Author Topic: The Sacred Heart as I know it.  (Read 25643 times)

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Offline J Michael

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #360 on: October 20, 2011, 04:27:05 PM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.

POPE-BARTHOLOMEW Mar-6-2008 (710 words) With photos. xxxi

Pope, Orthodox patriarch meet privately, pray together

By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Pope Benedict XVI and Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople spent almost half an hour speaking privately March 6 before going into a small Vatican chapel to pray together.


See the whole article:http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0801277.htm

Did +Bartholomew sin?
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline ialmisry

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #361 on: October 20, 2011, 04:50:09 PM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.

POPE-BARTHOLOMEW Mar-6-2008 (710 words) With photos. xxxi

Pope, Orthodox patriarch meet privately, pray together

By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Pope Benedict XVI and Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople spent almost half an hour speaking privately March 6 before going into a small Vatican chapel to pray together.


See the whole article:http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0801277.htm

Did +Bartholomew sin?
did they pray in unison, or side by side?

Btw, we don't have a supreme pontiff, so the EP sinning doesn't give us any existentialist crisis.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline J Michael

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #362 on: October 20, 2011, 04:59:44 PM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.

POPE-BARTHOLOMEW Mar-6-2008 (710 words) With photos. xxxi

Pope, Orthodox patriarch meet privately, pray together

By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Pope Benedict XVI and Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople spent almost half an hour speaking privately March 6 before going into a small Vatican chapel to pray together.


See the whole article:http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0801277.htm

Did +Bartholomew sin?
did they pray in unison, or side by side?

Btw, we don't have a supreme pontiff, so the EP sinning doesn't give us any existentialist crisis.

Fr. Aidan said it was a sin for Orthodox to pray together with those of another faith.  +Bartholomew (Orthodox) reportedly prayed together with Pope Benedict (Catholic).  If Orthodox and Catholics are not the same faith, did +Bartholomew sin? 

I don't know whether the prayed in unison or side by side or what.  Here's a further quote from the link: "After a few moments, the two began reciting the Lord's Prayer in Latin. When the prayer was finished, the pope turned to his guest -- as if to see if he was ready to leave -- and the patriarch began reciting the Hail Mary in Latin. The pope joined in.

When the prayer was finished, the two turned to their aides and together blessed them.
"

Draw your own conclusions. 

Whether +Bartholomew sins or not doesn't give you an existentialist crisis?  Phew....Glad to hear it  ;).  Nor does it give us one.

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline Fr.Aidan

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #363 on: October 20, 2011, 05:21:20 PM »
Yes, if things occurred as described, it was a sin.

We all have our failings. Lord forgive us.

Offline J Michael

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #364 on: October 20, 2011, 05:28:26 PM »
Yes, if things occurred as described, it was a sin.

We all have our failings. Lord forgive us.

Amen.

And may we be able to forgive each other and ourselves.

(I won't suggest we pray together about that  ;))
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline stanley123

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #365 on: October 20, 2011, 08:40:19 PM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.
if an Orthodox said a prayer with a Catholic, would he go to hell for that? Or would he be able to be purified in Purgatory with other Catholics and then get to go to heaven?

Offline stanley123

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #366 on: October 20, 2011, 08:42:16 PM »
Yes, if things occurred as described, it was a sin.
Suppose then that he does not repent, would he still go straight to heaven, in spite of these sins? Or would he have to spend some time in Purgatory to purify his soul before entering heaven? Or does he go to hell?

Offline LBK

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #367 on: October 20, 2011, 08:48:20 PM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.

For the record, I was present at these RCC services as a passive observer. No participation in any way, and certainly no receiving of Communion. Though family members of the newly-confirmed were invited to receive a blessing without receiving Communion (those who were not receiving, be they RCC or not, were asked to cross their arms over their chests), I chose not to join the queue.

And, Stanley, you have yet to answer my question of the existence or otherwise of mixed marriages in your family.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2011, 09:05:26 PM by LBK »
No longer posting here. Anyone is welcome to PM me or email me at the address in my profile.

Offline ignatius

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #368 on: October 20, 2011, 11:19:51 PM »
Boy, I haven't missed a thing in this place have I?  :laugh:
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #369 on: October 21, 2011, 11:31:14 AM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.

