignity and opportunity, as in Detroit and elsewhere in America, to the struggling unemployed and less fortunate brothers and sisters in this great land. Let us never be afraid.While our prayers and assistance are with those affected by Hurricane Isaac, we trust in You, O Lord, that your gracious love will be with our President, Barack Obama, with our Vice-President, Joseph Biden; with all of our public officials and those who serve the good of this Nation. We ask also that You preserve and protect those who stand in harm’s way, as they defend and serve for the benefit of all. Come and be with us, O Mighty God, as fortress and deliverer, so that through You, and by the faithful and strong leadership of our government, we shall rejoice knowing that our children and our children’s children will know peace and every blessing.To You be glory forever. AMEN."


Cardinal Dolan of New York gave the closing benediction last night, again it was on C-Span and it was considerably longer than that of the Metropolitan.

I know that last week, Archbishop Demitrios was in Istanbul for the meeting of the Holy Synod of the EP when the nomination of Bishop-elect Gregorios was presented.
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« Reply #56 on: September 07, 2012, 10:29:29 AM »

"goarch.org" reports that Metropolitan Nicholas of Detroit representing Archbishop Demetrios of America gave the Invocation to the Wed., Sep't. 5th session of the Democrat National Convention.  I couldn't find a video of it.

Does anyone know why Archbishop Demetrios sent representatives to the national conventions of the political parties this year, rather than participating himself?

His Eminence, Metropolitan Nicholas actually gave the opening invocation at the beginning of the Convention on Monday afternoon. It was carried live on C-Span. I apologize for posting the entire prayer, but it isn't long. http://www.goarch.org/news/met-nicholas%20DNC-09042012

"NEW YORK – His Eminence Metropolitan Nicholas of Detroit, representing Archbishop Demetrios of America delivered today, shortly after 5 p.m. (EDT), the invocation at the official opening of the Democratic National Convention in Charlotte, NC.  Originally,  Archbishop Demetrios was scheduled to offer the opening prayer, at the invitation of President Barack Obama, but was unable to do so due to his travel schedule.While in Charlotte, Metropolitan Nicholas met with several officials of the Democratic Party.
The text of the uplifting prayer as delivered by Metropolitan Nicholas follows:
 
O God most pure and Author of all creation;As you spoke to us of old,Speak to our hearts anew;You who had fellowship with Abraham and Sarah,Come and stay in our midst;As You led your people through the wilderness,Lead us now, as the Democratic National Convention opens its deliberations for the benefit of the people and the land of these United States;You have brought us here from every place on earth, that Native Americans and Immigrant Americans, People of Color and of every Tongue, might find not just hope, but a land which seeks life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.Grant to all here a deep and abiding respect for the task at hand, so that our common efforts will perfect our desire that law and government be for, by and of the people.Assist us to set aside personal differences, so that our unity of purpose will be rise above us all as an enduring symbol of freedom.Let freedom reign in our hearts so that we would never fear to lead the oppressed to freedom; never fear to give shelter to the homeless and displaced; never fear to treat our neighbor as our selves; to give dignity and opportunity, as in Detroit and elsewhere in America, to the struggling unemployed and less fortunate brothers and sisters in this great land. Let us never be afraid.While our prayers and assistance are with those affected by Hurricane Isaac, we trust in You, O Lord, that your gracious love will be with our President, Barack Obama, with our Vice-President, Joseph Biden; with all of our public officials and those who serve the good of this Nation. We ask also that You preserve and protect those who stand in harm’s way, as they defend and serve for the benefit of all. Come and be with us, O Mighty God, as fortress and deliverer, so that through You, and by the faithful and strong leadership of our government, we shall rejoice knowing that our children and our children’s children will know peace and every blessing.To You be glory forever. AMEN."


Cardinal Dolan of New York gave the closing benediction last night, again it was on C-Span and it was considerably longer than that of the Metropolitan.

