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Author Topic: Just another random newbie post...  (Read 2865 times) Average Rating: 0
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Timon
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« Reply #45 on: September 04, 2011, 04:16:49 PM »

it seems like if your parents would do even a MINIMAL amount of research, a lot of their concerns would go away. a lot of protestants certainly squirm a little when they hear "Roman Catholic" but Orthodoxy is different!!!

I still think its sad when people turn their nose up at the RC church too.  Its kinda funny when protestants try to decide whats right and whats wrong when they clearly havent done any research... but i guess theyve always done that!
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Even if we have thousands of acts of great virtue to our credit, our confidence in being heard must be based on God's mercy and His love for men. Even if we stand at the very summit of virtue, it is by mercy that we shall be saved.

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« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2011, 04:23:28 PM »

you are on the right track.
nehemiah felt down too, but still built the wall  Smiley
your parents can't 'forbid' you, you are not under 18, so what you do in your own time is not something they can forbid.
we can see you respect them and go to church with them; this is enough.

i find nothing in the Bible that says 'you don't have to practise your faith when your family forbid you.'
indeed, Jesus said 'a man's enemies shall be in his own house'.
so you are allowed to 'disobey' them to go to church.
in order not to start an argument, you can go to church (like maybe a saturday meeting) without saying exactly what you are doing. don't lie, but no-one forces you to tell them everything either.
start building boundaries to limit their influence so you can have a bit of space to breathe.
may God have mercy on you, and please pray for me too, a sinner.

timon, may God guide u too, i hope and pray you are finding the answers you need.  Smiley
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brandb
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« Reply #47 on: September 04, 2011, 04:54:00 PM »

it seems like if your parents would do even a MINIMAL amount of research, a lot of their concerns would go away. a lot of protestants certainly squirm a little when they hear "Roman Catholic" but Orthodoxy is different!!!

I still think its sad when people turn their nose up at the RC church too.  Its kinda funny when protestants try to decide whats right and whats wrong when they clearly havent done any research... but i guess theyve always done that!

My thoughts exactly. My parents refuse to do research, and what little research my mom has done she refuses to show me so I can look at it and go over it with her! Tongue

you are on the right track.
nehemiah felt down too, but still built the wall  Smiley
your parents can't 'forbid' you, you are not under 18, so what you do in your own time is not something they can forbid.
we can see you respect them and go to church with them; this is enough.

i find nothing in the Bible that says 'you don't have to practise your faith when your family forbid you.'
indeed, Jesus said 'a man's enemies shall be in his own house'.
so you are allowed to 'disobey' them to go to church.
in order not to start an argument, you can go to church (like maybe a saturday meeting) without saying exactly what you are doing. don't lie, but no-one forces you to tell them everything either.
start building boundaries to limit their influence so you can have a bit of space to breathe.
may God have mercy on you, and please pray for me too, a sinner.

It would be very weird if I asked to take the car to randomly go somewhere...  Shocked But I get what you're saying. Wink It's hard for me to set up boundaries b/c my parents (especially my dad) can be very intimidating and manipulative. That being said, while I won't risk chaos to attend a parish, I will most certainly continue to pray & fast and seek more knowledge about the faith during this trial. Thank you for you prayers. Smiley
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mabsoota
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« Reply #48 on: September 04, 2011, 04:57:08 PM »

i was saying, get some money and go without the car.
or walk long distances, if you have a functioning body.
many Christians in less developed countries walk for hours to get to church.
i have also seen photos of people in the arctic circle being baptized through holes in the ice,
but check with your physician before trying this one!
 Wink
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Dyhn
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« Reply #49 on: September 04, 2011, 05:01:25 PM »

Hello and welcome - I'm fairly new myself. Hope you find some interesting reading as do I.

~ Dyhn
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« Reply #50 on: September 04, 2011, 05:25:42 PM »

i was saying, get some money and go without the car.
or walk long distances, if you have a functioning body.
many Christians in less developed countries walk for hours to get to church.
i have also seen photos of people in the arctic circle being baptized through holes in the ice,
but check with your physician before trying this one!
 Wink

Oh yeah, I missed that then. And the baptism thing- Lord knows I would be so happy to get (re)baptized,
but that's crazy! Rofl. Cheesy

Hello and welcome - I'm fairly new myself. Hope you find some interesting reading as do I.

