Author Topic: What?  (Read 1389 times)

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Offline Volnutt

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What?
« on: August 24, 2011, 07:37:35 AM »
Or we could simply admit that Matthew had a worse understanding of Christ and Christology than most the other authors of the New Testament. Throughout his Gospel we can see attempts by Matthew to fit Christ into his Jewish world-view...not that other New Testament authors arn't guilty of this but Matthew is far worse than most.

I don't want to hijack the thread so please forgive me this one post and perhaps a response. This is an interesting statement posted above.  I actually got introduced to Orthodoxy from a deacon of the Armenian Orthodox Church who believed that the Jewish authored books in the NT were written to mostly proselytize Jews.  This guy also doubted that Christ was the expected Messiah of the OT amongst other unique ideas.   

Is this a common view amongst Armenian Orthodox or is this just one man who happens to like Marcion's outlook?
    I remember reading a comment made somewhere by - I think - a monk that there is what the outer Church believes and then there is what is whispered amongst ourselves. 
Emphasis mine.

Is such a Marcionite view big in the Armenian Church?
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Offline JR

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Re: What?
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2011, 08:23:19 AM »
Or we could simply admit that Matthew had a worse understanding of Christ and Christology than most the other authors of the New Testament. Throughout his Gospel we can see attempts by Matthew to fit Christ into his Jewish world-view...not that other New Testament authors arn't guilty of this but Matthew is far worse than most.

I don't want to hijack the thread so please forgive me this one post and perhaps a response. This is an interesting statement posted above.  I actually got introduced to Orthodoxy from a deacon of the Armenian Orthodox Church who believed that the Jewish authored books in the NT were written to mostly proselytize Jews.  This guy also doubted that Christ was the expected Messiah of the OT amongst other unique ideas.   

Is this a common view amongst Armenian Orthodox or is this just one man who happens to like Marcion's outlook?
    I remember reading a comment made somewhere by - I think - a monk that there is what the outer Church believes and then there is what is whispered amongst ourselves. 
Emphasis mine.

Is such a Marcionite view big in the Armenian Church?

Good question !
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Offline Aram

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Re: What?
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2011, 10:43:17 AM »
Short answer:  No.

Long answer:  Where did you find this deacon?

Offline Volnutt

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Re: What?
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2011, 10:45:52 AM »
Good to know  :).

I didn't find him, the guy who posted that did.
Every day we should hear at least one little song, read one good poem, see one exquisite picture, and, if possible, speak a few sensible words. -Goethe

I once heard a monk say, “The person of prayer does not need to go any further than his own heart to find the source of all violence in the world.” -Fr. Stephen Freeman

Offline Salpy

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Re: What?
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2011, 08:51:21 PM »
Or we could simply admit that Matthew had a worse understanding of Christ and Christology than most the other authors of the New Testament. Throughout his Gospel we can see attempts by Matthew to fit Christ into his Jewish world-view...not that other New Testament authors arn't guilty of this but Matthew is far worse than most.

I don't want to hijack the thread so please forgive me this one post and perhaps a response. This is an interesting statement posted above.  I actually got introduced to Orthodoxy from a deacon of the Armenian Orthodox Church who believed that the Jewish authored books in the NT were written to mostly proselytize Jews.  This guy also doubted that Christ was the expected Messiah of the OT amongst other unique ideas.   

Is this a common view amongst Armenian Orthodox or is this just one man who happens to like Marcion's outlook?
    I remember reading a comment made somewhere by - I think - a monk that there is what the outer Church believes and then there is what is whispered amongst ourselves. 
Emphasis mine.

Is such a Marcionite view big in the Armenian Church?

I've never heard anything like that.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: What?
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2011, 08:52:44 PM »
Cool.  :)
Every day we should hear at least one little song, read one good poem, see one exquisite picture, and, if possible, speak a few sensible words. -Goethe

I once heard a monk say, “The person of prayer does not need to go any further than his own heart to find the source of all violence in the world.” -Fr. Stephen Freeman

Offline Hiwot

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Re: What?
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2011, 08:58:57 PM »
Selam lekmu :)

Short answer:  No.