I know that last week, Archbishop Demitrios was in Istanbul for the meeting of the Holy Synod of the EP when the nomination of Bishop-elect Gregorios was presented.
The Cardinal gave a strongly worded prayer.  Very in your face, but with a smile.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 10:30:42 AM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #57 on: September 07, 2012, 11:45:27 AM »

"goarch.org" reports that Metropolitan Nicholas of Detroit representing Archbishop Demetrios of America gave the Invocation to the Wed., Sep't. 5th session of the Democrat National Convention.  I couldn't find a video of it.

Does anyone know why Archbishop Demetrios sent representatives to the national conventions of the political parties this year, rather than participating himself?

His Eminence, Metropolitan Nicholas actually gave the opening invocation at the beginning of the Convention on Monday afternoon. It was carried live on C-Span. I apologize for posting the entire prayer, but it isn't long. http://www.goarch.org/news/met-nicholas%20DNC-09042012

"NEW YORK – His Eminence Metropolitan Nicholas of Detroit, representing Archbishop Demetrios of America delivered today, shortly after 5 p.m. (EDT), the invocation at the official opening of the Democratic National Convention in Charlotte, NC.  Originally,  Archbishop Demetrios was scheduled to offer the opening prayer, at the invitation of President Barack Obama, but was unable to do so due to his travel schedule.While in Charlotte, Metropolitan Nicholas met with several officials of the Democratic Party.
The text of the uplifting prayer as delivered by Metropolitan Nicholas follows:
 
O God most pure and Author of all creation;As you spoke to us of old,Speak to our hearts anew;You who had fellowship with Abraham and Sarah,Come and stay in our midst;As You led your people through the wilderness,Lead us now, as the Democratic National Convention opens its deliberations for the benefit of the people and the land of these United States;You have brought us here from every place on earth, that Native Americans and Immigrant Americans, People of Color and of every Tongue, might find not just hope, but a land which seeks life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.Grant to all here a deep and abiding respect for the task at hand, so that our common efforts will perfect our desire that law and government be for, by and of the people.Assist us to set aside personal differences, so that our unity of purpose will be rise above us all as an enduring symbol of freedom.Let freedom reign in our hearts so that we would never fear to lead the oppressed to freedom; never fear to give shelter to the homeless and displaced; never fear to treat our neighbor as our selves; to give dignity and opportunity, as in Detroit and elsewhere in America, to the struggling unemployed and less fortunate brothers and sisters in this great land. Let us never be afraid.While our prayers and assistance are with those affected by Hurricane Isaac, we trust in You, O Lord, that your gracious love will be with our President, Barack Obama, with our Vice-President, Joseph Biden; with all of our public officials and those who serve the good of this Nation. We ask also that You preserve and protect those who stand in harm’s way, as they defend and serve for the benefit of all. Come and be with us, O Mighty God, as fortress and deliverer, so that through You, and by the faithful and strong leadership of our government, we shall rejoice knowing that our children and our children’s children will know peace and every blessing.To You be glory forever. AMEN."


Cardinal Dolan of New York gave the closing benediction last night, again it was on C-Span and it was considerably longer than that of the Metropolitan.

I know that last week, Archbishop Demitrios was in Istanbul for the meeting of the Holy Synod of the EP when the nomination of Bishop-elect Gregorios was presented.
The Cardinal gave a strongly worded prayer.  Very in your face, but with a smile.

That he did, with a smile! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/06/cardinal-dolan-benediction-rnc-dnc_n_1861440.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular
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« Reply #58 on: September 07, 2012, 12:12:33 PM »

Does anyone know why Archbishop Demetrios sent representatives to the national conventions of the political parties this year, rather than participating himself?

That was explained in at least one press release, I believe, and even in some news coverage. The Archbishop was invited to pray at both conventions. He couldn't make it to the Republican one because he had to be in Turkey, so he sent a representative. To avoid any appearance of partiality he also sent a representative to the Democratic convention of equal rank to the one he sent to the Republican convention.
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« Reply #59 on: September 07, 2012, 12:20:43 PM »

Does anyone know why Archbishop Demetrios sent representatives to the national conventions of the political parties this year, rather than participating himself?

