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Heorhij
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« on: September 05, 2011, 05:43:42 PM »

I'd rather pray for the mutual understanding and appreciation of each other by all of the various Christian faith communities. The word "unity" is a bit... well, maybe assuming too much for the moment. We (the Orthodox) aren't going to be in the Eucharistic unity with Roman Catholics for quite a while, apparently. We aren't going to be, also, in this kind of "unity" with our sisters and brothers Protestants, for the obvious reason that ours and theirs are two very different understandings of the Eucharist. What we need, and for what I'll pray, is not any artificial finding of "common points," but, rather, love. Non-aggressive, non-militant attitude to each other. Feeling, sensing, experiencing that these "others" are real, and that no one needs branding of each other as "heretics" and us, the beloved, the edification into THE only truth there is and has been and will be under the Sun. We all ARE different. Some of us are, perhaps, closer to the ultimate truth than others, and it is natural for all of us to believe that it is "us" ad not "the other guy" who is closer. But we all look at the same one Truth from different angles. And we need each other. We all have some unique "thing" about us that the "other guys" lack, or have in a deficient form. Gotta share.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 05:44:25 PM by Heorhij » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2011, 11:50:59 PM »

I'd rather pray for the mutual understanding and appreciation of each other by all of the various Christian faith communities. The word "unity" is a bit... well, maybe assuming too much for the moment. We (the Orthodox) aren't going to be in the Eucharistic unity with Roman Catholics for quite a while, apparently. We aren't going to be, also, in this kind of "unity" with our sisters and brothers Protestants, for the obvious reason that ours and theirs are two very different understandings of the Eucharist. What we need, and for what I'll pray, is not any artificial finding of "common points," but, rather, love. Non-aggressive, non-militant attitude to each other. Feeling, sensing, experiencing that these "others" are real, and that no one needs branding of each other as "heretics" and us, the beloved, the edification into THE only truth there is and has been and will be under the Sun. We all ARE different. Some of us are, perhaps, closer to the ultimate truth than others, and it is natural for all of us to believe that it is "us" ad not "the other guy" who is closer. But we all look at the same one Truth from different angles. And we need each other. We all have some unique "thing" about us that the "other guys" lack, or have in a deficient form. Gotta share.
Would restoration of full communion between EO and RC demand a whole lot more than what you are praying for here? Could there be restoration of full communion, and yet still be disagreement on some points, such as Purgatory for example?
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« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2011, 01:38:00 PM »

I'd rather pray for the mutual understanding and appreciation of each other by all of the various Christian faith communities. The word "unity" is a bit... well, maybe assuming too much for the moment. We (the Orthodox) aren't going to be in the Eucharistic unity with Roman Catholics for quite a while, apparently. We aren't going to be, also, in this kind of "unity" with our sisters and brothers Protestants, for the obvious reason that ours and theirs are two very different understandings of the Eucharist. What we need, and for what I'll pray, is not any artificial finding of "common points," but, rather, love. Non-aggressive, non-militant attitude to each other. Feeling, sensing, experiencing that these "others" are real, and that no one needs branding of each other as "heretics" and us, the beloved, the edification into THE only truth there is and has been and will be under the Sun. We all ARE different. Some of us are, perhaps, closer to the ultimate truth than others, and it is natural for all of us to believe that it is "us" ad not "the other guy" who is closer. But we all look at the same one Truth from different angles. And we need each other. We all have some unique "thing" about us that the "other guys" lack, or have in a deficient form. Gotta share.
Would restoration of full communion between EO and RC demand a whole lot more than what you are praying for here? Could there be restoration of full communion, and yet still be disagreement on some points, such as Purgatory for example?
I think you raise an interesting point. There were inherent differences between the Eastern and Western Church pre-schism as well, but it was not a hindrance to unity.
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Heorhij
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« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2011, 02:57:55 PM »

I'd rather pray for the mutual understanding and appreciation of each other by all of the various Christian faith communities. The word "unity" is a bit... well, maybe assuming too much for the moment. We (the Orthodox) aren't going to be in the Eucharistic unity with Roman Catholics for quite a while, apparently. We aren't going to be, also, in this kind of "unity" with our sisters and brothers Protestants, for the obvious reason that ours and theirs are two very different understandings of the Eucharist. What we need, and for what I'll pray, is not any artificial finding of "common points," but, rather, love. Non-aggressive, non-militant attitude to each other. Feeling, sensing, experiencing that these "others" are real, and that no one needs branding of each other as "heretics" and us, the beloved, the edification into THE only truth there is and has been and will be under the Sun. We all ARE different. Some of us are, perhaps, closer to the ultimate truth than others, and it is natural for all of us to believe that it is "us" ad not "the other guy" who is closer. But we all look at the same one Truth from different angles. And we need each other. We all have some unique "thing" about us that the "other guys" lack, or have in a deficient form. Gotta share.
Would restoration of full communion between EO and RC demand a whole lot more than what you are praying for here? Could there be restoration of full communion, and yet still be disagreement on some points, such as Purgatory for example?
I think you raise an interesting point. There were inherent differences between the Eastern and Western Church pre-schism as well, but it was not a hindrance to unity.

