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Author Topic: Orthodoxy and alcohol...  (Read 9438 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: September 21, 2011, 09:00:20 PM »

PLEASE tell me that the Orthodox church isnt like all these southern baptist churches i work with who think if you ever drink alcohol you will burn in hell. 

I mean, I realize you shouldnt get drunk, but whats wrong with a Guinness every now and then?  Or an awesome IPA? Maybe a glass of wine with my wife?

Im pretty sure nothing is wrong with these things, but is there any specific church teaching on the matter?
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« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2011, 09:07:14 PM »

No alcohol on most Wednesdays and Fridays and during the fasting periods except on the Saturday and Sunday (pretty much every Saturday and Sunday is wine-friendly). Other than that, enjoy, but don't get ****-faced.
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« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2011, 09:11:04 PM »

Serbs drink beer all the time.

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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2011, 09:12:48 PM »

Serbs drink beer all the time.



Yeah, too bad there's never been any Serbian parishes near me. I could totally live 13 days in the past for liquid bread.
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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2011, 09:34:12 PM »

More than one psalm mentions that wine gladdens the heart; and Apostle Paul advised an ailing Timothy to not just drink water, but a little wine for his stomach's sake. Christ's first miracle was turning water into wine, and it was good wine, at that!  laugh And, of course, the Eucharist is wine mixed with water.

No alcohol on most Wednesdays and Fridays and during the fasting periods except on the Saturday and Sunday (pretty much every Saturday and Sunday is wine-friendly). Other than that, enjoy, but don't get ****-faced.

Exactly.  Smiley
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« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2011, 09:35:31 PM »

Well this is all great news.  I certainly do love a good brew. 

I was already pretty sure that this was the case, but i wanted to make sure!

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« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2011, 09:39:08 PM »

PLEASE tell me that the Orthodox church isnt like all these southern baptist churches i work with who think if you ever drink alcohol you will burn in hell.

You'll be fine as long as you're saved and accept Jesus's death on the cross as a punishment for all your sins.  Wink

But seriously, everything in moderation. They didn't drink "unfermented grape juice" back in ancient times.
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« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2011, 09:49:00 PM »

PLEASE tell me that the Orthodox church isnt like all these southern baptist churches i work with who think if you ever drink alcohol you will burn in hell.  

I mean, I realize you shouldnt get drunk, but whats wrong with a Guinness every now and then?  Or an awesome IPA? Maybe a glass of wine with my wife?

Im pretty sure nothing is wrong with these things, but is there any specific church teaching on the matter?
Actually my friend, that mentality has no basis in Christianity and is little more than a throw-back to our collective Puritanical roots. Nothing more.
it reminds me of the argument I got into with my Grandmother. She said that the wine jesus transformed from water was grape juice and that it was grape juice everytime wine was mentioned. THEN I had to go into the history of anti-fermentation techniques......*sigh*

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« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2011, 09:59:30 PM »

Serbs drink beer all the time.



And don't forget the wicked Serbian plum brandy!
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« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2011, 10:00:52 PM »

If the Orthodox didn't approve of wine, they wouldn't even mention it on the fasting calendar (at least the EO calendar, from what I know). Wink

I indulge in a lambic or sangria once in a while or get a little champagne happy twice a year. I think that drunkenness is what should be avoided at all costs, and I'm a light-weight, so it's always one or two glasses for me. And I'm okay with that!

PS. Mr. Ismi and I almost cried when they gave out wine at a church raffle. AND we hosted a wine festival! We had to "hide" our drinking at other churches because no one else we knew drank...or admitted that they did. I heard a lot of lectures about evil alcohol and used to be one of the preachers myself, until I understood that you could drink moderately and not have it lend to sin.
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« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2011, 10:07:54 PM »

Serbs drink beer all the time.



And don't forget the wicked Serbian plum brandy!
Which is awesomeness BTW Smiley

PP

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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2011, 10:08:16 PM »

PLEASE tell me that the Orthodox church isnt like all these southern baptist churches i work with who think if you ever drink alcohol you will burn in hell.  

I mean, I realize you shouldnt get drunk, but whats wrong with a Guinness every now and then?  Or an awesome IPA? Maybe a glass of wine with my wife?

