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Author Topic: Rob Bell vs. John piper  (Read 4205 times) Average Rating: 0
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Ortho_cat
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« Reply #45 on: April 02, 2012, 01:12:27 PM »

I think that one of the ways in which one can begin to break out of the circle of absolute freedom versus absolute providence, which is what is being described here in fact, is to begin by thinking:

When I choose the good: when I align myself with the divine: then and only then am I truly free.

When I choose evil: I am without doubt not free but enslaved in that moment of choice.

So...it is said that Jesus came to release the captives and that is where you start to unravel this Gordian Knot... Wink

How much of you must be stuck in the mire before Jesus can no longer pull you out and set your foot upon the rock?

he can always pull you out, it's your choice whether to call out to him or not and hold on.
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« Reply #46 on: April 02, 2012, 01:18:55 PM »

I think that one of the ways in which one can begin to break out of the circle of absolute freedom versus absolute providence, which is what is being described here in fact, is to begin by thinking:

When I choose the good: when I align myself with the divine: then and only then am I truly free.

When I choose evil: I am without doubt not free but enslaved in that moment of choice.

So...it is said that Jesus came to release the captives and that is where you start to unravel this Gordian Knot... Wink

How much of you must be stuck in the mire before Jesus can no longer pull you out and set your foot upon the rock?

he can always pull you out, it's your choice whether to call out to him or not and hold on.

Of course...and if he pulls a bit harder than you'd like?...you are free to pull back but if you rip your hands out of his...is that an act of freedom or an act of one who is already enslaved?

That is the question at issue here.  For me the answer is obvious.  The sinner is never truly and wholly free.
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« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2012, 03:07:18 AM »

I'll take the Church Fathers over these guys any day. The only figures in the mainstream Christianity sphere that I even bother to stay in touch with is William Lane Craig because at least for the most part, he has not really ever said anything too contrary to Orthodoxy and he mostly just focuses on logical questions relating to God and belief in God rather than general theology.
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« Reply #48 on: September 24, 2012, 03:26:55 AM »

It seems like in the protestant world (one that I still spend a lot of time in) you have to choose your side.  You are either on the more conservative side with Piper, or the more liberal side with Rob Bell.

Its always funny to me to see people argue over who is right.  Its as if they think these guys have thought of something "new" or "profound."  Then it hit me.... For protestants, some of this IS new and profound.  For the most part, they completely ignore pre-reformation church history.  

Rob Bell has been labeled as a "universalist" because of his new book "Love Wins."  I do not label him as that, however.  I dont think he is a universalist.  But if you studied history that happened before the reformation, you would know that this "new and radical idea" has already been addressed in the 5th ecumenical council.  Not to mention, some of the church fathers were considered universalists.  

But anyways, here is an interesting question. As an Orthodox, (protestants, catholics, or anyone else are welcome to answer too) which side would you take? Piper, or Bell? I realize your answer is probably "neither," but just pretend that you HAVE to choose!!

Yes, I am protestant Christian. Protestant Christian like to divide into different sides and choose the side they belong to .

We have five big sides: fundamentalist ,evangelical , charismatic, pentecostal.Fundamentalist and Evagelical is focus on the teaching and importance of bible and preaching of gospel. Pentecostal  and charismatic is focus on the gift of holy spirit, the work, or power of holy spirit and personal spiritual experience.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 03:57:13 AM by walter1234 » Logged
Doubting Thomas
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« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2012, 11:11:43 AM »

It seems like in the protestant world (one that I still spend a lot of time in) you have to choose your side.  You are either on the more conservative side with Piper, or the more liberal side with Rob Bell.

Its always funny to me to see people argue over who is right.  Its as if they think these guys have thought of something "new" or "profound."  Then it hit me.... For protestants, some of this IS new and profound.  For the most part, they completely ignore pre-reformation church history.  

Rob Bell has been labeled as a "universalist" because of his new book "Love Wins."  I do not label him as that, however.  I dont think he is a universalist.  But if you studied history that happened before the reformation, you would know that this "new and radical idea" has already been addressed in the 5th ecumenical council.  Not to mention, some of the church fathers were considered universalists.  

But anyways, here is an interesting question. As an Orthodox, (protestants, catholics, or anyone else are welcome to answer too) which side would you take? Piper, or Bell? I realize your answer is probably "neither," but just pretend that you HAVE to choose!!

Yes, I am protestant Christian. Protestant Christian like to divide into different sides and choose the side they belong to .

We have five big sides: fundamentalist ,evangelical , charismatic, pentecostal.Fundamentalist and Evagelical is focus on the teaching and importance of bible and preaching of gospel. Pentecostal  and charismatic is focus on the gift of holy spirit, the work, or power of holy spirit and personal spiritual experience.

