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Author Topic: The Sacred Heart as I know it.  (Read 21212 times) Average Rating: 0
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Aindriú
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« Reply #450 on: November 02, 2011, 02:25:27 PM »

The Church is universal.

In the sense that it is greater than the sum of its parts however each part is not bound to experience and teach the faith in identical ways...If that were the case you'd all be in trouble.
so you keep claiming.

The same Faith must be taught.  Whether in identical or dissimilar ways is irrelevant.

Like toll houses, metaphorical hell, and the latinclasm.  Grin

It is a puzzlement.  Orthodox believers will demand for themselves a leeway to be diverse that they absolutely and most rudely refuse to offer to the Church of my Baptism.
because diverse=/=contradictory.

Unless it's 'western'?

I'm not just picking on Orthodoxy. I'm cynical of both sides. But I do see a double standard applied here.

If only there was an Byz Cath parish near where I'm moving to. Then I could be critical of all sides. Cheesy
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 02:28:50 PM by Aindriú » Logged


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elijahmaria
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« Reply #451 on: November 02, 2011, 02:33:30 PM »

The Church is universal.

In the sense that it is greater than the sum of its parts however each part is not bound to experience and teach the faith in identical ways...If that were the case you'd all be in trouble.
so you keep claiming.

The same Faith must be taught.  Whether in identical or dissimilar ways is irrelevant.

Like toll houses, metaphorical hell, and the latinclasm.  Grin

It is a puzzlement.  Orthodox believers will demand for themselves a leeway to be diverse that they absolutely and most rudely refuse to offer to the Church of my Baptism.
because diverse=/=contradictory.

Unless it's 'western'?

I'm not just picking on Orthodoxy. I'm cynical of both sides. But I do see a double standard applied here.

If only there was an Byz Cath parish near where I'm moving to. Then I could be critical of all sides. Cheesy

Ideally you'll find a Byz Cath parish across the street from a western rite Orthodox parish...THEN...you can be critical of all...western Catholics... Grin...

Don't fergit the true orientalis!!

BTW I am happy you can see that there's an assertion of contradiction and not a demonstration of contradiction in many of the things that Orthodoxy says about the west.

Don't worry about being critical.  It is every thinking man's prerogative!!

Just don't forget that faith seeks understanding and not the other way around!!
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 02:38:00 PM by elijahmaria » Logged

ialmisry
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« Reply #452 on: November 02, 2011, 03:13:29 PM »

The Church is universal.

In the sense that it is greater than the sum of its parts however each part is not bound to experience and teach the faith in identical ways...If that were the case you'd all be in trouble.
so you keep claiming.

The same Faith must be taught.  Whether in identical or dissimilar ways is irrelevant.

Like toll houses, metaphorical hell, and the latinclasm.  Grin

It is a puzzlement.  Orthodox believers will demand for themselves a leeway to be diverse that they absolutely and most rudely refuse to offer to the Church of my Baptism.
because diverse=/=contradictory.

Unless it's 'western'?
You would have to ask someone who had a problem with the west to answer your question.

I always took Bernarad of Clairveaux as Western, for instance. Didn't stop him from condemning the IC.  Nor, does it seem, that the West needed the body part cults during the whole of the first millenium, when it was Orthodox, nor for over half the millenium or so since it left Orthodoxy.  Not even baby steps in that direction centuries after 1054.

I'm not just picking on Orthodoxy. I'm cynical of both sides. But I do see a double standard applied here.
could be just the view from the fence.

If only there was an Byz Cath parish near where I'm moving to. Then I could be critical of all sides. Cheesy
and that's what is important.
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ialmisry
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« Reply #453 on: November 02, 2011, 03:18:32 PM »

The Church is universal.

In the sense that it is greater than the sum of its parts however each part is not bound to experience and teach the faith in identical ways...If that were the case you'd all be in trouble.
so you keep claiming.

The same Faith must be taught.  Whether in identical or dissimilar ways is irrelevant.

