Author Topic: Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'  (Read 5367 times)

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Offline Maria

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Re: Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'
« Reply #90 on: September 21, 2011, 04:49:16 PM »
"Gather Us In."
All I had to do was read those three words and now I'm singing it from memory.  Thanks a lot.

If I must suffer with "musical doggerel" (I like it!), others must, too.

"Eye Has Not Seen" what I have in store for those of you who have "Taste[d] and See[n]" the [sarcasm]musical genius[/sarcasm] that is Marty Haugen.  "We Remember" that "We Are Many Parts," so "Rejoice! Rejoice!"









Yes, I'm terrible.

LOL...nonono...I meant that I like the Ear Worms: Musical Doggerel nexus.  I had never heard of Ear Worms before and I always called it Musical Doggerel...



I know.  In this case, though, the ear worms ARE music doggerel.

And I just like the word "doggerel."

doh... :D

Me too...

I still love to hear my old parish sing musical doggerel with gusto and faith...I dunno...Sounds ok to me then....

M.

Nothing like people singing praises to God with joy, enthusiasm, faith, and love!!  You know, like they really *mean* it!  Doggerel?  Here's "doggerel" : :" loosely styled and irregular in measure especially for burlesque or comic effect; also : marked by triviality or inferiority"

And it ain't what I hear in the church (Catholic) I attend every week.  I hear folks singing their hearts out every Sunday, and while I may not particularly like a given hymn or rendering of a hymn (it's all a matter of opinion, anyway, isn't it?) the words, as far as I know, are always theologically correct and sung with the joy, and praise, and thanksgiving the Psalms speak of.  And, oh how refreshing it is, too!  Chant of whatever variety it may not be, but so what?!  It is, in contrast to what I've experienced elsewhere, soul lifting.

You've yet to hear the latest reiteration of "City of God" where the bridge (the fact that I'm using the word "bridge" in a song sung during a liturgy makes my skin crawl) has been neutered.

That was not soul lifting.  It was soul crushing. 

Could be.  What do I know, anyway?  I love to sing, and do so, so I'm told, rather badly  ;).  I'm no musician and am not even sure what a musical bridge is, nor do I really care.  What I rejoice in is, as I said, the sheer joy, enthusiasm, pleasure, and gratefulness which I hear when those who fill my church belt out their praise and thanksgiving to the God that gave them voices to do so.


Will the response, "And also with you" be chanted? Or does the congregation have the option to recite it?

The old saying, "To sing is to pray twice" comes to mind.
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'
« Reply #91 on: September 21, 2011, 04:58:29 PM »
"Gather Us In."
All I had to do was read those three words and now I'm singing it from memory.  Thanks a lot.

If I must suffer with "musical doggerel" (I like it!), others must, too.

"Eye Has Not Seen" what I have in store for those of you who have "Taste[d] and See[n]" the [sarcasm]musical genius[/sarcasm] that is Marty Haugen.  "We Remember" that "We Are Many Parts," so "Rejoice! Rejoice!"









Yes, I'm terrible.

LOL...nonono...I meant that I like the Ear Worms: Musical Doggerel nexus.  I had never heard of Ear Worms before and I always called it Musical Doggerel...



I know.  In this case, though, the ear worms ARE music doggerel.

And I just like the word "doggerel."

doh... :D

Me too...

I still love to hear my old parish sing musical doggerel with gusto and faith...I dunno...Sounds ok to me then....

M.

Nothing like people singing praises to God with joy, enthusiasm, faith, and love!!  You know, like they really *mean* it!  Doggerel?  Here's "doggerel" : :" loosely styled and irregular in measure especially for burlesque or comic effect; also : marked by triviality or inferiority"

And it ain't what I hear in the church (Catholic) I attend every week.  I hear folks singing their hearts out every Sunday, and while I may not particularly like a given hymn or rendering of a hymn (it's all a matter of opinion, anyway, isn't it?) the words, as far as I know, are always theologically correct and sung with the joy, and praise, and thanksgiving the Psalms speak of.  And, oh how refreshing it is, too!  Chant of whatever variety it may not be, but so what?!  It is, in contrast to what I've experienced elsewhere, soul lifting.

