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Author Topic: A hypothetical if you will.....  (Read 2191 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: September 13, 2011, 03:04:12 PM »

*ugh* I ask one question and poof....beaten paths spring out of the ground.....just like dwarves.

PP
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« Reply #46 on: September 13, 2011, 03:04:22 PM »

Sex tourism is the industry of prostitution, and often, children prostitution. Women and girls (but also some young men and boys) are abused in a dark market to service pervets. True, locals also use prostitutes, but in the main touristic cities, it's foreigners (from all over the world, not just one country) that foment it the most. The additional problem with foreigners is precisely that people usually don't have to travel abroad to get "usual" prostitutes, that is, adult women. When a person seeks it in another country it's because the person is seeking something that is considered a more serious crime in their home country. Usually, they are pedophiles and/or violent men.

Lord have mercy. That was so troubling to read. I pray things improve as Brazil develops economically and has the resources end this evil.
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« Reply #47 on: September 13, 2011, 03:09:13 PM »

Sex tourism is the industry of prostitution, and often, children prostitution. Women and girls (but also some young men and boys) are abused in a dark market to service pervets. True, locals also use prostitutes, but in the main touristic cities, it's foreigners (from all over the world, not just one country) that foment it the most. The additional problem with foreigners is precisely that people usually don't have to travel abroad to get "usual" prostitutes, that is, adult women. When a person seeks it in another country it's because the person is seeking something that is considered a more serious crime in their home country. Usually, they are pedophiles and/or violent men.

Lord have mercy. That was so troubling to read. I pray things improve as Brazil develops economically and has the resources end this evil.

Me having done the research on such a subject, can say that money and economic development doesn't sex industry end per se. Especially, when there is little to no social pressure put on the country. In the EE it is different, since the EU can press them for entrance.

Brazil is going through their gilded age. It is a booming market and people are making money hand over fist by any means. Usually, what happens during a booming economic  period in a country with little to no organized government or one which is willing to allow such things to go on for the cash, which means every nation throughout times.

If you knew the amount of time and money the company I work for puts into Brazil, it is mind boggling.

Brazil and China. Vastly different. Similar markets opening.
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« Reply #48 on: September 13, 2011, 03:10:57 PM »

Yes, because if he did such a thing he would not be the Pope so it would be impossible for him to speak from the chair of St. Peter.

And herein lies the problem. How does Rome back away from these claims of Papal infallibility & such without causing more havoc in their Church? It may require a few generations of slowly backing away from these claims until they have a more correct ecclesiology.

I think a lot of things can be reconciled but Papal Infallibility & Supremacy simply can't. I make my comments as one who greatly admires the RCC and earnestly wants union.
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« Reply #49 on: September 13, 2011, 03:18:40 PM »

Part of the West, namely North America (at least North of Mexico) is autocephalous.

According to some, not all.
Then Constantinople, the Church of Greece, Serbia and Romania can join North America back again under the Pope of Rome.

Simply because they disagree with your view of OCA autocephaly?? That seems rather harsh.
No, because their rejection of the OCA's autocephaly undermines their own claims to it as well.

Unlikely the OCA, those churches do have universally-recognised autocephaly.

They do now, except for Rome.  Rome didn't agree or recognize the autocephaly of Constantinople until 1214, after it had fallen into schism and heresy, and after it sacked the see and put up its own suffragan on St. John Chrysostom's throne.  AFAIK never gave up its claims on the lands that the Iconoclast emperors switched to from Rome to New Rome which now make up the Church of Greece and the Church of Albania, as well as the Patriarchates of Serbia nd Romania.  If the OCA's Tomos doesn't bind Rome, there is no reason it would be bound by any of the Tomoi of these Churches as well, except for Constantinople, perhaps:but then its territory is beyond what Constantinople I and Chalcedon defined for it.

The Phanar didn't recognize the autocephaly of Georgia until 1990. Since Georgia had been granted autcephaly in 486 by its Mother Church of Antioch, it didn't hold its breath for Constantinople's approval.  As long as canonical communion is not disturbed, it's not a problem.

In any case, union with Rome is by no means certain. Hypothetical or no hypothetical, the cart does not go before the horse.
Cardinal Ratzinger was talking more sensibly when he spoke of the various Episcopal Conferences evolving into autonomous/sui juris churches, but then Pope Benedict XVI abolished the Patriarchate of the West without such a devolution.
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« Reply #50 on: September 13, 2011, 03:20:08 PM »

Me having done the research on such a subject, can say that money and economic development doesn't sex industry end per se. Especially, when there is little to no social pressure put on the country. In the EE it is different, since the EU can press them for entrance.

