Author Topic: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law  (Read 1444 times)

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Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« on: January 27, 2015, 11:17:59 PM »
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is supporting nondiscrimination bills involving lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people — while at the same time calling for protections for people of faith.

In a rare news conference on Tuesday morning, LDS Church leaders announced their support for LGBT nondiscrimination legislation.

“God is loving and merciful,” said Sister Neill Marriott of the LDS Church’s Young Women’s program. “Jesus ministered to marginalized outcasts.”

“It’s for this reason that the church has publicly favored laws and ordinances that protect LGBT people from discrimination in housing and employment.”

But the church also complained of people being branded “bigots” for speaking for their faith.

“When religious people are publicly intimidated, retaliated against, forced from employment or made to suffer personal loss because they have raised their voice in the public square, donated to a cause or participated in an election, our democracy is the loser,” said Elder Dallin Oaks, a member of the church’s Quorum of Twelve Apostles.

“It is one of today’s great ironies that some people who have fought so hard for LGBT rights now try to deny the rights of others to disagree with their public policy proposals,” said Elder Oaks.


More here: LDS Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination and religious freedom bills

An interesting and fairly new strategy. Historically, the Mormon church tended to toe the Religious Right line in the culture wars. Now the strategy seems to be shifting in favor of advocating a permanent ceasefire or detente, with both sides agreeing to disagree and remaining civil as much as possible.

Gay marriage advocates and traditional religions are never going to see eye to eye, but an uneasy but peaceful coexistence ("don't bother us and we won't bother you") is certainly preferable to one in which each side sees the other as "the enemy" with the result that (as in some parts of the country) people lose their jobs for personally holding the "wrong" opinions.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 11:18:12 PM by Minnesotan »
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Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2015, 04:29:53 AM »
I think the Morman Church can say whatever they want, I do not see how they are the same church as they were a hundred years ago though. I imagine in a hundred years in the future they will be very different from what they are today
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Offline Pravoslavac

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2015, 08:31:44 AM »
I think the Morman Church can say whatever they want, I do not see how they are the same church as they were a hundred years ago though. I imagine in a hundred years in the future they will be very different from what they are today

Orthodox Church will be also very different in 100 years from now. We will all have organs, chairs, new calendars, no iconostasis and pope in Rome will be no longer heretic. So don't judge other Churches.
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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2015, 09:47:03 AM »
I think the Morman Church can say whatever they want, I do not see how they are the same church as they were a hundred years ago though. I imagine in a hundred years in the future they will be very different from what they are today

Orthodox Church will be also very different in 100 years from now. We will all have organs, chairs, new calendars, no iconostasis and pope in Rome will be no longer heretic. So don't judge other Churches.

Maybe it is not judgment. Maybe one can only paint what one sees.
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Offline jewish voice

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2015, 11:27:56 AM »
They sure are all falling for this stuff.

Offline truthseeker32

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2015, 01:21:32 PM »
Just to clarify, the LDS Church is not endorsing gay marriage (although they might someday); this anti discrimination matter applies more to housing and employment. I don't see anything wrong with it.

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2015, 01:27:49 PM »
Non-Discrimination Laws for Gays, and religious exemptions and conscience clauses for people of faith and religious institutions. Sounds reasonable to me.
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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2015, 01:32:11 PM »
Just to clarify, the LDS Church is not endorsing gay marriage (although they might someday); this anti discrimination matter applies more to housing and employment. I don't see anything wrong with it.

There is a wrong, but it is foisted and promulgated by the government.
The LDS is huge and thus probably falls under gov't mandates regarding discrimination via Title VII of the Civil Rights Law.
Maybe you are familiar with the camel:nose:tent theory of management?
They are getting ready to move forward under this damnable part of that law.
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Offline sakura95

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2015, 01:43:28 PM »
I'm scared of Mormons but I don't see anything objectionable here. What's wrong with supporting LGBT Non Discrimination? We don't discriminate individuals who are infected with diseases or suffer from mental illnesses.
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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2015, 01:43:45 PM »
Non-Discrimination Laws for Gays, and religious exemptions and conscience clauses for people of faith and religious institutions. Sounds reasonable to me.

"Reasonable" when defined by morally deficient, mentally ill, agenda driven propagandists does not come out the same for most of us.

The RICO Act sounded reasonable around 1979 and went after the organized crime Mafia-types, but now is used to go after pro-life groups, as well as any group that is in disfavor with the any current administration; some wanted to use it for the Boy Scouts!