Im pretty sure nothing is wrong with these things, but is there any specific church teaching on the matter?
Actually my friend, that mentality has no basis in Christianity and is little more than a throw-back to our collective Puritanical roots. Nothing more.
it reminds me of the argument I got into with my Grandmother. She said that the wine jesus transformed from water was grape juice and that it was grape juice everytime wine was mentioned. THEN I had to go into the history of anti-fermentation techniques......*sigh*

PP

yea, ive heard those arguments too.  note that i grew up protestant AND in the bible belt (southern U.S.). It seems that this is the only place on the planet where alcohol is so heavily frowned upon.

the reason i brought it up was because I do contract music work for a HUGE baptist church in my area  (i mean tens of thousands).  As we finished leading worship a guy came up and did announcements for the college gathering I do music for.  They made t-shirts and all that stuff for the event and he was advertising that.  They also made koozies with the logo of the event i play guitar for.  He said that if anyone put alcohol in the koozie, he would punch them in the face!! in his defense, he was kind of joking, but at the same time it was a serious  reflection of what these people believe about alcohol.  I mean, it was a college gathering.  Most people there already drink alcohol probably.  Why say something like that?? I hope anyone who may have been offended still comes back next week.  I realize its a Protestant church, but I personally would rather have someone hear the gospel at a protestant church than not at all.  I also think the speaker does a good job.

Anyways, thats my situation.  Thats why I brought it up!
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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2011, 10:11:18 PM »

If the Orthodox didn't approve of wine, they wouldn't even mention it on the fasting calendar (at least the EO calendar, from what I know). Wink

I indulge in a lambic or sangria once in a while or get a little champagne happy twice a year. I think that drunkenness is what should be avoided at all costs, and I'm a light-weight, so it's always one or two glasses for me. And I'm okay with that!

PS. Mr. Ismi and I almost cried when they gave out wine at a church raffle. AND we hosted a wine festival! We had to "hide" our drinking at other churches because no one else we knew drank...or admitted that they did. I heard a lot of lectures about evil alcohol and used to be one of the preachers myself, until I understood that you could drink moderately and not have it lend to sin.

yea. i agree.

I mean, Im a guy who is 23 years old and weighs close to 200 pounds.  Im not a huge guy, but I can have 2 or 3 beers without even feeling a buzz.  ESPECIALLY if I have food, too.  I dont see what the difference is in me having 3 beers while watching a football game at a pub, and me having 3 cokes. 

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« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2011, 10:19:12 PM »

As I have argued with orthonorm in another thread, if your body can take 5 or 6 beers at a time and you don't get drunk, it becomes a matter of gluttony, not drunkenness. Wink Moderation is good when it comes to this stuff!

Obviously, I'm not going to look down on someone who abstains. I hate being with people that try to "force" the non-drinkers to drink. I end up sympathizing and drinking water in the corner with the Baptists just because I feel so bad for them. But I do have a problem with thinking that drinking any alcohol whatsoever is a horrible sin.
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« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2011, 10:24:15 PM »

I just had to post no one has said anything about a good vodka I swear there's something in that vodka to make all them pretty Russian women  laugh
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« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2011, 10:24:22 PM »

Drinking unfermented grape juice in Communion, is like handling a non-venomous garter snake in a snake-handling service.
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« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2011, 10:30:38 PM »

Drinking unfermented grape juice in Communion, is like handling a non-venomous garter snake in a snake-handling service.

Except in the latter case, it's the only smart thing to do, while in the former it takes an appalling willful ignorance to advocate.
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« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2011, 10:34:20 PM »

I just had to post no one has said anything about a good vodka I swear there's something in that vodka to make all them pretty Russian women  laugh

im not a huge vodka fan.  maybe because im not russian!! haha.  i do love some good whiskey though!!
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« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2011, 10:34:53 PM »

I just had to post no one has said anything about a good vodka I swear there's something in that vodka to make all them pretty Russian women  laugh

All women are pretty if you have enough vodka!  laugh laugh laugh
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« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2011, 10:36:03 PM »



Is it wine or dairy?
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« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2011, 12:06:09 AM »

I just had to post no one has said anything about a good vodka I swear there's something in that vodka to make all them pretty Russian women  laugh

im not a huge vodka fan.  maybe because im not russian!! haha.  i do love some good whiskey though!!

I already liked my vodka (or "wodka" as Chekhov from Star Trek says), but it was taken to a whole new level when a family of Russian background in my parish brings around a frozen bottle of Stoli on Pascha while we feast on our Pascha basket contents.

Yum! Yum! Yum!
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« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2011, 02:10:22 AM »

Vodka? No.
It's all about Tequila!  Cheesy

(On a serious note I do hope my parents one day feel the same way about me becoming Orthodox as they do about me drinking. Undecided I just don't get it. It's okay to drink, but it's not okay to be Orthodox?)
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« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2011, 02:27:23 AM »

Serbs drink beer all the time.



And don't forget the wicked Serbian plum brandy!
I gotta try that.
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« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2011, 03:05:44 AM »

PLEASE tell me that the Orthodox church isnt like all these southern baptist churches i work with who think if you ever drink alcohol you will burn in hell. 

I mean, I realize you shouldnt get drunk, but whats wrong with a Guinness every now and then?  Or an awesome IPA? Maybe a glass of wine with my wife?

Im pretty sure nothing is wrong with these things, but is there any specific church teaching on the matter?