Brazil is going through their gilded age. It is a booming market and people are making money hand over fist by any means. Usually, what happens during a booming economic  period in a country with little to no organized government or one which is willing to allow such things to go on for the cash, which means every nation throughout times.

If you knew the amount of time and money the company I work for puts into Brazil, it is mind boggling.

Brazil and China. Vastly different. Similar markets opening.

Sorry for not being more clear, I meant in regards to child prostitution. I'd say economic development should eventually do away with it or at least drive it deep, deep underground. And, I do think poverty plays an important factor. But, your comparison of Brazil & China is a good one.
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« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2011, 03:20:22 PM »

I would love reunion. Im sure it disappoints God that we're so fractitious.

In other news, Brazil should not host the World Cup. There I said it.

PP
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« Reply #52 on: September 13, 2011, 03:33:29 PM »

Me having done the research on such a subject, can say that money and economic development doesn't sex industry end per se. Especially, when there is little to no social pressure put on the country. In the EE it is different, since the EU can press them for entrance.

Brazil is going through their gilded age. It is a booming market and people are making money hand over fist by any means. Usually, what happens during a booming economic  period in a country with little to no organized government or one which is willing to allow such things to go on for the cash, which means every nation throughout times.

If you knew the amount of time and money the company I work for puts into Brazil, it is mind boggling.

Brazil and China. Vastly different. Similar markets opening.

Sorry for not being more clear, I meant in regards to child prostitution. I'd say economic development should eventually do away with it or at least drive it deep, deep underground. And, I do think poverty plays an important factor. But, your comparison of Brazil & China is a good one.


I ain't sure on child sex trafficking, wasn't my purpose of study. But often when people shout child sex trafficking they are begging the . . . oh forget it.

Everyone continue with their Church fantasy.
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« Reply #53 on: September 13, 2011, 03:42:19 PM »

I was sitting here thinking to myself of a situation that I feel would never happen but it should happen...

I would love to hear opinions on the following:

The Pope goes on international television and states that Rome recants its claim to universal jurisdiction, states that the Orthodox are not Schismatics (which the EO arent anyways, but please bear with me) and wishes to reunite with the Orthodox Church. How do you think this would change things?

PP
1. The Pope must be a Catholic
2. If a Pope defects from the Catholic faith, he is no longer a Catholic.
3. Therefore, he would no longer be the Pope.
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« Reply #54 on: September 13, 2011, 03:42:20 PM »

So the Pope makes infallible ex cathedra statements except when they're wrong. And I'm a vegetarian between meals.
Nope. Once the Pope begins to even believe heretical doctrines, he is not Catholic, and ergo, not the Pope. So he has no authority to make any statement concerning faith and morals.
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« Reply #55 on: September 13, 2011, 04:06:03 PM »

Papist & Wyatt, what do you think of this statement as a starting point?

Quote
One who stands on the ground of Catholic theology cannot consider the forms of 19th and 20th century papacy as the only possible and necessary forms for all Christians. One cannot say that what was possible for a thousand years is not possible today. Rome should not demand from the East more on the doctrine of the primacy than was formulated and taught in first thousand years. On this basis recognition is possible. The East should not describe the Western development as heretical.

-Cardinal Ratzinger

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« Reply #56 on: September 13, 2011, 04:06:19 PM »

Sex tourism is the industry of prostitution, and often, children prostitution. Women and girls (but also some young men and boys) are abused in a dark market to service pervets. True, locals also use prostitutes, but in the main touristic cities, it's foreigners (from all over the world, not just one country) that foment it the most. The additional problem with foreigners is precisely that people usually don't have to travel abroad to get "usual" prostitutes, that is, adult women. When a person seeks it in another country it's because the person is seeking something that is considered a more serious crime in their home country. Usually, they are pedophiles and/or violent men.

Lord have mercy. That was so troubling to read. I pray things improve as Brazil develops economically and has the resources end this evil.

Me having done the research on such a subject, can say that money and economic development doesn't sex industry end per se. Especially, when there is little to no social pressure put on the country. In the EE it is different, since the EU can press them for entrance.

Brazil is going through their gilded age. It is a booming market and people are making money hand over fist by any means. Usually, what happens during a booming economic  period in a country with little to no organized government or one which is willing to allow such things to go on for the cash, which means every nation throughout times.

If you knew the amount of time and money the company I work for puts into Brazil, it is mind boggling.

Brazil and China. Vastly different. Similar markets opening.

