Catechumen: when do you expect to be received into the Church?

[jah777]

Since there are seemingly a lot of catechumens here, I thought it would be interesting to have a poll to see when some of you expect to be received into the Church.  Obviously, after at least each of the first four options should read "God willing", but I am interested in how things look for you at this moment in time, realizing things may change.  Some of you have announced that you just recently became catechumens, others have been catechumens for a while now and we can begin to anticipate with joy their upcoming baptisms and/or chrismations, others have seemingly been catechumens forever, and some seem to identify themselves as such when they don't necessarily feel committed to the process yet and have perhaps spent years, off and on, "testing the water".  Where do you think you stand right now, dear catechumens?

[zekarja]

It took me 3 1/2 months after my first visit to join the Church.

Irini pasi,
zekarja

[JamesRottnek]

When the time is right.

[orthonorm]

lulz. I can't give an honest answer to this one.

[IsmiLiora]

Who are we to judge? Priest believes that our hearts in the right place and I could have been chrismated yesterday. But there are still some practical considerations. Probably sometime in the next six months.

[jah777]

Who are we to judge?

I suppose I am thinking here of those whose priests have indicated an approximate duration for their catechumenate, or whose priests have set a date already for their baptism/chrismation.  If a person's priest has simply said, "we'll see", or "we'll talk in a few months", then I wouldn't expect such a person to guess. 

[Andrew Crook]

My first visit to the local Greek Church was on January 23,  I chose my nouna on the Sunday of the Prodigal Son.. and I was chrismated on the Sunday of St. Mary of Egypt -- April 10th.  As interesting coincidence, the first time I ever stepped foot in an Orthodox church was on the Sunday of St. Mary of Egypt last year in 2010.

[bogdan]

I became a catechumen after 8 or 9 months of attendance, and was received 9 months later.

[Russell]

I showed after easter and 3 months later I became a catechumen, 3 months later I was received. 

I had expected the process to be year or two.

[Gypsy]

I attended my first service last December, it was Vespers and I fell in love.
The next two months I kept attending Vespers and the occasional Liturgy, while going to my Roman Catholc church on Sundays.
In February at the beginning of Lent I went to confession (Roman Catholic) where I had what was for me a very unsatisfactory discussion with my Priest about EO.
By April I was a Catchecumen
As I have posted...I will be chrismated this coming weekend.

I am very sure I am doing the right thing and following Truth.  I can't wait to partake of the Eucharist Sunday.

I found during my inquiry time that there were some things I expected that perhaps do not work well according to my western expectations...for example I expected the Orthodox to spend time proselytizing or encouraging me to join them.  What I learned was that they wanted me to come to the decision on my own...to seek and want the truth.  This was not discussed openly, but many times I would have to ask 'will there be a service?'. What time?'  The more I attended, the more nuggets of wisdom were provided.  I am not even sure the Monks were aware of this....as I say...I was attending from a different framework.  Not sure if this is making sense to any of you!

Anyway...I would definitely say to get off the fence to any out there lingering around!  I feel quite confident that once I receive the fullness of the faith in Chrismation...that my spiritual life will increase accordingly.
Why wait?  What can be so very important that it is stopping you from making a decision and asking?  Must admit I did expect it might take longer...

In one book I read...it might have been a service book, I can't remember...it said to move with all speed unless the Catchecumenate lapse into heresy...!  Sorry I can't give the reference.

Blessings to all who are undecided

[biro]

When I first spoke to the priest, he said it would be something like six to eight months. Next month, it'll be a year and a half since I started going to this parish.  It hasn't been easy of late.

[Gypsy]

You know Biro...I just re-read my post and I want to humbly apologize to everyone reading - it  sounds horribly patronizing!

I am sure each of us has different struggles and  challenges impacting our status as Catchecumens, not always easy to figure out the right timing...

Sorry...

[IsmiLiora]

Don't worry, Biro. I was supposed to be chrismated before Pascha...then this summer...now the end of the year. Because of some issues beyond my control, it might end up being as late as next fall, which I am admittedly steamed about.