No, sorry, folks are being fed a line of folderol (I am trying to give up swearing about what bulls come forth with)
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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2015, 01:51:05 PM »
I'm scared of Mormons but I don't see anything objectionable here. What's wrong with supporting LGBT Non Discrimination? We don't discriminate individuals who are infected with diseases or suffer from mental illnesses.

We do and should discriminate folks with disease and mental illness.
You want a toxic TB infected person on a subway?
How about a mentally ill person at a gun range? Or helping you if they are a fireman? Driving a bus? Dentist? Pastor? Teacher? Or simply walking down the street?
Arguments may be made, and are all around, while discernment is abandoned in the public square.
BTW, Mormons are some of the nicest folks I've ever met.  They are friendly, fun loving, polite, courteous, civic-minded and strive for virtues that we can all emulate.
How they do that and remain believing in that church is anybody's guess.
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Offline sakura95

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2015, 01:59:10 PM »
I'm scared of Mormons but I don't see anything objectionable here. What's wrong with supporting LGBT Non Discrimination? We don't discriminate individuals who are infected with diseases or suffer from mental illnesses.

We do and should discriminate folks with disease and mental illness.
You want a toxic TB infected person on a subway?
How about a mentally ill person at a gun range? Or helping you if they are a fireman? Driving a bus? Dentist? Pastor? Teacher? Or simply walking down the street?
Arguments may be made, and are all around, while discernment is abandoned in the public square.
BTW, Mormons are some of the nicest folks I've ever met.  They are friendly, fun loving, polite, courteous, civic-minded and strive for virtues that we can all emulate.
How they do that and remain believing in that church is anybody's guess.

Mormons are viewed more as a cult where I came from.

Why should we discriminate folks with disease or mental illness anyway?

Doing so only makes things worse. It makes it difficult for them to come out and seek treatment out of fear of social stigma. The same is with homosexuals. Hating on them and threatening them with eternal torment ain't gonna stop them from being homosexual. Making them aware about the unnaturalness of their condition is key in a loving manner as to allow them to be more comfortable with seeking help to cure their affliction. We all seen what happens when homosexuals are discriminated by Fundamentalist Christians, it simply brings us all unnecessary trouble.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 01:59:23 PM by sakura95 »
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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2015, 02:29:55 PM »
I'm scared of Mormons but I don't see anything objectionable here. What's wrong with supporting LGBT Non Discrimination? We don't discriminate individuals who are infected with diseases or suffer from mental illnesses.

We do and should discriminate folks with disease and mental illness.
You want a toxic TB infected person on a subway?
How about a mentally ill person at a gun range? Or helping you if they are a fireman? Driving a bus? Dentist? Pastor? Teacher? Or simply walking down the street?
Arguments may be made, and are all around, while discernment is abandoned in the public square.
BTW, Mormons are some of the nicest folks I've ever met.  They are friendly, fun loving, polite, courteous, civic-minded and strive for virtues that we can all emulate.
How they do that and remain believing in that church is anybody's guess.

Mormons are viewed more as a cult where I came from.

Why should we discriminate folks with disease or mental illness anyway?

Doing so only makes things worse. It makes it difficult for them to come out and seek treatment out of fear of social stigma. The same is with homosexuals. Hating on them and threatening them with eternal torment ain't gonna stop them from being homosexual. Making them aware about the unnaturalness of their condition is key in a loving manner as to allow them to be more comfortable with seeking help to cure their affliction. We all seen what happens when homosexuals are discriminated by Fundamentalist Christians, it simply brings us all unnecessary trouble.

Then we agree, mostly. We should not and do not hate individual homosexuals, as they are just people as you and I.
We hate their sins, just as we hate all sin. We do not approve of their "lifestyle" as it is lustful, narcissistic, exaggerated in modality and expresses a way contrary to health in all forms. Homosexuality is, and once was called, as a personality disorder, and still viewed as such by the Catholic Church.
We do not hate them. Nor should we threaten them, however an individual homosexual may "feel" is a  problem in discernment on everyone's part around them, which leads to strange dynamics. And those "feeling" are brought into the public arena and made into law.
One can make another "feel" threatened by simply a smile, or word, or other non-threatening gesture, which is the problem in a nutshell. We are enforcing laws & regulations based on one's feelings and perception, not activity or actions, which is insane! We can not create a law, rules, social structure, punishments, etc based on perceptions. No, wait, I am wrong: we are doing so and THAT will lead to chaos.
We already discriminate in marriage, so when the question, "why can't we marry" is asked by that community, it is an oxymoron.  The answer is one cannot marry their sibling or parents, or a tree, or dead people, or dog or a group. 
The word "discriminate" has taken on a pejorative meaning, but it really is the same as "discernment" which has a beautiful meaning, especially in Orthodoxy, except we call it Wisdom, which is more than a virtue.
Speaking of which, this is already TLTR and I must go and practice some of those.
Thanks for posting your issue; keep on.
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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2015, 02:36:49 PM »
Homosexuality is, and once was called, as a personality disorder, and still viewed as such by the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church does not view homosexuality as a personality disorder. What the Church does teach is that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered in as far as they are a misuse of the sexual faculties, and thus, contrary to God's design for marital love.

