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jewish voice
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« on: September 25, 2011, 07:04:13 PM »

When you convert to Orthodoxy at the end do you get papers a card or something that states that your Orthodox? I have papers that show were I'm a Jew and can use these to go to Israel or different shuls if need be. I'm asking this cause I like the ROCOR but I maybe moving later on and I looked at the town I'm moving to and they only have a OCA church in town there. If one moves how do you prove your Orthodox? in fact even if you just visit an Orthodox church how do you prove that your Orthodox.
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« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2011, 07:13:13 PM »

You should get a baptismal certificate, possibly stamped by the bishop. Chances are priests at other parishes aren't going to demand it but it's good to keep around.
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« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2011, 07:26:06 PM »

You should get a baptismal certificate, possibly stamped by the bishop. Chances are priests at other parishes aren't going to demand it but it's good to keep around.
What if the convert is already baptized what do they get?
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Holy Father Patrick, thank you for your help!


« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2011, 07:32:58 PM »

You should get a baptismal certificate, possibly stamped by the bishop. Chances are priests at other parishes aren't going to demand it but it's good to keep around.
What if the convert is already baptized what do they get?

In cases like this the convert is given a certificate of chrismation, at least in the GOA.

Sometimes I have had folks attending a Liturgy from other parishes provide me a letter from a priest indicating that they are Orthodox.

If a person is already Orthodox and moving into town, we ask the new members to have their parish send a letter to us indicating that the person and/or family is actually Orthodox in good standing. Oftentimes they know this and have the letter with them when they come in.

At least in the GOA, we also require a similar letter if a person is going to serve as godparent or koumbaros/koumbara and are from a different parish.
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« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2011, 08:21:29 PM »

I was baptized at the age of ten in a Baptist church (and received a certificate).  When I converted to Orthodoxy in 2010 I was baptized and given a baptismal certificate with the Church seal on it.
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« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2011, 09:08:54 PM »

You should get a baptismal certificate, possibly stamped by the bishop. Chances are priests at other parishes aren't going to demand it but it's good to keep around.
What if the convert is already baptized what do they get?

I was chrismated in an Antiochian parish and about a month later I received a signed, stamped certificate from Antiochian HQ in NJ - NOT from the parish.

Don't know how the OCA does it. Depending on the priest, if you move parishes (especially if out of state), there's a chance the priest might want you to prove you're Orthodox. I treat my chrismation certificate like I do my birth certificate and my social security card.
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« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2011, 09:41:59 PM »

You should get a baptismal certificate, possibly stamped by the bishop. Chances are priests at other parishes aren't going to demand it but it's good to keep around.
What if the convert is already baptized what do they get?

In cases like this the convert is given a certificate of chrismation, at least in the GOA.

Sometimes I have had folks attending a Liturgy from other parishes provide me a letter from a priest indicating that they are Orthodox.

If a person is already Orthodox and moving into town, we ask the new members to have their parish send a letter to us indicating that the person and/or family is actually Orthodox in good standing. Oftentimes they know this and have the letter with them when they come in.

At least in the GOA, we also require a similar letter if a person is going to serve as godparent or koumbaros/koumbara and are from a different parish.

FrChris Thank you for your answer. One side question if some one is ROCOR and they move do they have to give up there ROCOR diocese and join the new diocese in which they move to. like in my case I like the old calendar over the new and how does the church handle these differences when someone moves.
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« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2011, 10:05:01 PM »

Jewish Voice,

If the new diocese did not have a ROCOR parish, the Serbian Church is on the Old Calendar as well.  Also, the Moscow Patriarchate parishes are Old Calendar, and, if I am not mistaken, some OCA parishes are on it as well.
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« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2011, 10:33:17 PM »

You should get a baptismal certificate, possibly stamped by the bishop. Chances are priests at other parishes aren't going to demand it but it's good to keep around.
What if the convert is already baptized what do they get?

In cases like this the convert is given a certificate of chrismation, at least in the GOA.

Sometimes I have had folks attending a Liturgy from other parishes provide me a letter from a priest indicating that they are Orthodox.

If a person is already Orthodox and moving into town, we ask the new members to have their parish send a letter to us indicating that the person and/or family is actually Orthodox in good standing. Oftentimes they know this and have the letter with them when they come in.

At least in the GOA, we also require a similar letter if a person is going to serve as godparent or koumbaros/koumbara and are from a different parish.

FrChris Thank you for your answer. One side question if some one is ROCOR and they move do they have to give up there ROCOR diocese and join the new diocese in which they move to. like in my case I like the old calendar over the new and how does the church handle these differences when someone moves.