That was explained in at least one press release, I believe, and even in some news coverage. The Archbishop was invited to pray at both conventions. He couldn't make it to the Republican one because he had to be in Turkey, so he sent a representative. To avoid any appearance of partiality he also sent a representative to the Democratic convention of equal rank to the one he sent to the Republican convention.
Not to detract from Archbishop Demetrios (many years!), but that underlines why the Orthodox Church in America has to be locally based.
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« Reply #60 on: September 07, 2012, 01:18:18 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Does anyone know why Archbishop Demetrios sent representatives to the national conventions of the political parties this year, rather than participating himself?

That was explained in at least one press release, I believe, and even in some news coverage. The Archbishop was invited to pray at both conventions. He couldn't make it to the Republican one because he had to be in Turkey, so he sent a representative. To avoid any appearance of partiality he also sent a representative to the Democratic convention of equal rank to the one he sent to the Republican convention.
Not to detract from Archbishop Demetrios (many years!), but that underlines why the Orthodox Church in America has to be locally based.

Interestingly enough, that is the the exact same argument which some folks assert in favor of a less phyletic, more Universal approach to Church government and structural organization.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #61 on: September 07, 2012, 02:18:19 PM »

Does anyone know why Archbishop Demetrios sent representatives to the national conventions of the political parties this year, rather than participating himself?

That was explained in at least one press release, I believe, and even in some news coverage. The Archbishop was invited to pray at both conventions. He couldn't make it to the Republican one because he had to be in Turkey, so he sent a representative. To avoid any appearance of partiality he also sent a representative to the Democratic convention of equal rank to the one he sent to the Republican convention.
Not to detract from Archbishop Demetrios (many years!), but that underlines why the Orthodox Church in America has to be locally based.

So the heads of a "locally based" organization never travel abroad?
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« Reply #62 on: September 07, 2012, 02:27:03 PM »

Does anyone know why Archbishop Demetrios sent representatives to the national conventions of the political parties this year, rather than participating himself?

That was explained in at least one press release, I believe, and even in some news coverage. The Archbishop was invited to pray at both conventions. He couldn't make it to the Republican one because he had to be in Turkey, so he sent a representative. To avoid any appearance of partiality he also sent a representative to the Democratic convention of equal rank to the one he sent to the Republican convention.
Not to detract from Archbishop Demetrios (many years!), but that underlines why the Orthodox Church in America has to be locally based.

So the heads of a "locally based" organization never travel abroad?

I think he means that in a united American church, the Primate could arrange things like Synod meetings for the election of a ruling Bishop for an American Diocese, rather than being dependent upon a foreign Synod which is not likely in touch on a regular basis with ongoing current events in America.
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« Reply #63 on: September 07, 2012, 02:43:46 PM »

Does anyone know why Archbishop Demetrios sent representatives to the national conventions of the political parties this year, rather than participating himself?

That was explained in at least one press release, I believe, and even in some news coverage. The Archbishop was invited to pray at both conventions. He couldn't make it to the Republican one because he had to be in Turkey, so he sent a representative. To avoid any appearance of partiality he also sent a representative to the Democratic convention of equal rank to the one he sent to the Republican convention.
Not to detract from Archbishop Demetrios (many years!), but that underlines why the Orthodox Church in America has to be locally based.

So the heads of a "locally based" organization never travel abroad?

