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Author Topic: Got a situation involving communion...  (Read 1781 times) Average Rating: 0
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Shlomlokh
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« Reply #45 on: September 28, 2011, 01:55:25 PM »

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I had a couple of thoughts while reading this, such as why condescend to kids and assume that they are incapable of true worship? And, why is worship supposed to be loud and fun?

i guess it still comes down to what you believe is true worship.  i dont necessarily think worship should be limited to the DL.  I even believe I saw genuine worship tonight.  My prayer before I do these things is always that people would see through the instruments, stage, loud sound system and lights and truly encounter God.   I dont see why God cant be present in those places. 
The bolded part is precisely the point - people have to get past all the noise, instruments, stage, lights and all the rest. They are a distraction. God is probably present in those places - the music is just too loud for anyone to hear Him!  Wink
Timon, I think katherineofdixie is exactly correct here. Loud noises and bright lights in the face sounds more like the scenes in movies where they're trying to force a confession or just plain torture a person.

One of the things that I have appreciated about Orthodoxy is that we are clear that God does indeed reach us through the physical world. That's why we make such a big deal out of icons, architecture, the Sacraments, etc.

i agree with you guys. but at the same time, this baptist church of tens of thousands of people isnt just going to change its ways.  at the end of the day, i believe people still worshipped. with these people who have no knowledge of Orthodoxy, im not sure how effective it would be to just have a liturgical service out of nowhere. ive certainly had all of the concerns youve mentioned for a while now. but like i said, ive seen worship in these environments, and i love the opportunity to be apart of it. i realize it may sound contradictory to my interest in Orthodoxy, but thats part of the dilemma im in.  i just dont think i could, or would necessarily need to, walk away from what i love doing even if i became Orthodox.  i would even argue that God has blessed me with the opportunity to travel and lead worship for young people, and even provide for my family in the process...

hope im not completely wrong here...


I'm not saying you are completely wrong, but are you willing to accept the possibility that you could be? It happens to each convert, so you're not alone in that regard.

In Christ,
Andrew
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"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos
Timon
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« Reply #46 on: September 28, 2011, 02:09:57 PM »

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I'm not saying you are completely wrong, but are you willing to accept the possibility that you could be? It happens to each convert, so you're not alone in that regard.

In Christ,
Andrew

Sure, I'm willing to accept that.  Im also going by what an Orthodox priest told me.  As of now, he told me not to quit.  He also seemed, by the tone of his voice, like it was rather obvious that I shouldnt quit.

Who knows, maybe that will change later.  But I would certainly be disappointed if I was told I couldnt travel and work with my band.  In the words of the priest "Its not like your playing for people who are getting wasted and using marijuana, its still a Christian environment." (I thought his wording was kind of funny, especially since he is an old man from Cyprus... ha!)

So as of now, this is what I do for a living and I love it.  I also love Orthodoxy.  I dont however understand why the two cant be done at the same time.  Maybe I could be used to inform others of Orthodoxy in my travels.  Who knows....
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katherineofdixie
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« Reply #47 on: September 28, 2011, 02:53:16 PM »

i just dont think i could, or would necessarily need to, walk away from what i love doing even if i became Orthodox. 

Imagine my consternation when I discovered that God had an altogether different plan for my life. I was on my way to seminary, in the formal discernment process for my former denom's ordained ministry, when I hit a little speed bump called Orthodoxy. I had to walk away from what I loved doing, what I thought I was called to do by God, to become Orthodox.
Not trying for pathos here or to get sympathy, or even to say that it's something you will have to do, but your whole life and world changes when you discover Orthodoxy. I think the reason is because it is real and everything else, while it may be good or pleasant or fun, or even spiritual, is just...not.

And of course that mega Baptist church can change. Not so long ago, they were singing "Just As I Am" during the altar call while an elderly lady played the piano. That's the nature of Protestantism. In a few years, the music you are playing now will be so old-fashioned, and the way they are worshipping will be considered lame and boring. That's what chasing after the fad of the moment and conforming yourselves to the world gets you.
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Timon
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« Reply #48 on: September 28, 2011, 03:02:41 PM »

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In a few years, the music you are playing now will be so old-fashioned, and the way they are worshipping will be considered lame and boring. That's what chasing after the fad of the moment and conforming yourselves to the world gets you.

This is true.  If people could understand tradition and take time to learn about the Orthodox church, without viewing it through their Protestant goggles, it would truly blow their minds as it has mine.  Something has to be realotherwise so many people wouldnt still be in love with it. 

And its not just old blue haired ladies that like it because its quiet and traditional.  People of all ages love it because they feel that "completeness" they have always been searching for. 
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« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2011, 03:26:42 PM »

yes.
that's why i love these forums, so many people saying what i am thinking!
it's the fullness, the completeness that is in orthodoxy that is so beautiful.
also telling people about orthodoxy on your travels is, i think, one reason why God keeps so many of us in our former churches for a while after we realise we are finding what we were looking for.
 Smiley
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Seraphim Rose
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« Reply #50 on: September 29, 2011, 01:47:31 AM »

Congratulations, Timon, for following your conscience in what was an awkward situation. You might have simply caved in cowardice before the eyes of men, and betrayed what you knew very well to have been true. It was an excellent choice you made. It will strengthen you in your walk toward Orthodoxy.
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« Reply #51 on: September 29, 2011, 02:27:33 AM »

Congratulations, Timon, for following your conscience in what was an awkward situation. You might have simply caved in cowardice before the eyes of men, and betrayed what you knew very well to have been true. It was an excellent choice you made. It will strengthen you in your walk toward Orthodoxy.

i definitely feel like it has. 

the main problem i face now, its trying to explain my love for an Eastern faith in a western world.  its a western world that needs an explanation for everything, verses and easter faith that doesnt require or need an explanation for everything.  the Eucharist is a great example.

I even had trouble trying to explain things to my wife.  if you are a protestant (who also has Rome-a-phopbia) and knows nothing of church history of Orthodoxy, its hard to have any kind of worth while discussion mainly because things are hard to explain at times.  i find myself having trouble defending Orthodoxy sometimes because I dont know how to put it into words.  and also its because I may be explaining something that doesnt make sense unless you understand several other things first... (hopefully youre following me here...)

since i am definitely in the minority when it comes to my friends, i feel like its me against everyone else.  the simple truth is that if people could just experience what i have experienced, it would make more sense. it also wouldnt hurt for them to read a book on the topic....

i feel like people think i am involving myself with some new-age/fringe-cult kind of stuff, when actually it is quite the opposite. this has been my struggle as of lately, and my prayer has been for God to give me the wisdom and clear words necessary to help others understand.  sometimes, i feel like everyone thinks im crazy...  Undecided
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Even if we have thousands of acts of great virtue to our credit, our confidence in being heard must be based on God's mercy and His love for men. Even if we stand at the very summit of virtue, it is by mercy that we shall be saved.

— Chrysostom

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mabsoota
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Kyrie eleison


« Reply #52 on: September 29, 2011, 07:04:09 AM »

may God guide you,
very many of us here have the same experience of you, so keep close to God, study the Bible and pray and He will guide you into all truth.
just be honest and answer questions as best you can and then bring the difficult ones here!

seraphim rose, congratulations in your step towards being a catechumen, keep us updated!
 Smiley
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