POPE-BARTHOLOMEW Mar-6-2008 (710 words) With photos. xxxi

Pope, Orthodox patriarch meet privately, pray together

By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Pope Benedict XVI and Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople spent almost half an hour speaking privately March 6 before going into a small Vatican chapel to pray together.


See the whole article:http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0801277.htm

Did +Bartholomew sin?



I tire of extreme anti-ecumenical talk, especially when one bothers to fully understand and read what both sides write and publish, including the Moscow Patriarchate... "Clarification is in the eyes of the beholder", I suppose, how about these?

http://www.mospat.ru/en/2011/10/07/news49170/ (American secular choir sings at service....)

http://www.mospat.ru/en/2011/10/07/news49170/ (Pope presented with Icon, both hierarchs photographed venerating it together....)

http://www.mospat.ru/ru/2011/10/19/news50018/  (annual interfaith in London Orthodox Cathedral with Anglicans...!!!!)

http://www.mospat.ru/ru/2011/10/19/news50018/ (read the sermon...)

and of course, Russian Orthodox pilgrims meeting, praying and concelebrating Divine  Liturgy with the Ecumenical Patriarch in Constantinople... http://www.mospat.ru/ru/2011/10/18/news49937/


Offline J Michael

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #370 on: October 21, 2011, 12:02:07 PM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.

POPE-BARTHOLOMEW Mar-6-2008 (710 words) With photos. xxxi

Pope, Orthodox patriarch meet privately, pray together

By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Pope Benedict XVI and Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople spent almost half an hour speaking privately March 6 before going into a small Vatican chapel to pray together.


See the whole article:http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0801277.htm

Did +Bartholomew sin?



I tire of extreme anti-ecumenical talk, especially when one bothers to fully understand and read what both sides write and publish, including the Moscow Patriarchate... "Clarification is in the eyes of the beholder", I suppose, how about these?

http://www.mospat.ru/en/2011/10/07/news49170/ (American secular choir sings at service....)

http://www.mospat.ru/en/2011/10/07/news49170/ (Pope presented with Icon, both hierarchs photographed venerating it together....)

http://www.mospat.ru/ru/2011/10/19/news50018/  (annual interfaith in London Orthodox Cathedral with Anglicans...!!!!)

http://www.mospat.ru/ru/2011/10/19/news50018/ (read the sermon...)

and of course, Russian Orthodox pilgrims meeting, praying and concelebrating Divine  Liturgy with the Ecumenical Patriarch in Constantinople... http://www.mospat.ru/ru/2011/10/18/news49937/



Soooo many sinners!!!!!! :o :o :o  ;D  Well, at least according to Fr. Aidan according to the MP.

Did the MP *really* state that it was a "sin" for Orthodox to pray with non-Orthodox??  I'd love to see the statement.  And, if there is such a statement, what do other bishops/synods/Patriarchates have to say about it?
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #371 on: October 21, 2011, 12:32:11 PM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.

POPE-BARTHOLOMEW Mar-6-2008 (710 words) With photos. xxxi

Pope, Orthodox patriarch meet privately, pray together

By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Pope Benedict XVI and Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople spent almost half an hour speaking privately March 6 before going into a small Vatican chapel to pray together.


See the whole article:http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0801277.htm

Did +Bartholomew sin?



I tire of extreme anti-ecumenical talk, especially when one bothers to fully understand and read what both sides write and publish, including the Moscow Patriarchate... "Clarification is in the eyes of the beholder", I suppose, how about these?

http://www.mospat.ru/en/2011/10/07/news49170/ (American secular choir sings at service....)

http://www.mospat.ru/en/2011/10/07/news49170/ (Pope presented with Icon, both hierarchs photographed venerating it together....)

http://www.mospat.ru/ru/2011/10/19/news50018/  (annual interfaith in London Orthodox Cathedral with Anglicans...!!!!)

http://www.mospat.ru/ru/2011/10/19/news50018/ (read the sermon...)

and of course, Russian Orthodox pilgrims meeting, praying and concelebrating Divine  Liturgy with the Ecumenical Patriarch in Constantinople... http://www.mospat.ru/ru/2011/10/18/news49937/



Soooo many sinners!!!!!! :o :o :o  ;D  Well, at least according to Fr. Aidan according to the MP.