Like toll houses, metaphorical hell, and the latinclasm.  Grin

It is a puzzlement.  Orthodox believers will demand for themselves a leeway to be diverse that they absolutely and most rudely refuse to offer to the Church of my Baptism.
because diverse=/=contradictory.

Unless it's 'western'?

I'm not just picking on Orthodoxy. I'm cynical of both sides. But I do see a double standard applied here.

If only there was an Byz Cath parish near where I'm moving to. Then I could be critical of all sides. Cheesy

Ideally you'll find a Byz Cath parish across the street from a western rite Orthodox parish...THEN...you can be critical of all...western Catholics... Grin...

Don't fergit the true orientalis!!

BTW I am happy you can see that there's an assertion of contradiction and not a demonstration of contradiction in many of the things that Orthodoxy says about the west.


Don't worry about being critical.  It is every thinking man's prerogative!!
so much so that no thinking need be demonstrated.

Just don't forget that faith seeks understanding and not the other way around!!
I seem to remember your scholastics arguments contradicting each other on that being part of the issue behind your supreme pontiffs Innocent II and Celestine III contradicting each other when this came to a head at Sens between Bernard and Abelard, which your supreme pontiff Pius decided to cite as proof of the changeless infallible teaching of your supreme pontiffs.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 03:21:55 PM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
elijahmaria
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« Reply #454 on: November 02, 2011, 05:09:10 PM »

The Church is universal.

In the sense that it is greater than the sum of its parts however each part is not bound to experience and teach the faith in identical ways...If that were the case you'd all be in trouble.
so you keep claiming.

The same Faith must be taught.  Whether in identical or dissimilar ways is irrelevant.

Like toll houses, metaphorical hell, and the latinclasm.  Grin

It is a puzzlement.  Orthodox believers will demand for themselves a leeway to be diverse that they absolutely and most rudely refuse to offer to the Church of my Baptism.
because diverse=/=contradictory.

Unless it's 'western'?

I'm not just picking on Orthodoxy. I'm cynical of both sides. But I do see a double standard applied here.

If only there was an Byz Cath parish near where I'm moving to. Then I could be critical of all sides. Cheesy

Ideally you'll find a Byz Cath parish across the street from a western rite Orthodox parish...THEN...you can be critical of all...western Catholics... Grin...

Don't fergit the true orientalis!!

BTW I am happy you can see that there's an assertion of contradiction and not a demonstration of contradiction in many of the things that Orthodoxy says about the west.


Don't worry about being critical.  It is every thinking man's prerogative!!
so much so that no thinking need be demonstrated.

Just don't forget that faith seeks understanding and not the other way around!!
I seem to remember your scholastics arguments contradicting each other on that being part of the issue behind your supreme pontiffs Innocent II and Celestine III contradicting each other when this came to a head at Sens between Bernard and Abelard, which your supreme pontiff Pius decided to cite as proof of the changeless infallible teaching of your supreme pontiffs.

We are not convinced that this demonstrates many "faiths" any more than Orthodoxy's internal contradictions demonstrate many "faiths"...
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ialmisry
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« Reply #455 on: November 02, 2011, 05:14:56 PM »

We are not convinced that this demonstrates many "faiths" any more than Orthodoxy's internal contradictions demonstrate many "faiths"...
You have yet to demonstrate any internal contradictions of Orthodoxy.  Only when and if you did, would we get to the issue of conviction.
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
elijahmaria
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« Reply #456 on: November 02, 2011, 05:23:00 PM »

We are not convinced that this demonstrates many "faiths" any more than Orthodoxy's internal contradictions demonstrate many "faiths"...
You have yet to demonstrate any internal contradictions of Orthodoxy.  Only when and if you did, would we get to the issue of conviction.

Al Misry offers the inference that there are no internal contradictions in Orthodoxy of any kind.