Here is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

"2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection."
Source: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

Even when the inclination is described as disordered, we are not talking "personality" disorder, since the Church is not engaging in modern psychology. Instead, as any good Catholic Theologian will argue, the homosexual inclination is a moral disorder, that is, it inclines a person toward that which is morally evil.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 02:39:12 PM by Papist »
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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2015, 04:14:24 PM »
I stand corrected. Thank you for the information and update.
In my scree I applied inappropriate language and apologize for that.
As I understand the principle, the issue still stands relative to The Church, even through my errors and blunders.

I will endeavor to use "intrinsic" and "moral" in the future, even though opposition degrades the proper term 'moral', as well as deconstructs 'intrinsic' to a POV, in the public square The Church,
and even churches as LDS, need to hold the standard for the rest of US.
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Offline Shlomlokh

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2015, 04:16:12 PM »
Shouldn't this be in Other Religions? Mormons aren't Christian.
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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2015, 04:23:36 PM »
Can't judge that.
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Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2015, 12:17:37 AM »
I think the Morman Church can say whatever they want, I do not see how they are the same church as they were a hundred years ago though. I imagine in a hundred years in the future they will be very different from what they are today

Orthodox Church will be also very different in 100 years from now. We will all have organs, chairs, new calendars, no iconostasis and pope in Rome will be no longer heretic. So don't judge other Churches.

Well in America there are already some organs in the Churchs... how terrible... but, who knows, maybe you could be right, there might be some people who make an Orthodox Church join with the Catholics, such as they have so many times in the past. But that would not be the Orthodox Church changing, just people leaving the Church. The Orthodox Church would still be there, those that refuse such a union. Personally though I do not see it happening so fast.
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Offline mike

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2015, 10:25:07 AM »
I think the Morman Church can say whatever they want, I do not see how they are the same church as they were a hundred years ago though. I imagine in a hundred years in the future they will be very different from what they are today

Orthodox Church will be also very different in 100 years from now. We will all have organs, chairs, new calendars, no iconostasis and pope in Rome will be no longer heretic. So don't judge other Churches.

Well in America there are already some organs in the Churchs... how terrible... but, who knows, maybe you could be right, there might be some people who make an Orthodox Church join with the Catholics, such as they have so many times in the past. But that would not be the Orthodox Church changing, just people leaving the Church. The Orthodox Church would still be there, those that refuse such a union. Personally though I do not see it happening so fast.

Are you Orthodox yet?

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2015, 10:31:57 AM »
Can't judge that.
Danger, Will Robinson!
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Sure you can. We can't judge other's salvation, but we can certainly say if they are Christians or not. Anyone who disagrees with the basic tenents of Christianity is not a Christian, it is as simple as that.
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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2015, 11:07:55 AM »
Can't judge that.
Danger, Will Robinson!
According to some in this forum, the only ones that are Orthodox in their congregation!  :D
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Sure you can. We can't judge other's salvation, but we can certainly say if they are Christians or not. Anyone who disagrees with the basic tenents of Christianity is not a Christian, it is as simple as that.
^This.

You cant judge people (ie. "That guy is a horrible person"), but you can absolutely judge what is and what is not wrong ("That action is sinful").

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« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 11:08:26 AM by primuspilus »
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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2015, 01:43:12 PM »
Can't judge that.
Danger, Will Robinson!
According to some in this forum, the only ones that are Orthodox in their congregation!  :D
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Sure you can. We can't judge other's salvation, but we can certainly say if they are Christians or not. Anyone who disagrees with the basic tenents of Christianity is not a Christian, it is as simple as that.