Did the MP *really* state that it was a "sin" for Orthodox to pray with non-Orthodox??  I'd love to see the statement.  And, if there is such a statement, what do other bishops/synods/Patriarchates have to say about it?

Resumption of communion, when it comes, is going to be impossible for many to accept.

M.

Offline J Michael

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #372 on: October 21, 2011, 01:06:11 PM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.

POPE-BARTHOLOMEW Mar-6-2008 (710 words) With photos. xxxi

Pope, Orthodox patriarch meet privately, pray together

By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Pope Benedict XVI and Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople spent almost half an hour speaking privately March 6 before going into a small Vatican chapel to pray together.


See the whole article:http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0801277.htm

Did +Bartholomew sin?



I tire of extreme anti-ecumenical talk, especially when one bothers to fully understand and read what both sides write and publish, including the Moscow Patriarchate... "Clarification is in the eyes of the beholder", I suppose, how about these?

http://www.mospat.ru/en/2011/10/07/news49170/ (American secular choir sings at service....)

http://www.mospat.ru/en/2011/10/07/news49170/ (Pope presented with Icon, both hierarchs photographed venerating it together....)

http://www.mospat.ru/ru/2011/10/19/news50018/  (annual interfaith in London Orthodox Cathedral with Anglicans...!!!!)

http://www.mospat.ru/ru/2011/10/19/news50018/ (read the sermon...)

and of course, Russian Orthodox pilgrims meeting, praying and concelebrating Divine  Liturgy with the Ecumenical Patriarch in Constantinople... http://www.mospat.ru/ru/2011/10/18/news49937/



Soooo many sinners!!!!!! :o :o :o  ;D  Well, at least according to Fr. Aidan according to the MP.

Did the MP *really* state that it was a "sin" for Orthodox to pray with non-Orthodox??  I'd love to see the statement.  And, if there is such a statement, what do other bishops/synods/Patriarchates have to say about it?

Resumption of communion, when it comes, is going to be impossible for many to accept.

M.

That really *is* sad.  I guess they will be the ones worse off for it.  I can't help but wonder, will they then "protest" and break communion--again?
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline ialmisry

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #373 on: October 21, 2011, 01:58:22 PM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.

POPE-BARTHOLOMEW Mar-6-2008 (710 words) With photos. xxxi

Pope, Orthodox patriarch meet privately, pray together

By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Pope Benedict XVI and Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople spent almost half an hour speaking privately March 6 before going into a small Vatican chapel to pray together.


See the whole article:http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0801277.htm

Did +Bartholomew sin?
did they pray in unison, or side by side?

Btw, we don't have a supreme pontiff, so the EP sinning doesn't give us any existentialist crisis.

Fr. Aidan said it was a sin for Orthodox to pray together with those of another faith.  +Bartholomew (Orthodox) reportedly prayed together with Pope Benedict (Catholic).  If Orthodox and Catholics are not the same faith, did +Bartholomew sin? 

I don't know whether the prayed in unison or side by side or what.  Here's a further quote from the link: "After a few moments, the two began reciting the Lord's Prayer in Latin. When the prayer was finished, the pope turned to his guest -- as if to see if he was ready to leave -- and the patriarch began reciting the Hail Mary in Latin. The pope joined in.

When the prayer was finished, the two turned to their aides and together blessed them.
"

Draw your own conclusions. 

Whether +Bartholomew sins or not doesn't give you an existentialist crisis?  Phew....Glad to hear it  ;).  Nor does it give us one.
you have a supreme pontiff for that. In fact, you have often had several at one time to give you an existentialist crisis.

When the EP vests and concelebrates with the Vatican, I'll worry about it.  If and when he communes with the Vatican, I will call for his deposition.  We dealt with this recently in Romania.  Otherwise, I'll leave EP Bartholomew's father confessor and the Holy Synod of Constantinople to worry about it.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #374 on: October 21, 2011, 01:59:24 PM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.
if an Orthodox said a prayer with a Catholic, would he go to hell for that? Or would he be able to be purified in Purgatory with other Catholics and then get to go to heaven?
since purgatory doesn't exist, no.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #375 on: October 21, 2011, 02:02:26 PM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.