I think our differences with our sisters and brothers Roman Catholics are being artificially and deliberately exaggerated by the leading Occidentophobic powers (Russia first of all, and then her spiritual satellites like Serbia). I constantly see links in statuses of my Facebook friends on yet another and yet another and yet another Russian Orthodox genius who expresses deep thoughts that Pentarchy is a Vatican plot, or that Catholics are the driving force behind globalism, consumerism, idolatry in the contemporary West, or that the Roman Catholic Church is pursuing a gigantic plan aimed at spoiling the Russian Orthodox people's "genetic code." It's UNBELIEVABLE how much of this stuff is on the Internet, or in various Russian-language Orthodox (or "Orthodox") newspapers, journals, pamphlets. The Russian leadership just cannot live without creating an image of the enemy. In the 1920-s - 1980-s this image, being made through the efforts of the Communist Party of the USSR, was "aggressive American imperialism and its Western European satellites" who are about to invade the USSR and wage an ideological war against it. In the same way today the Russian Orthodox Church, having filled the vacuum created after the demise of the USSR and the Communist Party, continues to manufacture this image of mean, cunning, plotting, scheming Vatican, the mother of all evils.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2011, 02:58:44 PM by Heorhij » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2011, 03:28:15 PM »

I'd rather pray for the mutual understanding and appreciation of each other by all of the various Christian faith communities. The word "unity" is a bit... well, maybe assuming too much for the moment. We (the Orthodox) aren't going to be in the Eucharistic unity with Roman Catholics for quite a while, apparently. We aren't going to be, also, in this kind of "unity" with our sisters and brothers Protestants, for the obvious reason that ours and theirs are two very different understandings of the Eucharist. What we need, and for what I'll pray, is not any artificial finding of "common points," but, rather, love. Non-aggressive, non-militant attitude to each other. Feeling, sensing, experiencing that these "others" are real, and that no one needs branding of each other as "heretics" and us, the beloved, the edification into THE only truth there is and has been and will be under the Sun. We all ARE different. Some of us are, perhaps, closer to the ultimate truth than others, and it is natural for all of us to believe that it is "us" ad not "the other guy" who is closer. But we all look at the same one Truth from different angles. And we need each other. We all have some unique "thing" about us that the "other guys" lack, or have in a deficient form. Gotta share.
Would restoration of full communion between EO and RC demand a whole lot more than what you are praying for here? Could there be restoration of full communion, and yet still be disagreement on some points, such as Purgatory for example?
I think you raise an interesting point. There were inherent differences between the Eastern and Western Church pre-schism as well, but it was not a hindrance to unity.

I think our differences with our sisters and brothers Roman Catholics are being artificially and deliberately exaggerated by the leading Occidentophobic powers (Russia first of all, and then her spiritual satellites like Serbia). I constantly see links in statuses of my Facebook friends on yet another and yet another and yet another Russian Orthodox genius who expresses deep thoughts that Pentarchy is a Vatican plot, or that Catholics are the driving force behind globalism, consumerism, idolatry in the contemporary West, or that the Roman Catholic Church is pursuing a gigantic plan aimed at spoiling the Russian Orthodox people's "genetic code." It's UNBELIEVABLE how much of this stuff is on the Internet, or in various Russian-language Orthodox (or "Orthodox") newspapers, journals, pamphlets. The Russian leadership just cannot live without creating an image of the enemy. In the 1920-s - 1980-s this image, being made through the efforts of the Communist Party of the USSR, was "aggressive American imperialism and its Western European satellites" who are about to invade the USSR and wage an ideological war against it. In the same way today the Russian Orthodox Church, having filled the vacuum created after the demise of the USSR and the Communist Party, continues to manufacture this image of mean, cunning, plotting, scheming Vatican, the mother of all evils.

You make a good point.  I would only add to it that there is also no shortage of "Occitenophobic" thinking amongst some Eastern Orthodox right here in the Occident. 
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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2011, 03:37:03 PM »

I'd rather pray for the mutual understanding and appreciation of each other by all of the various Christian faith communities. The word "unity" is a bit... well, maybe assuming too much for the moment. We (the Orthodox) aren't going to be in the Eucharistic unity with Roman Catholics for quite a while, apparently. We aren't going to be, also, in this kind of "unity" with our sisters and brothers Protestants, for the obvious reason that ours and theirs are two very different understandings of the Eucharist. What we need, and for what I'll pray, is not any artificial finding of "common points," but, rather, love. Non-aggressive, non-militant attitude to each other. Feeling, sensing, experiencing that these "others" are real, and that no one needs branding of each other as "heretics" and us, the beloved, the edification into THE only truth there is and has been and will be under the Sun. We all ARE different. Some of us are, perhaps, closer to the ultimate truth than others, and it is natural for all of us to believe that it is "us" ad not "the other guy" who is closer. But we all look at the same one Truth from different angles. And we need each other. We all have some unique "thing" about us that the "other guys" lack, or have in a deficient form. Gotta share.
Would restoration of full communion between EO and RC demand a whole lot more than what you are praying for here? Could there be restoration of full communion, and yet still be disagreement on some points, such as Purgatory for example?
I think you raise an interesting point. There were inherent differences between the Eastern and Western Church pre-schism as well, but it was not a hindrance to unity.

I think our differences with our sisters and brothers Roman Catholics are being artificially and deliberately exaggerated by the leading Occidentophobic powers (Russia first of all, and then her spiritual satellites like Serbia). I constantly see links in statuses of my Facebook friends on yet another and yet another and yet another Russian Orthodox genius who expresses deep thoughts that Pentarchy is a Vatican plot, or that Catholics are the driving force behind globalism, consumerism, idolatry in the contemporary West, or that the Roman Catholic Church is pursuing a gigantic plan aimed at spoiling the Russian Orthodox people's "genetic code." It's UNBELIEVABLE how much of this stuff is on the Internet, or in various Russian-language Orthodox (or "Orthodox") newspapers, journals, pamphlets. The Russian leadership just cannot live without creating an image of the enemy. In the 1920-s - 1980-s this image, being made through the efforts of the Communist Party of the USSR, was "aggressive American imperialism and its Western European satellites" who are about to invade the USSR and wage an ideological war against it. In the same way today the Russian Orthodox Church, having filled the vacuum created after the demise of the USSR and the Communist Party, continues to manufacture this image of mean, cunning, plotting, scheming Vatican, the mother of all evils.

You make a good point.  I would only add to it that there is also no shortage of "Occitenophobic" thinking amongst some Eastern Orthodox right here in the Occident. 

