Author Topic: 'Mother!' by Darren Aranofsky  (Read 385 times)

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Offline Porter ODoran

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'Mother!' by Darren Aranofsky
« on: December 13, 2017, 02:10:05 AM »
Once upon a time, Gaia and Jehovah shared a restored Georgian mansion ...

Reactions? Reviews?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline MariaJLM

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Re: 'Mother!' by Darren Aranofsky
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2017, 04:03:31 AM »
Do you mean that new movie with Jennifer Lawrence? I didn't bother with it as it didn't appeal to me. I've seen all sorts of interpretations of it, though, such as it being a Biblical allegory.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: 'Mother!' by Darren Aranofsky
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2017, 12:56:04 PM »
such as it being a Biblical allegory.

Oh, it is.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

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Re: 'Mother!' by Darren Aranofsky
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2017, 01:09:51 PM »
The Bible, as told through the lens of an unbelieving environmentalist artiste.

Not exactly the sort of thing that draws me in.
"Take heed, you who listen to me: Our misfortune is inevitable, we cannot escape it. If God allows scandals, it is that the elect shall be revealed. Let them be burned, let them be purified, let them who have been tried be made manifest among you."   - The Life of the Archpriest Avvakum by Himself

Offline MariaJLM

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Re: 'Mother!' by Darren Aranofsky
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2017, 01:35:13 PM »
such as it being a Biblical allegory.

Oh, it is.

How so? As stated, I didn't watch it. How is the Bible tied into it?

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: 'Mother!' by Darren Aranofsky
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2017, 02:12:44 PM »
such as it being a Biblical allegory.

Oh, it is.

How so? As stated, I didn't watch it. How is the Bible tied into it?

You have Jehovah and Gaia/Demeter/Mary. You have Adam and Eve/Lilith. Cain and Abel. The Fall. The Flood. The New Testament and the Church. Original sin. The end of the Age with unquenchable fire.

I recommend it. I've never watched an Aronofsky film I didn't appreciate, tho. The only poster I feel quite sure would like it is Antonious Nicholas.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: 'Mother!' by Darren Aranofsky
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2017, 02:13:43 PM »
The Bible, as told through the lens of an unbelieving environmentalist artiste.

Not exactly the sort of thing that draws me in.

More Kabbalah than anything else. I'm assuming you've seen his Noah movie.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 02:15:31 PM by Porter ODoran »
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: 'Mother!' by Darren Aranofsky
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2017, 02:14:52 PM »
Basic Gnosticism. I liked the production, my kind of horror movie, with all that tension, photography and disturbing moments.

How so? As stated, I didn't watch it. How is the Bible tied into it?
The man is God, the wife (and at the same time their house) is the Earth. He's a writer, worried with his masterpiece (that is, mankind) and the realisation thereof leads to the destruction of the house and the disturbance of the mother. Once you get your head around this, it's easy to look at the movie and see Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, Christ, the Flood...
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Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

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Re: 'Mother!' by Darren Aranofsky
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2017, 05:15:28 AM »
The Bible, as told through the lens of an unbelieving environmentalist artiste.

Not exactly the sort of thing that draws me in.

More Kabbalah than anything else. I'm assuming you've seen his Noah movie.

I saw most of Noah and forgot how much the Kabbalah had pervaded that film. At the time, I enjoyed it for the most part and can appreciate it as look at the Old Testament as Gnostics might see it, not that I expect most of its viewers would have caught on.

Having seen trailers and read the synopsis for mother!, it strikes me as more heavy-handed and uglier than Noah had been and I don't imagine I'd get much entertainment value out of it.

Your recommendation surprises me but then I haven't actually seen it.
"Take heed, you who listen to me: Our misfortune is inevitable, we cannot escape it. If God allows scandals, it is that the elect shall be revealed. Let them be burned, let them be purified, let them who have been tried be made manifest among you."   - The Life of the Archpriest Avvakum by Himself

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: 'Mother!' by Darren Aranofsky
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2017, 11:59:08 AM »
The Bible, as told through the lens of an unbelieving environmentalist artiste.

Not exactly the sort of thing that draws me in.

More Kabbalah than anything else. I'm assuming you've seen his Noah movie.

I saw most of Noah and forgot how much the Kabbalah had pervaded that film. At the time, I enjoyed it for the most part and can appreciate it as look at the Old Testament as Gnostics might see it, not that I expect most of its viewers would have caught on.

Having seen trailers and read the synopsis for mother!, it strikes me as more heavy-handed and uglier than Noah had been and I don't imagine I'd get much entertainment value out of it.

Your recommendation surprises me but then I haven't actually seen it.

I like to think about things.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

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Re: 'Mother!' by Darren Aranofsky
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2017, 12:04:22 PM »
I've seen a few Aronofsky movies and generally liked them, though not enough to really have much interest in following his work. I thought the Black Swan was pretty bad.
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Offline William T

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Re: 'Mother!' by Darren Aranofsky
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2017, 12:25:19 PM »
I've seen a few Aronofsky movies and generally liked them, though not enough to really have much interest in following his work. I thought the Black Swan was pretty bad.

