Author Topic: What's ROCOR done lately?  (Read 4580 times)

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Offline spartacus

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What's ROCOR done lately?
« on: July 20, 2004, 06:51:15 PM »
The OCA has just returned to Russia what is arguably its holiest icon. This icon has brought hundreds of thousands of Russians into Church for veneration and worship -- including President Putin. Many OCA parishes ar ealso in touch with parishes in Russia and Poland and many other countries.

WHat has the Ruussian Orthodox Church Outside Russia done recently?

Don't mean to be snide. Just want to know. All I see from ROCOR is a lot of jurisdictional bickering. I am hoping that I am missing something.

[size=-2]edited to fix grammatical error--Anastasios[/size][/color]
« Last Edit: July 20, 2004, 08:10:58 PM by anastasios »

Offline Natasha

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Re:What's ROCOR done lately?
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2004, 07:53:55 PM »
I wouldn’t quite put it like the OCA returned the most holy icon. Many in the OCA did not want the icon to be brought back home to Russia, and it was returned solely because of the actions of the Garklavs.


Offline Anastasios

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Re:What's ROCOR done lately?
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2004, 08:11:42 PM »
Check out www.rocor.org to see what ROCOR has done lately. Working for reunion with the Moscow Patriarchate comes to mind.

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Offline Orthodoc

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Re:What's ROCOR done lately?
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2004, 08:39:39 PM »
I wouldn’t quite put it like the OCA returned the most holy icon. Many in the OCA did not want the icon to be brought back home to Russia, and it was returned solely because of the actions of the Garklavs.



The Icon was returned according to the wishes contained in the will of the priest that brought it here.  It was his adopted son who took it back according to his fathers wishes with the Blessing of the OCA and  it's hierachy and people.  It was always understood that the Icon would be returned after the fall of communism and the restoration of religion.

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Offline Ben

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Re:What's ROCOR done lately?
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2004, 09:08:32 PM »
I don't know a lot about ROCOR - but it sure seems like they've done a lot! I mean ROCOR is all over the place, it has a huge number parishes and monastaries all around the world and not to mention a Western rite that has brought many to the Orthodox Church.

I also think that ROCOR has done a good job of preserving Orthodoxy without compromise and doing their best to preserve tradition. I think rocor.org - as Anastasios posted - is a good source just to get more info about ROCOR and all that its doing.

Anyway.... I could be off here, but both ROCOR and OCA are Orthodox - and though not in communion - there doesn't need to be a tally of who's doing what - shouldn't we just look at both as Orthodox, doing their best to preserve and spread the Orthodox faith?
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Offline Arystarcus

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Re:What's ROCOR done lately?
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2004, 09:54:56 PM »
Quote
Anyway.... I could be off here, but both ROCOR and OCA are Orthodox - and though not in communion - there doesn't need to be a tally of who's doing what - shouldn't we just look at both as Orthodox, doing their best to preserve and spread the Orthodox faith?

Here, here!!

I agree with you Ben.

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Aaron

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re:What's ROCOR done lately?
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2004, 01:12:54 AM »
I don't know a lot about ROCOR - but it sure seems like they've done a lot! I mean ROCOR is all over the place, it has a huge number parishes and monastaries all around the world and not to mention a Western rite that has brought many to the Orthodox Church.


ROCOR Western rite? Er...that's news to me.

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Offline Ben

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Re:What's ROCOR done lately?
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2004, 04:17:03 AM »
Wait, ROCOR does have a Western rite? lol
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Offline Bogoliubtsy

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Re:What's ROCOR done lately?
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2004, 05:57:48 AM »
As Anastasios said, ROCOR has of late been carrying on intense dialogue with the Moscow Patriarchate in hopes of officially establishing communion between the two Churches.
As for what ROCOR has done:

-Produced saints recognized by the entire Orthodox world.

-Translated and/or printed numerous Orthodox texts in the English language.

-Spoke out about the persecution of Christians in the Soviet Union when most other Churches were quite silent about it.

-Sent tens of thousands of religious books to Russia during the Soviet period. (I was told that in one year Holy Trinity Monastery spent something like $50,000 on postage from doing this!)

-Maintainted traditional monasticism and parish life. Along with this, ROCOR's members have contributed greatly to the growth of monasticism in America.

-Spoken out against excessive and false ecumenism.

-Brought a great many people to the Orthodox faith, including one convert(Fr. Seraphim Rose) who is seen by many as a saint.

-Glorified St. John of Kronstadt, St. Xenia of Petersburg, St. John of San Francisco, the Royal Martyrs of Russia and the New Martyrs of Russia.

-And, most importantly, and summing up the above happenings- they've brought Orthodox Christians to salvation. That's the goal of the Church. Perhaps ROCOR hasn't been as "flashy" or "worldly wise" as some in the Church today, but I do believe they've kept a faithfulness to the traditions of the Church, and helped to maintain Orthodox piety and the normal ascetic Christian life when other Orthodox bodies in the West were straying from this path.


As for ROCOR and the Western Rite. Presently, I believe there is only one Western Rite institution of ROCOR- a monastery in Rhode Island.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2004, 06:07:57 AM by Bogoliubtsy »
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Offline Orthodoc

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Re:What's ROCOR done lately?
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2004, 10:18:32 AM »

As for what ROCOR has done:

<snipe>

========

Thank you for that list.  It's time we all look at each other by  our accomplishments rather than anything else.

Orthodoc (OCA)
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Offline 4Truth

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Re:What's ROCOR done lately?
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2004, 10:25:12 AM »
Cheers for Ben and Bogoliubtsy!

I'll stand with both of your posts.  The best (!!!!) Orthodox reading material that our family have collected comes from ROCOR and from Greek (both Old- and New-Calendar) sources.