Thank you. Yes, I know, there are these Occidentophobes even on this forum, posting from Chicago ("mid-Occident"), etc. Ah, the escapism of the converts. Nothing is more evil than the evil West, and the evil Vatican its Prophet.
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« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2011, 03:55:06 PM »

I'd rather pray for the mutual understanding and appreciation of each other by all of the various Christian faith communities. The word "unity" is a bit... well, maybe assuming too much for the moment. We (the Orthodox) aren't going to be in the Eucharistic unity with Roman Catholics for quite a while, apparently. We aren't going to be, also, in this kind of "unity" with our sisters and brothers Protestants, for the obvious reason that ours and theirs are two very different understandings of the Eucharist. What we need, and for what I'll pray, is not any artificial finding of "common points," but, rather, love. Non-aggressive, non-militant attitude to each other. Feeling, sensing, experiencing that these "others" are real, and that no one needs branding of each other as "heretics" and us, the beloved, the edification into THE only truth there is and has been and will be under the Sun. We all ARE different. Some of us are, perhaps, closer to the ultimate truth than others, and it is natural for all of us to believe that it is "us" ad not "the other guy" who is closer. But we all look at the same one Truth from different angles. And we need each other. We all have some unique "thing" about us that the "other guys" lack, or have in a deficient form. Gotta share.
Would restoration of full communion between EO and RC demand a whole lot more than what you are praying for here? Could there be restoration of full communion, and yet still be disagreement on some points, such as Purgatory for example?
I think you raise an interesting point. There were inherent differences between the Eastern and Western Church pre-schism as well, but it was not a hindrance to unity.

I think our differences with our sisters and brothers Roman Catholics are being artificially and deliberately exaggerated by the leading Occidentophobic powers (Russia first of all, and then her spiritual satellites like Serbia). I constantly see links in statuses of my Facebook friends on yet another and yet another and yet another Russian Orthodox genius who expresses deep thoughts that Pentarchy is a Vatican plot, or that Catholics are the driving force behind globalism, consumerism, idolatry in the contemporary West, or that the Roman Catholic Church is pursuing a gigantic plan aimed at spoiling the Russian Orthodox people's "genetic code." It's UNBELIEVABLE how much of this stuff is on the Internet, or in various Russian-language Orthodox (or "Orthodox") newspapers, journals, pamphlets. The Russian leadership just cannot live without creating an image of the enemy. In the 1920-s - 1980-s this image, being made through the efforts of the Communist Party of the USSR, was "aggressive American imperialism and its Western European satellites" who are about to invade the USSR and wage an ideological war against it. In the same way today the Russian Orthodox Church, having filled the vacuum created after the demise of the USSR and the Communist Party, continues to manufacture this image of mean, cunning, plotting, scheming Vatican, the mother of all evils.

You make a good point.  I would only add to it that there is also no shortage of "Occitenophobic" thinking amongst some Eastern Orthodox right here in the Occident. 

Thank you. Yes, I know, there are these Occidentophobes even on this forum, posting from Chicago ("mid-Occident"), etc. Ah, the escapism of the converts. Nothing is more evil than the evil West, and the evil Vatican its Prophet.

I pray that God will soften and heal the hearts and open the minds of not only all the above-mentioned Occidentophobes but of all people. 
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« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2011, 04:09:10 PM »

I'd rather pray for the mutual understanding and appreciation of each other by all of the various Christian faith communities. The word "unity" is a bit... well, maybe assuming too much for the moment. We (the Orthodox) aren't going to be in the Eucharistic unity with Roman Catholics for quite a while, apparently. We aren't going to be, also, in this kind of "unity" with our sisters and brothers Protestants, for the obvious reason that ours and theirs are two very different understandings of the Eucharist. What we need, and for what I'll pray, is not any artificial finding of "common points," but, rather, love. Non-aggressive, non-militant attitude to each other. Feeling, sensing, experiencing that these "others" are real, and that no one needs branding of each other as "heretics" and us, the beloved, the edification into THE only truth there is and has been and will be under the Sun. We all ARE different. Some of us are, perhaps, closer to the ultimate truth than others, and it is natural for all of us to believe that it is "us" ad not "the other guy" who is closer. But we all look at the same one Truth from different angles. And we need each other. We all have some unique "thing" about us that the "other guys" lack, or have in a deficient form. Gotta share.
Would restoration of full communion between EO and RC demand a whole lot more than what you are praying for here? Could there be restoration of full communion, and yet still be disagreement on some points, such as Purgatory for example?
I think you raise an interesting point. There were inherent differences between the Eastern and Western Church pre-schism as well, but it was not a hindrance to unity.

I think our differences with our sisters and brothers Roman Catholics are being artificially and deliberately exaggerated by the leading Occidentophobic powers (Russia first of all, and then her spiritual satellites like Serbia). I constantly see links in statuses of my Facebook friends on yet another and yet another and yet another Russian Orthodox genius who expresses deep thoughts that Pentarchy is a Vatican plot, or that Catholics are the driving force behind globalism, consumerism, idolatry in the contemporary West, or that the Roman Catholic Church is pursuing a gigantic plan aimed at spoiling the Russian Orthodox people's "genetic code." It's UNBELIEVABLE how much of this stuff is on the Internet, or in various Russian-language Orthodox (or "Orthodox") newspapers, journals, pamphlets. The Russian leadership just cannot live without creating an image of the enemy. In the 1920-s - 1980-s this image, being made through the efforts of the Communist Party of the USSR, was "aggressive American imperialism and its Western European satellites" who are about to invade the USSR and wage an ideological war against it. In the same way today the Russian Orthodox Church, having filled the vacuum created after the demise of the USSR and the Communist Party, continues to manufacture this image of mean, cunning, plotting, scheming Vatican, the mother of all evils.

You make a good point.  I would only add to it that there is also no shortage of "Occitenophobic" thinking amongst some Eastern Orthodox right here in the Occident. 

Thank you. Yes, I know, there are these Occidentophobes even on this forum, posting from Chicago ("mid-Occident"), etc. Ah, the escapism of the converts. Nothing is more evil than the evil West, and the evil Vatican its Prophet.