POPE-BARTHOLOMEW Mar-6-2008 (710 words) With photos. xxxi

Pope, Orthodox patriarch meet privately, pray together

By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Pope Benedict XVI and Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople spent almost half an hour speaking privately March 6 before going into a small Vatican chapel to pray together.


See the whole article:http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0801277.htm

Did +Bartholomew sin?



I tire of extreme anti-ecumenical talk, especially when one bothers to fully understand and read what both sides write and publish, including the Moscow Patriarchate... "Clarification is in the eyes of the beholder", I suppose, how about these?

http://www.mospat.ru/en/2011/10/07/news49170/ (American secular choir sings at service....)

http://www.mospat.ru/en/2011/10/07/news49170/ (Pope presented with Icon, both hierarchs photographed venerating it together....)

http://www.mospat.ru/ru/2011/10/19/news50018/  (annual interfaith in London Orthodox Cathedral with Anglicans...!!!!)

http://www.mospat.ru/ru/2011/10/19/news50018/ (read the sermon...)

and of course, Russian Orthodox pilgrims meeting, praying and concelebrating Divine  Liturgy with the Ecumenical Patriarch in Constantinople... http://www.mospat.ru/ru/2011/10/18/news49937/



Soooo many sinners!!!!!! :o :o :o  ;D  Well, at least according to Fr. Aidan according to the MP.

Did the MP *really* state that it was a "sin" for Orthodox to pray with non-Orthodox??  I'd love to see the statement.  And, if there is such a statement, what do other bishops/synods/Patriarchates have to say about it?

Resumption of communion, when it comes, is going to be impossible for many to accept.
Yes, I suspect the numbers of Sedevantissts will shoot up: since it will only come with the repentance of the Vatican, it won't be difficult for the Orthodox to accept at all, but those who cling to Ultramontanism will be at a loss how to explain the situation.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #376 on: October 21, 2011, 02:03:55 PM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.

POPE-BARTHOLOMEW Mar-6-2008 (710 words) With photos. xxxi

Pope, Orthodox patriarch meet privately, pray together

By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Pope Benedict XVI and Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople spent almost half an hour speaking privately March 6 before going into a small Vatican chapel to pray together.


See the whole article:http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0801277.htm

Did +Bartholomew sin?



I tire of extreme anti-ecumenical talk, especially when one bothers to fully understand and read what both sides write and publish, including the Moscow Patriarchate... "Clarification is in the eyes of the beholder", I suppose, how about these?

http://www.mospat.ru/en/2011/10/07/news49170/ (American secular choir sings at service....)

http://www.mospat.ru/en/2011/10/07/news49170/ (Pope presented with Icon, both hierarchs photographed venerating it together....)

http://www.mospat.ru/ru/2011/10/19/news50018/  (annual interfaith in London Orthodox Cathedral with Anglicans...!!!!)

http://www.mospat.ru/ru/2011/10/19/news50018/ (read the sermon...)

and of course, Russian Orthodox pilgrims meeting, praying and concelebrating Divine  Liturgy with the Ecumenical Patriarch in Constantinople... http://www.mospat.ru/ru/2011/10/18/news49937/



Soooo many sinners!!!!!! :o :o :o  ;D  Well, at least according to Fr. Aidan according to the MP.

Did the MP *really* state that it was a "sin" for Orthodox to pray with non-Orthodox??  I'd love to see the statement.  And, if there is such a statement, what do other bishops/synods/Patriarchates have to say about it?

Resumption of communion, when it comes, is going to be impossible for many to accept.

M.

That really *is* sad.  I guess they will be the ones worse off for it.  I can't help but wonder, will they then "protest" and break communion--again?
aren't you along the border with the sedenvacantists? you would know better than the rest of us I suppose.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline dzheremi

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #377 on: October 21, 2011, 02:15:52 PM »
Why all the hue and cry over how sad it is that this theoretical situation would be hard for some to accept? There's plenty to deal with in the real world that is much more sad than your "what ifs" that are not even within the realm of possibility. The Roman Church does not control the Holy Spirit. There is no "when it happens" separate from very real and immediate cooperation of the recalcitrant. You don't get to have communion just because you want it or you think it would be nice or whatever.