What about Calvinist vs. Arminian?  That's a pretty big divide.
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« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2012, 11:15:18 AM »

It seems like in the protestant world (one that I still spend a lot of time in) you have to choose your side.  You are either on the more conservative side with Piper, or the more liberal side with Rob Bell.

Its always funny to me to see people argue over who is right.  Its as if they think these guys have thought of something "new" or "profound."  Then it hit me.... For protestants, some of this IS new and profound.  For the most part, they completely ignore pre-reformation church history.  

Rob Bell has been labeled as a "universalist" because of his new book "Love Wins."  I do not label him as that, however.  I dont think he is a universalist.  But if you studied history that happened before the reformation, you would know that this "new and radical idea" has already been addressed in the 5th ecumenical council.  Not to mention, some of the church fathers were considered universalists.  

But anyways, here is an interesting question. As an Orthodox, (protestants, catholics, or anyone else are welcome to answer too) which side would you take? Piper, or Bell? I realize your answer is probably "neither," but just pretend that you HAVE to choose!!

Yes, I am protestant Christian. Protestant Christian like to divide into different sides and choose the side they belong to .

We have five big sides: fundamentalist ,evangelical , charismatic, pentecostal.Fundamentalist and Evagelical is focus on the teaching and importance of bible and preaching of gospel. Pentecostal  and charismatic is focus on the gift of holy spirit, the work, or power of holy spirit and personal spiritual experience.

What about Calvinist vs. Arminian?  That's a pretty big divide.

Most protestant church today are calvinism and believe ' once saved ,always saved'. OF couese,some of us reject this nonsense teaching,including me.
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Doubting Thomas
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« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2012, 12:30:41 PM »


Most protestant church today are calvinism and believe ' once saved ,always saved'. OF couese,some of us reject this nonsense teaching,including me.

That's good to hear.  Cool
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« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2012, 01:42:14 PM »

It seems like in the protestant world (one that I still spend a lot of time in) you have to choose your side.  You are either on the more conservative side with Piper, or the more liberal side with Rob Bell.

Its always funny to me to see people argue over who is right.  Its as if they think these guys have thought of something "new" or "profound."  Then it hit me.... For protestants, some of this IS new and profound.  For the most part, they completely ignore pre-reformation church history.  

Rob Bell has been labeled as a "universalist" because of his new book "Love Wins."  I do not label him as that, however.  I dont think he is a universalist.  But if you studied history that happened before the reformation, you would know that this "new and radical idea" has already been addressed in the 5th ecumenical council.  Not to mention, some of the church fathers were considered universalists.  

But anyways, here is an interesting question. As an Orthodox, (protestants, catholics, or anyone else are welcome to answer too) which side would you take? Piper, or Bell? I realize your answer is probably "neither," but just pretend that you HAVE to choose!!

Yes, I am protestant Christian. Protestant Christian like to divide into different sides and choose the side they belong to .

We have five big sides: fundamentalist ,evangelical , charismatic, pentecostal.Fundamentalist and Evagelical is focus on the teaching and importance of bible and preaching of gospel. Pentecostal  and charismatic is focus on the gift of holy spirit, the work, or power of holy spirit and personal spiritual experience.

What about Calvinist vs. Arminian?  That's a pretty big divide.

Most protestant church today are calvinism and believe ' once saved ,always saved'.
This is not the true teaching of Islam.




Seriously, this is not the teaching of Calvinism. It's just the reductionist version of one point in a highly systematic theology boiled down in a way that people can swallow.

And believe me, I know loads of Baptists who believe "once saved, always saved" who would punch you in the throat if you called them a Calvinist.
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« Reply #53 on: September 24, 2012, 02:42:00 PM »

It seems like in the protestant world (one that I still spend a lot of time in) you have to choose your side.  You are either on the more conservative side with Piper, or the more liberal side with Rob Bell.

Its always funny to me to see people argue over who is right.  Its as if they think these guys have thought of something "new" or "profound."  Then it hit me.... For protestants, some of this IS new and profound.  For the most part, they completely ignore pre-reformation church history.  

Rob Bell has been labeled as a "universalist" because of his new book "Love Wins."  I do not label him as that, however.  I dont think he is a universalist.  But if you studied history that happened before the reformation, you would know that this "new and radical idea" has already been addressed in the 5th ecumenical council.  Not to mention, some of the church fathers were considered universalists.  

But anyways, here is an interesting question. As an Orthodox, (protestants, catholics, or anyone else are welcome to answer too) which side would you take? Piper, or Bell? I realize your answer is probably "neither," but just pretend that you HAVE to choose!!

Yes, I am protestant Christian. Protestant Christian like to divide into different sides and choose the side they belong to .

We have five big sides: fundamentalist ,evangelical , charismatic, pentecostal.Fundamentalist and Evagelical is focus on the teaching and importance of bible and preaching of gospel. Pentecostal  and charismatic is focus on the gift of holy spirit, the work, or power of holy spirit and personal spiritual experience.