I pray that God will soften and heal the hearts and open the minds of not only all the above-mentioned Occidentophobes but of all people. 

Good deal. Smiley Thank you.
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« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2011, 04:21:10 PM »

I'd rather pray for the mutual understanding and appreciation of each other by all of the various Christian faith communities. The word "unity" is a bit... well, maybe assuming too much for the moment. We (the Orthodox) aren't going to be in the Eucharistic unity with Roman Catholics for quite a while, apparently. We aren't going to be, also, in this kind of "unity" with our sisters and brothers Protestants, for the obvious reason that ours and theirs are two very different understandings of the Eucharist. What we need, and for what I'll pray, is not any artificial finding of "common points," but, rather, love. Non-aggressive, non-militant attitude to each other. Feeling, sensing, experiencing that these "others" are real, and that no one needs branding of each other as "heretics" and us, the beloved, the edification into THE only truth there is and has been and will be under the Sun. We all ARE different. Some of us are, perhaps, closer to the ultimate truth than others, and it is natural for all of us to believe that it is "us" ad not "the other guy" who is closer. But we all look at the same one Truth from different angles. And we need each other. We all have some unique "thing" about us that the "other guys" lack, or have in a deficient form. Gotta share.
Would restoration of full communion between EO and RC demand a whole lot more than what you are praying for here? Could there be restoration of full communion, and yet still be disagreement on some points, such as Purgatory for example?
I think you raise an interesting point. There were inherent differences between the Eastern and Western Church pre-schism as well, but it was not a hindrance to unity.

I think our differences with our sisters and brothers Roman Catholics are being artificially and deliberately exaggerated by the leading Occidentophobic powers (Russia first of all, and then her spiritual satellites like Serbia). I constantly see links in statuses of my Facebook friends on yet another and yet another and yet another Russian Orthodox genius who expresses deep thoughts that Pentarchy is a Vatican plot, or that Catholics are the driving force behind globalism, consumerism, idolatry in the contemporary West, or that the Roman Catholic Church is pursuing a gigantic plan aimed at spoiling the Russian Orthodox people's "genetic code." It's UNBELIEVABLE how much of this stuff is on the Internet, or in various Russian-language Orthodox (or "Orthodox") newspapers, journals, pamphlets. The Russian leadership just cannot live without creating an image of the enemy. In the 1920-s - 1980-s this image, being made through the efforts of the Communist Party of the USSR, was "aggressive American imperialism and its Western European satellites" who are about to invade the USSR and wage an ideological war against it. In the same way today the Russian Orthodox Church, having filled the vacuum created after the demise of the USSR and the Communist Party, continues to manufacture this image of mean, cunning, plotting, scheming Vatican, the mother of all evils.

You make a good point.  I would only add to it that there is also no shortage of "Occitenophobic" thinking amongst some Eastern Orthodox right here in the Occident. 

Thank you. Yes, I know, there are these Occidentophobes even on this forum, posting from Chicago ("mid-Occident"), etc. Ah, the escapism of the converts. Nothing is more evil than the evil West, and the evil Vatican its Prophet.

I pray that God will soften and heal the hearts and open the minds of not only all the above-mentioned Occidentophobes but of all people. 

Good deal. Smiley Thank you.

I would only add that the vitriol and hatred that is sometimes expressed by some, and as you say, even some on this forum, is truly staggering.  They may call themselves "Orthodox" (or "Catholic") but their words are hardly those of a follower of Christ. 
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« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2011, 04:24:35 PM »

I'd rather pray for the mutual understanding and appreciation of each other by all of the various Christian faith communities. The word "unity" is a bit... well, maybe assuming too much for the moment. We (the Orthodox) aren't going to be in the Eucharistic unity with Roman Catholics for quite a while, apparently. We aren't going to be, also, in this kind of "unity" with our sisters and brothers Protestants, for the obvious reason that ours and theirs are two very different understandings of the Eucharist. What we need, and for what I'll pray, is not any artificial finding of "common points," but, rather, love. Non-aggressive, non-militant attitude to each other. Feeling, sensing, experiencing that these "others" are real, and that no one needs branding of each other as "heretics" and us, the beloved, the edification into THE only truth there is and has been and will be under the Sun. We all ARE different. Some of us are, perhaps, closer to the ultimate truth than others, and it is natural for all of us to believe that it is "us" ad not "the other guy" who is closer. But we all look at the same one Truth from different angles. And we need each other. We all have some unique "thing" about us that the "other guys" lack, or have in a deficient form. Gotta share.

The spirit of your efforts here is deeply appreciated.

Lord have mercy!
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« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2011, 04:25:50 PM »

Lord, have mercy on all of us sinners, and help us all to approach one another with greater charity.
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« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2011, 04:27:36 PM »

Lord, have mercy on all of us sinners, and help us all to approach one another with greater charity.

Amen, amen, amen.
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« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2011, 04:30:46 PM »

Lord, have mercy on all of us sinners, and help us all to approach one another with greater charity.
I agree with that of course, but the problem is that some Orthodox have a distrust of the papacy and simply do not accept the teaching on supreme universal jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff.
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« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2011, 04:33:20 PM »

Lord, have mercy on all of us sinners, and help us all to approach one another with greater charity.
I agree with that of course, but the problem is that some Orthodox have a distrust of the papacy and simply do not accept the teaching on supreme universal jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff.

Yes, we've noticed  Grin!  That's not to say, though, that even with said mistrust, one cannot speak and act with love and charity.
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« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2011, 04:45:53 PM »

Lord, have mercy on all of us sinners, and help us all to approach one another with greater charity.
I agree with that of course, but the problem is that some Orthodox have a distrust of the papacy and simply do not accept the teaching on supreme universal jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff.

Yes, we've noticed  Grin!  That's not to say, though, that even with said mistrust, one cannot speak and act with love and charity.