I am saddened to see the Latin church capitalize on every little statement from or meeting with an Orthodox representative so as to give the Roman faithful false hope of reunion. Real hope is so much better, but requires an understanding and spirit of repentance that is apparently beyond the Roman Catholic Church and its Pope, even with his magical infallibility powers.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 02:16:42 PM by dzheremi »

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #378 on: October 21, 2011, 09:30:47 PM »
Why all the hue and cry over how sad it is that this theoretical situation would be hard for some to accept? There's plenty to deal with in the real world that is much more sad than your "what ifs" that are not even within the realm of possibility. The Roman Church does not control the Holy Spirit. There is no "when it happens" separate from very real and immediate cooperation of the recalcitrant. You don't get to have communion just because you want it or you think it would be nice or whatever.

I am saddened to see the Latin church capitalize on every little statement from or meeting with an Orthodox representative so as to give the Roman faithful false hope of reunion. Real hope is so much better, but requires an understanding and spirit of repentance that is apparently beyond the Roman Catholic Church and its Pope, even with his magical infallibility powers.

 :D

I am taking my cue today, on the approaching resumption of communion, from a recent posting on the web-site of a very perspicacious Orthodox priest!!

 :D

Offline ialmisry

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #379 on: October 21, 2011, 09:41:07 PM »
Why all the hue and cry over how sad it is that this theoretical situation would be hard for some to accept? There's plenty to deal with in the real world that is much more sad than your "what ifs" that are not even within the realm of possibility. The Roman Church does not control the Holy Spirit. There is no "when it happens" separate from very real and immediate cooperation of the recalcitrant. You don't get to have communion just because you want it or you think it would be nice or whatever.

I am saddened to see the Latin church capitalize on every little statement from or meeting with an Orthodox representative so as to give the Roman faithful false hope of reunion. Real hope is so much better, but requires an understanding and spirit of repentance that is apparently beyond the Roman Catholic Church and its Pope, even with his magical infallibility powers.

 :D

I am taking my cue today, on the approaching resumption of communion, from a recent posting on the web-site of a very perspicacious Orthodox priest!!

 :D
who will remain nameless, in the anonymity of Oz. ;)
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline stanley123

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #380 on: October 21, 2011, 09:46:01 PM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.
if an Orthodox said a prayer with a Catholic, would he go to hell for that? Or would he be able to be purified in Purgatory with other Catholics and then get to go to heaven?
since purgatory doesn't exist, no.
Well then if you said a prayer, say the Our Father, with a Catholic and did not have a chance to repent, would you go to heaven or hell?

Offline dzheremi

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #381 on: October 21, 2011, 09:47:05 PM »
"The approaching resumption of communion"...? You know something we don't, elijahmaria? :laugh:


Offline ialmisry

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #382 on: October 21, 2011, 09:50:22 PM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.
if an Orthodox said a prayer with a Catholic, would he go to hell for that? Or would he be able to be purified in Purgatory with other Catholics and then get to go to heaven?
since purgatory doesn't exist, no.
Well then if you said a prayer, say the Our Father, with a Catholic and did not have a chance to repent, would you go to heaven or hell?
I'll never find out.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #383 on: October 21, 2011, 09:52:09 PM »
"The approaching resumption of communion"...? You know something we don't, elijahmaria? :laugh:
LOL. No, just trying to convince herself, as usual.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline stanley123

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #384 on: October 21, 2011, 09:52:59 PM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.
if an Orthodox said a prayer with a Catholic, would he go to hell for that? Or would he be able to be purified in Purgatory with other Catholics and then get to go to heaven?
since purgatory doesn't exist, no.
Well then if you said a prayer, say the Our Father, with a Catholic and did not have a chance to repent, would you go to heaven or hell?
I'll never find out.
So the Orthodox Church has no teaching on whether or not it is a serious issue to violate a canon of the Orthodox Church ?