I do feel very frustrated with that too, so I understand to some extent. I hope you find peace and that we will all rejoice when you will join the Church.

[biro]

Thank you, Gypsy and Ismi.     I need to pray more, and find time for good reading on the faith. Maybe (not to toot my own horn) it's like St. Paul- sometimes you fall off the horse.  He still made it to Damascus, though.

[mabsoota]

yeah biro, keep up the good work and remember God is with you even now, He is not waiting till you receive Holy Communion to bless you.
also yr posts are cool
 
may He guide you and give you His peace.

[biro]

Thank you. 

[celticfan1888]

I know of one perticular poster who, if he finds out who has not yet been chrismated, will not consider them Orthodox!

He knows who I'm speaking of. 

[orthonorm]

I know of one perticular poster who, if he finds out who has not yet been chrismated, will not consider them Orthodox!

He knows who I'm speaking of. 

I think that he would be the Orthodox Church, but usually referred to in the feminine. If I can understand your "sentence".

[celticfan1888]

I think that he would be the Orthodox Church, but usually referred to in the feminine. If I can understand your "sentence".

If you have fully Orthodox beliefs, then you're Orthodox. Case Closed.

Orthonorm, you really know how to push my buttons. 

[William]

Two years or more! I need to turn 18 first.

[Achronos]

I think I'm ready now, just needed time to develop. My priest wanted me baptized at Pentecost but I wasn't close to being ready.

[jah777]

I think that he would be the Orthodox Church, but usually referred to in the feminine. If I can understand your "sentence".

If you have fully Orthodox beliefs, then you're Orthodox. Case Closed.

Orthonorm, you really know how to push my buttons. 

I'm afraid Orthonorm is correct on this one.  Why would this assertion "push your buttons"?  Properly speaking, one cannot be considered either "Orthodox" or "Christian" until they are united with the Orthodox Church through baptism.  On this I would like to recommend the paper "Christianity or the Church" by the New Martyr St. Hilarion (Troitsky):

http://www.holytrinity.oh.goarch.org/assets/files/Documents/CHRISTIANITY%20OR%20THE%20CHURCH.pdf

To be Orthodox is not simply to agree with the Orthodox, or to have Orthodox beliefs, but to live an Orthodox life, giving right glory to God.  The right glorification of God (Orthodoxia) implies full participation in the glorifying (deifying) Mysteries.  “Orthodox beliefs” would compel a person to join the Orthodox Church, but as long as person is a catechumen, he has not yet been united to the Church.  Similarly, if a man and woman get together once or twice a week and eventually start talking of marriage, it would be improper to refer to them as “married” prior to the actual marriage.  While living separately, not embracing the full demands and responsibilities associated with marriage, and having not participated in the mystery of holy matrimony in the Church, it would be dishonest for such a couple to claim to be married even if they had every intention of getting married in the near future.    Likewise, a catechumen may be “courting” the Church, but without consummating this courtship through holy baptism, without taking upon himself the responsibilities of Church life by participating in the other mysteries of Confession and Communion, it would be dishonest to claim to be Orthodox or a member of the Church, which is the same thing. 

[Gypsy]

I agree with you JAH.

I posted about this awful week for me in the Hurricane Prayer request thread...
It was all going to be worth it today when I was going to be Chrismated...

Sadly Father just called and they have decided it is best to cancel the services for this weekend.....
I am soooooooo disappointed...

So let's see... earthquake at my farm, chemo, hurricane at my Bay house, cancellation of Chrismation, and SO No Blessed Eucharist.....

Is this what you guys call the Purple Demons...or do you have to be Orthodox to really experience those?

......still a Gypsy...

[mabsoota]

Jesus said 'I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it'. (matthew 16)
also 'all creation waits in expectation for the sons of God to be revealed' (romans)

may God give you more peace and patience, He is able to bless even despite all the obstacles. you will be blessed even as you wait on the Lord.
may your strength be renewed.
 