I don't believe him.
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stanley123
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« Reply #457 on: November 03, 2011, 04:14:17 AM »

We are not convinced that this demonstrates many "faiths" any more than Orthodoxy's internal contradictions demonstrate many "faiths"...
You have yet to demonstrate any internal contradictions of Orthodoxy.  Only when and if you did, would we get to the issue of conviction.
I am not sure what you mean by internal contradiction, but is it not true that there have been  differing opinions on some issues.
1. The morality of slavery.
2. Whether women should wear headcovering in Church.
3. Artificial contraception.
4. the calendar issue.
5. Saying a short prayer of thanksgiving at dinnertime with your Catholic relative.
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« Reply #458 on: November 03, 2011, 10:53:59 AM »

We are not convinced that this demonstrates many "faiths" any more than Orthodoxy's internal contradictions demonstrate many "faiths"...
You have yet to demonstrate any internal contradictions of Orthodoxy.  Only when and if you did, would we get to the issue of conviction.
I am not sure what you mean by internal contradiction, but is it not true that there have been  differing opinions on some issues.
1. The morality of slavery.
2. Whether women should wear headcovering in Church.
3. Artificial contraception.
4. the calendar issue.
5. Saying a short prayer of thanksgiving at dinnertime with your Catholic relative.
What a pity...there you go inconveniencing them with facts again.
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stpaulphilip
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« Reply #459 on: January 31, 2012, 06:27:50 PM »

The Bishop of the OCA recently prayed with a Roman Catholic Bishop and a bunch of Protestants at the March for Life Rally in Washington, DC.  Didn't he violate a boat load of Canons of the Orthodox Church?  I've read some of the Canons that call for defrocking and excommunication.  What do I make of this? 

PT
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« Reply #460 on: January 31, 2012, 09:34:31 PM »

Are you sure it's not simply that they came to the event and prayed at it, and he came to the event and prayed at it? I mean, they were repeating the same prayer, same words, at the same time, aloud? Are you sure?
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stpaulphilip
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« Reply #461 on: January 31, 2012, 11:01:46 PM »

Are you sure it's not simply that they came to the event and prayed at it, and he came to the event and prayed at it? I mean, they were repeating the same prayer, same words, at the same time, aloud? Are you sure?

Well, the way I understand it is he opened up the event with prayer along side the Roman Catholics, and it was responsive prayer.  Here is a link to an article on the OCA website.  http://oca.org/news/headline-news/metropolitan-jonahs-prayer-at-the-39th-march-for-life-offering-in-unity-of
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« Reply #462 on: January 31, 2012, 11:09:04 PM »

Nothing in that news report would go to indicate that there was joint prayer offered, or that the sectarians who were present, had alternated responses with the Metropolitan. The context implied that they alternate FROM YEAR TO YEAR in giving opening prayers.

I don't see any breaking of Canons there. I think it is kind of weird to call God the Father the Redeemer, or to call God the Father the "Light of the World," when "Redeemer" and "Light of the World" are usually associated theologically with the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. Kind of odd, but no canon-breaking nor overt heresy.
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stpaulphilip
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« Reply #463 on: January 31, 2012, 11:19:22 PM »

Thanks for pointing that out.  I, too, thought it was strange that he referred to God as Redeemer and Light. 

Paul
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« Reply #464 on: January 31, 2012, 11:29:16 PM »

We are not convinced that this demonstrates many "faiths" any more than Orthodoxy's internal contradictions demonstrate many "faiths"...
You have yet to demonstrate any internal contradictions of Orthodoxy.  Only when and if you did, would we get to the issue of conviction.

Al Misry offers the inference that there are no internal contradictions in Orthodoxy of any kind.

I don't believe him.

Mary, what does this have to do with anything?  If I say I don't believe you about something, isn't that my problem?  I either have to demonstrate my position or get off the pot.

Also, the remark about the church of your baptism...this is an emotional response.  Emotions are deceptive.  Emotions are not the same as the heart.  The heart is of the nous, the emotions from the pathitikon. 
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