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Author Topic: Orthodox Church Calls for Reform of HR Movement  (Read 1644 times) Average Rating: 0
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JoeS
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« on: July 19, 2004, 03:21:09 PM »

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/07/19/hrchurch.shtml

Orthodox Church Slams Russian HR Movement, Calls for Reform

MosNews



The human rights movement in Russia has discredited itself and must be led by absolutely new people, the top official of the Russian Orthodox Church said on Monday.

In an interview with an orthodox radio station Radonezh, the head of external ties of the Moscow patriarchy, Metropolitan Kirill, said that the “so-called” human rights movement consisted mostly of people who “fight the Russian Orthodox Church, do not like Russia (and that is a very gentle expression), and see human rights violations anywhere in Russia but not against Russians themselves in the Baltic states, in the North Caucasus, and other places.”

He mentioned, however, several people who “try to defend the rights of the miserable ones” from the despotism of the officials in the regions of Russia. But speaking on human rights organizations with national status, the metropolitan said that “our community already has no illusions left in respect to such organizations.”

“Today it must be rebuilt, absolutely new people must appear at the head of such movements, people who love their country, their nation, are courageous, able to defend the rights and interests of their nationals anywhere they are violated, including Russia itself,” Kirill said. In this case, their work could rehabilitate the idea of defending human rights which has been “discredited for many long years ahead”.

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« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2004, 06:32:27 PM »

Human rights activist
socialist
communist

all the same these days.

Pro-life = fundamentalistic radical.
Support your nation's miliatry and they call you a "warmonger". What was black is now white and what was white is now black. WHat used to be wrong is now right and vice versa.

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Ben
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« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2004, 08:44:27 PM »

Well this is a little off topic......but socialism isn't all that bad.

I mean the basic fundamentals of socialism are very Christian, and in fact the early Christian communities were socialistic in many ways. And honestly many of Christ's teachings were socialistic.

If you really look at it, socialism is much more compatible with Christianity than Capitalism.

And I am sorry, but I don't see how one could support war or the millitary and truly follow Christ's own words on forgiveness and loving your enemy. But hey I guess I'm just some crazy communist that has gone over to the dark side!
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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2004, 11:04:50 PM »

There's a difference between a community living in a communal style and a socialist society.  In the early Church, people voluntarily lived together and shared resources.  In a socialist economy, the state forcibly takes from the more fortunate in order to provide for the less fortunate.  

Capitalism, in theory, isn't un-Christian.  Of course it should be noted that our economy isn't a pure capitalist society.  I don't think that socialism is inherently un-Christian either.  

Therefore I think it's false to suggest that one is more compatible with Christianity than the other.  

I've written here before about the need of catholics to discard their beliefs in the "cult of America."  That our economic and governmental systems are somehow superior to alternative systems and "blessed" by God.
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« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2004, 01:06:44 AM »


Quote
There's a difference between a community living in a communal style and a socialist society.
 

I agree but many of the fundamental principles are the same.

Quote
In a socialist economy, the state forcibly takes from the more fortunate in order to provide for the less fortunate.  


And thats so evil, because.....? I am sorry but I don't see whats so bad about that. Call me a commie, but that seems like the most Christian way to live - make sure everyone in your society is cared for - even if that means taking from  "more fortunate".  I've always loved the story of Robinhood.  Cheesy


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« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2004, 01:51:11 AM »

Quote
Human rights activist
socialist
communist

all the same these days.

Yup

Quote
Pro-life = fundamentalistic radical.
Support your nation's miliatry and they call you a "warmonger". What was black is now white and what was white is now black. WHat used to be wrong is now right and vice versa.

Yup



Quote
Well this is a little off topic......but socialism isn't all that bad.

LOL



Quote
I mean the basic fundamentals of socialism are very Christian, and in fact the early Christian communities were socialistic in many ways. And honestly many of Christ's teachings were socialistic.

Uhhh, ok. I see Christ's teachings more on the capitalistic side than socialist.  There isn't one quote in the scriptures that says it's a governments responsibility to provide for people & to be a caretaker. Socialism is nothing more than "civic rightousness", which God hates.  They set up government as a god unto it's own, bringing out the worst in mankind.