As long as one is mindful that a genuine prayer for union does not stop at "sounding" pleasant but carries through toward truly being open to possibilities of actual instances of shared faith, even when there is no readily apparent equivalency in expression on the surface.
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« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2011, 04:55:07 PM »

Lord, have mercy on all of us sinners, and help us all to approach one another with greater charity.
I agree with that of course, but the problem is that some Orthodox have a distrust of the papacy and simply do not accept the teaching on supreme universal jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff.

Yes, we've noticed  Grin!  That's not to say, though, that even with said mistrust, one cannot speak and act with love and charity.

As long as one is mindful that a genuine prayer for union does not stop at "sounding" pleasant but carries through toward truly being open to possibilities of actual instances of shared faith, even when there is no readily apparent equivalency in expression on the surface.

Absolutely!  I think a genuine prayer (i.e. not just words of lip service) would *not* stop at sounding pleasant, and *would* carry through...
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« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2011, 02:44:14 AM »

I have been in contact with an orthodox priest in England Fr. Gregory Hallam, as I have not found one here that speaks English yet.

He talked of the Prejudiceness in the Orthodox church towards those of us that are Catholic, He had this to say,

Quote
it’s ignorance and unkind stupidity.  We must repent of such un-Christ-like foolishness.  God loves everybody.  So should we all.


Unity would be better for all, even though some things we disagree on.

But for those of us that want to convert, this mistrust and Prejudiceness does hold us back, when we ask questions and we get a bad response or a ridiculous reply does make us think "why are we bothering".

A Catholic wrote on an Orthodox answer forum asking a question, he called himself Catholic! he got the response "call yourself Roman Catholic, NOT Catholic because we are Called Catholic"

The Roman church has never been called Roman Catholic or has never called itself that. I thought that was a nasty comment from an Orthodox person to a Catholic wanting to convert.

I pray for this Prejudiceness to be cleared away !

Yours in Christ

JR
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« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2011, 02:58:03 AM »

I have been in contact with an orthodox priest in England Fr. Gregory Hallam, as I have not found one here that speaks English yet.

He talked of the Prejudiceness in the Orthodox church towards those of us that are Catholic, He had this to say,

Quote
it’s ignorance and unkind stupidity.  We must repent of such un-Christ-like foolishness.  God loves everybody.  So should we all.


Unity would be better for all, even though some things we disagree on.

But for those of us that want to convert, this mistrust and Prejudiceness does hold us back, when we ask questions and we get a bad response or a ridiculous reply does make us think "why are we bothering".

A Catholic wrote on an Orthodox answer forum asking a question, he called himself Catholic! he got the response "call yourself Roman Catholic, NOT Catholic because we are Called Catholic"

The Roman church has never been called Roman Catholic or has never called itself that. I thought that was a nasty comment from an Orthodox person to a Catholic wanting to convert.

I pray for this Prejudiceness to be cleared away !

Yours in Christ

JR
Orthodox are not the only ones who make nasty comments. Have you read the book "Of thee I zing"  by the conservative Catholic commentator Laura Ingraham? It got great reviews by the Catholic bully Bill Donohue: "If you are looking for a witty and insightful look at American culture, Of Thee I Zing is the right choice. A fast and breezy read, this is the perfect book to take along on summer vacation.... It's available everywhere—go buy it!"
Oh yeah? Well, here is how she ends her book: "Inter-religious dialogue: Meaningless. You believe one thing and we believe another."
In other words, it makes no sense and it is a waste of time for Catholics  to work with their Orthodox brothers and sisters. They can just stop all and any dialogue and forget about it altogether because we believe one thing and you believe another.
BTW, the picture of Raymond Arroyo is on the cover of the book and he is a contributor. As you know, he is the newsdirector and  anchor for EWTN.
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« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2011, 03:45:54 AM »

I have been in contact with an orthodox priest in England Fr. Gregory Hallam, as I have not found one here that speaks English yet.

He talked of the Prejudiceness in the Orthodox church towards those of us that are Catholic, He had this to say,

Quote
it’s ignorance and unkind stupidity.  We must repent of such un-Christ-like foolishness.  God loves everybody.  So should we all.


Unity would be better for all, even though some things we disagree on.

But for those of us that want to convert, this mistrust and Prejudiceness does hold us back, when we ask questions and we get a bad response or a ridiculous reply does make us think "why are we bothering".

A Catholic wrote on an Orthodox answer forum asking a question, he called himself Catholic! he got the response "call yourself Roman Catholic, NOT Catholic because we are Called Catholic"

The Roman church has never been called Roman Catholic or has never called itself that. I thought that was a nasty comment from an Orthodox person to a Catholic wanting to convert.

I pray for this Prejudiceness to be cleared away !

Yours in Christ

JR
Orthodox are not the only ones who make nasty comments. Have you read the book "Of thee I zing"  by the conservative Catholic commentator Laura Ingraham? It got great reviews by the Catholic bully Bill Donohue: "If you are looking for a witty and insightful look at American culture, Of Thee I Zing is the right choice. A fast and breezy read, this is the perfect book to take along on summer vacation.... It's available everywhere—go buy it!"
Oh yeah? Well, here is how she ends her book: "Inter-religious dialogue: Meaningless. You believe one thing and we believe another."
In other words, it makes no sense and it is a waste of time for Catholics  to work with their Orthodox brothers and sisters. They can just stop all and any dialogue and forget about it altogether because we believe one thing and you believe another.
BTW, the picture of Raymond Arroyo is on the cover of the book and he is a contributor. As you know, he is the newsdirector and  anchor for EWTN.


Thank you for that, EWTN? I have not seen that in years, it is American yes? We don't get American TV here or American books, in fact finding books in English is very hard work.

I agree there are some Catholics that need to learn the meaning of love, charity, diplomacy, forgiveness.

I think it is very sad on both sides that these prejudices exist !

If one was to truly follow Christ, then they would not exist ! a sobering thought I think....!