I think he means that in a united American church, the Primate could arrange things like Synod meetings for the election of a ruling Bishop for an American Diocese, rather than being dependent upon a foreign Synod which is not likely in touch on a regular basis with ongoing current events in America.
Indeed, especially with both sides, meeting back to back, rhetorically saying this is a "Choice Election" for the soul of the nation, something Pat Buchanan predicted as a prophet at the Republican Convention twenty years ago.
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« Reply #64 on: September 07, 2012, 03:08:12 PM »

I posted this on Facebook this morning:

Quote
So I wake up this morning and check the rags and blogs I frequent and many of them were talking about Cardinal Dolan's prayer at the DNC, calling it "hate-filled", "evil", "anti-LGBT", "a horrible attack", etc. I was shocked. I wondered what he had said. So I go and hunt down the transcript and it was completely benign.

I then wrote some political things that I can't post here.  But it is clear to me that extremism on both sides is rampant and it scares me.  Especially the anti-Christianity that pervades many of the blogs of a certain political leaning.  It scares me.   Cry
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« Reply #65 on: September 07, 2012, 03:13:23 PM »

I posted this on Facebook this morning:

Quote
So I wake up this morning and check the rags and blogs I frequent and many of them were talking about Cardinal Dolan's prayer at the DNC, calling it "hate-filled", "evil", "anti-LGBT", "a horrible attack", etc. I was shocked. I wondered what he had said. So I go and hunt down the transcript and it was completely benign.

I then wrote some political things that I can't post here.  But it is clear to me that extremism on both sides is rampant and it scares me.  Especially the anti-Christianity that pervades many of the blogs of a certain political leaning.  It scares me.   Cry

On this we agree - the whole concept of calling speech you disagree with 'hating' is a disturbing trend and one that permeates our culture, cutting across political, ideological, economic, racial, religious and gender barriers. His prayer was gutsy and as Isa said, presented with the smile of one who knows whose side of the argument upon which righteousness finds itself.
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« Reply #66 on: September 07, 2012, 03:29:06 PM »

I posted this on Facebook this morning:

Quote
So I wake up this morning and check the rags and blogs I frequent and many of them were talking about Cardinal Dolan's prayer at the DNC, calling it "hate-filled", "evil", "anti-LGBT", "a horrible attack", etc. I was shocked. I wondered what he had said. So I go and hunt down the transcript and it was completely benign.

I then wrote some political things that I can't post here.  But it is clear to me that extremism on both sides is rampant and it scares me.  Especially the anti-Christianity that pervades many of the blogs of a certain political leaning.  It scares me.   Cry

On this we agree - the whole concept of calling speech you disagree with 'hating' is a disturbing trend and one that permeates our culture, cutting across political, ideological, economic, racial, religious and gender barriers. His prayer was gutsy and as Isa said, presented with the smile of one who knows whose side of the argument upon which righteousness finds itself.


His prayer was gutsy indeed. I have XM radio and I listen to the Catholic Channel quite often and have had the opportunity to here Cardinal Dolan speak numerous time.  I have enormous respect for the man.
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« Reply #67 on: September 07, 2012, 03:29:12 PM »

Part of it is also that they Synod always meets the first week of the month, and have been doing so for at least the last 10 years that I know of.  Could they have rescheduled Bishop Elect Fr. Gregorios' procedures for another month..sure.  But that's also not being pastoral to the ACROD people.  Sometimes the souls of people should go ahead of political moving & shaking in the nation, no matter how big.  
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« Reply #68 on: September 07, 2012, 03:45:47 PM »

I posted this on Facebook this morning:

Quote
So I wake up this morning and check the rags and blogs I frequent and many of them were talking about Cardinal Dolan's prayer at the DNC, calling it "hate-filled", "evil", "anti-LGBT", "a horrible attack", etc. I was shocked. I wondered what he had said. So I go and hunt down the transcript and it was completely benign.

I then wrote some political things that I can't post here.  But it is clear to me that extremism on both sides is rampant and it scares me.  Especially the anti-Christianity that pervades many of the blogs of a certain political leaning.  It scares me.   Cry

On this we agree - the whole concept of calling speech you disagree with 'hating' is a disturbing trend and one that permeates our culture, cutting across political, ideological, economic, racial, religious and gender barriers. His prayer was gutsy and as Isa said, presented with the smile of one who knows whose side of the argument upon which righteousness finds itself.


