Sure, but while we are at it:
This thread started here: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,38983.msg628951.html#msg628951 - PtA
...However, the issue with me is if I think the church is either invalid, or if many practices and teachings have hi-jacked parts of the church.
My issue is the latter. I believe at its core the Eastern Orthodox theology 'is' correct, but has been very hijacked. Sometimes hijacked into the point of direct blasphemy of God. My questions have never been answered, merely often addressed in a rude manner.
1) Is an icon - An image in the likeness of anything in heaven or on Earth? We were commanded NOT to make an image in the likeness of anything in heaven or on Earth. People also bow down to them (or the likeness in representation) which we were commanded not to do. I believe this is a hijack.
2) Do you call your Bishop "master"? Do you bow, touch the floor and say "Master Bless!". If you do, you are calling a MAN master, which Yeshua commanded us not to. I believe this to be a hijack.Actually the Greek does not mention the word man, and in the case of master, it is not directed against the one saying it, but against the one receiving it. We call bishops despota, something not mentioned in Matt. 23
3) bizarre practices, structure, superstitions - iconostasis, antimension, blessings of many objects, table of oblation, bow cross yourself bow cross yourself bow cross yourself.They are bizarre to you. So what? Are you that big on yourself? Sounds to me like a completely subjective judgment. Good luck with that.
4) Vain repetition in prayer - "Jesus prayer" x33 for a small prayer rope, x100 if you are studly (I guess God doesn't hear?)
You would be very uncomfortable in heaven with the angels unceasingly proclaiming holy holy holy... (Isaiah and Revelation). There is a difference between vain repetition "to be seen by men for your many words" and truly praising God from the heart.
So anyway, these things are ALL bizarre, and were NOT practiced by the early Christians.
You are not well versed in early Christian liturgics, apparently. But again, even if just taking the bible, you have much of this as liturgical practice...the primary purpose of the book of revelation. The modern Church should not have to deal with such mumbo jumbo to the contrary ( @op )
I don't know if I can respond to you without getting in trouble.
All I can tell you is that you go here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t__46_yVnhs and go to :30 seconds and listen. You don't hear "despota". This video was with many clergy present, at the OCA - St. Seraphims in Dallas, TX @ Bishop Dmitri's funeral great bishop entrance. LOTS of clergy, lots of priests & bishops present. It's not my video, and I have not given my opinion on the matter.
Now, if you would like to discuss the issues, please PM me.
What are you talking about? Jesus did not speak English. The Apostles did not write in English. Some English translators have decided to translate in Matt. 23 as "master." Other translations have been more careful, as the word there is not master. CASE CLOSED.
Guess you are CASE CLOSED against:
King James Version
American Standard Version
21st Century King James Version
New Century Version
Dictionaries with translation in the Greek (it says Master)http://www.thefreedictionary.com/despothttp://dictionary.reference.com/browse/despot
(Scroll to the origin in Greek)
After definitions, in light print, origin in Greek
Sorry, I don't agree with you and believe King James got it right. Despota = Master all in the same. If you speak Greek, you should not be calling your bishop Despota.
Other English biblical translations it equates to "revered FATHER" or "teacher/instructor". Well "FATHER" and "TEACHER (Rabbi)"... Covered in the same passages anyway. "Do not call any man Rabbi..., Father..., or Master"
Not against you brother. Not against the EO church entirely either. In fact I love Orthodoxy, but there are elements of it which come to alarm me, this being one of them. I did intend on this thread to die. It was brought back after 6 months of dormancy.