What I don't understand is when somebody comes along wanting to know more about Orthodoxy or Catholicism on these boards, why they are verbally attacked. Is that how converts are made? is that how we show love to our brothers and sisters in faith?

If we can not love our brothers and sisters in faith, how can we love our enemies as Jesus commanded "Matthew 5:44"?

We should start with ourselves, not passing blame, but show and teach with example, Just as Christ and the apostles did.

Yours in Christ

JR

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« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2011, 04:42:54 AM »

I just realized that I just posted another post for the sake of scoring points in the debate. The dog really does return to its vomit. Lord have mercy on me. Brothers and Sisters, pray that I have true repentance.
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« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2011, 04:42:54 AM »

Lord, have mercy on all of us sinners, and help us all to approach one another with greater charity.
I agree with that of course, but the problem is that some Orthodox have a distrust of the papacy and simply do not accept the teaching on supreme universal jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff.
So we Catholics have only one option in this ecumenical dialogue. In order to show the EOs that we are truly their brothers and sisters, we need to become saints. Only the light of Christ shining through Catholics will show that Christ is truly present with us as well. Grant it o Lord.
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« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2011, 09:55:40 AM »

Lord, have mercy on all of us sinners, and help us all to approach one another with greater charity.
I agree with that of course, but the problem is that some Orthodox have a distrust of the papacy and simply do not accept the teaching on supreme universal jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff.
So we Catholics have only one option in this ecumenical dialogue. In order to show the EOs that we are truly their brothers and sisters, we need to become saints. Only the light of Christ shining through Catholics will show that Christ is truly present with us as well. Grant it o Lord.

No, of course not. My goodness, you don't need to become saints - although that is something to strive for, isn't it? All you need to do is acknowledge that you were mistaken. My brother is quite frequently wrong, but he's still my brother.
 Wink
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« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2011, 11:01:16 AM »

Lord, have mercy on all of us sinners, and help us all to approach one another with greater charity.
I agree with that of course, but the problem is that some Orthodox have a distrust of the papacy and simply do not accept the teaching on supreme universal jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff.
So we Catholics have only one option in this ecumenical dialogue. In order to show the EOs that we are truly their brothers and sisters, we need to become saints. Only the light of Christ shining through Catholics will show that Christ is truly present with us as well. Grant it o Lord.

No, of course not. My goodness, you don't need to become saints - although that is something to strive for, isn't it? All you need to do is acknowledge that you were mistaken. My brother is quite frequently wrong, but he's still my brother.
 Wink
Ugh.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2011, 11:15:28 AM »

Lord, have mercy on all of us sinners, and help us all to approach one another with greater charity.
I agree with that of course, but the problem is that some Orthodox have a distrust of the papacy and simply do not accept the teaching on supreme universal jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff.
So we Catholics have only one option in this ecumenical dialogue. In order to show the EOs that we are truly their brothers and sisters, we need to become saints. Only the light of Christ shining through Catholics will show that Christ is truly present with us as well. Grant it o Lord.

No, of course not. My goodness, you don't need to become saints - although that is something to strive for, isn't it? All you need to do is acknowledge that you were mistaken. My brother is quite frequently wrong, but he's still my brother.
 Wink

We pray you can be as "accepting" when the time comes for you to accept your own errors.  It's not the sins we know that bite us.  It's the ones we refuse to look at.

We keep you and others like you in our prayers daily.

Blessings.

M.
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« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2011, 11:34:04 AM »

Lord, have mercy on all of us sinners, and help us all to approach one another with greater charity.
I agree with that of course, but the problem is that some Orthodox have a distrust of the papacy and simply do not accept the teaching on supreme universal jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff.
So we Catholics have only one option in this ecumenical dialogue. In order to show the EOs that we are truly their brothers and sisters, we need to become saints. Only the light of Christ shining through Catholics will show that Christ is truly present with us as well. Grant it o Lord.

No, of course not. My goodness, you don't need to become saints - although that is something to strive for, isn't it? All you we Eastern Orthodox need to do is acknowledge that you we Eastern Orthodox were mistaken. My brother is We EOs are quite frequently wrong, but he's we are still my your brothers.
 Wink
This one took quite a bit of editing to get it right.  laugh
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« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2011, 12:18:40 PM »

Lord, have mercy on all of us sinners, and help us all to approach one another with greater charity.
I agree with that of course, but the problem is that some Orthodox have a distrust of the papacy and simply do not accept the teaching on supreme universal jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff.
So we Catholics have only one option in this ecumenical dialogue. In order to show the EOs that we are truly their brothers and sisters, we need to become saints. Only the light of Christ shining through Catholics will show that Christ is truly present with us as well. Grant it o Lord.

No, of course not. My goodness, you don't need to become saints - although that is something to strive for, isn't it? All you we Eastern Orthodox need to do is acknowledge that you we Eastern Orthodox were mistaken. My brother is We EOs are quite frequently wrong, but he's we are still my your brothers.
 Wink
This one took quite a bit of editing to get it right.  laugh

Now, see this is just what we are talking about!
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« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2011, 12:20:13 PM »

Lord, have mercy on all of us sinners, and help us all to approach one another with greater charity.
I agree with that of course, but the problem is that some Orthodox have a distrust of the papacy and simply do not accept the teaching on supreme universal jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff.
So we Catholics have only one option in this ecumenical dialogue. In order to show the EOs that we are truly their brothers and sisters, we need to become saints. Only the light of Christ shining through Catholics will show that Christ is truly present with us as well. Grant it o Lord.

No, of course not. My goodness, you don't need to become saints - although that is something to strive for, isn't it? All you need to do is acknowledge that you were mistaken. My brother is quite frequently wrong, but he's still my brother.
 Wink

We pray you can be as "accepting" when the time comes for you to accept your own errors.  It's not the sins we know that bite us.  It's the ones we refuse to look at.

We keep you and others like you in our prayers daily.