You've yet to hear the latest reiteration of "City of God" where the bridge (the fact that I'm using the word "bridge" in a song sung during a liturgy makes my skin crawl) has been neutered.

That was not soul lifting.  It was soul crushing. 

Could be.  What do I know, anyway?  I love to sing, and do so, so I'm told, rather badly  ;).  I'm no musician and am not even sure what a musical bridge is, nor do I really care.  What I rejoice in is, as I said, the sheer joy, enthusiasm, pleasure, and gratefulness which I hear when those who fill my church belt out their praise and thanksgiving to the God that gave them voices to do so.


Will the response, "And also with you" be chanted? Or does the congregation have the option to recite it?

The old saying, "To sing is to pray twice" comes to mind.

Actually, the response will be "And with your spirit".  As for the option to recite or chant it, I don't know.  I guess that will depend on the parish and the priest.  Don't know yet what we will be doing.

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline Maria

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Re: Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'
« Reply #92 on: September 21, 2011, 05:03:02 PM »
Sorry, as a former Roman  Catholic, even I have problems adjusting to all the changes in the Catholic Church.
So, when I came into Orthodoxy, I had to quickly revert to the Pre-Vatican II response, "And with thy spirit" or "And to thy spirit."

I like the Orthodox joke about changing lightbulbs.

How many Orthodox Christians does it take to change a lightbulb?

CHANGE? What is this thing called Change?

Is outrage. Did 19th Century Russia have lightbulbs?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 05:05:05 PM by Maria »
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Offline Keble

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Re: Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'
« Reply #93 on: September 21, 2011, 07:28:36 PM »
"Eye Has Not Seen" what I have in store for those of you who have "Taste[d] and See[n]" the [sarcasm]musical genius[/sarcasm] that is Marty Haugen.  "We Remember" that "We Are Many Parts," so "Rejoice! Rejoice!"

Now, you can't blame "Taste and See" on ol' Marty. Someone named James Moore appears to be responsible for that one.


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Re: Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'
« Reply #94 on: September 22, 2011, 02:16:32 AM »
There are some pretty aweful hymnals in other languages as well. Has anyone every had to listen to the music found in this one?

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Offline Ioannis Climacus

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Re: Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'
« Reply #95 on: September 22, 2011, 10:51:43 PM »
There are some pretty aweful hymnals in other languages as well. Has anyone every had to listen to the music found in this one?


That one is awful. My old seminary used to use excerpts for the monthly mariachi Mass. It was a pretty unpleasant experience to say the least.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 10:52:15 PM by Ioannis Climacus »
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Offline WetCatechumen

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Re: Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'
« Reply #96 on: September 23, 2011, 12:36:25 AM »
There are some pretty aweful hymnals in other languages as well. Has anyone every had to listen to the music found in this one?


This is why I try not to sleep in on Sundays.
"And because they have nothing better to do, they take cushion and chairs to Rome. And while the Pope is saying liturgy, they go, 'Oh, oh, oh, filioque!' And the Pope say, 'Filioque? That-uh sound nice! I think I divide-uh the Church over it!'" - Comrade Real Presence

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Re: Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'
« Reply #97 on: September 23, 2011, 10:04:51 AM »
There are some pretty aweful hymnals in other languages as well. Has anyone every had to listen to the music found in this one?


This is why I try not to sleep in on Sundays.
This is the reason that if I do sleep in on Sunday, I always feel like my day has been ruined.  :D
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Offline WetCatechumen

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Re: Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'
« Reply #98 on: September 23, 2011, 11:22:01 PM »
I had to go to the bilingual Mass two weeks ago. :(

I went to High Mass last Sunday and Msgr. celebrated ad orientem. It was awesome!
"And because they have nothing better to do, they take cushion and chairs to Rome. And while the Pope is saying liturgy, they go, 'Oh, oh, oh, filioque!' And the Pope say, 'Filioque? That-uh sound nice! I think I divide-uh the Church over it!'" - Comrade Real Presence

Offline Robb

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Re: Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'
« Reply #99 on: September 24, 2011, 12:24:27 AM »
And as someone who grew up in the heyday of the accordion-and-tambourine era of Catholicism (with liturgical dance! woohoo!), the sooner that generation of service music is obsolete, the better.