His prayer was gutsy indeed. I have XM radio and I listen to the Catholic Channel quite often and have had the opportunity to here Cardinal Dolan speak numerous time.  I have enormous respect for the man.
Yes, his eminence is quite excellent (he was a bishop in my neck of the woods before he was sent to NYC.  He is definitely the man for that job).
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« Reply #69 on: September 07, 2012, 03:55:16 PM »

Part of it is also that they Synod always meets the first week of the month, and have been doing so for at least the last 10 years that I know of.  Could they have rescheduled Bishop Elect Fr. Gregorios' procedures for another month..sure.  But that's also not being pastoral to the ACROD people.  Sometimes the souls of people should go ahead of political moving & shaking in the nation, no matter how big.  
How long has ACROD been waiting?

It would never been scheduled in the first week of September if it were here, anymore than it would be scheduled in the middle of March or the end of October/beginning of November in Greece.

Is it scheduled at the beginning of May?

Did they meet the beginning of June last year?
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« Reply #70 on: September 07, 2012, 06:46:19 PM »

Does anyone know why Archbishop Demetrios sent representatives to the national conventions of the political parties this year, rather than participating himself?

That was explained in at least one press release, I believe, and even in some news coverage. The Archbishop was invited to pray at both conventions. He couldn't make it to the Republican one because he had to be in Turkey, so he sent a representative. To avoid any appearance of partiality he also sent a representative to the Democratic convention of equal rank to the one he sent to the Republican convention.

Ok, thanks.  I read above that His Eminence was at the Phanar for the meeting of the Synod, but I was thinking, why, Metropolitan Savas is the American representative to the Synod this session, but now I see why Archbishop Demetrios, as Locum Tenens of ACROD, attended too.
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« Reply #71 on: September 08, 2012, 12:58:36 AM »

I don't have answers to your questions.

Never is a strong word coming from someone who has no say on the actual decision making process.

Your last two questions don't make sense to me.  Sorry.

Part of it is also that they Synod always meets the first week of the month, and have been doing so for at least the last 10 years that I know of.  Could they have rescheduled Bishop Elect Fr. Gregorios' procedures for another month..sure.  But that's also not being pastoral to the ACROD people.  Sometimes the souls of people should go ahead of political moving & shaking in the nation, no matter how big.  
How long has ACROD been waiting?

It would never been scheduled in the first week of September if it were here, anymore than it would be scheduled in the middle of March or the end of October/beginning of November in Greece.

Is it scheduled at the beginning of May?

Did they meet the beginning of June last year?

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« Reply #72 on: September 08, 2012, 01:19:20 AM »

I don't have answers to your questions.

Never is a strong word coming from someone who has no say on the actual decision making process.
That is somewhat the point, Father.

Your last two questions don't make sense to me.  Sorry.

May Day is a holiday in both the Turkish Republic and Greece, and a time of political agitation in both.

The Turkish Republic held its elections last year June, sweeping the Islamist government in with an unprecedented third term and its biggest mandate yet.
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« Reply #73 on: September 08, 2012, 12:01:04 PM »

And so your point AFAIUI is that the planar would not, has not, made elections of hierarchy during may & June b/c of their unique Turkish situation, but they don't care about our political situation here. 

Right?

I don't have answers to your questions.

Never is a strong word coming from someone who has no say on the actual decision making process.
That is somewhat the point, Father.

Your last two questions don't make sense to me.  Sorry.

May Day is a holiday in both the Turkish Republic and Greece, and a time of political agitation in both.

The Turkish Republic held its elections last year June, sweeping the Islamist government in with an unprecedented third term and its biggest mandate yet.
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« Reply #74 on: September 08, 2012, 12:10:24 PM »

Does anyone know why Archbishop Demetrios sent representatives to the national conventions of the political parties this year, rather than participating himself?