Blessings.

M.

And this, along with Wyatt's response is exactly why there is no chance of dialogue between us.
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« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2011, 12:34:18 PM »

Lord, have mercy on all of us sinners, and help us all to approach one another with greater charity.
I agree with that of course, but the problem is that some Orthodox have a distrust of the papacy and simply do not accept the teaching on supreme universal jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff.
So we Catholics have only one option in this ecumenical dialogue. In order to show the EOs that we are truly their brothers and sisters, we need to become saints. Only the light of Christ shining through Catholics will show that Christ is truly present with us as well. Grant it o Lord.

No, of course not. My goodness, you don't need to become saints - although that is something to strive for, isn't it? All you need to do is acknowledge that you were mistaken. My brother is quite frequently wrong, but he's still my brother.
 Wink

We pray you can be as "accepting" when the time comes for you to accept your own errors.  It's not the sins we know that bite us.  It's the ones we refuse to look at.

We keep you and others like you in our prayers daily.

Blessings.

M.

And this, along with Wyatt's response is exactly why there is no chance of dialogue between us.


I talk all the time with Orthodox believers who are willing to hear what I have to say about what my Church teaches.  We even talk about the real differences.  So experience tells me that this particular episode is localized...thank goodness!!

M.
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« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2011, 01:16:27 PM »

Lord, have mercy on all of us sinners, and help us all to approach one another with greater charity.
I agree with that of course, but the problem is that some Orthodox have a distrust of the papacy and simply do not accept the teaching on supreme universal jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff.
So we Catholics have only one option in this ecumenical dialogue. In order to show the EOs that we are truly their brothers and sisters, we need to become saints. Only the light of Christ shining through Catholics will show that Christ is truly present with us as well. Grant it o Lord.

No, of course not. My goodness, you don't need to become saints - although that is something to strive for, isn't it? All you need to do is acknowledge that you were mistaken. My brother is quite frequently wrong, but he's still my brother.
 Wink

We pray you can be as "accepting" when the time comes for you to accept your own errors.  It's not the sins we know that bite us.  It's the ones we refuse to look at.

We keep you and others like you in our prayers daily.

Blessings.

M.

And this, along with Wyatt's response is exactly why there is no chance of dialogue between us.

Your pompous post about us needing to admit our mistakes doesn't help either, but please...do continue to villainize me if it makes you feel better.
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« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2011, 01:21:32 PM »

Lord, have mercy on all of us sinners, and help us all to approach one another with greater charity.
I agree with that of course, but the problem is that some Orthodox have a distrust of the papacy and simply do not accept the teaching on supreme universal jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff.
So we Catholics have only one option in this ecumenical dialogue. In order to show the EOs that we are truly their brothers and sisters, we need to become saints. Only the light of Christ shining through Catholics will show that Christ is truly present with us as well. Grant it o Lord.

No, of course not. My goodness, you don't need to become saints - although that is something to strive for, isn't it? All you we Eastern Orthodox need to do is acknowledge that you we Eastern Orthodox were mistaken. My brother is We EOs are quite frequently wrong, but he's we are still my your brothers.
 Wink
This one took quite a bit of editing to get it right.  laugh
Don't choke on that vomit there, sir! Wink

In Christ,
Andrew
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« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2011, 01:24:51 PM »

Lord, have mercy on all of us sinners, and help us all to approach one another with greater charity.
I agree with that of course, but the problem is that some Orthodox have a distrust of the papacy and simply do not accept the teaching on supreme universal jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff.
So we Catholics have only one option in this ecumenical dialogue. In order to show the EOs that we are truly their brothers and sisters, we need to become saints. Only the light of Christ shining through Catholics will show that Christ is truly present with us as well. Grant it o Lord.

No, of course not. My goodness, you don't need to become saints - although that is something to strive for, isn't it? All you need to do is acknowledge that you were mistaken. My brother is quite frequently wrong, but he's still my brother.
 Wink

We pray you can be as "accepting" when the time comes for you to accept your own errors.  It's not the sins we know that bite us.  It's the ones we refuse to look at.

We keep you and others like you in our prayers daily.

Blessings.

M.

And this, along with Wyatt's response is exactly why there is no chance of dialogue between us.

Your pompous post about us needing to admit our mistakes doesn't help either, but please...do continue to villainize me if it makes you feel better.

Yes, dear. Whatever.
Did you miss the smiley, then?
It was an attempt (perhaps lame and unsuccessful) to be humorous and to poke a little fun at the Orthodox.
Get over yourself - I say that with love, of course.
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« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2011, 01:28:05 PM »

Yes, dear. Whatever.
Did you miss the smiley, then?
It was an attempt (perhaps lame and unsuccessful) to be humorous and to poke a little fun at the Orthodox.
Get over yourself - I say that with love, of course.

Well...I missed it.   Tongue  Beggin' yer kind pardon!!

PS:  I think I would like you very much as a reg'aler person...So I get frustrated when we clash.
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« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2011, 03:05:38 PM »

Lord, have mercy on all of us sinners, and help us all to approach one another with greater charity.
I agree with that of course, but the problem is that some Orthodox have a distrust of the papacy and simply do not accept the teaching on supreme universal jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff.
So we Catholics have only one option in this ecumenical dialogue. In order to show the EOs that we are truly their brothers and sisters, we need to become saints. Only the light of Christ shining through Catholics will show that Christ is truly present with us as well. Grant it o Lord.

No, of course not. My goodness, you don't need to become saints - although that is something to strive for, isn't it? All you need to do is acknowledge that you were mistaken. My brother is quite frequently wrong, but he's still my brother.
 Wink

We pray you can be as "accepting" when the time comes for you to accept your own errors.  It's not the sins we know that bite us.  It's the ones we refuse to look at.

We keep you and others like you in our prayers daily.

Blessings.

M.

And this, along with Wyatt's response is exactly why there is no chance of dialogue between us.