Hey, the Catholics have only themselves to blame for that. The Anglicans have been singing perfectly good settings of the ICET texts, with monster pipe organs, for forty years. Heck, even Marty Haugen isn't too bad if you back it up with a killer Lutheran organ.

I beg to differ.  My parish growing up had a great big organ and a killer organist and those songs are still atrocious. 

But they're also ear worms and on the off chance I hear something that even approximates one of Haugen's melodies, they all come flooding back.  I was noodling around on the guitar the other other day and all of a sudden found myself playing the melody to "Gather Us In." 

I haven't touched my guitar since.

I suffer from the same symptoms.  I can't remember much of what I was taught in Catholic school (If they bothered to teach me anything).  I can't even remember how to say the Rosary sometimes, but damned if I can never forget a single lyric of those Haugen /Schute hymns.  As soon as I hear the opening verse of s single song, or even a melody that's sounds like it I can a automatically begin either singing or reciting all the words from every single stanza to myself. 
Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert

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Re: Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'
« Reply #100 on: September 24, 2011, 12:26:48 AM »
My question really is WHY didn't they or don't they re-introduce some of the prayers, like the older Confiteor in the vernacular?  They are nicer, they are more encompassing.  Does the powers that be in the Roman Catholic ICEL know that English speaking countries have a high literacy rate and people are atually intelligent enough to remember AND say more in-depth prayers?
For example
I confess to almighty God
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have greatly sinned,
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done and in what I have failed to do,
through my fault, through my fault,
through my most grievous fault;
therefore I ask blessed Mary ever-Virgin,
all the Angels and Saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the Lord our God
The new ICEL Confiteor

The pre-1970 Confietor
I confess to Almighty God, to blessed Mary ever Virgin, to blessed Michael the Archangel, to blessed John the Baptist, to the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, to all the Saints, and to you, brethren: that I have sinned exceedingly in thought, word and deed: through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault. Therefore I beseech blessed Mary ever Virgin, blessed Michael the Archangel, blessed John the Baptist, the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, all the Saints, and you, brethren, to pray for me to the Lord our God.



Unfortunately the RC hierarchy has a tendency to treat the laity like children and are deathly afraid of giving them too much meat to chew least they proverbially chock on it (Their fears, not mine). 

If you feel that way, why did you convert back to Catholicism?
I have headed East and have stayed there, content that I no longer have to deal with the repeated insane changes in the Mass and Sacraments.

I was complaning more about the bureaucracy and management of my Church rather then anything spiritual.  All churches, religions and hierarchies have this type of politics and mismanagement in dealing with the laity. 
Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert

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Re: Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'
« Reply #101 on: September 24, 2011, 01:59:26 PM »
There are some pretty aweful hymnals in other languages as well. Has anyone every had to listen to the music found in this one?



That's interesting. "Flower and song" was the Aztec name for poetry. Any hymns to Tezcatlipoca in there?

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Re: Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'
« Reply #102 on: September 24, 2011, 02:44:34 PM »
When I was still at an RCC parish a couple years ago, I used to enjoy the weekday Masses better than the Sunday one, because the weekdays didn't have singing.

Offline lubeltri

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Re: Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'
« Reply #103 on: September 24, 2011, 03:10:05 PM »
I was at the National Shrine of the Divine Mercy in Stockbridge, Mass., yesterday, and I was happy to see in the pews the St. Michael Hymnal. It's wonderful! Latin settings, lots of chants, only the best hymns.

http://www.stmichaelhymnal.com/

I am not surprised that the order that runs the shrine, the Marians of the Immaculate Conception, is full of young priests.