I associate him with one of those things you like in college but don't like as much when you get older

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: 'Mother!' by Darren Aranofsky
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2017, 01:11:46 PM »
I've seen a few Aronofsky movies and generally liked them, though not enough to really have much interest in following his work. I thought the Black Swan was pretty bad.

I found 'Black Swan' a departure from his usual feel, which is presumably why Hollywood loved it. 'The Fountain' is probably my favorite. 'The Wrestler' is probably his most solid work, altho not a particularly intriguing one to me. 'Requiem for a Dream' is certainly his best, but I wouldn't watch it twice if you paid me; too realistically devastating.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

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Re: 'Mother!' by Darren Aranofsky
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2017, 04:14:20 PM »
The Bible, as told through the lens of an unbelieving environmentalist artiste.

Not exactly the sort of thing that draws me in.

More Kabbalah than anything else.

I haven't seen it, but based on a detailed discussion I read of it, I thought the third act (?) sounded like a pretty esoteric Jewish take on the New Testament.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: 'Mother!' by Darren Aranofsky
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2017, 04:24:34 PM »
The Bible, as told through the lens of an unbelieving environmentalist artiste.

Not exactly the sort of thing that draws me in.

More Kabbalah than anything else.

I haven't seen it, but based on a detailed discussion I read of it, I thought the third act (?) sounded like a pretty esoteric Jewish take on the New Testament.

That may be elevating it a bit much. I think the depiction of Christendom is scabrously accusational, without a lot of mystery to it -- the New Testament leads its readers to all sorts of greed and war, by arousing in them justification for pure selfishness and consumption. However, the idea that the world perishes and revives again into a new Age, endlessly cycling, is Kabbalistic (and Brahmanistic, for that matter), as is the emphasis on the Lilith aspect of the first woman, and various other things ...
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 04:25:41 PM by Porter ODoran »
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: 'Mother!' by Darren Aranofsky
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2017, 05:12:46 PM »
The depiction of Christendom is the climax of the movie, but easily its weakest part. It would be easy to dismiss as a clumsy Jewish polemic. (On the other hand, in terms of horror filmmaking, it is effective.) However, on second thought I find it raises a genuine question:

How is it, and is there any significance in the fact, that the rise of Christianity coincided with the rise of greater covetousness, sophistry, destructiveness, war, and divisiveness than humanity had ever known? There is a Christian precept, "By their fruits you shall know them." Aranofsky depicts the New Testament as a poem of great beauty -- so that the Mother weeps over its beauty (altho after a time she still persists in weeping, perhaps as tho in dread). It also has an effect on humanity presumably greater than anything ever has had before. Yet without doubt history then continues into endless divisions (the camera lingers on a shattering vase as its pieces spread apart and continue to fragment, denominationism-style) and wars and rumors of war (the house is soon strewn with sandbags and barbwire). It seems to me Aranofsky has concluded that human nature seized on the message of mercy and generosity as self-gratifying, bringing to pass that against which the Apostle warned, "Shall we sin that grace may abound? God forbid." Many Christian folks I know would agree, when it comes to, say, socialism, or Osteen-ism, that the Gospel can be conducive to just such self-delusion.

However, the movie as a whole should be thought of in thinking of this part. Aranofsky after all makes the same divinity author of both "poems," i.e., I would say (tho other correct interpretations are likely) of Old and New Testament both. So the tension is not really between Judaism and Christianity. Christianity may be the much more memorable fruit of the Poet, but Judaism or primitive man or whatever the earlier acts depict is also rotten. No, the tension is epitomized in the last scene, when the Mother is expiring in agony and Jehovah says of himself, "It's what I do; I create." He then uses her remains, her core of life and love, to "create" his house anew. So the tension is between -- on the one hand -- the humble handmaiden from whom all good and longsuffering things actually flow, the chthonic deities, the primitive rituals of sowing and harvest, the mother and birthgiver (ritual which some would say the Christian calendar of the Theotokos continues somewhat to represent) -- and, on the other hand -- the narcisstic lawgiver and philosopher, the "creator" of apt words and absolutes, the new deities on the mountaintops or in the skies that dazzle humanity with their commands and solutions.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: 'Mother!' by Darren Aranofsky
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2017, 10:26:56 PM »
I couldn't really frame the final scene on mainstream Christianity, to me it seemed more like the transposition of a cosmic restoration narrative (such as the coming of Kalki in Hinduism) to the whole movie's Gnostic symbolism. What do you think?
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 10:29:37 PM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: 'Mother!' by Darren Aranofsky
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2017, 11:51:18 PM »
I couldn't really frame the final scene on mainstream Christianity, to me it seemed more like the transposition of a cosmic restoration narrative (such as the coming of Kalki in Hinduism) to the whole movie's Gnostic symbolism. What do you think?

Don't forget the opening scene. We see three Mothers altogether, and it's clearly meant to depict a perpetual rebirth. Remember the coming of Kalki is repeated every so many myriads of millennia, a cycle that never ends. I've heard that this belief makes evolution's improbably enormous arc palatable to Hindus, as opposed to the other major world religions.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy