And lots of Baptists wouldn't bat an eye:
And believe me, I know loads of Baptists who believe "once saved, always saved" who would punch you in the throat if you called them a Calvinist.
It seems like in the protestant world (one that I still spend a lot of time in) you have to choose your side. You are either on the more conservative side with Piper, or the more liberal side with Rob Bell.
Its always funny to me to see people argue over who is right. Its as if they think these guys have thought of something "new" or "profound." Then it hit me.... For protestants, some of this IS new and profound. For the most part, they completely ignore pre-reformation church history.
Rob Bell has been labeled as a "universalist" because of his new book "Love Wins." I do not label him as that, however. I dont think he is a universalist. But if you studied history that happened before the reformation, you would know that this "new and radical idea" has already been addressed in the 5th ecumenical council. Not to mention, some of the church fathers were considered universalists.
But anyways, here is an interesting question. As an Orthodox, (protestants, catholics, or anyone else are welcome to answer too) which side would you take? Piper, or Bell? I realize your answer is probably "neither," but just pretend that you HAVE to choose!!
Yes, I am protestant Christian. Protestant Christian like to divide into different sides and choose the side they belong to .
We have five big sides: fundamentalist ,evangelical , charismatic, pentecostal.Fundamentalist and Evagelical is focus on the teaching and importance of bible and preaching of gospel. Pentecostal and charismatic is focus on the gift of holy spirit, the work, or power of holy spirit and personal spiritual experience.
What about Calvinist vs. Arminian? That's a pretty big divide.
Most protestant church today are calvinism and believe ' once saved ,always saved'.
A 2006 Lifeway survey found that only 10 percent of SBC pastors identified themselves as "five-point Calvinists." However, a similar 2007 study of young ministers by the SBC's North American Mission Board discovered that almost 35 percent of SBC ministers that graduated from SBC seminaries in 2004 and 2005 self-identified as "five-point Calvinists."
Right now there's a huge intra-(Southern) Baptist discussion/backlash/war going on about Calvinism. Interestingly enough, the lines seem to be drawn along age, with younger folks -- such as those cited in the survey above -- siding with the Calvinists and the old guard being staunchly opposed to the whole program in favor of a three-point Arminianism that mostly affirms humanity's depravity and the shorthand version of OSAS. The divinity school at my alma mater is currently embroiled in the same debate.
Calvinism for many years was a curse word, though now it's a rallying cry for those exiting certain SBC seminaries (specifically Southern and NOBTS).This
was written just before the SBC's June convention:
A statement by a non-Calvinist faction of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) has launched infighting within the nation's largest Protestant denomination, and tensions are expected to escalate Tuesday as church leaders descend on New Orleans.
The May 30 document, "A Statement of the Traditional Southern Baptist Understanding of God's Plan of Salvation," aims "to more carefully express what is generally believed by Southern Baptists about salvation." But both Southern Baptist Theological Seminary president Albert Mohler and George W. Truett Theological Seminary professor Roger Olson, in separate blog posts, said that parts of the document sound like semi-Pelagianism, a traditionally heretical understanding of Christian salvation.
On the one hand, I care nothing for this, but on the other, it affects my family and friends in very real ways at their local church levels.