Offline WetCatechumen

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Re: Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'
« Reply #104 on: September 25, 2011, 10:01:11 PM »
I was at the National Shrine of the Divine Mercy in Stockbridge, Mass., yesterday, and I was happy to see in the pews the St. Michael Hymnal. It's wonderful! Latin settings, lots of chants, only the best hymns.

http://www.stmichaelhymnal.com/

I am not surprised that the order that runs the shrine, the Marians of the Immaculate Conception, is full of young priests.
That is the other hymnal my parish uses. It's excellent.
"And because they have nothing better to do, they take cushion and chairs to Rome. And while the Pope is saying liturgy, they go, 'Oh, oh, oh, filioque!' And the Pope say, 'Filioque? That-uh sound nice! I think I divide-uh the Church over it!'" - Comrade Real Presence

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Re: Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'
« Reply #105 on: September 26, 2011, 06:34:47 PM »
I had to go to the bilingual Mass two weeks ago. :(

I went to High Mass last Sunday and Msgr. celebrated ad orientem. It was awesome!
Unfortunately I missed that. I love the manner in which he celebrates the mass.
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Re: Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'
« Reply #106 on: September 26, 2011, 06:34:47 PM »
There are some pretty aweful hymnals in other languages as well. Has anyone every had to listen to the music found in this one?



That's interesting. "Flower and song" was the Aztec name for poetry. Any hymns to Tezcatlipoca in there?
When St. Juan Diego saw the Blessed Virgin Mary, he said that she looked like "flor y canto".
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Re: Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'
« Reply #107 on: September 26, 2011, 06:34:47 PM »
I was at the National Shrine of the Divine Mercy in Stockbridge, Mass., yesterday, and I was happy to see in the pews the St. Michael Hymnal. It's wonderful! Latin settings, lots of chants, only the best hymns.

http://www.stmichaelhymnal.com/

I am not surprised that the order that runs the shrine, the Marians of the Immaculate Conception, is full of young priests.
Yes, our parish purchased these a few years ago and we quite enjoy it.
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Re: Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'
« Reply #108 on: September 28, 2011, 08:42:47 AM »
There are some pretty aweful hymnals in other languages as well. Has anyone every had to listen to the music found in this one?



That's interesting. "Flower and song" was the Aztec name for poetry. Any hymns to Tezcatlipoca in there?
When St. Juan Diego saw the Blessed Virgin Mary, he said that she looked like "flor y canto".

Very interesting. Thanks.

Offline bogdan

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Re: Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'
« Reply #109 on: September 28, 2011, 09:35:54 AM »
I was at the National Shrine of the Divine Mercy in Stockbridge, Mass., yesterday, and I was happy to see in the pews the St. Michael Hymnal. It's wonderful! Latin settings, lots of chants, only the best hymns.

http://www.stmichaelhymnal.com/

I am not surprised that the order that runs the shrine, the Marians of the Immaculate Conception, is full of young priests.

The recordings on this page are beautiful. Using this hymnal must lead to very fulfilling worship. Very nice.

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Re: Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'
« Reply #110 on: September 28, 2011, 09:44:48 AM »
There are some pretty aweful hymnals in other languages as well. Has anyone every had to listen to the music found in this one?



That's interesting. "Flower and song" was the Aztec name for poetry. Any hymns to Tezcatlipoca in there?
When St. Juan Diego saw the Blessed Virgin Mary, he said that she looked like "flor y canto".

Very interesting. Thanks.

By the way, the Aztec poetry I've read (in translation) has been beautiful and full of wisdom. I highly recommend Miguel Leon-Portilla's book 15 Poets of the Aztec World.

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Re: Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'
« Reply #111 on: September 28, 2011, 06:49:09 PM »
I was at the National Shrine of the Divine Mercy in Stockbridge, Mass., yesterday, and I was happy to see in the pews the St. Michael Hymnal. It's wonderful! Latin settings, lots of chants, only the best hymns.

http://www.stmichaelhymnal.com/

I am not surprised that the order that runs the shrine, the Marians of the Immaculate Conception, is full of young priests.

I visited that shrine a few years ago. It's lovely.  :angel: I've thought about moving to that area.