[Melodist]

Is this what you guys call the Purple Demons...or do you have to be Orthodox to really experience those?

......still a Gypsy...

Anyone can experience those, though they tend to strike during periods of fasting. Purple demons are what tempt us to turn our hearts away from the spiritual aspects of fasting while following the letter of the rule (that is abstaining from meat while we devour our brother). What you have is a test of patience. It's not unusual for someone to face fears and temptations before being received into the Church as an adult. It's also not unusual for dates to be pushed back due to whatever circumstance calls for it.

[Ninjaly Awesome]

Me and my wife will probably be received during Holy Week this coming year. However, I'm thinking that we might tell our priest not yet because we haven't received a lot of instruction as catachumen. If that trend continues all the way into next year, then we'll definitely wait until later when we feel ready to be received into the church.

[Melodist]

Me and my wife will probably be received during Holy Week this coming year. However, I'm thinking that we might tell our priest not yet because we haven't received a lot of instruction as catachumen. If that trend continues all the way into next year, then we'll definitely wait until later when we feel ready to be received into the church.

How long have you been attending liturgy on a weekly basis? There is an enormous amount of instruction in the cycle of readings, feasts, and fasts throughout the year alone.

[biro]

Gypsy- don't worry, I am sure you will be able to set up another day in the near future. Stay safe. 

[Gypsy]

Thanks so much for the reassurances.  Its for the best...the storm is RAGING and i've been in bed most of the day from chemo, so it would have been a massive effort to drive all that way.

Thanks

[Ninjaly Awesome]

Me and my wife will probably be received during Holy Week this coming year. However, I'm thinking that we might tell our priest not yet because we haven't received a lot of instruction as catachumen. If that trend continues all the way into next year, then we'll definitely wait until later when we feel ready to be received into the church.

How long have you been attending liturgy on a weekly basis? There is an enormous amount of instruction in the cycle of readings, feasts, and fasts throughout the year alone.

Since March of this year.

[Alveus Lacuna]

Sometimes the longer the wait the better. It lets some of the glimmer wear-off. My priest generally has people wait a year or so after officially becoming catechumens, but I think this is because he has seen many jump in and jump out just as quickly.

Even after the year long wait, it still occasionally happens. I have also been surprised to watch many catechumens come for about six months and then just totally disappear, so I think there is a lot of wisdom to it. Because of my own personal situation, I was a catechumen for almost three years. In the end it was hard but really good for me.

I will be Orthodox for one year tomorrow, but with all of the years of inquiry and in the catechumenate I feel as thought I've been Orthodox for a long time. Still just a baby though.

[celticfan1888]

Jah, what you are preaching is called legalism. Orthodoxy isn't legalistic, so yeah.

[Agabus]

Me and my wife will probably be received during Holy Week this coming year. However, I'm thinking that we might tell our priest not yet because we haven't received a lot of instruction as catachumen. If that trend continues all the way into next year, then we'll definitely wait until later when we feel ready to be received into the church.

How long have you been attending liturgy on a weekly basis? There is an enormous amount of instruction in the cycle of readings, feasts, and fasts throughout the year alone.

I know this is a romantic notion, and there is some truth to it, but I think it is often overstated.

[celticfan1888]

I'm afraid Orthonorm is correct on this one.  Why would this assertion "push your buttons"?  Properly speaking, one cannot be considered either "Orthodox" or "Christian" until they are united with the Orthodox Church through baptism.  On this I would like to recommend the paper "Christianity or the Church" by the New Martyr St. Hilarion (Troitsky):

http://www.holytrinity.oh.goarch.org/assets/files/Documents/CHRISTIANITY%20OR%20THE%20CHURCH.pdf

To be Orthodox is not simply to agree with the Orthodox, or to have Orthodox beliefs, but to live an Orthodox life, giving right glory to God.  The right glorification of God (Orthodoxia) implies full participation in the glorifying (deifying) Mysteries.  “Orthodox beliefs” would compel a person to join the Orthodox Church, but as long as person is a catechumen, he has not yet been united to the Church.  Similarly, if a man and woman get together once or twice a week and eventually start talking of marriage, it would be improper to refer to them as “married” prior to the actual marriage.  While living separately, not embracing the full demands and responsibilities associated with marriage, and having not participated in the mystery of holy matrimony in the Church, it would be dishonest for such a couple to claim to be married even if they had every intention of getting married in the near future.    Likewise, a catechumen may be “courting” the Church, but without consummating this courtship through holy baptism, without taking upon himself the responsibilities of Church life by participating in the other mysteries of Confession and Communion, it would be dishonest to claim to be Orthodox or a member of the Church, which is the same thing.