Well, if a person moves from an old calendar parish to a mixed calendar parish, as long as the churches are in communion with each other it really is up to the new arrival to adjust to how the 'new' parish does things.

If the new arrival just cannot deal with a different calendar than they are used to, they are always free to go to another parish that is in communion with where they came from that uses the calendar they desire.
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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2011, 02:44:32 AM »

Whenever I visited another parish, I never had to prove that I was Orthodox.  I did bring my chrismation certificate on at least one occasion.  I have found however that most of the parish priests simply take my word for it.. there's not a huge Orthodox population around here either, so most people aren't into just randomly going to the chalice without good reason...
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« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2011, 04:49:42 AM »

You should get a baptismal certificate, possibly stamped by the bishop. Chances are priests at other parishes aren't going to demand it but it's good to keep around.
What if the convert is already baptized what do they get?

I was chrismated in an Antiochian parish and about a month later I received a signed, stamped certificate from Antiochian HQ in NJ - NOT from the parish.

Don't know how the OCA does it. Depending on the priest, if you move parishes (especially if out of state), there's a chance the priest might want you to prove you're Orthodox. I treat my chrismation certificate like I do my birth certificate and my social security card.

Interestingly, it is easier for me to get a new copy of my social security card, birth certificate, passport, license to kill at will, than my baptismal certificate from the backwater place I was baptized.

They have it. They won't just give it. lulz.

Or so it seems. Maybe the Pony Express is still in use or something out there.

When it couldn't get more strange, it has.

There has been more effort to certify my baptism than Obama's birth.

I have decided to take it as a sign that God doesn't want me in the Church.

I always assumed that to be the case, now I am getting evidence.

/kvetch

 
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« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2011, 07:10:11 AM »

When you convert to Orthodoxy at the end do you get papers a card or something that states that your Orthodox? I have papers that show were I'm a Jew and can use these to go to Israel or different shuls if need be. I'm asking this cause I like the ROCOR but I maybe moving later on and I looked at the town I'm moving to and they only have a OCA church in town there. If one moves how do you prove your Orthodox? in fact even if you just visit an Orthodox church how do you prove that your Orthodox.

You haven't heard about the handshake?
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« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2011, 07:33:32 AM »

Interestingly, it is easier for me to get a new copy of my social security card, birth certificate, passport, license to kill at will, than my baptismal certificate from the backwater place I was baptized.

They have it. They won't just give it. lulz.

I had to ask twice. It probably would have been more if I had told them that my new pastor's name was "father". Luckily, I emailed two different people the two times and the second time was the pastor.

Quote
I have decided to take it as a sign that God doesn't want me in the Church.

He just wants you to be like the widow that persisted in asking the judge.
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« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2011, 07:36:10 AM »

You haven't heard about the handshake?

Shhh!!!!!

He's not supposed to learn the handshake until after being received. It's one of those "inner mysteries" of the Church.  Wink
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« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2011, 08:16:03 AM »

You should get a baptismal certificate, possibly stamped by the bishop. Chances are priests at other parishes aren't going to demand it but it's good to keep around.
What if the convert is already baptized what do they get?

I was chrismated in an Antiochian parish and about a month later I received a signed, stamped certificate from Antiochian HQ in NJ - NOT from the parish.

Don't know how the OCA does it. Depending on the priest, if you move parishes (especially if out of state), there's a chance the priest might want you to prove you're Orthodox. I treat my chrismation certificate like I do my birth certificate and my social security card.

Interestingly, it is easier for me to get a new copy of my social security card, birth certificate, passport, license to kill at will, than my baptismal certificate from the backwater place I was baptized.

They have it. They won't just give it. lulz.

Or so it seems. Maybe the Pony Express is still in use or something out there.

When it couldn't get more strange, it has.

There has been more effort to certify my baptism than Obama's birth.

I have decided to take it as a sign that God doesn't want me in the Church.

I always assumed that to be the case, now I am getting evidence.

/kvetch

 
Have you gotten it? What can you do in lieu of that?

Mr. Ismi's church did not issue certificates (yep, he was baptized in a pool at 16 or something), because Christ apparently doesn't need a baptismal certificate to know that you are saved. He's starting from scratch at baptism. I get (fortunately or unfortunately? I wouldn't have minded either way) to be chrismated since my parents saved my RCC baptismal certificate. I do have to repent from leaving the RCC and joining the charismatics, though...
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« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2011, 09:19:39 AM »


Mr. Ismi's church did not issue certificates (yep, he was baptized in a pool at 16 or something), because Christ apparently doesn't need a baptismal certificate to know that you are saved.
Sort of like, why do you need a birth certificate to prove you've been born  Roll Eyes Huh Grin?
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« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2011, 10:18:39 AM »

When you convert to Orthodoxy at the end do you get papers a card or something that states that your Orthodox? I have papers that show were I'm a Jew and can use these to go to Israel or different shuls if need be. I'm asking this cause I like the ROCOR but I maybe moving later on and I looked at the town I'm moving to and they only have a OCA church in town there. If one moves how do you prove your Orthodox? in fact even if you just visit an Orthodox church how do you prove that your Orthodox.