The problem with the government in Brazil is that it is over-organized, with a plethora of laws, that create precedents for just about everything. Too many laws just create several ways crooks can look fine. Brazil needs less, but more efficient laws. Laws that can be understood withouth much ambiguity and judged fast and firmly. Just as a reference, a lawyer printed a book with all tax-laws in Brazil. It is 2.2 meters tall, 1.4 large, font size 18. It weighs around 6.2 tons. I think some measured how many laws are created in Brazil every day. It's an average of 18 new laws everyday (not counting hundreds of regulations).

And I'm sorry, but the money your company puts here probably goes to corrupt politicians or their protegeés, not to the ones who need it. Sad

A congresswoman was filmed accepting bribe money. She was not condemned not even impeached because she claimed she had not been elected yet at that time and the court accepted it. The governor of Santa Catarina increased her patrimony in 400% in the time she stayed in office. Lula's son moved from being an assistant at the Zoo to become a millionaire in a couple of years.

Brazil has a very friendly, outgoing people, but very naîve politically to say the least. People expect too much from government forgetting that government is made of politicians not of angels.
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« Reply #57 on: September 13, 2011, 04:07:04 PM »

I would love reunion. Im sure it disappoints God that we're so fractitious.

In other news, Brazil should not host the World Cup. There I said it.

PP

A lot of people here agree with it. Pele himself declared it wil be a shame.
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« Reply #58 on: September 13, 2011, 04:16:32 PM »

Sex tourism is the industry of prostitution, and often, children prostitution. Women and girls (but also some young men and boys) are abused in a dark market to service pervets. True, locals also use prostitutes, but in the main touristic cities, it's foreigners (from all over the world, not just one country) that foment it the most. The additional problem with foreigners is precisely that people usually don't have to travel abroad to get "usual" prostitutes, that is, adult women. When a person seeks it in another country it's because the person is seeking something that is considered a more serious crime in their home country. Usually, they are pedophiles and/or violent men.

Lord have mercy. That was so troubling to read. I pray things improve as Brazil develops economically and has the resources end this evil.

Me having done the research on such a subject, can say that money and economic development doesn't sex industry end per se. Especially, when there is little to no social pressure put on the country. In the EE it is different, since the EU can press them for entrance.

Brazil is going through their gilded age. It is a booming market and people are making money hand over fist by any means. Usually, what happens during a booming economic  period in a country with little to no organized government or one which is willing to allow such things to go on for the cash, which means every nation throughout times.

If you knew the amount of time and money the company I work for puts into Brazil, it is mind boggling.

Brazil and China. Vastly different. Similar markets opening.

The problem with the government in Brazil is that it is over-organized, with a plethora of laws, that create precedents for just about everything. Too many laws just create several ways crooks can look fine. Brazil needs less, but more efficient laws. Laws that can be understood withouth much ambiguity and judged fast and firmly. Just as a reference, a lawyer printed a book with all tax-laws in Brazil. It is 2.2 meters tall, 1.4 large, font size 18. It weighs around 6.2 tons. I think some measured how many laws are created in Brazil every day. It's an average of 18 new laws everyday (not counting hundreds of regulations).

And I'm sorry, but the money your company puts here probably goes to corrupt politicians or their protegeés, not to the ones who need it. Sad

A congresswoman was filmed accepting bribe money. She was not condemned not even impeached because she claimed she had not been elected yet at that time and the court accepted it. The governor of Santa Catarina increased her patrimony in 400% in the time she stayed in office. Lula's son moved from being an assistant at the Zoo to become a millionaire in a couple of years.

Brazil has a very friendly, outgoing people, but very naîve politically to say the least. People expect too much from government forgetting that government is made of politicians not of angels.

Doesn't this separate and irrelevant to the OP discussion belong on a thread of its own, perhaps?
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« Reply #59 on: September 13, 2011, 04:47:35 PM »

I hopped on the rabbit trail too...sry :0

PP
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« Reply #60 on: September 13, 2011, 04:52:48 PM »

I was sitting here thinking to myself of a situation that I feel would never happen but it should happen...

I would love to hear opinions on the following:

The Pope goes on international television and states that Rome recants its claim to universal jurisdiction, states that the Orthodox are not Schismatics (which the EO arent anyways, but please bear with me) and wishes to reunite with the Orthodox Church. How do you think this would change things?