Offline ialmisry

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #385 on: October 21, 2011, 10:37:22 PM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.
if an Orthodox said a prayer with a Catholic, would he go to hell for that? Or would he be able to be purified in Purgatory with other Catholics and then get to go to heaven?
since purgatory doesn't exist, no.
Well then if you said a prayer, say the Our Father, with a Catholic and did not have a chance to repent, would you go to heaven or hell?
I'll never find out.
So the Orthodox Church has no teaching on whether or not it is a serious issue to violate a canon of the Orthodox Church ?
It teaches not to fantasize about breaking the canons.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline stanley123

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #386 on: October 22, 2011, 12:09:49 AM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.
if an Orthodox said a prayer with a Catholic, would he go to hell for that? Or would he be able to be purified in Purgatory with other Catholics and then get to go to heaven?
since purgatory doesn't exist, no.
Well then if you said a prayer, say the Our Father, with a Catholic and did not have a chance to repent, would you go to heaven or hell?
I'll never find out.
So the Orthodox Church has no teaching on whether or not it is a serious issue to violate a canon of the Orthodox Church ?
It teaches not to fantasize about breaking the canons.
If it is as you say, it would appear to be a fuzzy and wishy washy teaching and not a clear cut rule. Do you think it is all right to have your eternal salvation depend on such a fuzzy rule that no one knows exactly how to interpret ?

Offline Wyatt

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #387 on: October 22, 2011, 01:56:45 AM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.
if an Orthodox said a prayer with a Catholic, would he go to hell for that? Or would he be able to be purified in Purgatory with other Catholics and then get to go to heaven?
since purgatory doesn't exist, no.
Well then if you said a prayer, say the Our Father, with a Catholic and did not have a chance to repent, would you go to heaven or hell?
I'll never find out.
So the Orthodox Church has no teaching on whether or not it is a serious issue to violate a canon of the Orthodox Church ?
What does the Eastern Orthodox Church have a universal teaching on?

Offline LBK

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #388 on: October 22, 2011, 05:51:55 AM »
Quote
What does the Eastern Orthodox Church have a universal teaching on?

Plenty. Most of it can be found in our hymnography and iconography.
No longer posting here. Anyone is welcome to PM me or email me at the address in my profile.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #389 on: October 22, 2011, 07:42:39 AM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.
if an Orthodox said a prayer with a Catholic, would he go to hell for that? Or would he be able to be purified in Purgatory with other Catholics and then get to go to heaven?
since purgatory doesn't exist, no.
Well then if you said a prayer, say the Our Father, with a Catholic and did not have a chance to repent, would you go to heaven or hell?
I'll never find out.
So the Orthodox Church has no teaching on whether or not it is a serious issue to violate a canon of the Orthodox Church ?
What does the Eastern Orthodox Church have a universal teaching on?
Lots, but only on real life.  We leave the speculation to you all.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #390 on: October 22, 2011, 07:44:57 AM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.
if an Orthodox said a prayer with a Catholic, would he go to hell for that? Or would he be able to be purified in Purgatory with other Catholics and then get to go to heaven?
since purgatory doesn't exist, no.
Well then if you said a prayer, say the Our Father, with a Catholic and did not have a chance to repent, would you go to heaven or hell?
I'll never find out.
So the Orthodox Church has no teaching on whether or not it is a serious issue to violate a canon of the Orthodox Church ?
It teaches not to fantasize about breaking the canons.
If it is as you say, it would appear to be a fuzzy and wishy washy teaching and not a clear cut rule. Do you think it is all right to have your eternal salvation depend on such a fuzzy rule that no one knows exactly how to interpret ?
we already have plenty of threads on Pastor Aeternus and "ex cathedra."
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #391 on: October 22, 2011, 04:22:48 PM »
Quote
What does the Eastern Orthodox Church have a universal teaching on?

Plenty. Most of it can be found in our hymnography and iconography.

I'll back you on this one LBK.

Let's not get too crazy here.


Offline elijahmaria

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #392 on: October 22, 2011, 05:54:45 PM »
Why all the hue and cry over how sad it is that this theoretical situation would be hard for some to accept? There's plenty to deal with in the real world that is much more sad than your "what ifs" that are not even within the realm of possibility. The Roman Church does not control the Holy Spirit. There is no "when it happens" separate from very real and immediate cooperation of the recalcitrant. You don't get to have communion just because you want it or you think it would be nice or whatever.