At my Serbian parish, there is a well stocked bar in the fellowship hall for weddings and other special occasions. 
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« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2011, 04:25:11 AM »

PLEASE tell me that the Orthodox church isnt like all these southern baptist churches i work with who think if you ever drink alcohol you will burn in hell. 

I mean, I realize you shouldnt get drunk, but whats wrong with a Guinness every now and then?  Or an awesome IPA? Maybe a glass of wine with my wife?

Im pretty sure nothing is wrong with these things, but is there any specific church teaching on the matter?

At my Serbian parish, there is a well stocked bar in the fellowship hall for weddings and other special occasions. 

At EVERY Serbian parish there is a well stocked bar in the fellowship hall for weddings and other special occasions.  laugh
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« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2011, 05:58:07 AM »

No alcohol on fasting days?

I never heard about that... No WINE means beer is ok.
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« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2011, 02:54:44 PM »

PLEASE tell me that the Orthodox church isnt like all these southern baptist churches i work with who think if you ever drink alcohol you will burn in hell. 

I mean, I realize you shouldnt get drunk, but whats wrong with a Guinness every now and then?  Or an awesome IPA? Maybe a glass of wine with my wife?

Im pretty sure nothing is wrong with these things, but is there any specific church teaching on the matter?

At my Serbian parish, there is a well stocked bar in the fellowship hall for weddings and other special occasions. 

At EVERY Serbian parish there is a well stocked bar in the fellowship hall for weddings and other special occasions.  laugh

Sounds like I need to join a Serbian parish...
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« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2011, 02:55:41 PM »

No alcohol on fasting days?

I never heard about that... No WINE means beer is ok.

I like the way you think.

Jeez. Everyone's gonna think I'm an alcoholic. Im not, I promise!!
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« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2011, 03:10:04 PM »

No alcohol on fasting days?

I never heard about that... No WINE means beer is ok.

I like the way you think.

Jeez. Everyone's gonna think I'm an alcoholic. Im not, I promise!!
It's okay, my entire church joins you in that. Wink
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« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2011, 03:13:27 PM »

PLEASE tell me that the Orthodox church isnt like all these southern baptist churches i work with who think if you ever drink alcohol you will burn in hell. 

I mean, I realize you shouldnt get drunk, but whats wrong with a Guinness every now and then?  Or an awesome IPA? Maybe a glass of wine with my wife?

Im pretty sure nothing is wrong with these things, but is there any specific church teaching on the matter?

At my Serbian parish, there is a well stocked bar in the fellowship hall for weddings and other special occasions. 

At EVERY Serbian parish there is a well stocked bar in the fellowship hall for weddings and other special occasions.  laugh

  laugh
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« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2011, 03:49:30 PM »

Oh boy, once you start talking with an Orthodox about wine and spirits, get ready for an earful (and quite possibly a mouthful)!  Cheesy
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« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2011, 04:06:36 PM »

Oh boy, once you start talking with an Orthodox about wine and spirits, get ready for an earful (and quite possibly a mouthful)!  Cheesy
Or even a snootfull! (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/snootful) for those not familiar

PP
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« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2011, 04:13:48 PM »

Oh boy, once you start talking with an Orthodox about wine and spirits, get ready for an earful (and quite possibly a mouthful)!  Cheesy
Or even a snootfull! (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/snootful) for those not familiar

PP

Snootfull!!! I've never heard that before, but I'm going to start using that term. Haha.
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« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2011, 04:26:42 PM »

Oh boy, once you start talking with an Orthodox about wine and spirits, get ready for an earful (and quite possibly a mouthful)!  Cheesy
Or even a snootfull! (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/snootful) for those not familiar

PP

Snootfull!!! I've never heard that before, but I'm going to start using that term. Haha.

You're in the South and never heard that? Really? You must be in Yankee friendly territory (a rareity where you're at  Cheesy Cheesy)


PP
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« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2011, 04:44:35 PM »

Oh boy, once you start talking with an Orthodox about wine and spirits, get ready for an earful (and quite possibly a mouthful)!  Cheesy
Or even a snootfull! (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/snootful) for those not familiar

PP



Snootfull!!! I've never heard that before, but I'm going to start using that term. Haha.

You're in the South and never heard that? Really? You must be in Yankee friendly territory (a rareity where you're at  Cheesy Cheesy)


PP

I don't know why I haven't heard it, but I'm certainly not in Yankee territory! I'm from the country (although my hometown has grown alot the last ten years!). They used to have to pressure wash my high school parking lot because all the mud them boys would bring in on their truck tires! (school was on a dirt road.) now, I live 5 min from ATL and even still the county I live in is the reddest (republican) county in the state. Haha.