~ Dyhn

Hi! Yep, that's what I usually do. Scroll through search and read various posts. I'm hesitant to start new topics because of all
"you need to check the search engine before you post" comments. Wink
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brandb
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« Reply #51 on: September 04, 2011, 11:43:18 PM »

Actually, I have a question. What should I do when I attend my parents' church during worship?  Huh
I don't feel right doing a lot of the theatrics but if I don't then my parents (they're on the worship team Tongue)
will critique every aspect of what I do and tell me I "wasn't worshiping sincerely enough". Idk what to do.
If there is a relevant thread please post the link (I found nothing in the search engine).
All of the other threads are about people who are already Orthodox worshiping with their Heterodox families...
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« Reply #52 on: September 05, 2011, 12:39:14 AM »

I don't feel right doing a lot of the theatrics but if I don't then my parents (they're on the worship team Tongue)
will critique every aspect of what I do and tell me I "wasn't worshiping sincerely enough".
Good lord.

Uh...

What happens to you if your parents don't think you're worshipping sincerely enough?
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« Reply #53 on: September 05, 2011, 12:47:40 AM »

Good lord.

Uh...

What happens to you if your parents don't think you're worshipping sincerely enough?

(It's a killer, isn't it?) They try to start arguments and they tell me I'm not a good Christian... just
a long list of intimidation/manipulation tactics, I could go on forever. If I wasn't financially dependent
on them, none of this would be an issue- I would've already been out and living on my own. The thought
of picking and leaving now is way too scary. Tongue
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Tgebar
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« Reply #54 on: September 05, 2011, 01:57:42 AM »

In what manner are you financially dependent upon your parents?

*EDIT* Ooph, it appears that I am very unobservant. How long do you have to wait before you're hired?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 01:59:06 AM by Tgebar » Logged

Smiley
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« Reply #55 on: September 05, 2011, 02:10:07 AM »

In what manner are you financially dependent upon your parents?

*EDIT* Ooph, it appears that I am very unobservant. How long do you have to wait before you're hired?

They pay my credit card bill (which they used, hence why they pay it) & my phone bill. Without them I don't
have food/shelter/transportation.
I've no idea how long it'll take my paperwork to be processed, but I'm betting on early-mid October.
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« Reply #56 on: September 05, 2011, 02:46:52 AM »

ok, pass the credit card into their name and get a new card for yourself.
a debit card is a good idea coz u can only take out what is in your account.
start cutting the apron strings and, step by step, become independant.

the idea of teenage life, is that you say 'yeah, whatever' when they get too manipulative.
u seem to have not completed this phase yet, it is important that you do.
i mean, seriously, if they tell a (nearly) 23 year old 'how to worship sincerely' that is way too personal.

i know it can be hard, i got married at 22 and my folks tried to get me to tell them every little detail about my personal life. they acted like i was still 15. i did not resist enough and it took years to scrape back the privacy i needed. seriously, start now, and you will be glad you did it later. i still love my folks and i talk to them often and we share jokes and even discuss theology occasionally (this is uncomfortable, but i love them enough to want to gently tell them what i have found).
they will tell u you don't love them and all that, but, keep in touch, don't talk about your taboo subjects (you have to have some!) and be a great house-mate (be tidy, do housework, be polite to guests, but don't feel you have to spend your whole evening with their guests), change from 'child' into 'nice flat-mate'.
u say u don't like the idea of moving out.
if life is too cosy for u, with u not doing yr share of the cooking, cleaning etc and lapping up their financial support, then it WILL be hard. but you have to change, i mean even if you believed in the same sort of Christianity as them, you would still have to build some personal barriers between you.

until u start to 'move out' in your emotions, u can never move out in real life.
please start this now.
as for 'worshipping sincerely', ask them where in the Bible it says you have to wave your hands and fall over to be a sincere worshiper. the original use of raising the hands is in prayer (not while singing) so there is no compulsion to do that, and the usual time to fall over is when confronted face to face with a heavenly being. so sitting or standing peacefully and in awe of God is perfectly ok. and if they say not, remember the 'yeah, whatever'!
 Wink
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« Reply #57 on: September 05, 2011, 03:12:34 AM »



Um, I love the idea of moving out; I hate the idea of being 'kicked out' and forced to live in poverty. I do share in the cooking and cleaning and all that jazz. Actually, I do MOST of the house chores regularly. I have a debit card, as well as a 2nd credit card which I paid off myself. I want my parents to own up and pay off my other card since they used it. How else will they learn that my finances are not at their disposal? I lived on my own in college until I graduated and returned home. I am perfectly capable of taking care of myself, as long as I am employed. Once I have saved enough funds I will leave my parents' home. I plan to do so within 1-2 years. I always stick to my plans whenever possible.

I'm not a slacker/moocher. That is NOT is the case.

It is true that I am in a stage of life that should have been completed much earlier, but I am fully aware of this and I have fought my parents tooth and nail for the few freedoms/boundaries I now have. My parents are extremely controlling and this a very difficult situation from which I am unable escape without drastic consequences (or at least my fear of drastic consequences- I'm in no position to see my fears validated).