I am saddened to see the Latin church capitalize on every little statement from or meeting with an Orthodox representative so as to give the Roman faithful false hope of reunion. Real hope is so much better, but requires an understanding and spirit of repentance that is apparently beyond the Roman Catholic Church and its Pope, even with his magical infallibility powers.

 :D

I am taking my cue today, on the approaching resumption of communion, from a recent posting on the web-site of a very perspicacious Orthodox priest!!

 :D
who will remain nameless, in the anonymity of Oz. ;)

You should take lessons from Met. Hilarion of the Russian Patriarchate. 

As I said you're not going to make the transition as you are now.

Offline LBK

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #393 on: October 23, 2011, 04:57:36 AM »
Quote
What does the Eastern Orthodox Church have a universal teaching on?

Plenty. Most of it can be found in our hymnography and iconography.

I'll back you on this one LBK.

Wha-...??? Miracles will never cease.  ;) :laugh:
No longer posting here. Anyone is welcome to PM me or email me at the address in my profile.

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #394 on: October 23, 2011, 12:29:58 PM »
Quote
What does the Eastern Orthodox Church have a universal teaching on?

Plenty. Most of it can be found in our hymnography and iconography.

I'll back you on this one LBK.

Wha-...??? Miracles will never cease.  ;) :laugh:

 :D...Well...I thought about what you said and IF I am going to insist that the seeds of the teaching concerning the immaculate Mother of God are contained in the texts from the feast of her Entry into the Temple, then I had BETTER agree with you... ;)

OTOH...I'd have to agree in any event.

 :angel:

Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #395 on: October 23, 2011, 07:47:50 PM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.
if an Orthodox said a prayer with a Catholic, would he go to hell for that? Or would he be able to be purified in Purgatory with other Catholics and then get to go to heaven?
since purgatory doesn't exist, no.
Well then if you said a prayer, say the Our Father, with a Catholic and did not have a chance to repent, would you go to heaven or hell?
I'll never find out.
So the Orthodox Church has no teaching on whether or not it is a serious issue to violate a canon of the Orthodox Church ?
What does the Eastern Orthodox Church have a universal teaching on?

conciliarity.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #396 on: October 24, 2011, 09:21:31 AM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.
if an Orthodox said a prayer with a Catholic, would he go to hell for that? Or would he be able to be purified in Purgatory with other Catholics and then get to go to heaven?
since purgatory doesn't exist, no.
Well then if you said a prayer, say the Our Father, with a Catholic and did not have a chance to repent, would you go to heaven or hell?
I'll never find out.
So the Orthodox Church has no teaching on whether or not it is a serious issue to violate a canon of the Orthodox Church ?
What does the Eastern Orthodox Church have a universal teaching on?
Lots, but only on real life.  We leave the speculation to you all.
btw, Wyatt I was in your neck of the woods in Peoria yesterday.  Hello.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Rufus

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #397 on: October 24, 2011, 02:40:06 PM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.
if an Orthodox said a prayer with a Catholic, would he go to hell for that? Or would he be able to be purified in Purgatory with other Catholics and then get to go to heaven?
since purgatory doesn't exist, no.
Well then if you said a prayer, say the Our Father, with a Catholic and did not have a chance to repent, would you go to heaven or hell?
I'll never find out.
So the Orthodox Church has no teaching on whether or not it is a serious issue to violate a canon of the Orthodox Church ?
What does the Eastern Orthodox Church have a universal teaching on?
Lots, but only on real life.  We leave the speculation to you all.
btw, Wyatt I was in your neck of the woods in Peoria yesterday.  Hello.
You could've had an ecumenical dialogue together.

Offline J Michael

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #398 on: October 24, 2011, 02:44:43 PM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.
if an Orthodox said a prayer with a Catholic, would he go to hell for that? Or would he be able to be purified in Purgatory with other Catholics and then get to go to heaven?
since purgatory doesn't exist, no.
Well then if you said a prayer, say the Our Father, with a Catholic and did not have a chance to repent, would you go to heaven or hell?
I'll never find out.
So the Orthodox Church has no teaching on whether or not it is a serious issue to violate a canon of the Orthodox Church ?
What does the Eastern Orthodox Church have a universal teaching on?
Lots, but only on real life.  We leave the speculation to you all.
btw, Wyatt I was in your neck of the woods in Peoria yesterday.  Hello.
You could've had an ecumenical dialogue together.