What about Calvinist vs. Arminian?  That's a pretty big divide.

Most protestant church today are calvinism and believe ' once saved ,always saved'.
And believe me, I know loads of Baptists who believe "once saved, always saved" who would punch you in the throat if you called them a Calvinist.
And lots of Baptists wouldn't bat an eye:

Quote
A 2006 Lifeway survey found that only 10 percent of SBC pastors identified themselves as "five-point Calvinists." However, a similar 2007 study of young ministers by the SBC's North American Mission Board discovered that almost 35 percent of SBC ministers that graduated from SBC seminaries in 2004 and 2005 self-identified as "five-point Calvinists."
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« Reply #54 on: September 24, 2012, 06:28:54 PM »

It seems like in the protestant world (one that I still spend a lot of time in) you have to choose your side.  You are either on the more conservative side with Piper, or the more liberal side with Rob Bell.

Its always funny to me to see people argue over who is right.  Its as if they think these guys have thought of something "new" or "profound."  Then it hit me.... For protestants, some of this IS new and profound.  For the most part, they completely ignore pre-reformation church history.  

Rob Bell has been labeled as a "universalist" because of his new book "Love Wins."  I do not label him as that, however.  I dont think he is a universalist.  But if you studied history that happened before the reformation, you would know that this "new and radical idea" has already been addressed in the 5th ecumenical council.  Not to mention, some of the church fathers were considered universalists.  

But anyways, here is an interesting question. As an Orthodox, (protestants, catholics, or anyone else are welcome to answer too) which side would you take? Piper, or Bell? I realize your answer is probably "neither," but just pretend that you HAVE to choose!!

Yes, I am protestant Christian. Protestant Christian like to divide into different sides and choose the side they belong to .

We have five big sides: fundamentalist ,evangelical , charismatic, pentecostal.Fundamentalist and Evagelical is focus on the teaching and importance of bible and preaching of gospel. Pentecostal  and charismatic is focus on the gift of holy spirit, the work, or power of holy spirit and personal spiritual experience.

What about Calvinist vs. Arminian?  That's a pretty big divide.

Most protestant church today are calvinism and believe ' once saved ,always saved'.
And believe me, I know loads of Baptists who believe "once saved, always saved" who would punch you in the throat if you called them a Calvinist.
And lots of Baptists wouldn't bat an eye:

Quote
A 2006 Lifeway survey found that only 10 percent of SBC pastors identified themselves as "five-point Calvinists." However, a similar 2007 study of young ministers by the SBC's North American Mission Board discovered that almost 35 percent of SBC ministers that graduated from SBC seminaries in 2004 and 2005 self-identified as "five-point Calvinists."

Right now there's a huge intra-(Southern) Baptist discussion/backlash/war going on about Calvinism. Interestingly enough, the lines seem to be drawn along age, with younger folks -- such as those cited in the survey above -- siding with the Calvinists and the old guard being staunchly opposed to the whole program in favor of a three-point Arminianism that mostly affirms humanity's depravity and the shorthand version of OSAS. The divinity school at my alma mater is currently embroiled in the same debate.

Calvinism for many years was a curse word, though now it's a rallying cry for those exiting certain SBC seminaries (specifically Southern and NOBTS).

This was written just before the SBC's June convention:

Quote
A statement by a non-Calvinist faction of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) has launched infighting within the nation's largest Protestant denomination, and tensions are expected to escalate Tuesday as church leaders descend on New Orleans.

[...]

The May 30 document, "A Statement of the Traditional Southern Baptist Understanding of God's Plan of Salvation," aims "to more carefully express what is generally believed by Southern Baptists about salvation." But both Southern Baptist Theological Seminary president Albert Mohler and George W. Truett Theological Seminary professor Roger Olson, in separate blog posts, said that parts of the document sound like semi-Pelagianism, a traditionally heretical understanding of Christian salvation.

On the one hand, I care nothing for this, but on the other, it affects my family and friends in very real ways at their local church levels.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 06:29:31 PM by Agabus » Logged

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« Reply #55 on: September 25, 2012, 12:13:31 AM »

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Most protestant church today are calvinism and believe ' once saved ,always saved'.
This is not the true teaching of Islam.

"The Prophet (pbuh) said: Three things are the roots of faith: To refrain from [killing] a person who utters, 'There is no god but Allah' and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action..."

-Abu Dawud 14:2526 Hadith
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« Reply #56 on: October 01, 2012, 11:27:34 AM »

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I have just found a short video/teaching of John Piper ! Quite horrible!!!  Sad Angry Cry Lips Sealed Cry


(God's wrath is coming!!THis is  infinite , omipresent anger you don't want to tangle in the judgment day!! Be aware of it!Believe Jesus and let His blood to protect you from the wrath of God in judgment day!!   police )
« Last Edit: October 01, 2012, 11:35:00 AM by walter1234 » Logged
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