Except I'm tired of fighting them, and I don't see the point of using worship as a way to start contention which would/might lead to my eventual impoverishment. I just wanted to know if I should blend in and do things their way for right now & if I should wait until I find an Orthodox church to start worshiping the right way.  Then again, I may have answered my own question.

Thanks for the advice. Wink
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 03:13:12 AM by brandb » Logged
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« Reply #58 on: September 05, 2011, 04:37:01 AM »

Perhaps you can make your plans much more immediate. You can consider cheap housing and move up from there as you become established in your new career. If things with your planned career are going slowly then maybe you can find work at some lesser job until the ball is rolling. You can even start working while at your parents until you have enough money for the down payment, first months rent, deposits for bills, some food to start out, and then some at a small apartment. Maybe your parents will even help you out, thinking that you're just trying to establish your own life. After this you can tell them that you're making your own decisions.
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« Reply #59 on: September 05, 2011, 04:37:40 AM »

Personally, I don't think there is any need for you to extract yourself from your family situation and face poverty. To the best of my knowledge, the Orthodox Church doesn't preach extraction evangelism; cutting yourself off from your past and your family situation, possibly to your detriment; although if you choose to do so, that is of course, your prerogative.

For a moment, think about Naaman's situation. After his conversion to the True God, he was going back to pagan Aram. Before he did, he expressed concern to Elisha that he would be in the temple of Rimmon and that when the king of Aram, Naaman's master, bowed to Rimmon he was going to be holding Naaman’s arm, causing him to bow down before Rimmon too. Elisha knew that worship isn't necessarily about where you are, but in Naaman's case, for the forseeable future it was going to be a matter of the heart. Your parents aren't pagans, they are Christians, albeit Christians you are very likely going to disagree with. So your situation isn't quite so dire. Still, I think that you can take Elisha's advice to Naaham and “go in peace” even though you find yourself in a place and with a style of worship that you are no longer comfortable.
  
Be patient with your situation. The time will come that you will have autonomy and can turn your back on your parents' ways, if that is what you choose to do.

God be with you in this difficult time.
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« Reply #60 on: September 05, 2011, 05:06:55 AM »

Personally, I don't think there is any need for you to extract yourself from your family situation and face poverty. To the best of my knowledge, the Orthodox Church doesn't preach extraction evangelism; cutting yourself off from your past and your family situation, possibly to your detriment; although if you choose to do so, that is of course, your prerogative.

For a moment, think about Naaman's situation. After his conversion to the True God, he was going back to pagan Aram. Before he did, he expressed concern to Elisha that he would be in the temple of Rimmon and that when the king of Aram, Naaman's master, bowed to Rimmon he was going to be holding Naaman’s arm, causing him to bow down before Rimmon too. Elisha knew that worship isn't necessarily about where you are, but in Naaman's case, for the forseeable future it was going to be a matter of the heart. Your parents aren't pagans, they are Christians, albeit Christians you are very likely going to disagree with. So your situation isn't quite so dire. Still, I think that you can take Elisha's advice to Naaham and “go in peace” even though you find yourself in a place and with a style of worship that you are no longer comfortable.
  
Be patient with your situation. The time will come that you will have autonomy and can turn your back on your parents' ways, if that is what you choose to do.

God be with you in this difficult time.

^This. Thank you so much for this. I've never paid much attention to what Naaman said/did after his healing (Protestants usually focus on the healing & Gehazi's part of the story). But that helps me see things in a different way. That's all I really wanted- a way to find a measure of peace in this situation.
Thanks again.  Smiley

P.S. I'm currently studying Esther and how she made decisions in the environment she lived in. Wink

And "Thank You" everyone who's responded! I truly appreciate it.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 05:07:59 AM by brandb » Logged
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« Reply #61 on: September 05, 2011, 05:27:01 AM »

You are very welcome. Smiley
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« Reply #62 on: September 05, 2011, 06:02:13 AM »

ok, sorry, i can see i misunderstood yr situation.
u r working hard on doing all the right things, but your folks are fighting back hard.
may God give u peace.
still i think that naaman's situation is/ should be unusual, and while i am not suggesting sitting in church looking grumpy, maybe God will help u to find some middle way so u are not the most active in 'worship' but not the grumpy guy either.

keep us informed, we care for u
 Smiley
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« Reply #63 on: September 05, 2011, 06:52:56 AM »

It's okay, thanks for understanding. ♥
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« Reply #64 on: September 05, 2011, 12:52:20 PM »

Actually, I have a question. What should I do when I attend my parents' church during worship?  Huh
I don't feel right doing a lot of the theatrics but if I don't then my parents (they're on the worship team Tongue)
will critique every aspect of what I do and tell me I "wasn't worshiping sincerely enough". Idk what to do.
If there is a relevant thread please post the link (I found nothing in the search engine).
All of the other threads are about people who are already Orthodox worshiping with their Heterodox families...