Or tea.  That probably would have been safer  ;D
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Offline elijahmaria

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #399 on: October 24, 2011, 03:30:25 PM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.
if an Orthodox said a prayer with a Catholic, would he go to hell for that? Or would he be able to be purified in Purgatory with other Catholics and then get to go to heaven?
since purgatory doesn't exist, no.
Well then if you said a prayer, say the Our Father, with a Catholic and did not have a chance to repent, would you go to heaven or hell?
I'll never find out.
So the Orthodox Church has no teaching on whether or not it is a serious issue to violate a canon of the Orthodox Church ?
What does the Eastern Orthodox Church have a universal teaching on?
Lots, but only on real life.  We leave the speculation to you all.
btw, Wyatt I was in your neck of the woods in Peoria yesterday.  Hello.
You could've had an ecumenical dialogue together.

Or tea.  That probably would have been safer  ;D

DO NOT DO THAT  when I am drinking something!!!   >:( >:( >:(

 :laugh:

Offline ialmisry

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #400 on: October 24, 2011, 03:44:26 PM »
Yes, it is forbidden, in the Orthodox Church, to pray together with those of a different faith. The Moscow Patriarchate, by far the largest and most predominant Orthodox Church in the world, has clarified this recently and it is on the conscience of every Orthodox Christian whether Russian Orthodox or not.

But attending some event at a non-Orthodox church is not the same as the sin of praying with the non-Orthodox. I'm sure the fellow who attended his family member's chrismation did not actually say the prayers together with the Roman-Catholic people, or sing along on anything. If so, it was a sin. But doubtless he was simply showing respect for his family, not (God forbid!) seeking some kind of spiritual nourishment from the heretical church.

One can show love, without sacrificing the truth of Christ. Due to heresies having entered in, we cannot all participate in Sacraments together, but we can participate, without asking any blessing or waiting on anyone else, jump in and participate in the Sacrament of Love for one another.

Just because someone does something wrong, or picks up a wrong belief, is not a reason to cease loving him.
if an Orthodox said a prayer with a Catholic, would he go to hell for that? Or would he be able to be purified in Purgatory with other Catholics and then get to go to heaven?
since purgatory doesn't exist, no.
Well then if you said a prayer, say the Our Father, with a Catholic and did not have a chance to repent, would you go to heaven or hell?
I'll never find out.
So the Orthodox Church has no teaching on whether or not it is a serious issue to violate a canon of the Orthodox Church ?
What does the Eastern Orthodox Church have a universal teaching on?
Lots, but only on real life.  We leave the speculation to you all.
btw, Wyatt I was in your neck of the woods in Peoria yesterday.  Hello.
You could've had an ecumenical dialogue together.

Or tea.  That probably would have been safer  ;D

DO NOT DO THAT  when I am drinking something!!!   >:( >:( >:(

 :laugh:
Something stronger?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Fr.Aidan

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #401 on: October 24, 2011, 04:09:44 PM »
You were going through Peoria? Did you get to attendance any Western Rite services at St. John Maximovitch Church there?

Offline ialmisry

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #402 on: October 24, 2011, 05:31:13 PM »
You were going through Peoria? Did you get to attendance any Western Rite services at St. John Maximovitch Church there?
I was not aware that there was any WRO parish/mission in all of Illinois.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #403 on: October 24, 2011, 05:47:48 PM »
Quote from: ialmisry link=topic=39189.msg658989#msg658989 date=1319485466

Or tea.  That probably would have been safer  ;D. 
[/quote

DO NOT DO THAT  when I am drinking something!!!   >:( >:( >:(

 :laugh:
Something stronger?
[/quote]

  8)...just tea...shooting out of my nose.

Offline Fr.Aidan

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Re: The Sacred Heart as I know it.
« Reply #404 on: October 24, 2011, 07:13:45 PM »
The most complete online directory of canonical Western Rite parishes and monasteries is here:

http://www.allmercifulsavior.com/Liturgy/Groups.html

The pastor there is a noted Orthodox author and has served in Orthodox churches for several decades.