That was explained in at least one press release, I believe, and even in some news coverage. The Archbishop was invited to pray at both conventions. He couldn't make it to the Republican one because he had to be in Turkey, so he sent a representative. To avoid any appearance of partiality he also sent a representative to the Democratic convention of equal rank to the one he sent to the Republican convention.
Not to detract from Archbishop Demetrios (many years!), but that underlines why the Orthodox Church in America has to be locally based.

So the heads of a "locally based" organization never travel abroad?

I think he means that in a united American church, the Primate could arrange things like Synod meetings for the election of a ruling Bishop for an American Diocese, rather than being dependent upon a foreign Synod which is not likely in touch on a regular basis with ongoing current events in America.

Yes, but my point was that heads of churches and other organizations often travel abroad and therefore miss all kinds of important events at home. Happens all the time in my organization. The president is in the UK and one of the vice presidents is in China. Major events that would typically "require" both are still going on.

In other words, the solution offered would not solve the "problem." Some things are more important than a political convention.
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« Reply #75 on: September 08, 2012, 02:30:14 PM »

And so your point AFAIUI is that the planar would not, has not, made elections of hierarchy during may & June b/c of their unique Turkish situation, but they don't care about our political situation here.  

Right?

I don't have answers to your questions.

Never is a strong word coming from someone who has no say on the actual decision making process.
That is somewhat the point, Father.

Your last two questions don't make sense to me.  Sorry.

May Day is a holiday in both the Turkish Republic and Greece, and a time of political agitation in both.

The Turkish Republic held its elections last year June, sweeping the Islamist government in with an unprecedented third term and its biggest mandate yet.
I'm not so sure they are aware to care, Father.
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« Reply #76 on: September 08, 2012, 02:39:08 PM »

Does anyone know why Archbishop Demetrios sent representatives to the national conventions of the political parties this year, rather than participating himself?

That was explained in at least one press release, I believe, and even in some news coverage. The Archbishop was invited to pray at both conventions. He couldn't make it to the Republican one because he had to be in Turkey, so he sent a representative. To avoid any appearance of partiality he also sent a representative to the Democratic convention of equal rank to the one he sent to the Republican convention.
Not to detract from Archbishop Demetrios (many years!), but that underlines why the Orthodox Church in America has to be locally based.

So the heads of a "locally based" organization never travel abroad?

I think he means that in a united American church, the Primate could arrange things like Synod meetings for the election of a ruling Bishop for an American Diocese, rather than being dependent upon a foreign Synod which is not likely in touch on a regular basis with ongoing current events in America.

Yes, but my point was that heads of churches and other organizations often travel abroad and therefore miss all kinds of important events at home. Happens all the time in my organization. The president is in the UK and one of the vice presidents is in China. Major events that would typically "require" both are still going on.

In other words, the solution offered would not solve the "problem." Some things are more important than a political convention.
And when said parties receive calls for help from the Phanar, we can't blame anyone but ourselves when said parties don't hear it because we aren't at the table, except for the March 25 photo op.

Where was the Ecumenical Patriarch on June 12, 2011?
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« Reply #77 on: September 08, 2012, 03:15:57 PM »

I'm also not sure why they should be worried about the leader of the free world.  Battling communism & fascism seem to me to be very pressing issues.  Our US politics don't have those kinds of issues.

If you disagree politically, feel free to start a new thread in politics.  Or I could if ur busy.

And so your point AFAIUI is that the planar would not, has not, made elections of hierarchy during may & June b/c of their unique Turkish situation, but they don't care about our political situation here.  

Right?

I don't have answers to your questions.

Never is a strong word coming from someone who has no say on the actual decision making process.
That is somewhat the point, Father.

Your last two questions don't make sense to me.  Sorry.

May Day is a holiday in both the Turkish Republic and Greece, and a time of political agitation in both.

The Turkish Republic held its elections last year June, sweeping the Islamist government in with an unprecedented third term and its biggest mandate yet.
I'm not so sure they are aware to care, Father.
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