Long answer:  Where did you find this deacon?

 
I would also ask Where did you find this Monk?

a monk who would say its one thing what the outer church believes and another that is whispered among ourselves. i find this saying odd as it refers to the faith of the Church , in the Orthodox Church what is whispered in our homes is also proclaimed from the rooftops.  even so lets just say for argument sake that there are those individuals who claim to be followers of the orthodox faith and yet they are in reality confused gnostics like Marcion or some such heretic,  be it clergy or laity.the moment they stopped confessing the Orthodox faith they cease to be Her confessors period! is that new ? does that mean we have to question what the church herself is saying when she confesses her faith in the orthodox way.I do not think there is such a thing as a hidden belief that the church harbors so this assumption itself is a heretical assumption one that will lead to schismatic ideas very easily.it is true that there were heretics in the Church's history before and there will be  in the future, yet the Truth the Armenian Orthodox Church confesses Along with all the Orthodox faithful will remain The Same until the return of Her Bridegroom. those who claim to be under her yet confess somethingelse the Church has a name for them, been used for 2000 years now..'heretics!' May the Lord help them see the error of their ways and help them return to the One True Faith. Amen.
if I were to meet a protestant pastor preaching the intercession of saints and the communion of saints.. i would not say wow the protestant church is suddenly becoming orthodox! I will just say that this particular pastor is speaking in direct contradition of the protestant faith.

Blessed day  :)
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Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: What?
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2011, 05:15:45 AM »
I never met that deacon nor that monk. I was just quoted an old post I stumbled upon the other day and was wondering about.

I agree, the Church should have no esoteric teachings.
Every day we should hear at least one little song, read one good poem, see one exquisite picture, and, if possible, speak a few sensible words. -Goethe

I once heard a monk say, “The person of prayer does not need to go any further than his own heart to find the source of all violence in the world.” -Fr. Stephen Freeman

Offline Hiwot

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Re: What?
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2011, 11:45:10 AM »


Selam Volnutt

I never met that deacon nor that monk. I was just quoted an old post I stumbled upon the other day and was wondering about.

I agree, the Church should have no esoteric teachings.

Forgive me for the confusion .I was refering to the original poster not you.  Particularly with the implied meaning of what the monk has said as it applies to bringing into question the integrity of the Church when she confesses Her Faith, which She has done and continues to do out plainly and with great sacrifice.

I am glad you sought clarification on both points for it gives the opportunity to correct such unfounded and generalized claims as the rise.

Blessed day :)
To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: What?
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2011, 07:37:31 PM »
Oh, ok. No problem  :).

I don't think ROCORthodox posts here anymore, unfortunately.
Every day we should hear at least one little song, read one good poem, see one exquisite picture, and, if possible, speak a few sensible words. -Goethe

I once heard a monk say, “The person of prayer does not need to go any further than his own heart to find the source of all violence in the world.” -Fr. Stephen Freeman

Offline Aram

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Re: What?
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2011, 08:47:51 PM »
Maybe it's our own fault for not particularly being visible to many in the Eastern Orthodox world, but it's consistently amazing to me what some EO folk are led to think we Armenians believe. 

Offline Volnutt

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Re: What?
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2011, 08:56:21 PM »
Well, I guess the EOs get the same problem from Protestants, heh.
Every day we should hear at least one little song, read one good poem, see one exquisite picture, and, if possible, speak a few sensible words. -Goethe

I once heard a monk say, “The person of prayer does not need to go any further than his own heart to find the source of all violence in the world.” -Fr. Stephen Freeman

Offline Severian

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Re: What?
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2011, 08:07:49 AM »
Maybe it's our own fault for not particularly being visible to many in the Eastern Orthodox world, but it's consistently amazing to me what some EO folk are led to think we Armenians believe. 
Tell me about it, after all, don't you believe Jesus' humanity was absorbed by his divinity?

OK, not funny but I couldn't resist...  :angel:
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 08:09:19 AM by Severian »
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Offline Salpy

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Re: What?
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2011, 03:19:28 PM »
A tangent on Protestants and Ethiopia was split off and put here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,39392.msg633696.html#msg633696