Well, I agree with you partly, as usual, as I sure can/do judge folks.
Two things: don't even want to know how God does it, as there may be Mormons in heaven someday.
and we 'Christians' have, according to history and current events, find others who are not on the mark with Christian tenets and judge them as being all kinds of bad-words types. Or it is just above my abilities to do so. I can, and do judge, and find it wrong in me often enough to ask God for forgiveness in my pride. So I thank God as that is what The Creed is for, to remind me of the Right Way.
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2015, 02:19:33 PM »
Can't judge that.
Danger, Will Robinson!
According to some in this forum, the only ones that are Orthodox in their congregation!  :D
Ask PravoSlavac.
Sure you can. We can't judge other's salvation, but we can certainly say if they are Christians or not. Anyone who disagrees with the basic tenents of Christianity is not a Christian, it is as simple as that.

Well, I agree with you partly, as usual, as I sure can/do judge folks.
Two things: don't even want to know how God does it, as there may be Mormons in heaven someday.
and we 'Christians' have, according to history and current events, find others who are not on the mark with Christian tenets and judge them as being all kinds of bad-words types. Or it is just above my abilities to do so. I can, and do judge, and find it wrong in me often enough to ask God for forgiveness in my pride. So I thank God as that is what The Creed is for, to remind me of the Right Way.
It has nothing to do with judging folks. It has everything to do with judging a theological system. I can say that Mormonism is an evil heresy without conferring any judgment on those who adhere to it. They aren't evil because they follow it, they aren't bad-word types. All that is being stated is that Mormonism, as the theological position is stated, is not Christian. Similarly, Islam, as it is stated, is not Christian. Buddhism as it is stated, is not Christian. That is no reflection an any individual's soul.
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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2015, 02:22:54 PM »
IIRC, you me and A.N. had a thread about this when I first came here.
No argument now.
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Offline Tony

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2015, 03:34:47 PM »
Mormons are always changing their beliefs. First they allowed polygamy, then banned it. Black men were banned from their "priesthood", now they are allowed. I wouldn't be surprised if they allow SSM within a decade.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but whenever the head of the Mormon Church proclaims a change in doctrine, it is viewed by them as a decree directly from God.


Offline Irish45

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2015, 09:34:04 PM »
Here is the issue that is not being discussed.  Are we talking about discriminating against someone because they are LGBT or because they act out their LGBT desires?  Employers discriminate against peoples behaviors on a daily basis.  If an employer does not agree with a type of lifestyle, then they should be able to discriminate.  It happens all the time, but discriminating against someone purely for their biological attraction should not be allowed. 

Offline truthseeker32

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2015, 03:23:14 PM »
If we are going to be consistent we should start speaking out against all the so-called Protestants and evangelical Christians who are beginning to reject almost as much orthodox dogma as Mormons do. Why should they get a free pass?

Offline Shlomlokh

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2015, 04:19:42 PM »
If we are going to be consistent we should start speaking out against all the so-called Protestants and evangelical Christians who are beginning to reject almost as much orthodox dogma as Mormons do. Why should they get a free pass?
They shouldn't.

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2015, 08:30:29 AM »
Quote
Mormons are always changing their beliefs. First they allowed polygamy, then banned it. Black men were banned from their "priesthood", now they are allowed. I wouldn't be surprised if they allow SSM within a decade
But they got what they wanted. THey got their own state. Which is what all that was about.

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Offline Stavro

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2015, 01:45:43 PM »
Quote
Gay marriage advocates and traditional religions are never going to see eye to eye, but an uneasy but peaceful coexistence ("don't bother us and we won't bother you") is certainly preferable to one in which each side sees the other as "the enemy" with the result that (as in some parts of the country) people lose their jobs for personally holding the "wrong" opinions.

Hope perverts listen to you let allow Orthodox believers live in peace without more harassment.

Trisagion, please listen.
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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2015, 01:49:03 PM »
Quote
Gay marriage advocates and traditional religions are never going to see eye to eye, but an uneasy but peaceful coexistence ("don't bother us and we won't bother you") is certainly preferable to one in which each side sees the other as "the enemy" with the result that (as in some parts of the country) people lose their jobs for personally holding the "wrong" opinions.

Hope perverts listen to you let allow Orthodox believers live in peace without more harassment.

Trisagion, please listen.

The Church grew rather well under "harassment" and worse. As St. Paul wrote, troubles bring out character, etc.
Mark 14:36
God is with us, understand O' ye nations, and submit yourselves, for God is with us

Offline mike

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Re: Mormon Church backs LGBT nondiscrimination law
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2015, 01:49:17 PM »
Hope perverts listen to you let allow Orthodox believers live in peace without more harassment.

Where exactly homosexuals harass Orthodox believes?