A catechumen is, as my priest has told me, is a member of the Church, just not a "full" member. So in your world view someone who lives a fully Orthodox life and is a catechumen, dies before being chrismated he is the same as a non-believer? Um, no.

[orthonorm]

Me and my wife will probably be received during Holy Week this coming year. However, I'm thinking that we might tell our priest not yet because we haven't received a lot of instruction as catachumen. If that trend continues all the way into next year, then we'll definitely wait until later when we feel ready to be received into the church.

How long have you been attending liturgy on a weekly basis? There is an enormous amount of instruction in the cycle of readings, feasts, and fasts throughout the year alone.

I know this is a romantic notion, and there is some truth to it, but I think it is often overstated.

It IS true, especially is don't go out of your way to attend a parish which is non-English as a Native English Speaker.

But most people don't go to most services any how.

Going to the DL every week for year certainly ain't going to do much in terms of education.

[orthonorm]

I'm afraid Orthonorm is correct on this one.  Why would this assertion "push your buttons"?  Properly speaking, one cannot be considered either "Orthodox" or "Christian" until they are united with the Orthodox Church through baptism.  On this I would like to recommend the paper "Christianity or the Church" by the New Martyr St. Hilarion (Troitsky):

http://www.holytrinity.oh.goarch.org/assets/files/Documents/CHRISTIANITY%20OR%20THE%20CHURCH.pdf

To be Orthodox is not simply to agree with the Orthodox, or to have Orthodox beliefs, but to live an Orthodox life, giving right glory to God.  The right glorification of God (Orthodoxia) implies full participation in the glorifying (deifying) Mysteries.  “Orthodox beliefs” would compel a person to join the Orthodox Church, but as long as person is a catechumen, he has not yet been united to the Church.  Similarly, if a man and woman get together once or twice a week and eventually start talking of marriage, it would be improper to refer to them as “married” prior to the actual marriage.  While living separately, not embracing the full demands and responsibilities associated with marriage, and having not participated in the mystery of holy matrimony in the Church, it would be dishonest for such a couple to claim to be married even if they had every intention of getting married in the near future.    Likewise, a catechumen may be “courting” the Church, but without consummating this courtship through holy baptism, without taking upon himself the responsibilities of Church life by participating in the other mysteries of Confession and Communion, it would be dishonest to claim to be Orthodox or a member of the Church, which is the same thing.

A catechumen is, as my priest has told me, is a member of the Church, just not a "full" member. So in your world view someone who lives a fully Orthodox life and is a catechumen, dies before being chrismated he is the same as a non-believer? Um, no.

This is poor reasoning.

What is a "fully" Orthodox life?

And my Priest would never refer to a catechumen as being Orthodox. 

[Melodist]

[Since March of this year.

It is my opinion that going to church regularly and following the calendar from the pre-lent triodion through Ss Peter and Paul of the next year (about a year and a half) will give you most if not all of what you really need to know.

That's just my opinion. Within that specific time frame, you hear every reading, receive teaching on all the feasts, get to observe how the feasts and fasts flow from one to another (especially pre-lent through Ss Peter and Paul), and get into the practical aspects of being Orthodox (not so much the "what we believe" but the "how to do it").

Once again, just my personal opinion.

[orthonorm]

[Since March of this year.

It is my opinion that going to church regularly and following the calendar from the pre-lent triodion through Ss Peter and Paul of the next year (about a year and a half) will give you most if not all of what you really need to know.