PP
1. The Pope must be a Catholic
2. If a Pope defects from the Catholic faith, he is no longer a Catholic.
3. Therefore, he would no longer be the Pope.
I fully agree.
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« Reply #61 on: September 13, 2011, 05:00:06 PM »

And I'm sorry, but the money your company puts here probably goes to corrupt politicians or their protegeés, not to the ones who need it. Sad


Don't apologize. They are a capitalist multinational, that's what they do. Everyone is up for sale in capitalism. On thing about the sex trade is that the dehumanization of it is at least more obvious and "honest".

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« Reply #62 on: September 13, 2011, 08:58:53 PM »

Yes, because if he did such a thing he would not be the Pope so it would be impossible for him to speak from the chair of St. Peter.

And herein lies the problem. How does Rome back away from these claims of Papal infallibility & such without causing more havoc in their Church? It may require a few generations of slowly backing away from these claims until they have a more correct ecclesiology.

I think a lot of things can be reconciled but Papal Infallibility & Supremacy simply can't. I make my comments as one who greatly admires the RCC and earnestly wants union.

And I should also state that Phyletism must be addressed by the East, both EO & OO. That too may take a few generations until we have a more correct ecclesiology in that regards.
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« Reply #63 on: September 13, 2011, 09:12:01 PM »

So the Pope makes infallible ex cathedra statements except when they're wrong. And I'm a vegetarian between meals.
Nope. Once the Pope begins to even believe heretical doctrines, he is not Catholic, and ergo, not the Pope. So he has no authority to make any statement concerning faith and morals.

Again, this makes Papal infallibility into a meaningless tautology. The Pope's ex cathedra statements are infallible unless he is a heretic and therefore not the Pope.
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« Reply #64 on: September 13, 2011, 09:39:11 PM »

So the Pope makes infallible ex cathedra statements except when they're wrong. And I'm a vegetarian between meals.
Nope. Once the Pope begins to even believe heretical doctrines, he is not Catholic, and ergo, not the Pope. So he has no authority to make any statement concerning faith and morals.

Again, this makes Papal infallibility into a meaningless tautology. The Pope's ex cathedra statements are infallible unless he is a heretic and therefore not the Pope.

In other words, if the pope makes an ex-cathedra statement one disagrees with, he can just make the argument that, "no-true pope would make that statement ex-cathedra."
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« Reply #65 on: September 14, 2011, 03:37:43 AM »

The Pope's ex cathedra statements are infallible unless he is a heretic and therefore not the Pope.

The Pope is infallible unless he is wrong. They could write a dogma about me too.
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« Reply #66 on: September 14, 2011, 04:16:04 AM »

I would love reunion. Im sure it disappoints God that we're so fractitious.

In other news, Brazil should not host the World Cup. There I said it.

PP

A lot of people here agree with it. Pele himself declared it wil be a shame.
Then why did he take on the ambassador role for Brazil?
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« Reply #67 on: September 14, 2011, 07:24:25 AM »

I would love reunion. Im sure it disappoints God that we're so fractitious.

In other news, Brazil should not host the World Cup. There I said it.

PP

A lot of people here agree with it. Pele himself declared it wil be a shame.
Then why did he take on the ambassador role for Brazil?

He's a smart man.

To moderator: Can we take the discussion about Brazil to another thread? It is really not related to the main topic.
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« Reply #68 on: September 14, 2011, 07:48:47 AM »

The Pope's ex cathedra statements are infallible unless he is a heretic and therefore not the Pope.

The Pope is infallible unless he is wrong. They could write a dogma about me too.

I herein affirm state and proclaim that Michał by virtue of exceeding excesses never says what is wrong while saying what is right. Also, he has supreme authority over everybody that acknowledges his supreme authority, unless they don't.
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« Reply #69 on: September 14, 2011, 11:17:47 AM »

If the pope cant make ex cathedra statements if he's heretical is an impossible statement. Who can declare the statement heretical if the statement is infallible by its very nature according to Roman law? Seems to me that such a statement isn't so infallible to start with.

In my understanding, if the Pope made an ex cathedra statement and you disagree you're rebelling against Rome. Are you not?

PP
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« Reply #70 on: September 14, 2011, 12:38:48 PM »

So the Pope makes infallible ex cathedra statements except when they're wrong. And I'm a vegetarian between meals.
Nope. Once the Pope begins to even believe heretical doctrines, he is not Catholic, and ergo, not the Pope. So he has no authority to make any statement concerning faith and morals.

Again, this makes Papal infallibility into a meaningless tautology. The Pope's ex cathedra statements are infallible unless he is a heretic and therefore not the Pope.
No it doesn't. As long as the Pope is faithful to Sacred tradition, he won't even make an honest mistake, when defining dogma for the faithful.
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Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
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