Guess I've just been livin under a rock!
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« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2011, 04:53:09 PM »

Oh boy, once you start talking with an Orthodox about wine and spirits, get ready for an earful (and quite possibly a mouthful)!  Cheesy
Or even a snootfull! (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/snootful) for those not familiar

PP



Snootfull!!! I've never heard that before, but I'm going to start using that term. Haha.

You're in the South and never heard that? Really? You must be in Yankee friendly territory (a rareity where you're at  Cheesy Cheesy)


PP

I don't know why I haven't heard it, but I'm certainly not in Yankee territory! I'm from the country (although my hometown has grown alot the last ten years!). They used to have to pressure wash my high school parking lot because all the mud them boys would bring in on their truck tires! (school was on a dirt road.) now, I live 5 min from ATL and even still the county I live in is the reddest (republican) county in the state. Haha.

Guess I've just been livin under a rock!
Dry county maybe? Smiley

PP
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« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2011, 05:16:26 PM »

Certainly not! Haha.
Oh boy, once you start talking with an Orthodox about wine and spirits, get ready for an earful (and quite possibly a mouthful)!  Cheesy
Or even a snootfull! (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/snootful) for those not familiar

PP



Snootfull!!! I've never heard that before, but I'm going to start using that term. Haha.

You're in the South and never heard that? Really? You must be in Yankee friendly territory (a rareity where you're at  Cheesy Cheesy)


PP

I don't know why I haven't heard it, but I'm certainly not in Yankee territory! I'm from the country (although my hometown has grown alot the last ten years!). They used to have to pressure wash my high school parking lot because all the mud them boys would bring in on their truck tires! (school was on a dirt road.) now, I live 5 min from ATL and even still the county I live in is the reddest (republican) county in the state. Haha.

Guess I've just been livin under a rock!
Dry county maybe? Smiley

PP
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« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2011, 05:56:57 PM »

i grew up protestant AND in the bible belt (southern U.S.). It seems that this is the only place on the planet where alcohol is so heavily frowned upon.

I am embarassed to tell you that, unfortunately, in my "old" home country, Ukraine, Pentecostals and Seventh Day Adventists also preach complete abstention from alcohol.

My wife once was invited to a Ukrainian Pentecostal wedding and had the weirdest impression. She said it was just surreal. She ran away very soon.

And yes, where I live now, in the Southeastern USA, you see this exaggerated hate of alcohol all the time. A few years ago, my wife and I were at a Methodist wedding. A co-worker of my wife's, a guy from Croatia who was also at that wedding, said, "you know, I think when my Croatian grandfather died and we had a wake, people had much more fun than they are having here today..."
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« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2011, 06:13:28 PM »


I am embarassed to tell you that, unfortunately, in my "old" home country, Ukraine, Pentecostals and Seventh Day Adventists also preach complete abstention from alcohol.
Yes, but that is not part of Ukrainian culture at all. These are American-sponsored groups that have existed in Ukraine only for 20 years. And while they might attract some people wo want to stop drinking, or women wo suffer from alcoholic husbands, the vast majority of Ukrainians would never embrace a "dry" religion. Glory to God for that.
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« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2011, 08:18:14 PM »

Although I'm not 100% non-drinking, I do drink a lot less than I used to. I have to. I had a problem. Also, I was in a bad car wreck years ago. That really puts the damper on it. I don't bother those who drink, but I hope they'd do the same for me. It would be a shame if I go to a wedding and I'm not drunk and people think I'm a jerk because of that.
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« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2011, 08:57:08 PM »

Although I'm not 100% non-drinking, I do drink a lot less than I used to. I have to. I had a problem. Also, I was in a bad car wreck years ago. That really puts the damper on it. I don't bother those who drink, but I hope they'd do the same for me. It would be a shame if I go to a wedding and I'm not drunk and people think I'm a jerk because of that.

I wouldn't. Sad I don't drink all that often either (sometimes it's boring + I'm perpetually broke). It seems like a strange phenomenon to me to pressure non drinkers into drinking. I've never seen that. I do see people try to pressure them into accepting it (i.e. force them to stop saying it's wrong)... Not sure what to say to that.
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« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2011, 09:54:40 PM »

Serbs drink beer all the time.

Beer is the staple of my diet during the fasting periods. Thank God for liquid bread, and thank God that I was received by the Serbs.
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« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2011, 11:10:08 PM »

No alcohol on most Wednesdays and Fridays and during the fasting periods except on the Saturday and Sunday (pretty much every Saturday and Sunday is wine-friendly). Other than that, enjoy, but don't get ****-faced.
My priest is of the opinion that beer does not fall under the fast, though I don't know how feelings go on that.
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« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2011, 11:47:56 PM »

I thank god I do not need to ask the honourable priesthood and the (sub)diaconate in Christ as to what to eat or drink.
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« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2011, 12:23:02 AM »

Soju all the way.
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