That's just my opinion. Within that specific time frame, you hear every reading, receive teaching on all the feasts, get to observe how the feasts and fasts flow from one to another (especially pre-lent through Ss Peter and Paul), and get into the practical aspects of being Orthodox (not so much the "what we believe" but the "how to do it").

Once again, just my personal opinion.

Quit with the personal opinion thing. You are right.

[Melodist]

Quit with the personal opinion thing. You are right.

I was never taught this. It's just an observation I made.

[celticfan1888]

A catechumen is, as my priest has told me, is a member of the Church, just not a "full" member. So in your world view someone who lives a fully Orthodox life and is a catechumen, dies before being chrismated he is the same as a non-believer? Um, no.

This is poor reasoning.

What is a "fully" Orthodox life?

And my Priest would never refer to a catechumen as being Orthodox. 

If you have fully Orthodox beliefs, and follow all of the teachings of the Church. To say one's Orthodoxy relys' entirely on them being in "communion" is a tad absurd. Why would someone who professes the ancient faith be considered such? The viewpoint you are making is pretty modern and legalistic from everything I've ever read and been told. But of course, you may not know what you are talking about to begin with.

Don't ASSUME, go ask, then come back.

[Alveus Lacuna]

Going to the DL every week for year certainly ain't going to do much in terms of education.

If you can go to an all-English parish that does Great Vespers and Matins every week at least, there's pure gold in there. Of course, even that can get tedious after a while if you start picking up on the commonly rehashed virtues from the lives of saints. Not to disparage the liturgical texts, because they have changed my life. I'm just throwing in that if you're not in the right state of mind then even those hundreds, really thousands of different services can all start sounding the same.

I guess I make that point to say that after few years of hearing even just the divine liturgy, I feel like I'm still learning a lot bit by bit. For example, how many times do we use words like "peace" and "mercy", and what do they really mean? They still haven't made much of a dent, so there's still a lot of education left in that liturgy for me.

[jah777]

A catechumen is, as my priest has told me, is a member of the Church, just not a "full" member. So in your world view someone who lives a fully Orthodox life and is a catechumen, dies before being chrismated he is the same as a non-believer? Um, no.

A catechumen is a catechumen, and I do not think it is appropriate for a catechumen to say that he or she is an Orthodox Christian, or to refer to a catechumen as an Orthodox Christian, which implies that he or she has already been united to the Church through holy baptism.  That being said, it is true that if a person has been made a catechumen formally, yet reposes prior to his or her reception into the Church, then such a person would be given an Orthodox burial as though that person were an Orthodox Christian.  How the Church handles such a person after that person’s death is a different matter, however, than how a catechumen who is living should refer to himself prior to being united to the Church. 

One question this subject raises, though, is “who exactly is a catechumen?”  Is a catechumen someone who has been coming to the Church for a while but is not yet united to the Orthodox Church through baptism?  Or, is a catechumen a person over whom an Orthodox priest has prayed the “Prayers for the Making of a Catechumen”?  (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/shann/needs.iv.v.html) If a person has had the “Prayers for the Making of a Catechumen” prayed over him, such a person certainly is a catechumen, yet often people are referred to as such, or refer to themselves as such, who have not had these prayers read over them, nor have they been made a catechumen in any other formal way.  In many (most/all?) Orthodox churches, the “Prayers for the Making of a Catechumen” are only said at the time of that person’s reception into the Church, just moments before a person’s baptism/chrismation.  What if a person reposes before being formally made a catechumen, and has not had the “Prayers for the Making of a Catechumen” prayed over him?  This is obviously a pastoral issue which the person’s priest will have to carefully consider.  The priest may give such a person an Orthodox burial, or he may not, depending on different circumstances and the person’s perceived level of commitment and the degree of their desire to be received into the Church.  But as long a catechumens are still among the living, and as long as they are still waiting to be united to the Church through holy baptism/chrismation, it is not proper to consider catechumens Orthodox or for them to consider themselves as such. 