You haven't heard about the handshake?

What - you guys didn't get the secret decoder ring?
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« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2011, 10:42:29 AM »

I got a baptismal certificate when I was infant-baptized at a Protestant church, though my priest did not ask to see it. At my Chrismation I got my baptismal cross from my godfather, but I never got any documentation from the Church.
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« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2011, 10:48:14 AM »

When you convert to Orthodoxy at the end do you get papers a card or something that states that your Orthodox? I have papers that show were I'm a Jew and can use these to go to Israel or different shuls if need be. I'm asking this cause I like the ROCOR but I maybe moving later on and I looked at the town I'm moving to and they only have a OCA church in town there. If one moves how do you prove your Orthodox? in fact even if you just visit an Orthodox church how do you prove that your Orthodox.

You haven't heard about the handshake?

What - you guys didn't get the secret decoder ring?
Wow, being Orthodox is so cool! I can't wait.
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« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2011, 12:46:48 PM »

When you convert to Orthodoxy at the end do you get papers a card or something that states that your Orthodox? I have papers that show were I'm a Jew and can use these to go to Israel or different shuls if need be. I'm asking this cause I like the ROCOR but I maybe moving later on and I looked at the town I'm moving to and they only have a OCA church in town there. If one moves how do you prove your Orthodox? in fact even if you just visit an Orthodox church how do you prove that your Orthodox.

We also received a certificate from the Antiochian Archdiocese of North America, signed by Metropolitan Phillip.  If we moved, I would use that as evidence of our membership in the parish.

But when visiting other parishes, I typically call in advance and tell the priest "I am a member of St. Stephen Orthodox Church, in the Antiochian Archdiocese under Bishop Antoun and Metropolitan Phillip," and I have yet to have a problem.  If they have any questions, they can always call my priest, but no one has.  Kind of an honor system, but that's really how it works in other communions as well.  When we were Lutheran and someone the pastor didn't know approached for communion, they were usually asked "are you a member of a WELS or ELS parish?"
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« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2011, 12:51:15 PM »

That's interesting David,  I didn't know there were Protestants who had "closed communion".
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« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2011, 01:40:33 PM »

That's interesting David,  I didn't know there were Protestants who had "closed communion".

Yes, confessional Lutherans and I think some Anglicans have a closed table (not sure on the latter).

Most Protestants had closed communion until about the 19th century.  It's an innovation even in Protestantism.
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« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2011, 01:53:51 PM »

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« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2011, 07:10:50 PM »

That's interesting David,  I didn't know there were Protestants who had "closed communion".

Yes, confessional Lutherans and I think some Anglicans have a closed table (not sure on the latter).

Most Protestants had closed communion until about the 19th century.  It's an innovation even in Protestantism.
What I have heard in any Anglican service that I have attended is something like, "If you may receive Communion in your own church, you are welcome to receive here."

Some Reformed Churches practise closed communion as do, I believe, the Plymouth Brethren (Gospel Halls). Probably lots more.
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« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2011, 07:12:49 PM »

I'm still waiting for my free visor and a coupon for pizza.
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« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2012, 02:58:55 PM »

Just thinking out loud, but if someone wants to become an Orthodox, why would they lie about their current status (baptized, etc.)? I can't imagine why would someone ask to be Chrismated and become one with the church, if they are not really able to do so by church's canon. That might be why priests don't usually ask you for evidence of your baptism in order to get chrismated. He may officiate the ceremony, but it is God who communes with you.
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« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2012, 03:11:30 PM »

Just thinking out loud, but if someone wants to become an Orthodox, why would they lie about their current status (baptized, etc.)? I can't imagine why would someone ask to be Chrismated and become one with the church, if they are not really able to do so by church's canon. That might be why priests don't usually ask you for evidence of your baptism in order to get chrismated. He may officiate the ceremony, but it is God who communes with you.

People lie all the time for many reasons.

If you think the desire to become Orthodox alters the above, you might have a more romanticized view of "conversion" than matches reality.
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« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2012, 04:32:16 PM »


People lie all the time for many reasons.

If you think the desire to become Orthodox alters the above, you might have a more romanticized view of "conversion" than matches reality.

Someone who approaches Orthodoxy in order to be saved and one with Jesus's church, wouldn't lie to receive said salvation. Is not like you can hide the true from God.
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