4Truth
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Offline ania

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Re:What's ROCOR done lately?
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2004, 11:36:35 AM »
Yup, ROCOR's done a heck of a lot...
Oh, Bogo, you forgot St. Jonah of Hancow, St. Nicholas of Japan, & St. Inncoent of Moscow.  
Ania
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Now where were we? Oh yeah - the important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn’t have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...

Offline Etienne

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Re:What's ROCOR done lately?
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2004, 02:21:06 PM »
Housed the bones of the Saxon King and Martyr, Edward, and accorded the care and veneration the relics would not otherwise received. And fought a court case to keep those relics, too.

Provided an Orthodox cemetry here in the UK.

Assisted the clergy of a number of jurisdictions to serve services beyond the somewhat limited offering of Vespers, Mattins and the Divine Liturgy, so often found in parish churches.

......and the list rolls on and on.............
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Offline ania

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Re:What's ROCOR done lately?
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2004, 03:22:16 PM »
-Organized pilgramages to Russia, Holy Land & Serbia
-Taken up countless collections for parishes & other church organizations in Russia
Now where were we? Oh yeah - the important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn’t have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...

Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re:What's ROCOR done lately?
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2004, 06:58:07 PM »
...continues to pray for the persecuated Christians of Kosovo...

Offline TomS

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Re:What's ROCOR done lately?
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2004, 10:20:24 PM »
Wasn't this the title of a Janet Jackson song in the 80'S?

Offline Michaelj

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Re:What's ROCOR done lately?
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2004, 08:39:28 AM »
The ROCOR also took up a community of Old Rite followes in Erie, PA. They gave them a priest and church. This is commendable, but they even appointed a bishop (Daniel I think) for the Old Rite community. They have produced a prayer book in English which helps many (Old Rite and not) understand and have access to many beautiful prayers that were lost to younger generations who cannot master Old Church Slavonic.

Let's not question the ROCOR: they are an Orthodox church like all of ours. Any church thats considers itself Orthodox to me should be supported by us, not judged. We are after all, all members of the Orthodox Church (OC) No matter what abbreviations you choose to associate yourself with :)
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Offline thornygrace

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Re:What's ROCOR done lately?
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2004, 10:43:47 AM »
HM.... Could someone explain to this newby how ROCOR got out of communion with OCA (and from what I understand with other parts of EO)?
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Offline Elisha

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Re:What's ROCOR done lately?
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2004, 11:45:35 AM »
thorny,
The short version:
ROCOR stands for Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia.  Basically, they predate the OCA and never were "in communion" with the OCA (but in a way they actually are, since both groups are in communion with the Serbs and Jerusalem).  ROCOR came about as a result of the Russian Revolution, as a result of an edict (there's probably a better term out there) I think issued by St. (then Patriarch Tikhon) stating that the Russian Church may have to go underground/leave in exile to preserve itself.  A chunk of the Russian church did in fact do this and still hasn't reunited with Moscow, although there have been some productive meetings of late.  The OCA came about as the culmination of the Russian Metropolia, a mission church in America from the Moscow Patriarch, from missionaries and also from those directly from the official Russian Church (not the underground ROCOR).  There are other issues as well, but that's the gist.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Offline Orthodoc

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Re:What's ROCOR done lately?
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2004, 02:14:00 PM »
[Basically, they predate the OCA and never were "in communion" with the OCA (but in a way they actually are, since both groups are in communion with the Serbs and Jerusalem).]

I have a problem with your choice of words for they are misleading.
It might be more correct to state that ROCOR precedes the OCA in its autocephalous state.

The OCA can trace its existence as a diocese within the ROC to 1794.  Which is over a century and a half  before the revolution or the creation of ROCOR.

I don't want to get into a jurisdictional dispute regarding this because I have the deepest respect for ROCOR, its clergy, and its people.  I pray for the day that all three of us (MP, OCA, & ROCOR) can finally get together to dig a big hole to throw all the garbage in, and cover it so the stink will never come back again!

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Offline Brendan03

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Re:What's ROCOR done lately?
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2004, 02:25:24 PM »
ROCOR has taken many great steps under the new Metropolitan.  Very encouraging to see that indeed.
B

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Re:What's ROCOR done lately?
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2004, 03:41:35 PM »

I don't want to get into a jurisdictional dispute regarding this because I have the deepest respect for ROCOR, its clergy, and its people.  I pray for the day that all three of us (MP, OCA, & ROCOR) can finally get together to dig a big hole to throw all the garbage in, and cover it so the stink will never come back again!

Orthodoc  

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Offline Elisha

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Re:What's ROCOR done lately?
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2004, 07:44:55 PM »
[Basically, they predate the OCA and never were "in communion" with the OCA (but in a way they actually are, since both groups are in communion with the Serbs and Jerusalem).]

I have a problem with your choice of words for they are misleading.
It might be more correct to state that ROCOR precedes the OCA in its autocephalous state.

The OCA can trace its existence as a diocese within the ROC to 1794.  Which is over a century and a half  before the revolution or the creation of ROCOR.

I don't want to get into a jurisdictional dispute regarding this because I have the deepest respect for ROCOR, its clergy, and its people.  I pray for the day that all three of us (MP, OCA, & ROCOR) can finally get together to dig a big hole to throw all the garbage in, and cover it so the stink will never come back again!

Orthodoc  

Good clarification.  I knew I probably left something out.

Offline dllwatkins

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Re:What's ROCOR done lately?
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2004, 07:45:22 PM »
The OCA can trace its existence as a diocese within the ROC to 1794.  Which is over a century and a half  before the revolution or the creation of ROCOR.
I believe this is also misleading.  OCA parishes can trace their lineage within the Russian Church to that date, but not the existence of the OCA.