So Laura Ingraham and EWTN's Raymond  Arroyo were right after all: "Inter-religious dialogue: Meaningless. You believe one thing and we believe another."
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« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2011, 03:22:23 PM »

Lord, have mercy on all of us sinners, and help us all to approach one another with greater charity.
I agree with that of course, but the problem is that some Orthodox have a distrust of the papacy and simply do not accept the teaching on supreme universal jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff.
So we Catholics have only one option in this ecumenical dialogue. In order to show the EOs that we are truly their brothers and sisters, we need to become saints. Only the light of Christ shining through Catholics will show that Christ is truly present with us as well. Grant it o Lord.

No, of course not. My goodness, you don't need to become saints - although that is something to strive for, isn't it? All you we Eastern Orthodox need to do is acknowledge that you we Eastern Orthodox were mistaken. My brother is We EOs are quite frequently wrong, but he's we are still my your brothers.
 Wink
This one took quite a bit of editing to get it right.  laugh
Don't choke on that vomit there, sir! Wink

In Christ,
Andrew
This last post was actually a joke, thus the smiley face, but I can see how it might be misunderstood. Mea Culpa.
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« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2011, 03:22:23 PM »

I think that some time we all misread one another's posts. It's so easy to read vitriol into a post, even when it's not there. Very unfortunate. I wish that there was a way for us to get together and find a way to be more charitable with our interactions, at least on this site.
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« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2011, 04:20:42 PM »

I think that some time we all misread one another's posts. It's so easy to read vitriol into a post, even when it's not there. Very unfortunate. I wish that there was a way for us to get together and find a way to be more charitable with our interactions, at least on this site.

Good point.  Being charitable is a choice.  Sometimes, I believe, we choose not to be. How our words are perceived and received in this kind of environment, I think, may start with watching very, very carefully every   single   word   we write.  Then going back over it again.  And again.  Posting in haste, as sometimes happens, can get us into trouble.  Asking ourselves, "Is this *really* what I want to say and how I want to say it?" and reflecting on whether we've written with charity and consideration, could go a very long way. 

Oftentimes, too, it's better to just say nothing at all, especially if dealing with people we know to be argumentative and contentious.

Okay...I'll stop preaching now  Grin Grin.

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« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2011, 04:36:43 PM »

Lord, have mercy on all of us sinners, and help us all to approach one another with greater charity.
I agree with that of course, but the problem is that some Orthodox have a distrust of the papacy and simply do not accept the teaching on supreme universal jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff.
So we Catholics have only one option in this ecumenical dialogue. In order to show the EOs that we are truly their brothers and sisters, we need to become saints. Only the light of Christ shining through Catholics will show that Christ is truly present with us as well. Grant it o Lord.

No, of course not. My goodness, you don't need to become saints - although that is something to strive for, isn't it? All you need to do is acknowledge that you were mistaken. My brother is quite frequently wrong, but he's still my brother.
 Wink

We pray you can be as "accepting" when the time comes for you to accept your own errors.  It's not the sins we know that bite us.  It's the ones we refuse to look at.

We keep you and others like you in our prayers daily.

Blessings.

M.

And this, along with Wyatt's response is exactly why there is no chance of dialogue between us.

So Laura Ingraham and EWTN's Raymond  Arroyo were right after all: "Inter-religious dialogue: Meaningless. You believe one thing and we believe another."

I wonder if Ingraham and Arroyo were referring to *all* inter-religious dialogue or to something more specific, as in dialogue between Muslims and Christians for example.  What was the context of that statement, in other words?
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« Reply #37 on: September 07, 2011, 07:35:33 PM »

I have been in contact with an orthodox priest in England Fr. Gregory Hallam, as I have not found one here that speaks English yet.

You may already know this, but he has an awesome podcast, "A Voice from the Isles," which is on Ancient Faith Radio. I love to listen to it at work.  angel



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« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2011, 09:09:14 PM »

I think that some time we all misread one another's posts. It's so easy to read vitriol into a post, even when it's not there. Very unfortunate. I wish that there was a way for us to get together and find a way to be more charitable with our interactions, at least on this site.

Good point.  Being charitable is a choice.  Sometimes, I believe, we choose not to be. How our words are perceived and received in this kind of environment, I think, may start with watching very, very carefully every   single   word   we write.  Then going back over it again.  And again.  Posting in haste, as sometimes happens, can get us into trouble.  Asking ourselves, "Is this *really* what I want to say and how I want to say it?" and reflecting on whether we've written with charity and consideration, could go a very long way. 

Oftentimes, too, it's better to just say nothing at all, especially if dealing with people we know to be argumentative and contentious.

Okay...I'll stop preaching now  Grin Grin.


All very well stated. I am going to have to really try to start putting that into practice.
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« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2011, 09:18:01 PM »

Lord, have mercy on all of us sinners, and help us all to approach one another with greater charity.
I agree with that of course, but the problem is that some Orthodox have a distrust of the papacy and simply do not accept the teaching on supreme universal jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff.
So we Catholics have only one option in this ecumenical dialogue. In order to show the EOs that we are truly their brothers and sisters, we need to become saints. Only the light of Christ shining through Catholics will show that Christ is truly present with us as well. Grant it o Lord.

No, of course not. My goodness, you don't need to become saints - although that is something to strive for, isn't it? All you we Eastern Orthodox need to do is acknowledge that you we Eastern Orthodox were mistaken. My brother is We EOs are quite frequently wrong, but he's we are still my your brothers.
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This one took quite a bit of editing to get it right.  laugh
Don't choke on that vomit there, sir! Wink

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« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2011, 09:57:08 PM »

I have been in contact with an orthodox priest in England Fr. Gregory Hallam, as I have not found one here that speaks English yet.

You may already know this, but he has an awesome podcast, "A Voice from the Isles," which is on Ancient Faith Radio. I love to listen to it at work.  angel





Yes, I get the updates on twitter, it is very good resource to listen to...
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