On a personal note, I knew I wanted to be Orthodox for about 8 yrs prior to finally being received into the Church.  During this time, I was hoping and praying that my wife would warm up to Orthodoxy so that she, I, and the children could all be received together.  For me, even then, Orthodoxy was the only faith I really agreed with and believed that I could commit to.  From that time, as the years went on, I strove to become Orthodox in heart and mind, and about 3 yrs prior to our baptism I began attending Vespers services alone more regularly (I’de go to our Episcopal church with my wife on Sundays), and kept in regular contact with an Orthodox priest.  Eventually my wife’s heart did open up (thank God!), and she could no longer bear to watch me suffer as I tried to live this double life (being Orthodox in my beliefs and convictions, and yet not part of the Church), and she finally opened up to leaving our Episcopal church and joining the Orthodox Church.  We broke off all ties with our Episcopal church and began exclusively attending the Orthodox church with the intent to eventually be united to the Church, and about seven months later we were baptized.  However, while I had been committed to becoming Orthodox for about 8 yrs or so prior to our baptism, I never considered myself an Orthodox Christian until *after* we had been baptized and chrismated.  I think this was just as it should be.   

[William]

If anyone cares, I believe in Orthodoxy and do not consider myself Orthodox as I have not been sacramentally received into the Church. I always just refer to myself as an "inquirer into Orthodoxy."

[Iconodule]

I'm afraid Orthonorm is correct on this one.  Why would this assertion "push your buttons"?  Properly speaking, one cannot be considered either "Orthodox" or "Christian" until they are united with the Orthodox Church through baptism.  On this I would like to recommend the paper "Christianity or the Church" by the New Martyr St. Hilarion (Troitsky):

http://www.holytrinity.oh.goarch.org/assets/files/Documents/CHRISTIANITY%20OR%20THE%20CHURCH.pdf

To be Orthodox is not simply to agree with the Orthodox, or to have Orthodox beliefs, but to live an Orthodox life, giving right glory to God.  The right glorification of God (Orthodoxia) implies full participation in the glorifying (deifying) Mysteries.  “Orthodox beliefs” would compel a person to join the Orthodox Church, but as long as person is a catechumen, he has not yet been united to the Church.  Similarly, if a man and woman get together once or twice a week and eventually start talking of marriage, it would be improper to refer to them as “married” prior to the actual marriage.  While living separately, not embracing the full demands and responsibilities associated with marriage, and having not participated in the mystery of holy matrimony in the Church, it would be dishonest for such a couple to claim to be married even if they had every intention of getting married in the near future.    Likewise, a catechumen may be “courting” the Church, but without consummating this courtship through holy baptism, without taking upon himself the responsibilities of Church life by participating in the other mysteries of Confession and Communion, it would be dishonest to claim to be Orthodox or a member of the Church, which is the same thing.

A catechumen is, as my priest has told me, is a member of the Church, just not a "full" member. So in your world view someone who lives a fully Orthodox life and is a catechumen, dies before being chrismated he is the same as a non-believer? Um, no.

This is poor reasoning.

What is a "fully" Orthodox life?

And my Priest would never refer to a catechumen as being Orthodox. 

I don't have the book in front of me, so I can't give quotes, but Met. Hierotheos Vlachos, in Entering the Orthodox Church, states that catechumens were considered Christians in the ancient church and so should be considered as such today. And it follows that if they can be called Christian then they can also be called Orthodox.

[Melodist]

If you have fully Orthodox beliefs, and follow all of the teachings of the Church. To say one's Orthodoxy relys' entirely on them being in "communion" is a tad absurd. Why would someone who professes the ancient faith be considered such? The viewpoint you are making is pretty modern and legalistic from everything I've ever read and been told. But of course, you may not know what you are talking about to begin with.

Don't ASSUME, go ask, then come back.

To be Orthodox means to be in communion with the Church. Orthodoxy isn't something we believe or do ourselves into, it is something that receives us into itself. Part of professing the ancient faith is to profess the necessity of the Church, of which we are a part of sacramentally.

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