This is just sad.  I'm sorry Brandi.  I know you're in the tough spot.  But, how you worship is really none of their business.  IF they give you a hard time, tell them you were meditating on the Lord (which you probably were doing).  Remind them that God looks at the heart and not the outward experience.  Sheesh.

As to your other question about where to post these questions.  Just start a new post in convert issues. 

I understand totally about theatrics.  I used to hate that.   I used to be on worship team and  remember some people being very judgmental about outward appearances.  Sigh.

The hardest thing to do is to not judge them.  Pray during worship.  Especially pray the Jesus Prayer. 
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« Reply #65 on: September 05, 2011, 03:50:40 PM »

I understand totally about theatrics.  I used to hate that.   I used to be on worship team and  remember some people being very judgmental about outward appearances.  Sigh.

The hardest thing to do is to not judge them.  Pray during worship.  Especially pray the Jesus Prayer. 

That really is the hardest thing not to do. I'm finding that showing them what Orthodoxy looks like through how I live
means not arguing with them about it. 'Tis a most difficult step.
I'm working on establishing a *very small* prayer rule involving the Jesus Prayer. Nothing too serious (as I have no spiritual parent).
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« Reply #66 on: September 05, 2011, 04:05:23 PM »


I'm working on establishing a *very small* prayer rule involving the Jesus Prayer. Nothing too serious (as I have no spiritual parent).
If your parents don't stalk your emails, you could email a priest.
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« Reply #67 on: September 05, 2011, 05:16:30 PM »


I'm working on establishing a *very small* prayer rule involving the Jesus Prayer. Nothing too serious (as I have no spiritual parent).
If your parents don't stalk your emails, you could email a priest.

Lawl  laugh (But no seriously, they leave my computer alone.) I've thought about that, but I'm not making any major moves yet.
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« Reply #68 on: September 06, 2011, 03:24:37 AM »

ok, sorry, i can see i misunderstood yr situation.
u r working hard on doing all the right things, but your folks are fighting back hard.
may God give u peace.
still i think that naaman's situation is/ should be unusual, and while i am not suggesting sitting in church looking grumpy, maybe God will help u to find some middle way so u are not the most active in 'worship' but not the grumpy guy either.

keep us informed, we care for u
 Smiley

I imagine that Naaman's situation was replicated thousands-fold throughout the Roman Empire when the Christian slaves and wives of any non-believing Pater Familias made daily sacrifices to the household gods.
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« Reply #69 on: September 06, 2011, 05:08:36 AM »

good point, but there were other Christians who saw people being taken off and killed and rushed to join them so they, too would receive the spiritual blessings.
example here: http://www.copticchurch.net/synaxarium/12_26.html
i think that there is no 'rule' on how to behave, and i have heard many contemporary stories of people who remained secret Christians for a few years (in adverse circumstances) until the right time to declare their faith.
so we should not take this as some kind of 'easy option', but as long as someone's intention is pure, God will understand.
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« Reply #70 on: September 21, 2011, 12:33:17 AM »

Update!

I'm hired (as a substitute teacher)! So that's step one... Wink
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« Reply #71 on: September 21, 2011, 12:37:06 AM »

Update!

I'm hired (as a substitute teacher)! So that's step one... Wink
Congrats!
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« Reply #72 on: September 21, 2011, 12:59:30 AM »

Update!

I'm hired (as a substitute teacher)! So that's step one... Wink

Good news, and good luck Smiley
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« Reply #73 on: September 21, 2011, 01:08:48 AM »

Thanks.  Smiley 

I'm also thinking of hightailing it to Boston once I'm able to move, but we shall see.
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« Reply #74 on: September 21, 2011, 02:36:20 AM »

All the best! Smiley
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« Reply #75 on: September 21, 2011, 02:53:14 AM »

I'm glad to hear you got hired!
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« Reply #76 on: September 21, 2011, 03:08:48 AM »

Thanks.  Smiley 

I'm also thinking of hightailing it to Boston once I'm able to move, but we shall see.
That'll put you in the vicinity of a lot of churches.  Wink
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if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

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« Reply #77 on: September 21, 2011, 03:14:01 AM »

Thanks.  Smiley 

I'm also thinking of hightailing it to Boston once I'm able to move, but we shall see.
That'll put you in the vicinity of a lot of churches.  Wink

Oh yesss, I'm very aware.  Cool
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« Reply #78 on: September 21, 2011, 06:49:57 AM »

great news!  I hope something turns into a long-term position.
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