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Author Topic: I have a question about free will and God  (Read 1019 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: September 13, 2011, 04:07:23 PM »

So a pregnant woman and two little girls (both two years old) were sitting on their porch when somebody opened fire on them. All three were hit. One of the little girls is dead while the other girl and the pregnant woman are in critical condition.

So how come God doesn't stop a scenario like this? Is it because it impedes our free will?
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« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2011, 06:34:33 PM »

I recommend reading this article about not everything happening for a reason, it's only tangentially related but it is somewhat related: http://semantron.wordpress.com/2010/12/09/not-everything-happens-for-a-reason/

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« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2011, 06:42:58 PM »

Very moving.
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« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2011, 06:48:18 PM »

So a pregnant woman and two little girls (both two years old) were sitting on their porch when somebody opened fire on them. All three were hit. One of the little girls is dead while the other girl and the pregnant woman are in critical condition.

So how come God doesn't stop a scenario like this? Is it because it impedes our free will?

Yes.

It is up to us to accept or reject holiness. Our choices (with our free will), will necessarily affect others, both good and bad.
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« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2011, 07:08:44 PM »

So a pregnant woman and two little girls (both two years old) were sitting on their porch when somebody opened fire on them. All three were hit. One of the little girls is dead while the other girl and the pregnant woman are in critical condition.

So how come God doesn't stop a scenario like this? Is it because it impedes our free will?

That's the question Job asks and simply there is no answer we can receive. God's answer, at that point, was simply that we are unable to understand why he allows evil.

But, with Jesus Christ, although we still don't get an answer to this question, we get something we did not ask for: we learn that God became one of us and suffered the same kind of ignomy, the same kind of injustices, the same kind of death caused by the emptiness of a human soul. And also He provides us with another information that Job did not have:

Quote
I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed {thee}? or thirsty, and gave {thee} drink?
When saw we thee a stranger, and took {thee} in? or naked, and clothed {thee}?
Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done {it} unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done {it} unto me.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did {it} not to one of the least of these, ye did {it} not to me.
St. Matthew 25:35-45

God informs us that wherever there is this kind of abomination, although we don't understand why He allows it to happen, He has not abandoned these people - He is there, dying with them. Each time it happens, cosubstantial with their nature as much as He is with the Father's nature. You and I may die a horrible death. He has died, is dying and will die all the horrible deaths of each person who ever lived and will live.

I don't know why He doesn't stop it. All I know is that He was there being shot and He was there waiting for His children.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2011, 07:09:55 PM by Fabio Leite » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2011, 04:21:51 PM »

Sometimes it helps to look at the question in reverse. What would happen if He did intervene? Would He then, being just, prevent every evil? How would that affect our growth? How would our behavior matter if there were no consequences? How would we treat our fellow man, especially children, if somehow they were exempt from harm or death: knowing human nature, would we treasure and protect them, or would they become subject to exploitation and abuse?

Just my thoughts on these matters...
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2011, 04:37:00 PM »

I would also add, although it does sound a bit harsh....the lives lost are God's who can take it back when He wants to.

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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2011, 05:30:59 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

In this scenario I would say that the interaction of free-will only is in consequence to the firing of the gun itself.  God alone controls life and death, some folks survive horrifying injury, others die peacefully in their sleep.  God allows our free-will to interact within His Creation, however, in regards to larger matters of life and death we can suppose that the Omnipotence of God trumps the powerful gift of human free will.  Humans can chose to shoot the gun, but only God can decide whether or not to take the life of the shooting victim. 

Personally, I conceive of human free-will being similar to the way we physically operate within gravity or other fundamental cosmological forces.  God has predesigned all the parameters of the Cosmos, just as  a programmer designs all of the environs of a video game or a simulator, and we have the entire free-will to interact within any of the variables or parameters of God's Creation, however as Creator and Sustainer, God is perpetually in full control and yet also grants perfect free-will.  We can chose any of our options, just as in the three dimensional world we can move our hands up or down, left or right, and yet the fundamental forces such as gravity are always present interacting with our decisions.  We only are free to make choices grounded in the reality of the interaction of the forces, just as we are only free to make the decisions within the opportunities that God provides. 

So in this example, the free-will was to shoot or not to shoot, to duck or not to duck, to have been at the wrong place at the wrong time or to have been in the right place, several converging factors determine the outcome, but the overall conclusion is on God.

stay blessed,
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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2011, 06:54:24 PM »

I recently heard this & it was very powerful for me:

If we were never born, then our incarnation of ourselves would never have the opportunity at the general resurrection of Christ, to sit at the right hand of the father, and eternally be with him in the kingdom. 

we must constantly remind ourselves that we were created for the next life.  Lord grant us one more day to repent. 
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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2011, 10:24:50 PM »

He giveth and taketh away.

Our lives were given to us by God, and he can reclaim us at the hour of his choosing.  Whether it be in joy or tragedy.   We must thank him for the time we are here.

Since we are his, the time is his, he can reclaim at any moment.
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« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2011, 10:40:18 PM »

Re: The dead girl.  Assuming she lived a fairly good (from the Orthodox pov) life, then it's safe to hope and think that she is in a place infinitely better than what we're experiencing or hoping for.  The hard truth about the Orthodox outlook on death: for the (truly striving to be) righteous, death is a welcome time.  If that girl is in the dwelling place of the righteous, then her death is no tragedy.
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« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2011, 08:53:57 PM »

So a pregnant woman and two little girls (both two years old) were sitting on their porch when somebody opened fire on them. All three were hit. One of the little girls is dead while the other girl and the pregnant woman are in critical condition.

So how come God doesn't stop a scenario like this? Is it because it impedes our free will?

Because there is no God.
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« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2011, 08:59:25 PM »

So a pregnant woman and two little girls (both two years old) were sitting on their porch when somebody opened fire on them. All three were hit. One of the little girls is dead while the other girl and the pregnant woman are in critical condition.

So how come God doesn't stop a scenario like this? Is it because it impedes our free will?

Because there is no God.
You're right! I have never considered that before. Thank you for enlightening me.
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« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2011, 07:47:58 AM »

You're right! I have never considered that before. Thank you for enlightening me.

OK, then. Why do you believe God does exist?
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« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2011, 08:33:21 AM »

You're right! I have never considered that before. Thank you for enlightening me.

OK, then. Why do you believe God does exist?

That is not the teaching of Islam.
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« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2011, 08:35:53 AM »

It's called "faith" for a reason, and that answer will never satisfy an atheist, so I won't go any further than that. Continue trying to convert my poor, deluded soul.
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« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2011, 08:52:23 AM »

Because there is no God.

Just keep it to one thread.
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« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2011, 10:24:51 AM »

You're right! I have never considered that before. Thank you for enlightening me.

OK, then. Why do you believe God does exist?
Why troll such things on a christian board?

PP
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« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2011, 11:21:26 AM »

You're right! I have never considered that before. Thank you for enlightening me.

OK, then. Why do you believe God does exist?
Why troll such things on a christian board?

PP

To give everyone here a chance to respond in wisdom.
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« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2011, 11:24:18 AM »

You're right! I have never considered that before. Thank you for enlightening me.

OK, then. Why do you believe God does exist?
Why troll such things on a christian board?

PP

To give everyone here a chance to respond in wisdom.
*grumble* You're right of course.....

PP
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« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2011, 11:29:44 AM »

You're right! I have never considered that before. Thank you for enlightening me.

OK, then. Why do you believe God does exist?
Why troll such things on a christian board?

PP

To give everyone here a chance to respond in wisdom.
*grumble* You're right of course.....

PP

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