Also, can anyone tell me one succesful socialist government to date??? They are all in shambles economically & thier people no longer worship in churches because they are spirutually bankrupt.  

America, on the other hand is probably the most christian nation on earth at this point, also being very capitalistic. I think it goes hand in hand. I would rather allow people to follow christ's teachings of being a cheerful giver on thier own accord than having done by government force.  

Quote
And thats so evil, because.....? I am sorry but I don't see whats so bad about that. Call me a commie, but that seems like the most Christian way to live - make sure everyone in your society is cared for - even if that means taking from  "more fortunate".  I've always loved the story of Robinhood.

You should go live in Canada, Sweden, France or Brussels & come back & tell us you still love socialism. The net effect of socialism to date has been nothing but ungodliness. I'm no extreme capitalist either. Ideally, capitalism is the best system, but since we live in a world of sinners who would take advantage of the less fortunate in society, it would be impossible to have full blown capitalism. I beleive in some government controls to stop those who would abuse the system.  So, I guess I'm in the middle. I don't beleive in socialism because it contradicts christian principles, but I also don't beleive in full blown capitalism.
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« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2004, 04:31:42 AM »

Quote
Also, can anyone tell me one succesful socialist government to date???


There hasn't even been a totally socialist government, one has never existed. However in my opinion, full blown Socialism doesn't work on a National scale, however, it does work on a local level.

Quote
They are all in shambles economically & thier people no longer worship in churches because they are spirutually bankrupt.  


If you look at the world today, almost every nation is spiritually bankrupt, at least every Western nation is!

Quote
America, on the other hand is probably the most christian nation on earth at this point, also being very capitalistic.

I really don't know about that, I'll have to look into it. Perhpas percentage wise there are more Americans that claim to be Christian, but certainly our culture is not a Christian one. Our culture is a culture of death, totally baptized in sin.

Quote
I would rather allow people to follow christ's teachings of being a cheerful giver on thier own accord than having done by government force.  


Not all people want to be cheerful givers. So many these days have turned money into a god - this form of idolatry is most comon here in America. So many are so deep in greed that giving is the last thing on their mind, esp if its just for the "less fortunate".

Quote
You should go live in Canada, Sweden, France or Brussels & come back & tell us you still love socialism.


I actualy lived in Canada for little over year, a while back, and have been to Sweeden, really isn't all that bad.  Smiley

Quote
So, I guess I'm in the middle. I don't beleive in socialism because it contradicts christian principles, but I also don't beleive in full blown capitalism.


What exactly about socialism contradicts Christian principles?
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« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2004, 07:35:57 AM »

Socialism, Communism, Capitalism, Christian Democracy or the Third Way, and every other political theory is something of this secular world. None may be identified with Jesus of Nazareth's command to, "Follow me".

Our responsibility as Christians is to remember the answer Our Lord when he was asked about paying tribute to Caesar.

Yes, there is a need for Government and we must be responsible and law abiding but to identify any of these political theories with a life of Christian struggle is a grave mistake, surely?
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« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2004, 08:46:51 AM »

Human rights activist
socialist
communist

all the same these days.

Wait...what??  The fact that I want to stop human rights abuses in other countries -- many of whom are themselves communist, like PRC and N Korea -- makes me a communist?!  Where in the world did you get that?  Huh

Quote
Pro-life = fundamentalistic radical.

This is a more common association.  My stance as a pro-life Democrat has provoked much polite inquiry, as people are less likely to feel like a Democrat is going to shove Jesus and the pro-life agenda aggressively down their throats...heck, most people are surprised that pro-life Democrats are even out there, such has been the monopolization of the issue by the national representation.  Not that I think Rep.s do this all the time; I'm just talking public perception here.

Quote
Support your nation's miliatry and they call you a "warmonger".

I have a bumper sticker that says, "I support our troops; I question our policies."  The warmongering isn't so much a lambasting of those who support strong military or the boys and girls who honor us with their service (I very much do).  It's blindly thinking that we can send them wherever we want and that it's OK, that we're not betraying that great honor they've given us.
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